| i grow up in a place where school uniform is the norm and i think its cheaper than having no uniform since you will not need to buy new clothes all the time to look more presentable but with school uniforms you can just buy few of them and just wash and dry them overnight if youre on a tight budget so thoughts? aside from economic factors what do you think is better for you? |
| If the girls uniform is sexy then yes, if it's prude then no. |
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
Reply to Lucifrost
deg said:
i think its cheaper than having no uniform since you will not need to buy new clothes all the time to look more presentable
i think its cheaper than having no uniform since you will not need to buy new clothes all the time to look more presentable
You will have to buy those other clothes anyway, unless you wear your uniform outside of school?
| @Lucifrost personally im not a sociable person so i rarely go outside so i rarely buy new clothes |
| All schools have uniforms till from kindergarten till 10th grade in my country (few schools have them till 12th grade as well). The school I went to provided with 3 sets of uniforms 2 regular ones and one for PE. If they wanted to students who graduated could donate their uniforms to those who couldn't afford to pay for new ones. I feel that uniforms are better because they make the students look equal, parents don't have to worry about buying the latest clothes so their child doesn't get bullied. School is a place for learning and not a fashion parade. |
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| Real life: no school uniform Anime: school uniform  |
SerafosFeb 21, 10:21 PM
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| School uniform in -30C/-22F? Naaaaah |
～ ☆ to the people who look up the stars and wish ☆ ～ ～ ☆ to the stars who listen and the dreams that are answered ☆ ～ |
| It's one decision less each day, so I'm for it also for all the people saying what in the summer, bro do you know summer uniforms exist? You don't have to wear a 3 piece suit in when it's 30+ degrees outside |
| If only our school uniforms looked as good as an anime school uniform. Our school uniforms looked shit and the new stiff material was uncomfortable. I feel much better and relaxed with my normal daily clothes now in Uni. |
If you enjoyed the time you wasted, then its not a waste of time.  |
| Dressing for success is important. I would imagine that it helps reinforce a success-driven, professional and civil atmosphere, though I can't say I have any evidence to back that up except anecdotal as dressing formally traditionally makes me feel as though I'm meant to perform well and with integrity. I also imagine it would help to keep the students out of dress code controversies such as that incident where that kid wore a shirt that read There are only two genders and got in trouble for it, meanwhile his peers wore pride colors and other queer propaganda without getting into trouble. I believe that students should not be divided by social and political viewpoints (except within non-obligatory extracurricular activities) and instead should be united by a pursuit of academic success so I wonder if school uniforms could help to reinforce that. These are just my thoughts and frankly I kinda feel as though I'm not quite there in the head right now so please forgive me if I'm saying anything stupid. |
| I've lived in both the US and Australia and I can say school uniforms are simply better. They reduce bullying, require less money and overall are just nice. |
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Reply to wizdom224
Dressing for success is important. I would imagine that it helps reinforce a success-driven, professional and civil atmosphere, though I can't say I have any evidence to back that up except anecdotal as dressing formally traditionally makes me feel as though I'm meant to perform well and with integrity.
I also imagine it would help to keep the students out of dress code controversies such as that incident where that kid wore a shirt that read There are only two genders and got in trouble for it, meanwhile his peers wore pride colors and other queer propaganda without getting into trouble. I believe that students should not be divided by social and political viewpoints (except within non-obligatory extracurricular activities) and instead should be united by a pursuit of academic success so I wonder if school uniforms could help to reinforce that.
These are just my thoughts and frankly I kinda feel as though I'm not quite there in the head right now so please forgive me if I'm saying anything stupid.
I also imagine it would help to keep the students out of dress code controversies such as that incident where that kid wore a shirt that read There are only two genders and got in trouble for it, meanwhile his peers wore pride colors and other queer propaganda without getting into trouble. I believe that students should not be divided by social and political viewpoints (except within non-obligatory extracurricular activities) and instead should be united by a pursuit of academic success so I wonder if school uniforms could help to reinforce that.
These are just my thoughts and frankly I kinda feel as though I'm not quite there in the head right now so please forgive me if I'm saying anything stupid.
| @wizdom224 Dressing for success? I don't know man. The amount of engineers/IT professionals I've seen rock up to workplaces making 200k in their literal pyjamas and having a bowl of cereal at the office is numerous. If you're successful you're successful. |
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Reply to Zarutaku
If the girls uniform is sexy then yes, if it's prude then no.
| @Zarutaku Normally I would agree, but this is casual discussion, so these are underaged girls we are talking about. On topic, I think school uniforms should have more variation in terms of what can be worn. If people want to wear shorts to cope with the heat, they should. In fact, one such story occured where the boys wore skirts because of said heatwave. [1] The other problem can occur where skirts are to be worn in freezing weather. Having variation would be nice if school uniforms are opted for. Honestly? Kids are sadistic enough to bully others without relying on clothing. So I doubt the "bullying" argument really holds, and to me seems to dodge the actual issue of bullies acting with impunity within a school system. Does it change the degree of bullying, or to what children are bullied over? |
PeripheralVisionFeb 21, 4:58 PM
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| On one hand I like look of some but on other I hate uniformity and the negative financial aspects school uniforms brings on parents and students so I think it only should be optional. Cneq said: They reduce bullying, require less money and overall are just nice. There isnt good evidence for that. Even evidence to contrary exists Proponents of school uniforms have argued that, among other things, they promote better attendance and a stronger sense of community, which results in less bullying and fighting. To test that, the researchers used data from the Early Childhood Longitudinal Study, which followed a nationally representative sample of 6,320 students from kindergarten through the end of fifth grade. Every academic year, teachers rated each student on three dimensions: internalizing behavior problems (such as anxiety and social withdrawal), externalizing behavior problems (such as aggression or destruction of property) and social skills. Teachers also reported how often each student was absent. Overall, school uniforms had no effect on any of the three dimensions of behavior in any grade, even after taking into account a wide range of other factors that could potentially affect students' behavior. The study did find that low-income students in schools that required uniforms did have slightly better attendance, but that difference amounted to less than one day per year, Ansari said. The researchers also evaluated self-report measures from the same students when they were in fifth grade. Students reported on their sense of school belonging, such as how close they felt to teachers and classmates. They also reported their experiences of bullying and social anxiety. School uniforms were not linked to any differences in bullying or social anxiety in the children. But those who had to wear uniforms reported lower levels of school belonging than did those who attended schools with no uniform requirements. The data in this study can't explain this finding, Ansari said, but there are some plausible reasons why this might be so. "While uniforms are supposed to build a sense of community, they may have the opposite effect," he said. "Fashion is one way that students express themselves, and that may be an important part of the school experience. When students can't show their individuality, they may not feel like they belong as much." https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/12/211220120703.htm |
traedFeb 21, 5:27 PM
deg said: and i think its cheaper than having no uniform since you will not need to buy new clothes all the time to look more presentable but with school uniforms you can just buy few of them and just wash and dry them overnight if youre on a tight budget What? It's definitely not cheaper, since you still need to buy them, on top of your regular clothes. Anyway my stance on public school uniforms are the same as public schooling, and compulsory education in general: It should go the way of the dinosaur. |
 This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
Reply to traed
On one hand I like look of some but on other I hate uniformity and the negative financial aspects school uniforms brings on parents and students so I think it only should be optional.
There isnt good evidence for that. Even evidence to contrary exists
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/12/211220120703.htm
Cneq said:
They reduce bullying, require less money and overall are just nice.
They reduce bullying, require less money and overall are just nice.
There isnt good evidence for that. Even evidence to contrary exists
Proponents of school uniforms have argued that, among other things, they promote better attendance and a stronger sense of community, which results in less bullying and fighting.
To test that, the researchers used data from the Early Childhood Longitudinal Study, which followed a nationally representative sample of 6,320 students from kindergarten through the end of fifth grade.
Every academic year, teachers rated each student on three dimensions: internalizing behavior problems (such as anxiety and social withdrawal), externalizing behavior problems (such as aggression or destruction of property) and social skills.
Teachers also reported how often each student was absent.
Overall, school uniforms had no effect on any of the three dimensions of behavior in any grade, even after taking into account a wide range of other factors that could potentially affect students' behavior.
The study did find that low-income students in schools that required uniforms did have slightly better attendance, but that difference amounted to less than one day per year, Ansari said.
The researchers also evaluated self-report measures from the same students when they were in fifth grade. Students reported on their sense of school belonging, such as how close they felt to teachers and classmates. They also reported their experiences of bullying and social anxiety.
School uniforms were not linked to any differences in bullying or social anxiety in the children. But those who had to wear uniforms reported lower levels of school belonging than did those who attended schools with no uniform requirements.
The data in this study can't explain this finding, Ansari said, but there are some plausible reasons why this might be so.
"While uniforms are supposed to build a sense of community, they may have the opposite effect," he said.
"Fashion is one way that students express themselves, and that may be an important part of the school experience. When students can't show their individuality, they may not feel like they belong as much."
To test that, the researchers used data from the Early Childhood Longitudinal Study, which followed a nationally representative sample of 6,320 students from kindergarten through the end of fifth grade.
Every academic year, teachers rated each student on three dimensions: internalizing behavior problems (such as anxiety and social withdrawal), externalizing behavior problems (such as aggression or destruction of property) and social skills.
Teachers also reported how often each student was absent.
Overall, school uniforms had no effect on any of the three dimensions of behavior in any grade, even after taking into account a wide range of other factors that could potentially affect students' behavior.
The study did find that low-income students in schools that required uniforms did have slightly better attendance, but that difference amounted to less than one day per year, Ansari said.
The researchers also evaluated self-report measures from the same students when they were in fifth grade. Students reported on their sense of school belonging, such as how close they felt to teachers and classmates. They also reported their experiences of bullying and social anxiety.
School uniforms were not linked to any differences in bullying or social anxiety in the children. But those who had to wear uniforms reported lower levels of school belonging than did those who attended schools with no uniform requirements.
The data in this study can't explain this finding, Ansari said, but there are some plausible reasons why this might be so.
"While uniforms are supposed to build a sense of community, they may have the opposite effect," he said.
"Fashion is one way that students express themselves, and that may be an important part of the school experience. When students can't show their individuality, they may not feel like they belong as much."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/12/211220120703.htm
| @traed You can find a study on just about anything, anyone can dig into reams of data and prove anything in the world they want by manipulating data. Everything I read there, and I checked the link to see if there was more, sounds like a load of crap. You can sometimes spot the warning signs these "studies" are biased by the language they use, such as: "Overall, school uniforms had no effect... even after taking into account a wide range of other factors that could potentially affect student's behavior" Wait a minute- where is this information and why is it not listed? What was the control? How many students wore uniforms and how many didn't? What factors?etc0 Notice the up front proclamation; followed by vague wording: exactly what "wide range of other factors" what exactly are those? It doesn't say. Even if it did, the word "could" and "potentially" are deliberately vague and misleading, because they are subjective. Who determined what 'potentially' affected the student's behavior and whether or not they were universally accepted? I am not asking you to give me examples or answers- I am pointing out that the study is responsible to offer proof- and it uses inexact language, which is unscientific. Then there's another warning of bias at the end with the statement "Fashion is one way that students express themselves... When students can't show their individuality, they may not feel like they belong as much" ... Haha.. "may" not "feel"... that's 'science'? That statement indicates bias on the part of the researchers, and indicates that they were seeking to find evidence of something they already believed. It is an assumption based upon preexisting beliefs, phrased as self-evident fact. This study is garbage, throw it out. -->The responses of people in the forum who claim they had positive experiences with uniforms is actually better data points and more telling than some suspect study done by a left wing educational political institution. |
| I grew up with school uniforms and they dsuck. I had no sense of style after getting out of that school |
SuperAdventure said: Wait a minute- where is this information and why is it not listed? What was the control? How many students wore uniforms and how many didn't? What factors?etc0 It is an article about the study not the study itself and even that you didnt read so I doubt you will read an academic paper. SuperAdventure said: Then there's another warning of bias at the end with the statement "Fashion is one way that students express themselves... When students can't show their individuality, they may not feel like they belong as much" ... Haha.. "may" not "feel"... that's 'science'? Social science reports on what people say and feel. SuperAdventure said: ->The responses of people in the forum who claim they had positive experiences with uniforms is actually better data points and more telling than some suspect study done by a left wing educational political institution. No it isnt because they have no point of comparison in most cases having only been in one or the other for the grade level they were in at any given point. Plus you also have them saying negative things about it too. |
Reply to traed
SuperAdventure said:
Wait a minute- where is this information and why is it not listed? What was the control? How many students wore uniforms and how many didn't? What factors?etc0
Wait a minute- where is this information and why is it not listed? What was the control? How many students wore uniforms and how many didn't? What factors?etc0
It is an article about the study not the study itself and even that you didnt read so I doubt you will read an academic paper.
SuperAdventure said:
Then there's another warning of bias at the end with the statement "Fashion is one way that students express themselves... When students can't show their individuality, they may not feel like they belong as much" ... Haha.. "may" not "feel"... that's 'science'?
Then there's another warning of bias at the end with the statement "Fashion is one way that students express themselves... When students can't show their individuality, they may not feel like they belong as much" ... Haha.. "may" not "feel"... that's 'science'?
Social science reports on what people say and feel.
SuperAdventure said:
->The responses of people in the forum who claim they had positive experiences with uniforms is actually better data points and more telling than some suspect study done by a left wing educational political institution.
->The responses of people in the forum who claim they had positive experiences with uniforms is actually better data points and more telling than some suspect study done by a left wing educational political institution.
No it isnt because they have no point of comparison in most cases having only been in one or the other for the grade level they were in at any given point. Plus you also have them saying negative things about it too.
traed said: Social science reports on what people say and feel. I wouldn't say that. I'd say it's about examining complex relationships between individuals. I'd say it's the media that is more concerned with what people feel, since they want to publish a narrative, and will disregard findings that contradict it. There's numerous reasons why school uniforms are bad that don't even need this kind of analysis. The very notion that it is imposed on you, by threat of law (compulsory attendance) and have to pay for it yourself, while you are already having to pay taxes for the institution is a good enough reason to discredit them. The only reason why it is not questioned often is simply due to the tyranny of the status quo. |
DreamWindowFeb 21, 8:45 PM
This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
| School uniform that's cozy and comfy to wear, so long as it's supsidized by the state and not from the pockets of the parents (mandatory education should have free books and uniforms). Have no real appeal for the preppy suit uniforms. Keep it simple and functional. Plus would have dealt with a lot less classicist bullIng from other kids cause everyone would wear the same thing. Today's kids are too obsessed about pointless things like wearing branded stuff, even if the quality and appearance of said clothing is trash. |
TechnopunkFeb 21, 9:01 PM
 "Don't let your memes be dreams."- Ancient Japanese proverb, probably |
| More to add. I've observed this happen so many times teachers just making a big deal out of how a student is dressed. Uniforms don't solve this since there is different ways to wear a uniform and there is still makeup and hair dying and all sorts of bullshit teachers will make a fuss over interrupting class and having that student leave the class and force them to change or something so they dont even get to be part of the class. "Dress codes often have girl-centric restrictions such as no bare shoulders, no spaghetti straps, no sandals, no tights/leggings and arbitrary skirt lengths. A report by the National Women’s Law Center last year found black girls were disproportionately cited for dress problems. National stories report on girls being disciplined for having tight clothing, brightly colored hair, no bra and showing too much collarbone or arm. Dress codes are supposed to encourage cohesion by avoiding distractions. But, the adults are creating distractions by nit-picking violations.' https://nwlc.org/nwlc-in-the-press/public-schools-should-not-require-uniforms/ DreamWindow said: I wouldn't say that. I'd say it's about examining complex relationships between individuals. I'd say it's the media that is more concerned with what people feel, since they want to publish a narrative, and will disregard findings that contradict it. I was giving the simplest explanation since often what is examined is self reported when it comes to anything revolving around psychology which is the specific social science field in question. DreamWindow said: There's numerous reasons why school uniforms are bad that don't even need this kind of analysis. The very notion that it is imposed on you, and have to pay for it yourself, while you are already having to pay taxes for the institution is a good enough reason to discredit them. The only reason why it is not questioned often is simply due to the tyranny of the status quo. I'd say even school dress codes can be excessive in many cases. |
| Anime made me like school uniforms so yes they're automatically better. |
| When a pancake lover does something: "Outrageous vicious crime" When a waffle lover does something: "That means it is not illegal" Quotes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld_HIM667Do&t=2822s |
Reply to traed
More to add. I've observed this happen so many times teachers just making a big deal out of how a student is dressed. Uniforms don't solve this since there is different ways to wear a uniform and there is still makeup and hair dying and all sorts of bullshit teachers will make a fuss over interrupting class and having that student leave the class and force them to change or something so they dont even get to be part of the class.
"Dress codes often have girl-centric restrictions such as no bare shoulders, no spaghetti straps, no sandals, no tights/leggings and arbitrary skirt lengths. A report by the National Women’s Law Center last year found black girls were disproportionately cited for dress problems.
National stories report on girls being disciplined for having tight clothing, brightly colored hair, no bra and showing too much collarbone or arm.
Dress codes are supposed to encourage cohesion by avoiding distractions. But, the adults are creating distractions by nit-picking violations.'
https://nwlc.org/nwlc-in-the-press/public-schools-should-not-require-uniforms/
I was giving the simplest explanation since often what is examined is self reported when it comes to anything revolving around psychology which is the specific social science field in question.
I'd say even school dress codes can be excessive in many cases.
"Dress codes often have girl-centric restrictions such as no bare shoulders, no spaghetti straps, no sandals, no tights/leggings and arbitrary skirt lengths. A report by the National Women’s Law Center last year found black girls were disproportionately cited for dress problems.
National stories report on girls being disciplined for having tight clothing, brightly colored hair, no bra and showing too much collarbone or arm.
Dress codes are supposed to encourage cohesion by avoiding distractions. But, the adults are creating distractions by nit-picking violations.'
https://nwlc.org/nwlc-in-the-press/public-schools-should-not-require-uniforms/
DreamWindow said:
I wouldn't say that. I'd say it's about examining complex relationships between individuals. I'd say it's the media that is more concerned with what people feel, since they want to publish a narrative, and will disregard findings that contradict it.
I wouldn't say that. I'd say it's about examining complex relationships between individuals. I'd say it's the media that is more concerned with what people feel, since they want to publish a narrative, and will disregard findings that contradict it.
I was giving the simplest explanation since often what is examined is self reported when it comes to anything revolving around psychology which is the specific social science field in question.
DreamWindow said:
There's numerous reasons why school uniforms are bad that don't even need this kind of analysis. The very notion that it is imposed on you, and have to pay for it yourself, while you are already having to pay taxes for the institution is a good enough reason to discredit them. The only reason why it is not questioned often is simply due to the tyranny of the status quo.
There's numerous reasons why school uniforms are bad that don't even need this kind of analysis. The very notion that it is imposed on you, and have to pay for it yourself, while you are already having to pay taxes for the institution is a good enough reason to discredit them. The only reason why it is not questioned often is simply due to the tyranny of the status quo.
I'd say even school dress codes can be excessive in many cases.
| @traed It's not particularly a girl's issue. But generally, girls are more likely to be more exotic with their fashion choices than boys are, generally speaking. Depending on the types of clothing, there are some ways that should be considered improper -the bare minimum should be to be presentable. While I don't think there needs to be no dress code whatsoever, I can guarantee that it would be at least more manageable if the parents had any kind of real impact on the school system that they are paying for. Right now, we have unions and bureaucrats who believe that they can make decisions better than you can. I think that's the real underlying issue, and dress codes are merely a symptom of it. |
This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
DreamWindow said: There's numerous reasons why school uniforms are bad that don't even need this kind of analysis. The very notion that it is imposed on you, by threat of law (compulsory attendance) and have to pay for it yourself, while you are already having to pay taxes for the institution is a good enough reason to discredit them. The only reason why it is not questioned often is simply due to the tyranny of the status quo. DreamWindow said: Anyway my stance on public school uniforms are the same as public schooling, and compulsory education in general: It should go the way of the dinosaur. I agree with this. Uniforms can certainly look nice, especially Japanese ones! Very cool. But they're part of the same old thing. I also find the argument that they reduce bullying to be a pretty strange one, as a bully will bully others regardless of such things. What someone wears is completely irrelevant; if it's not someone's style of clothing, it'll be something else. |
Reply to Cneq
@wizdom224 Dressing for success? I don't know man.
The amount of engineers/IT professionals I've seen rock up to workplaces making 200k in their literal pyjamas and having a bowl of cereal at the office is numerous.
If you're successful you're successful.
The amount of engineers/IT professionals I've seen rock up to workplaces making 200k in their literal pyjamas and having a bowl of cereal at the office is numerous.
If you're successful you're successful.
| @Cneq I guess the goal is less of success as it is about ensuring people try to act their age and not like overgrown toddlers. Again, it's just from my experience that it works but I guess it's person to person. Maybe I'm just looking for reasons to support my preconceived values or something. I could also say I just want people to dress nicer because I think people look good when they dress formally which is arguably the most sound reasoning I can make as I am now. |
| I hated them and refuse to even wear a shirt today. Plus the "yoof" of today make them look ridiculous. I would be ok with no branded clothes except for trainers. Just more expensive with a lot more washing because I got home an immediately changed so I wore 2 sets of clothes a day. |
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| For most of my schools and universities there are no uniforms, only in my primary school there was which were a meh and they were the same no matter of gender, as they were containing a t-shirt, hoodie, pants, they tried to force to wear them by giving additional "behavioural points" but usually we would have a t-shirt somewhere in a bag and usually wear our own clothing, sometimes just a hoodie etc. Never been a fan of uniforms, I get it that it tries to avoid the tension and pressure of someone having rich clothes vs used/cheap clothes but if someone would like to bully others based on wealth they'll always find a way for it. |
Kvistis said: I agree with this. Uniforms can certainly look nice, especially Japanese ones! Very cool. But they're part of the same old thing. I also find the argument that they reduce bullying to be a pretty strange one, as a bully will bully others regardless of such things. What someone wears is completely irrelevant; if it's not someone's style of clothing, it'll be something else. Yes they generally bully others not because of anything in particular. It usually has to do with them just venting on someone. DreamWindow said: It's not particularly a girl's issue. But generally, girls are more likely to be more exotic with their fashion choices than boys are, generally speaking. Depending on the types of clothing, there are some ways that should be considered improper -the bare minimum should be to be presentable. While I don't think there needs to be no dress code whatsoever, I can guarantee that it would be at least more manageable if the parents had any kind of real impact on the school system that they are paying for. Right now, we have unions and bureaucrats who believe that they can make decisions better than you can. I think that's the real underlying issue, and dress codes are merely a symptom of it. Yes I have seen guys get in trouble for what they wore too but it happens way more disruptively with girls from what I've seen. Guys it in most cases is just telling them to pull up their pants and wear a belt not kicking them out of the class or sending them home to change. Not that it being disproportionate is a requirement for it to matter. I also once saw a security guard harass some Mexican girl for wearing an Adidas jacket with the Virgin Mary on the back because she claimed it was gang related and she did similar yelling at a black guy for how he was wearing his sweater over his shoulder and had a t shirt underneath so not like he was undressed again baseless claims of gang affiliation. I mean yeah these things kind of relate to gang stuff but they work their way into normal fashion quickly. The parents do have a say though just sometimes the wrong ones get involved. That is what school boards are consisting of anyone can get in them. Though i havent looked up the details on how that works exactly and likely depends on region. |
traedFeb 22, 12:45 AM
PeripheralVision said: Normally I would agree, but this is casual discussion, so these are underaged girls we are talking about. It's just a possible measure to make real girls more competitive, an increasing rate of schoolboys prefer imaginary girls and many of them will stick with it when they grow older, as can be easily seen in this forum. |
ZarutakuFeb 22, 1:54 AM
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
| Uniforms are the norm in my Country, always does look odd seeing Schools in different Countries without them. I think it cuts down on bullying a little (but not completely, as I was still bullied regardless), as well as to prepare kids for wearing suits and more formal wear for later jobs (taking care of their uniform etc), also think it helps spotting truant kids. Some Schools definitely do go overboard with their branding and are very strict though. I went to private School (for a short while lol) and whilst we did have things like blazers and caps with the Schools's badge on, I honestly can't remember wearing them often (or seeing anyone else wear them). Just so long as you had something with the Schools's colours on you'd be fine. We did have some slight uniform inspections, but usually they'd just tell you off if looked like you'd been dragged through a hedge or something, really was pretty chill for the most part. But our basic uniforms were just a regular set you can find in any superstore, wasn't very exciting lol, but I felt proud representing my School. |
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Reply to traed
Kvistis said:
I agree with this. Uniforms can certainly look nice, especially Japanese ones! Very cool. But they're part of the same old thing. I also find the argument that they reduce bullying to be a pretty strange one, as a bully will bully others regardless of such things. What someone wears is completely irrelevant; if it's not someone's style of clothing, it'll be something else.
I agree with this. Uniforms can certainly look nice, especially Japanese ones! Very cool. But they're part of the same old thing. I also find the argument that they reduce bullying to be a pretty strange one, as a bully will bully others regardless of such things. What someone wears is completely irrelevant; if it's not someone's style of clothing, it'll be something else.
Yes they generally bully others not because of anything in particular. It usually has to do with them just venting on someone.
DreamWindow said:
It's not particularly a girl's issue. But generally, girls are more likely to be more exotic with their fashion choices than boys are, generally speaking. Depending on the types of clothing, there are some ways that should be considered improper -the bare minimum should be to be presentable. While I don't think there needs to be no dress code whatsoever, I can guarantee that it would be at least more manageable if the parents had any kind of real impact on the school system that they are paying for. Right now, we have unions and bureaucrats who believe that they can make decisions better than you can. I think that's the real underlying issue, and dress codes are merely a symptom of it.
It's not particularly a girl's issue. But generally, girls are more likely to be more exotic with their fashion choices than boys are, generally speaking. Depending on the types of clothing, there are some ways that should be considered improper -the bare minimum should be to be presentable. While I don't think there needs to be no dress code whatsoever, I can guarantee that it would be at least more manageable if the parents had any kind of real impact on the school system that they are paying for. Right now, we have unions and bureaucrats who believe that they can make decisions better than you can. I think that's the real underlying issue, and dress codes are merely a symptom of it.
Yes I have seen guys get in trouble for what they wore too but it happens way more disruptively with girls from what I've seen. Guys it in most cases is just telling them to pull up their pants and wear a belt not kicking them out of the class or sending them home to change. Not that it being disproportionate is a requirement for it to matter. I also once saw a security guard harass some Mexican girl for wearing an Adidas jacket with the Virgin Mary on the back because she claimed it was gang related and she did similar yelling at a black guy for how he was wearing his sweater over his shoulder and had a t shirt underneath so not like he was undressed again baseless claims of gang affiliation. I mean yeah these things kind of relate to gang stuff but they work their way into normal fashion quickly.
The parents do have a say though just sometimes the wrong ones get involved. That is what school boards are consisting of anyone can get in them. Though i havent looked up the details on how that works exactly and likely depends on region.
| @traed Much of this is anecdotal, so I can't really comment, but I feel if you are going around claiming that you have gang memorabilia, you're kind of asking for trouble. Perhaps there's some context I'm missing, though. Parents don't even get a say in what school their children go to, most of the time, let alone have any influence on what the school board does. Where I live, it's illegal to even send your child to a school that is outside of whatever area is arbitrarily chosen by the school district, and this is the case in most public school systems as far as I understand it. The best thing that could happen, is if parents were left entirely up to themselves exactly what kind of education their children should get. If there is to be more autonomy for parents and children, there needs to be more choices for what kind of schooling and education are available. Full stop. |
DreamWindowFeb 22, 6:38 AM
This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
Reply to traed
SuperAdventure said:
Wait a minute- where is this information and why is it not listed? What was the control? How many students wore uniforms and how many didn't? What factors?etc0
Wait a minute- where is this information and why is it not listed? What was the control? How many students wore uniforms and how many didn't? What factors?etc0
It is an article about the study not the study itself and even that you didnt read so I doubt you will read an academic paper.
SuperAdventure said:
Then there's another warning of bias at the end with the statement "Fashion is one way that students express themselves... When students can't show their individuality, they may not feel like they belong as much" ... Haha.. "may" not "feel"... that's 'science'?
Then there's another warning of bias at the end with the statement "Fashion is one way that students express themselves... When students can't show their individuality, they may not feel like they belong as much" ... Haha.. "may" not "feel"... that's 'science'?
Social science reports on what people say and feel.
SuperAdventure said:
->The responses of people in the forum who claim they had positive experiences with uniforms is actually better data points and more telling than some suspect study done by a left wing educational political institution.
->The responses of people in the forum who claim they had positive experiences with uniforms is actually better data points and more telling than some suspect study done by a left wing educational political institution.
No it isnt because they have no point of comparison in most cases having only been in one or the other for the grade level they were in at any given point. Plus you also have them saying negative things about it too.
traed said: @traed It is an article about the study not the study itself and even that you didnt read so I doubt you will read an academic paper. Show a link to the academic paper not the article then. Several of the things I pointed out are quotations lifted from the study, so I did respond to the correct thing. I respond what you shared. If that's not good enough, share the right thing. traed said: Social science reports on what people say and feel. Not. Social sciences are actually about studying data and analysis of groups of people. Think and feel are not measurable. traed said: isnt because they have no point of comparison in most cases having only been in one or the other for the grade level they were in at any given point But this is true of all people who were claimed to be measured in that study. So why would you trust the responses of 6,000 people you don't know, but not a handful of people you're talking to? I merely said that responses here are data points, not that it proved anything. Just that it's more trustworthy than a biased study. |
DreamWindow said: Much of this is anecdotal, so I can't really comment, but I feel if you are going around claiming that you have gang memorabilia, you're kind of asking for trouble. Perhaps there's some context I'm missing, though. Parents don't even get a say in what school their children go to, most of the time, let alone have any influence on what the school board does. Where I live, it's illegal to even send your child to a school that is outside of whatever area is arbitrarily chosen by the school district, and this is the case in most public school systems as far as I understand it. The best thing that could happen, is if parents were left entirely up to themselves exactly what kind of education their children should get. If there is to be more autonomy for parents and children, there needs to be more choices for what kind of schooling and education are available. Full stop. No, you misunderstand. The security guard was a woman and she was the one making these claims not the students. She would just randomly approaches students in the hallways and harass them for how they were dressed even though they weren't explicitly breaking any dress code rules. Well there is obvious reason for that. You can't just have disproportionately their offspring going to one school over capacity while another is half capacity. There probably should be some sort of system set up to make transfer easier though while still not making a school go over capacity. SuperAdventure said: Show a link to the academic paper not the article then. Several of the things I pointed out are quotations lifted from the study, so I did respond to the correct thing. I respond what you shared. If that's not good enough, share the right thing. The paper was linked at the bottom of the article. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0885200621001162 That I think is referencing this study (doesnt seem to mention uniforms though so they must have looked up which schools had uniforms) http://www.asasrms.org/Proceedings/y2011/Files/301090_66141.pdf SuperAdventure said: Not. Social sciences are actually about studying data and analysis of groups of people. Think and feel are not measurable. But you can and they do. It's not an objective measure of the states in themselves it's data on self measures. SuperAdventure said: But this is true of all people who were claimed to be measured in that study. So why would you trust the responses of 6,000 people you don't know, but not a handful of people you're talking to? I merely said that responses here are data points, not that it proved anything. Just that it's more trustworthy than a biased study. A small handful of MAL users responding to this thread don't represent the general public, that's called selection bias. |
Reply to traed
DreamWindow said:
Much of this is anecdotal, so I can't really comment, but I feel if you are going around claiming that you have gang memorabilia, you're kind of asking for trouble. Perhaps there's some context I'm missing, though.
Parents don't even get a say in what school their children go to, most of the time, let alone have any influence on what the school board does. Where I live, it's illegal to even send your child to a school that is outside of whatever area is arbitrarily chosen by the school district, and this is the case in most public school systems as far as I understand it. The best thing that could happen, is if parents were left entirely up to themselves exactly what kind of education their children should get. If there is to be more autonomy for parents and children, there needs to be more choices for what kind of schooling and education are available. Full stop.
Much of this is anecdotal, so I can't really comment, but I feel if you are going around claiming that you have gang memorabilia, you're kind of asking for trouble. Perhaps there's some context I'm missing, though.
Parents don't even get a say in what school their children go to, most of the time, let alone have any influence on what the school board does. Where I live, it's illegal to even send your child to a school that is outside of whatever area is arbitrarily chosen by the school district, and this is the case in most public school systems as far as I understand it. The best thing that could happen, is if parents were left entirely up to themselves exactly what kind of education their children should get. If there is to be more autonomy for parents and children, there needs to be more choices for what kind of schooling and education are available. Full stop.
No, you misunderstand. The security guard was a woman and she was the one making these claims not the students. She would just randomly approaches students in the hallways and harass them for how they were dressed even though they weren't explicitly breaking any dress code rules.
Well there is obvious reason for that. You can't just have disproportionately their offspring going to one school over capacity while another is half capacity. There probably should be some sort of system set up to make transfer easier though while still not making a school go over capacity.
SuperAdventure said:
Show a link to the academic paper not the article then. Several of the things I pointed out are quotations lifted from the study, so I did respond to the correct thing. I respond what you shared. If that's not good enough, share the right thing.
Show a link to the academic paper not the article then. Several of the things I pointed out are quotations lifted from the study, so I did respond to the correct thing. I respond what you shared. If that's not good enough, share the right thing.
The paper was linked at the bottom of the article.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0885200621001162
That I think is referencing this study (doesnt seem to mention uniforms though so they must have looked up which schools had uniforms)
http://www.asasrms.org/Proceedings/y2011/Files/301090_66141.pdf
SuperAdventure said:
Not. Social sciences are actually about studying data and analysis of groups of people. Think and feel are not measurable.
Not. Social sciences are actually about studying data and analysis of groups of people. Think and feel are not measurable.
But you can and they do. It's not an objective measure of the states in themselves it's data on self measures.
SuperAdventure said:
But this is true of all people who were claimed to be measured in that study. So why would you trust the responses of 6,000 people you don't know, but not a handful of people you're talking to? I merely said that responses here are data points, not that it proved anything. Just that it's more trustworthy than a biased study.
But this is true of all people who were claimed to be measured in that study. So why would you trust the responses of 6,000 people you don't know, but not a handful of people you're talking to? I merely said that responses here are data points, not that it proved anything. Just that it's more trustworthy than a biased study.
A small handful of MAL users responding to this thread don't represent the general public, that's called selection bias.
traed said: No, you misunderstand. The security guard was a woman and she was the one making these claims not the students. She would just randomly approaches students in the hallways and harass them for how they were dressed even though they weren't explicitly breaking any dress code rules. Well there is obvious reason for that. You can't just have disproportionately their offspring going to one school over capacity while another is half capacity. There probably should be some sort of system set up to make transfer easier though while still not making a school go over capacity. Well, if that case then it probably is overreach, sure. Who says that these laws actually address the problems of sorting? Often times they mismatch students into schools that don't work for them. If parents are capable of making the best possible decision for their child, then they will seek to find the best possible schools for them. This would mean that other schools would need to be able to improve their curriculum to get people to actually want to go to their school, rather than just arbitrarily forcing students to go to designated schools dictated by the district. These laws do not address scarcity issues, the only thing that they do is reinforce the school board and planning committees, over the needs and wants of the parents and students, who just want to get the best education possible. There's no reason why free choice should be limited simply due to the whims of the school district. It can be sorted out naturally. |
DreamWindowFeb 22, 4:57 PM
This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
Reply to Zarutaku
PeripheralVision said:
Normally I would agree, but this is casual discussion, so these are underaged girls we are talking about.
Normally I would agree, but this is casual discussion, so these are underaged girls we are talking about.
It's just a possible measure to make real girls more competitive, an increasing rate of schoolboys prefer imaginary girls and many of them will stick with it when they grow older, as can be easily seen in this forum.
Zarutaku said: It's just a possible measure to make real girls more competitive, an increasing rate of schoolboys prefer imaginary girls and many of them will stick with it when they grow older, as can be easily seen in this forum. Just a hypothesis, but I think the reason why school uniforms are so fetishized, especially in anime, is because of the forbidden fruit of underaged girls. Damn, I feel gross saying that, but it has a kernel of truth to it I imagine. Most people who have this thing for school uniforms are often adult men rather than their teenage peers. |
| |
DreamWindow said: Well, if that case then it probably is overreach, sure. Who says that these laws actually address the problems of sorting? Often times they mismatch students into schools that don't work for them. If parents are capable of making the best possible decision for their child, then they will seek to find the best possible schools for them. This would mean that other schools would need to be able to improve their curriculum to get people to actually want to go to their school, rather than just arbitrarily forcing students to go to designated schools dictated by the district. These laws do not address scarcity issues, the only thing that they do is reinforce the school board and planning committees, over the needs and wants of the parents and students, who just want to get the best education possible. There's no reason why free choice should be limited simply due to the whims of the school district. It can be sorted out naturally. It isn't always a law just a general rule. Exceptions do get made sometimes on technicalities. Japan probably had the right idea in making schools all the same layout since I think the layout of a school has an influence on the teachers and students. PeripheralVision said: Just a hypothesis, but I think the reason why school uniforms are so fetishized, especially in anime, is because of the forbidden fruit of underaged girls. Damn, I feel gross saying that, but it has a kernel of truth to it I imagine. Most people who have this thing for school uniforms are often adult men rather than their teenage peers. Nah it's teens too just you see it more with those who it's out of ordinary for them. But teenager boys fetishize cheerleader uniforms and cheerleaders / pom squad since that's not a common thing for them. There are girls fetishize wearing school uniforms too though which falls either under a fetish for wearing the clothes themselves or part of a kind of roleplay. Age or youthfulness association is only one factor. For some it's just wired in from experiences they had in school so they associate the clothes with those experiences but those experiences also dont have to come from school just porn or anime can also create this fetish, the brain just wires together different things and says "that's hot". It also crosses over into a fetish for discipline. In places like the US school uniforms are not common and only are associated with Catholic schools which are known for their physical discipline like hitting students with rulers or how schools in past known for spanking or paddling students so it becomes part of an S&M thing. Fetishes are actually very normal part of human sexuality. |
Reply to traed
DreamWindow said:
Well, if that case then it probably is overreach, sure.
Who says that these laws actually address the problems of sorting? Often times they mismatch students into schools that don't work for them. If parents are capable of making the best possible decision for their child, then they will seek to find the best possible schools for them. This would mean that other schools would need to be able to improve their curriculum to get people to actually want to go to their school, rather than just arbitrarily forcing students to go to designated schools dictated by the district. These laws do not address scarcity issues, the only thing that they do is reinforce the school board and planning committees, over the needs and wants of the parents and students, who just want to get the best education possible. There's no reason why free choice should be limited simply due to the whims of the school district. It can be sorted out naturally.
Well, if that case then it probably is overreach, sure.
Who says that these laws actually address the problems of sorting? Often times they mismatch students into schools that don't work for them. If parents are capable of making the best possible decision for their child, then they will seek to find the best possible schools for them. This would mean that other schools would need to be able to improve their curriculum to get people to actually want to go to their school, rather than just arbitrarily forcing students to go to designated schools dictated by the district. These laws do not address scarcity issues, the only thing that they do is reinforce the school board and planning committees, over the needs and wants of the parents and students, who just want to get the best education possible. There's no reason why free choice should be limited simply due to the whims of the school district. It can be sorted out naturally.
It isn't always a law just a general rule. Exceptions do get made sometimes on technicalities. Japan probably had the right idea in making schools all the same layout since I think the layout of a school has an influence on the teachers and students.
PeripheralVision said:
Just a hypothesis, but I think the reason why school uniforms are so fetishized, especially in anime, is because of the forbidden fruit of underaged girls. Damn, I feel gross saying that, but it has a kernel of truth to it I imagine. Most people who have this thing for school uniforms are often adult men rather than their teenage peers.
Just a hypothesis, but I think the reason why school uniforms are so fetishized, especially in anime, is because of the forbidden fruit of underaged girls. Damn, I feel gross saying that, but it has a kernel of truth to it I imagine. Most people who have this thing for school uniforms are often adult men rather than their teenage peers.
Nah it's teens too just you see it more with those who it's out of ordinary for them. But teenager boys fetishize cheerleader uniforms and cheerleaders / pom squad since that's not a common thing for them.
There are girls fetishize wearing school uniforms too though which falls either under a fetish for wearing the clothes themselves or part of a kind of roleplay. Age or youthfulness association is only one factor. For some it's just wired in from experiences they had in school so they associate the clothes with those experiences but those experiences also dont have to come from school just porn or anime can also create this fetish, the brain just wires together different things and says "that's hot". It also crosses over into a fetish for discipline. In places like the US school uniforms are not common and only are associated with Catholic schools which are known for their physical discipline like hitting students with rulers or how schools in past known for spanking or paddling students so it becomes part of an S&M thing. Fetishes are actually very normal part of human sexuality.
traed said: It isn't always a law just a general rule. Exceptions do get made sometimes on technicalities. Japan probably had the right idea in making schools all the same layout since I think the layout of a school has an influence on the teachers and students. Laws, rules, programs, bureaus, it all falls under the same umbrella. My point is you can't have free choice, when there is a plethora of factors limiting said choices, such as restrictions based on zoning, or compulsory attendance laws. If those weren't there that would already solve the sorting problem instantly, since those who don't want to be there can simply go somewhere else. The exact logistics of the schools in question can vary. I find it interesting that you praise the Japanese system, despite it getting a reputation for being very strict. |
This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
| Uniforms in schools work so that people are not distracted by what others are wearing. Also, since it is the same, you can get several pieces of it and not have to buy clothes as you need them. I think it is sadly good for the reason it was implemented; because if we were not so judgmental or greedy, there would be no need. Personally, as long as the uniform isn't too uncomfortable, I'm fine with it. |
 
|
| I think the poll wasnt set up right. It is phrased in a way open to interpretation for the many who dont read the OP. They think anime when they hear school uniforms. Also it would have been better to divide poll answers by gender of the users. I guarantee the majority saying yes are mostly guys who dont have to be the ones wearing skirts in winter or tops that might not fit their chests and maybe even uncomfortable shoes. Would anyone be even saying yes if we went back to everyone wearing tunics? DreamWindow said: Laws, rules, programs, bureaus, it all falls under the same umbrella. My point is you can't have free choice, when there is a plethora of factors limiting said choices, such as restrictions based on zoning, or compulsory attendance laws. If those weren't there that would already solve the sorting problem instantly, since those who don't want to be there can simply go somewhere else. The exact logistics of the schools in question can vary. I find it interesting that you praise the Japanese system, despite it getting a reputation for being very strict. Not their whole system just one single thing and it likely is not unique to them. There was a period of time during Japanese reconstruction they made a bunch of schools all using the same blueprints which is why in anime you often see what seems to be the same school as if scenes were just lazily reused, when they actually do look same in many Japanese schools apparently. If you remove the factor of different architecture it helps reduce too many students going to certain schools and not enough in others for them to stay open where they need to exist. Now as to what is the ideal design is difficult to say especially when there is different scenes around schools so there may be needed more than one but it could be possible to design one for universal use while keeping in mind diversity of student and teacher needs. One advantage is students not getting lost as easily if in a new school. |
traedFeb 22, 9:47 PM
| I would say no school uniform as i have never had to wear one but if were talking about anime then i would say yes. |
 |
Reply to traed
I think the poll wasnt set up right. It is phrased in a way open to interpretation for the many who dont read the OP. They think anime when they hear school uniforms. Also it would have been better to divide poll answers by gender of the users. I guarantee the majority saying yes are mostly guys who dont have to be the ones wearing skirts in winter or tops that might not fit their chests and maybe even uncomfortable shoes. Would anyone be even saying yes if we went back to everyone wearing tunics?
Not their whole system just one single thing and it likely is not unique to them. There was a period of time during Japanese reconstruction they made a bunch of schools all using the same blueprints which is why in anime you often see what seems to be the same school as if scenes were just lazily reused, when they actually do look same in many Japanese schools apparently. If you remove the factor of different architecture it helps reduce too many students going to certain schools and not enough in others for them to stay open where they need to exist. Now as to what is the ideal design is difficult to say especially when there is different scenes around schools so there may be needed more than one but it could be possible to design one for universal use while keeping in mind diversity of student and teacher needs. One advantage is students not getting lost as easily if in a new school.
DreamWindow said:
Laws, rules, programs, bureaus, it all falls under the same umbrella. My point is you can't have free choice, when there is a plethora of factors limiting said choices, such as restrictions based on zoning, or compulsory attendance laws. If those weren't there that would already solve the sorting problem instantly, since those who don't want to be there can simply go somewhere else. The exact logistics of the schools in question can vary. I find it interesting that you praise the Japanese system, despite it getting a reputation for being very strict.
Laws, rules, programs, bureaus, it all falls under the same umbrella. My point is you can't have free choice, when there is a plethora of factors limiting said choices, such as restrictions based on zoning, or compulsory attendance laws. If those weren't there that would already solve the sorting problem instantly, since those who don't want to be there can simply go somewhere else. The exact logistics of the schools in question can vary. I find it interesting that you praise the Japanese system, despite it getting a reputation for being very strict.
Not their whole system just one single thing and it likely is not unique to them. There was a period of time during Japanese reconstruction they made a bunch of schools all using the same blueprints which is why in anime you often see what seems to be the same school as if scenes were just lazily reused, when they actually do look same in many Japanese schools apparently. If you remove the factor of different architecture it helps reduce too many students going to certain schools and not enough in others for them to stay open where they need to exist. Now as to what is the ideal design is difficult to say especially when there is different scenes around schools so there may be needed more than one but it could be possible to design one for universal use while keeping in mind diversity of student and teacher needs. One advantage is students not getting lost as easily if in a new school.
| @traed That's one way to do it. I'd say schools can do whatever kind of architecture suits their needs, but so long as it's a more free system I'm down. |
This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
Reply to PeripheralVision
Zarutaku said:
It's just a possible measure to make real girls more competitive, an increasing rate of schoolboys prefer imaginary girls and many of them will stick with it when they grow older, as can be easily seen in this forum.
It's just a possible measure to make real girls more competitive, an increasing rate of schoolboys prefer imaginary girls and many of them will stick with it when they grow older, as can be easily seen in this forum.
Just a hypothesis, but I think the reason why school uniforms are so fetishized, especially in anime, is because of the forbidden fruit of underaged girls. Damn, I feel gross saying that, but it has a kernel of truth to it I imagine. Most people who have this thing for school uniforms are often adult men rather than their teenage peers.
| @PeripheralVision That might be the case, I mean the many forbidden fruits are a major reason why Anime became so popular, which explains the continued bad reputation amongst turists. |
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
Reply to traed
DreamWindow said:
Well, if that case then it probably is overreach, sure.
Who says that these laws actually address the problems of sorting? Often times they mismatch students into schools that don't work for them. If parents are capable of making the best possible decision for their child, then they will seek to find the best possible schools for them. This would mean that other schools would need to be able to improve their curriculum to get people to actually want to go to their school, rather than just arbitrarily forcing students to go to designated schools dictated by the district. These laws do not address scarcity issues, the only thing that they do is reinforce the school board and planning committees, over the needs and wants of the parents and students, who just want to get the best education possible. There's no reason why free choice should be limited simply due to the whims of the school district. It can be sorted out naturally.
Well, if that case then it probably is overreach, sure.
Who says that these laws actually address the problems of sorting? Often times they mismatch students into schools that don't work for them. If parents are capable of making the best possible decision for their child, then they will seek to find the best possible schools for them. This would mean that other schools would need to be able to improve their curriculum to get people to actually want to go to their school, rather than just arbitrarily forcing students to go to designated schools dictated by the district. These laws do not address scarcity issues, the only thing that they do is reinforce the school board and planning committees, over the needs and wants of the parents and students, who just want to get the best education possible. There's no reason why free choice should be limited simply due to the whims of the school district. It can be sorted out naturally.
It isn't always a law just a general rule. Exceptions do get made sometimes on technicalities. Japan probably had the right idea in making schools all the same layout since I think the layout of a school has an influence on the teachers and students.
PeripheralVision said:
Just a hypothesis, but I think the reason why school uniforms are so fetishized, especially in anime, is because of the forbidden fruit of underaged girls. Damn, I feel gross saying that, but it has a kernel of truth to it I imagine. Most people who have this thing for school uniforms are often adult men rather than their teenage peers.
Just a hypothesis, but I think the reason why school uniforms are so fetishized, especially in anime, is because of the forbidden fruit of underaged girls. Damn, I feel gross saying that, but it has a kernel of truth to it I imagine. Most people who have this thing for school uniforms are often adult men rather than their teenage peers.
Nah it's teens too just you see it more with those who it's out of ordinary for them. But teenager boys fetishize cheerleader uniforms and cheerleaders / pom squad since that's not a common thing for them.
There are girls fetishize wearing school uniforms too though which falls either under a fetish for wearing the clothes themselves or part of a kind of roleplay. Age or youthfulness association is only one factor. For some it's just wired in from experiences they had in school so they associate the clothes with those experiences but those experiences also dont have to come from school just porn or anime can also create this fetish, the brain just wires together different things and says "that's hot". It also crosses over into a fetish for discipline. In places like the US school uniforms are not common and only are associated with Catholic schools which are known for their physical discipline like hitting students with rulers or how schools in past known for spanking or paddling students so it becomes part of an S&M thing. Fetishes are actually very normal part of human sexuality.
traed said: Nah it's teens too just you see it more with those who it's out of ordinary for them. But teenager boys fetishize cheerleader uniforms and cheerleaders / pom squad since that's not a common thing for them. I mean, I guess but this is akin to suggesting teenage boys fetishize teenage girls, when in reality being a teenager wanting to bone another teenager just seems like the opposite of a fetish, but being a normie. Zarutaku said: That might be the case, I mean the many forbidden fruits are a major reason why Anime became so popular, which explains the continued bad reputation amongst turists. Imoutos are the best and most delicious forbidden fruit. |
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Reply to traed
DreamWindow said:
Much of this is anecdotal, so I can't really comment, but I feel if you are going around claiming that you have gang memorabilia, you're kind of asking for trouble. Perhaps there's some context I'm missing, though.
Parents don't even get a say in what school their children go to, most of the time, let alone have any influence on what the school board does. Where I live, it's illegal to even send your child to a school that is outside of whatever area is arbitrarily chosen by the school district, and this is the case in most public school systems as far as I understand it. The best thing that could happen, is if parents were left entirely up to themselves exactly what kind of education their children should get. If there is to be more autonomy for parents and children, there needs to be more choices for what kind of schooling and education are available. Full stop.
Much of this is anecdotal, so I can't really comment, but I feel if you are going around claiming that you have gang memorabilia, you're kind of asking for trouble. Perhaps there's some context I'm missing, though.
Parents don't even get a say in what school their children go to, most of the time, let alone have any influence on what the school board does. Where I live, it's illegal to even send your child to a school that is outside of whatever area is arbitrarily chosen by the school district, and this is the case in most public school systems as far as I understand it. The best thing that could happen, is if parents were left entirely up to themselves exactly what kind of education their children should get. If there is to be more autonomy for parents and children, there needs to be more choices for what kind of schooling and education are available. Full stop.
No, you misunderstand. The security guard was a woman and she was the one making these claims not the students. She would just randomly approaches students in the hallways and harass them for how they were dressed even though they weren't explicitly breaking any dress code rules.
Well there is obvious reason for that. You can't just have disproportionately their offspring going to one school over capacity while another is half capacity. There probably should be some sort of system set up to make transfer easier though while still not making a school go over capacity.
SuperAdventure said:
Show a link to the academic paper not the article then. Several of the things I pointed out are quotations lifted from the study, so I did respond to the correct thing. I respond what you shared. If that's not good enough, share the right thing.
Show a link to the academic paper not the article then. Several of the things I pointed out are quotations lifted from the study, so I did respond to the correct thing. I respond what you shared. If that's not good enough, share the right thing.
The paper was linked at the bottom of the article.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0885200621001162
That I think is referencing this study (doesnt seem to mention uniforms though so they must have looked up which schools had uniforms)
http://www.asasrms.org/Proceedings/y2011/Files/301090_66141.pdf
SuperAdventure said:
Not. Social sciences are actually about studying data and analysis of groups of people. Think and feel are not measurable.
Not. Social sciences are actually about studying data and analysis of groups of people. Think and feel are not measurable.
But you can and they do. It's not an objective measure of the states in themselves it's data on self measures.
SuperAdventure said:
But this is true of all people who were claimed to be measured in that study. So why would you trust the responses of 6,000 people you don't know, but not a handful of people you're talking to? I merely said that responses here are data points, not that it proved anything. Just that it's more trustworthy than a biased study.
But this is true of all people who were claimed to be measured in that study. So why would you trust the responses of 6,000 people you don't know, but not a handful of people you're talking to? I merely said that responses here are data points, not that it proved anything. Just that it's more trustworthy than a biased study.
A small handful of MAL users responding to this thread don't represent the general public, that's called selection bias.
traed said: But you can and they do. It's not an objective measure of the states in themselves it's data on self measures. It's unscientific to use 'think' and 'feel' in any study. To use it in polling is fine (see above) but when a study purports to use subjective questions and makes statements that were quoted here, it is clearly a biased thing and therefore you should throw it out. (to disregard it as any proof of anything one way or another, it's just someone's opinion embellished with selected data) traed said: A small handful of MAL users responding to this thread don't represent the general public, that's called selection bias. Incorrect that's not selection bias. Selection bias is when you go to people you know will answer a certain way; like if I went to a GOP convention to ask people their attitude about some social issue. But MAL users are a random bunch of people, and the poll on the thread actually reflects that: the results is split exactly half and half in favor of or opposed to uniforms. So what bias is there in that, and what specifically did I select with this group? -->I never said they were a great data set, only that they were more trustworthy than the study (i.e. I'm insulting the study as useless; not holding up MAL as some kind of reflection on all of society! Basically it was sarcasm) |
Reply to traed
I think the poll wasnt set up right. It is phrased in a way open to interpretation for the many who dont read the OP. They think anime when they hear school uniforms. Also it would have been better to divide poll answers by gender of the users. I guarantee the majority saying yes are mostly guys who dont have to be the ones wearing skirts in winter or tops that might not fit their chests and maybe even uncomfortable shoes. Would anyone be even saying yes if we went back to everyone wearing tunics?
Not their whole system just one single thing and it likely is not unique to them. There was a period of time during Japanese reconstruction they made a bunch of schools all using the same blueprints which is why in anime you often see what seems to be the same school as if scenes were just lazily reused, when they actually do look same in many Japanese schools apparently. If you remove the factor of different architecture it helps reduce too many students going to certain schools and not enough in others for them to stay open where they need to exist. Now as to what is the ideal design is difficult to say especially when there is different scenes around schools so there may be needed more than one but it could be possible to design one for universal use while keeping in mind diversity of student and teacher needs. One advantage is students not getting lost as easily if in a new school.
DreamWindow said:
Laws, rules, programs, bureaus, it all falls under the same umbrella. My point is you can't have free choice, when there is a plethora of factors limiting said choices, such as restrictions based on zoning, or compulsory attendance laws. If those weren't there that would already solve the sorting problem instantly, since those who don't want to be there can simply go somewhere else. The exact logistics of the schools in question can vary. I find it interesting that you praise the Japanese system, despite it getting a reputation for being very strict.
Laws, rules, programs, bureaus, it all falls under the same umbrella. My point is you can't have free choice, when there is a plethora of factors limiting said choices, such as restrictions based on zoning, or compulsory attendance laws. If those weren't there that would already solve the sorting problem instantly, since those who don't want to be there can simply go somewhere else. The exact logistics of the schools in question can vary. I find it interesting that you praise the Japanese system, despite it getting a reputation for being very strict.
Not their whole system just one single thing and it likely is not unique to them. There was a period of time during Japanese reconstruction they made a bunch of schools all using the same blueprints which is why in anime you often see what seems to be the same school as if scenes were just lazily reused, when they actually do look same in many Japanese schools apparently. If you remove the factor of different architecture it helps reduce too many students going to certain schools and not enough in others for them to stay open where they need to exist. Now as to what is the ideal design is difficult to say especially when there is different scenes around schools so there may be needed more than one but it could be possible to design one for universal use while keeping in mind diversity of student and teacher needs. One advantage is students not getting lost as easily if in a new school.
traed said: Would anyone be even saying yes if we went back to everyone wearing tunics? I don't know; I've never worn a tunic myself. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| school uniforms are the hottest thing ever. YES YES YES. |
SuperAdventure said: It's unscientific to use 'think' and 'feel' in any study. To use it in polling is fine (see above) but when a study purports to use subjective questions and makes statements that were quoted here, it is clearly a biased thing and therefore you should throw it out. (to disregard it as any proof of anything one way or another, it's just someone's opinion embellished with selected data) Social science is a soft science not a hard science. SuperAdventure said: Incorrect that's not selection bias. Selection bias is when you go to people you know will answer a certain way; like if I went to a GOP convention to ask people their attitude about some social issue. But MAL users are a random bunch of people, and the poll on the thread actually reflects that: the results is split exactly half and half in favor of or opposed to uniforms. So what bias is there in that, and what specifically did I select with this group? -->I never said they were a great data set, only that they were more trustworthy than the study (i.e. I'm insulting the study as useless; not holding up MAL as some kind of reflection on all of society! Basically it was sarcasm) N O "Selection bias refers to situations where research bias is introduced due to factors related to the study’s participants. Selection bias can be introduced via the methods used to select the population of interest, the sampling methods, or the recruitment of participants. It is also known as the selection effect." https://www.scribbr.com/research-bias/selection-bias/ ‘’Selection bias refers to a systematic error or distortion in the process of selecting participants or samples for a study or analysis, resulting in a non-representative or biased sample. ‘’ https://www.researchprospect.com/what-is-selection-bias/ Lucifrost said: I don't know; I've never worn a tunic myself. Well technically I meant gowns and tunics. Depends on the area. I would think it would be uncomfortable when you sit down and try to lean forward. |
| As someone who has experienced both sides of this. I personally prefer casual day. Strictly for comfort sake. |
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