Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu 2nd Season Part 2 Episode 2 Discussion

Accelise_ said:


How it's not be forced? I mean, he did force Emilia to get her memory and lose Pack. I don't think it's the best way. Even breaking her promise and it ended up being a yelling scene. Feels awkward.

Aramey said:
Honestly this is probably the first Re:Zero episode where I had to take few breaks, because it felt like a drag. That Otto backstory and power came out of nowhere and felt kinda unnecessary. I was fine with Otto as he was - some regular weak guy who became Subaru's good friend. Does everyone need to be special?

And I never bought this Subaru and Emilia relationship so that whole dialogue was pretty cringy to me. I was really hoping Season 2 will make me warm up to Emilia's character and the Frozen Bonds OVA was a pretty promising start, but that was it. For some reason the author decided to put Rem in a coma and instead of using this perfect time frame to make Emilia shine he turned her into a crying useless mess for 14 episodes while also introducing new girl to steal the show from her... I guess I just want her to grow a backbone, be more active and start having normal conversations with Subaru without him going into his usual "You're perfect, I believe in you, Emilia-tannn!" simp mode.

Aramey said:
Honestly this is probably the first Re:Zero episode where I had to take few breaks, because it felt like a drag. That Otto backstory and power came out of nowhere and felt kinda unnecessary. I was fine with Otto as he was - some regular weak guy who became Subaru's good friend. Does everyone need to be special?

And I never bought this Subaru and Emilia relationship so that whole dialogue was pretty cringy to me. I was really hoping Season 2 will make me warm up to Emilia's character and the Frozen Bonds OVA was a pretty promising start, but that was it. For some reason the author decided to put Rem in a coma and instead of using this perfect time frame to make Emilia shine he turned her into a crying useless mess for 14 episodes while also introducing new girl to steal the show from her... I guess I just want her to grow a backbone, be more active and start having normal conversations with Subaru without him going into his usual "You're perfect, I believe in you, Emilia-tannn!" simp mode.

ExcaliburAO said:

If you don’t care about Subaru or Emilia then why are you watching re zero? They are literally the 2 main characters.

NovaLord said:
I love this anime, I really do, its one of my favorites, but Subaru's 'love' for Emilia makes no fucking sense and its by far the weakest part of the story. Emilia had some very valid criticisms only for Subaru to brush them off by repeatedly stating that he loved her. That doesn't change what she had to say.
This episode was great, the directing and everything where well done, but without any form of buildup towards their relationship it ends up being feeling flat and fake.
I wish the author would at least try and flesh out both Emilia and Subaru before forcing this romance on the viewer. Had we had that build up, the episode would've been far better.

Alpha_Druid said:


I agree with you. When LN readers said that Emilia gets development in this season I was not expecting this. Subaru here comes of as a bit manipulative. I thought Subaru would bring up reasonable answers to Emilia's questions but he only repeated one line. And as you said, it would've been fine if there was build up to this scene, atleast in this current timeline. Rem and Subaru's scene worked better because it had build up, the build up for the then current events for Subaru to lose hope and the events that transpired in the previous arc for Rem:s affection. Here, Emilia's mind is too underdeveloped for things like romantic love. She doesn't organically develop those feelings for Subaru, never. It's Subaru who is pushing his love on Emilia. And hence, Emilia being fragile minded was manipulated by Subaru. I still feel sorry for Emilia. Each and every one of the people near to her did dirty to her. Puck leaves her after not coming out for her most vulnerable ordeal. Subaru is pushing his feelings onto Emilia and manipulates her. Now, I'm not saying they did that on purpose but the results matter. This scene could've been way better if this was just a pep talk without the confession and kissing part. That could've come later after all things have been resolved imo.

Gilgameshuu said:
Here's a bit of context from the Novels. I hope it helps you better understand why Subaru confessed, and kept repeating his love for Emilia over and over again.

Cormac07 said:
40 episodes till now yet some still can't understand the characters.

The scene showed how selfish Emilia is. She wanted his love over his explanation. She feared that he would stop loving her.

Subaru's lines were cheesy because he didn't know what to answer. Things that Emilia did for him never happened in the successful timeline. Hence,every reason Subaru gave were superficial to Emilia.
Similar to the case of Satella and Subaru.

Isn't Emilia the same person who forced herself to love Subaru so that he won't stop loving her.(Episode 11— Taste of Death).
She went on to kiss him to prove her love.
Some still can't remember that.
She wants his love but does she reciprocate his feelings? No.
That's the kind of person Emilia is.
Can't blame her for that.(SPOILERs)

Soon a certain someone will confront Emilia for her hypocrisy and being a damsel in distress.

Subaru's explanation was vague but his feelings were true. Satella's explanation was vague too but she did love him. Otherwise he wouldn't have RBD. He can't tell her that he has been Returning by death again and again just for her.

Subaru wouldn't have made the bet with Roswaal if he never believed in Emilia. He already lost his qualification.
Even Echidna wanted Subaru to take the trials.

Romores said:


What I really didn't like it's how Subaru managed to reach her without really saying anything meaningful or convincing.

rakp333 said:
Everything Subaru said was convincing, meaningful, and significant. It was his honest confession and his display of affection that reached her. If anything, it has been indirectly conveyed multiple times that Emilia has feelings for Subaru. And acts of intimacy like hugging, kissing, caressing, etc., are universal between couples to comfort the other and calm them down.

rakp333 said:
And it was not just the kiss; it was what Subaru followed up with after the kiss. Rewatch that. He told her "You will find your precious feelings in your memories. The reason to keep you going" which made her more accepting of her incoming memories instead of invariably rejecting her new self. What Subaru meant was that not all of her memories would be traumatic or bad; there would be stuff that she will treasure for the rest of her life. That in her memories, she would find reasons to continue persevering and progress in life. And Subaru was indeed true here, as you shall find out during Emilia's trials.

rakp333 said:
And if you try to analyze Emilia's demeanor, you'll understand that she tries to hold back her tears when around others. Emilia is stubborn. Emilia wants to be useful. Emilia doesn't want to be seen as inadequate. Emilia doesn't want to show her weakness to the person who said that he loved her despite her weak faults.

rakp333 said:
Furthermore, after a few episodes, you will also hear from Emilia about some of the reasons that influenced her. In her mind, there is a tiny prospect that Subaru may be lying, but if that is the case, then she will convert those lies into hopes & wishes. She has mustered the resolution and will to convert those lies into reality.

Hakisak said:


subaru = r/niceguys starter pack.

Hakisak said:


subaru = r/niceguys starter pack.

Romores said:

In my opinion, Emilia was more than entitled to be angry in that situation. She was broken and disoriented, it's just normal for her to be like that.

What I really didn't like it's how Subaru managed to reach her without really saying anything meaningful or convincing. She was indeed still unconvinced before he kissed her. I know that he loves her, but seriously, is a kiss really the solution to everything? After the series gave us S1E18 and S2E04? Was being kissed actually an act that Emilia considers very important? If this was supposed to be a deep or sweet moment, in my opinion the anime really didn't manage to deliver it as it should have. What I saw was just two severely socially-awkward and mentally unstable people that just decided to trust each other on no solid basis (save for Subaru's obsessive "I love you"s). Is this really a good thing? It's probably just me that don't understand, as 90% of people liked it.

StupidSimp69 said:


Build up? Their relationship starting from literally episode 1 up to this point was the build up. Author already fleshed them out well enough already, I don't see how you think this is "forced", Subaru is not forcing Emilia to love him.

HanashiD4 said:


I think you're just overthinking, and it may also apply to the same people that has as similar opinion as yours. If some people find the kiss scene to be somewhat "unimportant" and “cringy”, then it's an ignorance to the character's passionate feelings that both of them really needs to vent out and accept each other, for the relationship between them is really unhealthy.

Just reflect on Emilia's distress first.

- How has she been gone through the racial discrimination against her own elf race, especially she has 95% similar appearance to Satella (who is a controversially historical figure that this lore mystery needs to be unraveled into an actual degree in the future)? Especially, if you already have watched Frozen Bonds movie when she has been introduced to the world that is now far different.

- How has she been doing to clear out her social reputation as a sole surviving elf? Of course, being a royal candidate with democratic ideal is her selfish goal to do that, but is it still worth to fight through it? Well, getting into politics without a sign of irresponsibility means that it takes more charisma, frankly critical rationalism, confidence, and humility towards the majority's demand and changes to be a suitable rule, but in actuality, she doesn't have those kind of attributes because she isn't too socially exposed throughout how the world works. Being wary of most things is totally the lacking core for her confidence.

- Also, to Emilia herself, Subaru's genuine love for her feels like his suffocating idealization of Arc 3, as she refuses to believe him and take his words at face value. "Don't talk like I'm just some doll!" especially cuts deep, but it is precisely because he doesn't see Emilia as "just some doll" (anymore) that he left her side (among other reasons), not letting her entrust him with everything. Finally, the end touches upon the other main source of her struggles—the fear of how she'll turn out after regaining all of her memories, and whether she'll still be herself. If the point of origin is wrong, doesn't that make the path walked and the destination all wrong as well? Now, does it sound deep and complex? Maybe, there's a meaningful context from that certain dialogue. Well, think about it, is Subaru being overly nice to her feels concerning for herself too?

Now let's reflect on Subaru's side:

- At the very first moment of this entire series, do you pay attention to Subaru have been reading some manga with romance content on it, especially in the convenience store scene? How does it feel when he also sighs towards the bypassing couple? Well, of course, I can consider him to be a romance connoisseur with thirst of love which is why he has been acting overly confident with Emilia (and around the public space after the prologue) since he knows the guide on how to "act like a proper man for a lady". Well, tbh, I really feel annoyed by their first meeting and his quirkiness, but as soon as they then keep the casual conversation ongoing, it really feels natural and tranquil for them to talk about anything they have been curious about. Of course, it's like you're having a first proper conversation with your crush while you expect to have a constant heartbeat, but instead, they still keep cool and wholesome to each other.

Not until that Court Scene when he pridefully yet amateurly stands and confronts to the officials regarding the discrimination, but Julius handles the behavioral criticism towards Subaru by being overly confident. Well, tbh, Subaru does deserve that kind of treatment, but that itself isn't enough for him to be realized. He still has a feeling of Karma for being "harshly" treated by Julius since he is a hot-headed character, which is why some people don't like him because he really needs to keep his mind cool.

Imagine watching , and try to distinguish. Which one can you blame towards? The hot-headed one who had taken so much steroids? Or the guy (Youtuber) who had been deadlifting for many seconds?

Well, if you choose the hot-headed one, then that applies the same when you and some others mostly feel annoyed towards Subaru's behavior. Going way over-the-top isn't decency's cup of tea, but it makes sense that calming himself down will not work because trying to recontextualize the whole, harsh scenario and shoehorn him into a positive light will be too heavy to stop it. It's like you cannot easily insist a moderator to stop being groomed by a beautiful adult female streamer because everything they spend with each other have been overwhelming in regards to their sexual relationship. *sigh* Simps be simps, I guess.

Luckily, his rejection towards Rem really shows how he has been overly loyal towards Emilia because he has been spending more valuable time with Emilia despite Rem treats Subaru more caringly than Emilia. However, feeling that he rejects the ideal of harem shows how Subaru's decision to enlighten himself over the acceptance and appreciation towards Rem's help being greedily healthy for himself. Not to say that he doesn't wish for a polygamy, but he really has to hold himself before his sense of slothful fragility will go even worse (which if he did, it could lead to Sloth IF story when he abandoned everything that happened within Roswaal's domain).

Now, to the peak episode of Episode 4 of S2, if you notice how he had been built up to be socially prideful of himself for achieving many medals, some and some people could neglect his presence due to him being "perpetually and perfectly fine" within their perspective... or the rest could have a need to stay away from him because he has been overly exaggerating for how many times he had been achieving... which it leads to the context for him being apart from each other, leaving himself to be a social outcast due to his lacking sense of humility. I can still call Subaru a "prideful and greedy person" for forcing himself to fit into a right standard and reputation, but his methods might not be effective and pleasant too. This is why Roswaal mentions about his "greed" for bringing back what and how he needs to resolve this situation before it will get worse ever since he has no choice to stop himself around the corner. You can call that as Protagonist Compliant.

Speaking of "no choice", why do you call that kiss "not resolve to the problem"? Ever since they have been spending a valuable time with each other.... Ever since they had been berating each other over their unhealthy ways.... Ever since Emilia have been thinking that Subaru breaks his promise... that kiss is the only way to show how Subaru can resolve Emilia's heavy doubt on him and others.

*sigh* I know that the kiss scene doesn't please everyone else in audience's perspective, but you have to understand that being incoherent while berating each other feels so realistic and raw too despite there are some cheesy mood to it. Pointing, sharing, and accepting each other's flaws is a big gift to confess each other's feelings. Although Subaru have been repetitively saying "I love you" many times, both of their mindset have been overwhelmed with feelings. It's like 75% of it are their emotional sense while 25% of it are their rational sense.

Also this might be a tricky one, but have you find some people, specifically couple, doing some PDA (Public Display of Affection) in the midst of public space to be cringy? If so, I think you, as a viewer with different perception, can reflect to that too, but instead, you also have explored the private version of it, which I can call it as Private Display of Affection

Well, of course, their wholesome relationship doesn't feel awkward to me because they don't go around somewhere public. Thanks to Roswaal's Mansion for letting them spend more time on each other privately.

Once again, the second half is one of the rawest moment I can reflect on it for their incoherently consistent mindset and feeling. The kiss of acceptance is the reason to believe without needing a reason to love somebody.

OG_Gattsu said:

What i like about Rem’s confession is it presents how flawed both of them are, the lengths Rem was willing to go through and sacrifice after her suffering to be with Subaru. They try to do a similar thing with Emilia but it doesn’t work for me because what are her “flaws”? She comes off as a cute innocent puppy UwU Subaru has to protect and is crying because her owner left her alone for a few hours.

payp20 said:
So we’re just gonna ignore the fact Emilia’s eyes lit up with Subaru’s image at the end when she looking for something to keep pushing forward?

HanashiD4 said:
[cut]

Romores said:

First of all, I thank you for your effort: there was no need to summarize everything, I remember everything pretty well (I've been rewatching Re:Zero non-stop in the last three weeks).

I perfectly understand what the point of their dialogue was supposed to be, what I really didn't appreciate was how it was delivered.

I feel that there's simply something missing that doesn't allow me to feel good for the characters. I'm not sure what. Maybe it's that the dialogue is simply too chaotic for me, and leaves most of the "emotional work" to the viewer's memory. I personally don't think this is a good thing, but that's probably just a personal preference.

In S1E18, where the dialogue took basically 20 minutes (instead of the about 10 of this one), I feel the pacing was hugely better: it allowed the characters to remember events and feelings that the viewer was supposed to notice in order to understand where the dialogue was going, and I simply felt it as far more emotional and meaningful than this one. I cry every time I watch that dialogue (and I mean literally), whereas this one I have to really force myself to understand what they're trying to convey. But, I repeat, that's probably just me.

I'm not hating the episode (I simply LOVED Otto's part, it was the real deal for me) or the outcome, I simply didn't like how the dialogue was directed. I've rewatched it three other times and, thanks to some of the comments here, I managed to put things in a better perspective, but I still think this was not as good as many say. And that's fine.

I think I'll be able to appreciate it much better when I'll read it in the LN.

Gilgameshuu said:


Here's a bit of context from the Novels. I hope it helps you better understand why Subaru confessed, and kept repeating his love for Emilia over and over again.

NovaLord said:
I love this anime, I really do, its one of my favorites, but Subaru's 'love' for Emilia makes no fucking sense and its by far the weakest part of the story. Emilia had some very valid criticisms only for Subaru to brush them off by repeatedly stating that he loved her. That doesn't change what she had to say.
This episode was great, the directing and everything where well done, but without any form of buildup towards their relationship it ends up being feeling flat and fake.
I wish the author would at least try and flesh out both Emilia and Subaru before forcing this romance on the viewer. Had we had that build up, the episode would've been far better.

6Mankind123 said:
Since when does something like “love” need build up or logical explanation?! Two random people could bump into each walking down the street and fall madly in love with one another this happens countless of times in storytelling and the real world now all of a sudden you need build up. Really ?