Is this movie Shinkai's weakest writing yet?

Old_School_Akira said:
I didn’t watch this yet. But I haven’t liked a single one of his films because they all look the same a have the same kind of stories.
This movie looks like Your Name 2.

And to think people call him the next Miyazaki.

Old_School_Akira said:
I didn’t watch this yet. But I haven’t liked a single one of his films because they all look the same a have the same kind of stories.
This movie looks like Your Name 2.

And to think people call him the next Miyazaki.

viramyeon said:
Well no but actually yes, I wasn't really amazed by the story either, the concept is I think what really similar, resembling Kimi no Na Wa the most but in different concept

I completely understand that it's kind of normal since the writer of the two films is the same. Maybe it is his signature with time travel concept. But I expect more than just that. But I do appreciate all the CG of the parallel cloud scene, I GOT GOOSEBUMPS

With that being said, I do expect more than that but I still love the animation~

Alcor_The_Faint said:
Like, i don't consider Hodoka being boring a grave sin, but goddamn, his motivation for going to Tokyo. Chasing a sunray.... from his dream. Ok? And yet he staunchly rejects the idea of coming home as if he hates his family because they force him to eat babies or something.... And even then they didn't go in depth with what the fuss was in his home that made him run away other than chasing that sunray from his dream.

Keisuke is totally okay of Hina's sacrifice, seeing it as necessary for the livelihood of the rest of Tokyo, so he's totally okay with stopping Hodoka in his attempt, even giving him a slap for it. But after seeing his 'resolve' (which he already displayed before the gunshot) he's suddenly up for tackling Police Josuke.

Also, the romance... It's not natural. Reminds me of Garden of Words, but at least they have their mutual feelings moments and denials there. I have to wonder whether i should feel sad or not whenever Hodoka is sad, because I'm not even sure if it's appropriate for him to have that kind of feelings for Hina with how they act around each other so far.

And there's so many holes/questions left open. What about the other Weather Miko the fortune-teller mentioned that has different personalities? What about Weather Miko's original job of conveying other people's prayers? Where the frick is Hina's and Nagi's father? Where tf Hodoka gets his gun (which is really anticlimactic compared to the trailer, what, Shinkai learned from Tetsuya Nomura?)? How tf Tokyo here supposed to match the Tokyo in Your Name? And what's this weather power, seriously... They give us a scene with two middle schoolers being soaked after looking at a water forming into something, or how about the dragon from the sky that brought Hina and Hodoka back, or you know, the whole water fishes thing that several characters pointed out?

Honestly, I'm pretty burnt out with this film.

Alcor_The_Faint said:
Like, i don't consider Hodoka being boring a grave sin, but goddamn, his motivation for going to Tokyo. Chasing a sunray.... from his dream. Ok? And yet he staunchly rejects the idea of coming home as if he hates his family because they force him to eat babies or something.... And even then they didn't go in depth with what the fuss was in his home that made him run away other than chasing that sunray from his dream.

Keisuke is totally okay of Hina's sacrifice, seeing it as necessary for the livelihood of the rest of Tokyo, so he's totally okay with stopping Hodoka in his attempt, even giving him a slap for it. But after seeing his 'resolve' (which he already displayed before the gunshot) he's suddenly up for tackling Police Josuke.

Also, the romance... It's not natural. Reminds me of Garden of Words, but at least they have their mutual feelings moments and denials there. I have to wonder whether i should feel sad or not whenever Hodoka is sad, because I'm not even sure if it's appropriate for him to have that kind of feelings for Hina with how they act around each other so far.

And there's so many holes/questions left open. What about the other Weather Miko the fortune-teller mentioned that has different personalities? What about Weather Miko's original job of conveying other people's prayers? Where the frick is Hina's and Nagi's father? Where tf Hodoka gets his gun (which is really anticlimactic compared to the trailer, what, Shinkai learned from Tetsuya Nomura?)? How tf Tokyo here supposed to match the Tokyo in Your Name? And what's this weather power, seriously... They give us a scene with two middle schoolers being soaked after looking at a water forming into something, or how about the dragon from the sky that brought Hina and Hodoka back, or you know, the whole water fishes thing that several characters pointed out?

Honestly, I'm pretty burnt out with this film.

Anistylez said:
Garden of Words is way more terrible writing, +1 to enjoying it. The questions left open make me think he is toying with the idea of a sequel, but then again he tends to do that with most of his movies.

ArcturusMi said:
Your Name and Weathering With You both revolves on magical adventure (with magical girl) of Star Crossed Lovers.

Also wtf Kimi No Na Wa ending is anything but sad. It's the happiest thing Shinkai ever wrote at that point. You really thought Taki and Mitsuha won't be dating after that ending?

iunne said:
Tenki no Ko = Shinkai's weakest writing?
LOL please, have you watched Hoshi wo Ou Kodomo?

Anyway, Shinkai Makoto is the closest person I will ever come to legit worshiping. But generally speaking, the more complicated his plots are, the more they suck.


When you watched Tenki no Ko, you noticed Taki and Mitsuha right? While it's true we don't know when Tenki no Ko occurs in relation to Kimi no Na Wa, they at least weren't married. No rings, and Mitsuha's name tag still read "Miyamizu." So at least I'm a little bit thankful that Shinkai left that open.
EDIT: sorry, this random note wasn't to disagree with you. Kimi no Na Wa is by far Shinkai's happiest ending yet.

Tohsaka_Rukia said:
Some of y'all haven't seen "Children Who Chase Lost Voices" yet and it clearly shows.

The movie is currently killing it in Japan but I can't feel any hype outside of it at all unlike Kimi no Nawa. Probably because it's still not available in illegal streaming sites which most foreigners use lol. I'm 90% sure Kimi no Nawa being immediately available helped amplify its hype. I haven't seen the show yet either but it can't possibly be worse than the movie I mentioned.

ArcturusMi said:

What about that movie? I'm curious whenever someone brought it up.

It's romance is worse than Garden of Words, which is known to left some people wonder whether they should feel sad or not because the romance is kinda iffy, but if IYO Children Who Chase Lost Voices has worse romance than Garden of Words then it's getting complex lol.


Well yeah, Your Name is definitely more available. When will Weathering With You appears in China? We can expect a flood of discussion after that.

ArcturusMi said:
Children Who Chase Lost Voices? Haven't seen it yet myself lol

Your Name's time travel plot isn't complicated at all if you don't restrain your thoughts on "linear timeline". Like, it's still more complicated than say, Endgame's time travel, but it's miles better than some series like *cough*Kingdom Hearts *cough*

His failure this time is the inability to make the viewers feel attached to the main protagonist. I said how his backstory doesn't make sense at all... When he's fundamentally Male Mitsuha, except we know WHY Mitsuha does what she does, her intro is basically that, informing the viewers about her sleepy town, her embarrassing and distant father, her embarrassing tradition. We can get understand her and then get attached to her.


On that Your Name cameo, i saw someone said it's set in 2021, aka the ending of Your Name, Taki and Mitsuha haven't found each other.... But that's not the problem here, we know that Tokyo in Your Name is sunny as hell, while here it's weather anomaly.

Tohsaka_Rukia said:


It's basically Shinkai's own take at a Ghibli kind of movie which he fails miserably at. It's been a long time since I've seen it and I've pretty much forgotten most of its contents but IIRC, there wasn't any romance at all since the theme of the movie wasn't about love but death. There was a mysterious character at first which our protagonist seems to be drawn to but he kinda fell off from the show pretty quick lol. Just watch and judge it for yourself. You might like it.

I don't know the current political state between China and Japan but from what I've heard, Spirited Away was just recently screened in China after a very long time. I don't know if that has some kind of bearing on their political relationship though.

ArcturusMi said:

I'm hard to impress, so i doubt i would enjoy it without tearing down every scenes lol

So China is pretty vague.... What about India?

iunne said:

I see, well in the end it's all up to the individual. Personally, I have never related to a single of Shinkai's protagonists, despite rating 5 Centimeters Per Second a 10/10 and Kimi no Na Wa a 9/10. I honestly don't understand what you mean by an attachment to Mitsuha (personally I found Hodaka and Hinata way more likeable).
Anwyway, my reasons for liking Shinkai movies are of course the animation art style but also the amazing thematic coherence. I find that the weakest parts of his films to be consistently the plot and character/romantic development.

And interesting, you wouldn't by any chance have the link to that comment stating it was in 2021? I saw no allusion to the year at all in the movie but finding all the easter eggs in a movie is fun lol.

Tohsaka_Rukia said:


Those are just my assumptions. I literally have no idea what's going on between China and Japan or if there's anything even going on between them lol.

Idk either. Probably in a few days or weeks since the movie is already going to hit at my country tomorrow so I assume it's the same as everywhere else.

ArcturusMi said:

I mean you can at least understand Mitsuha's reasons (personally, the embarrassing parent and smalltown boredom hits me lol, i wanna live in an urban place) as opposed to Hodoka who left his unnamed island (i thought it's the island from 5cm) just because he had a dream about it.

ArcturusMi said:
Thinking the movie is over when they played Nandemonaiya is one thing, but the stair scene is the selling point. We're so happy that we're just smiling for 15 minutes.

iunne said:

Ok, but reasons for what? Mitsuha took no initiative to go to the urban city herself (except to find Taki, which means she was motivated by Taki not the city), while Hodoka did. All Mitsuha did was get passively hit by the body-switching phenomenon, and it was probably all luck that it happened to be someone who lived in an urban area (let's look at this from a statistical standpoint lol).

In the first place, there is absolutely no character development for either Mitsuha or Taki. Their personalities are actually completely irrelevant in regards to the core of the plot, versus Tenki no Ko's protagonists who consciously call upon the supernatural phenomenon. Basically, I don't see the fact that we don't know Hodaka and Hinata's backstories as an important reason for Kimi no Na Wa being better than Tenki no Ko. And just to clarify, I think Kimi no Na Wa is better lol.

Yeah, personally out of Shinkai's 7 films, Kimi no Na Wa's and Tenki no Ko's endings were my least favorites. He's definitely changed the mood of his films. I'm a fan more because of 5 Centimeters Per Second, The Place Promised in Our Early Days, and Voices of a Distant Star.

However, his newer films are the best in terms of art & music. Especially people haha.

ArcturusMi said:
Because Mitsuha is still in a high school. They mentioned that when she gets to uni (because of her good grades), she'll leave the town.

All the protagonists did in Weathering With You were to turn the phenomenon into business, and it's the standard Japanese "I'll bring smile upon the rainy days". Funny you mentioned personality that are irrelevant to the plot, since you know, it's also a Weathering With You problem, meanwhile their contrasting personalities allows Taki and Mitsuha changes the other's life, Feminine Taki landing a date while Tomboy Mitsuha scares her annoying classmates among other things.

And what I'm talking about by comparing Hodoka to Mitsuha (not Hina nor Taki, since they're "the one being approached"), is that you can understand why they do what they do. Mitsuha in Taki's body enjoy the live in Tokyo moreso than Taki himself, and we get to see WHY. Meanwhile we see Hodoka seems so determined to stay in Tokyo and would throw a tantrum whenever someone tried to bring him home, but we all know those actions are because of some dream he had, not because something more 'real' (many people who watched the film there'd be some big shit happening in Hodoka's home that make him hates his home, throughout the film but nope).

I can understand preferring the more mellow side of his films. And 5cm for example did what Your Name (or any good written story) did right too, more or less. We get to see the backstory and romance of Takaki and Akari in Episode 1. We get to see how hurtful it is to have a one sided crush by seeing Kanae narrates her story in Episode 2. Put them up together, and in Episode 3, One More Time, One More Chance hits the sad bone.

iunne said:

The reason why I gave Tenki no Ko a 7/10 and Kimi no Na Wa a 9/10 is precisely because the plot in Tenki no Ko is a mess. I'm not arguing with you there. I still find the actual protagonists of Tenki no Ko more likeable, however I've really never related to Shinkai's protagonists.

And the thing is, I don't like 5 Centimeters Per Second because it made me feel sad. To be completely honest, I didn't feel sorry for the main guy or the female lead in the second part. The movie made a lasting impression on me because I find it thematically perfect in music, title, pacing, and imagery.

Edit: Well we've completely gone off track from the initial post. Tenki no Ko has a messier plot than Kimi no Na Wa imo, but it's nowhere near as messy as Hoshi wo Ou Kodomo.

zalapeno said:
for me personally, tenki no ko is makoto's second best yet after kimi no nawa in terms of story. but for the romance, i think tenki no ko is a bit better (especially the ending and the chemistry/screentime between the main cast) because u know the cliffhanger in kimi no nawa ending really pissed me off lmao.

i like kimi no nawa because of its story and the supernatural things,
i like tenki no ko for the romance, art and the soundtracks

KiriRin_196 said:
Hmmm...i think there were many plot holes(?) in Tenki no Ko. Well i'll rewatch it on 2020 for a better conclusion.

Alcor_The_Faint said:
Like, i don't consider Hodoka being boring a grave sin, but goddamn, his motivation for going to Tokyo. Chasing a sunray.... from his dream. Ok? And yet he staunchly rejects the idea of coming home as if he hates his family because they force him to eat babies or something.... And even then they didn't go in depth with what the fuss was in his home that made him run away other than chasing that sunray from his dream.

Keisuke is totally okay of Hina's sacrifice, seeing it as necessary for the livelihood of the rest of Tokyo, so he's totally okay with stopping Hodoka in his attempt, even giving him a slap for it. But after seeing his 'resolve' (which he already displayed before the gunshot) he's suddenly up for tackling Police Josuke.

Also, the romance... It's not natural. Reminds me of Garden of Words, but at least they have their mutual feelings moments and denials there. I have to wonder whether i should feel sad or not whenever Hodoka is sad, because I'm not even sure if it's appropriate for him to have that kind of feelings for Hina with how they act around each other so far.

And there's so many holes/questions left open. What about the other Weather Miko the fortune-teller mentioned that has different personalities?
What about Weather Miko's original job of conveying other people's prayers?

Where the frick is Hina's and Nagi's father?

Where tf Hodoka gets his gun?

How tf Tokyo here supposed to match the Tokyo in Your Name?

And what's this weather power, seriously... They give us a scene with two middle schoolers being soaked after looking at a water forming into something, or how about the dragon from the sky that brought Hina and Hodoka back, or you know, the whole water fishes thing that several characters pointed out?

Chiibi said:

Hodaka's not boring at all; or did you miss the part where he had multiple policemen at gunpoint?

.we don't NEED to know the exact reason he ran away from home; just that he was unhappy and felt like he was suffocating and wanted freedom badly. Sixteen is the most rebellious stage in a person's life so that's the most likely time they'd decide to run away. That's all we needed to know. Does the movie really have to hold your hand and exposition dump everyone's backstory? No, I don't think it does. Shinkai's interview said he didn't WANT to do that this time; he chose to be more subtle. I think it was a good choice.

It's easier to handwave other people's problems when you are not witnessing their reactions before your very eyes. It becomes more difficult once you get up close. Keisuke already saw himself in Hodaka. He also saw his separation from his beloved late wife in Hodaka and Hina's situation. It was obvious he was thinking "Not again, if I can f*cking help it!"

In a way, Keisuke got his happy ending through Hodaka's choice; to be reunited with a loved one.

It's fine. It's not like this took place in two days; the kids spent quite a lot of time together and they just clicked. They clearly enjoyed each other's company; the montages of them working and running to the hotel along with her little brother were displaying to us 'these three are now a family'. I think it's one of Shinkai's better romances...since they interacted with each other a LOT more than his other leads.

Those aren't really "holes"; they're just details being touched upon.

Obviously dead or estranged from the family, otherwise they'd live with him? Come on, use your brain. xD

Didn't one of the gansters mention how someone threw it away?

Take character cameos with a grain of salt lol; artists will put them there just because it's fun. I also do it in my own works.

Well it was revealed there's a whole different world up in the sky. It was also revealed that Hina received her power to control the rain/sun one year before those events. You can accept the dragon and water fish as a sign that the balance is now out of whack because Hina's powers come with a price.

MarylandIzumiKun said:
I disagree. I thought the writing for this one was among his strongest. Motivations were clearly laid out and the movie did not seem to have any parts where it dragged at all.

In terms of Shinkai's weakest writing, I would say that has to go to 5cm. Sorry, but I simply don't buy someone being hung up on a "romance" from ELEMENTARY School and never moving on. From the way Shinkai wrote the MC from 5cm, I did not buy that he would fail to move on or realize the shallowness of pre pre teen love.

Alcor_The_Faint said:

How does that make him any interesting? The build up isn't enough to begin with. Not to mention every time the police is in frame most watchers lost some braincells because of how incompetent the police are.

When the ENTIRE character's motivation is based on his runaway, you OUGHT to explain it. Feeling entrapped? How and why?

But Hodoka already shows his resolve even when Keisuke starts the comparison between him and Hodoka, before the confrontation at the abandoned building. His "heel-face turn" is added later for drama at this point.

Friends? Sure. Romance? Never

Also the whole water creatures that are given scenes like the toddler in apartment and two schoolkids never went anywhere either.

It's such a basic exposition that has to be given in a story that expects you to treat it as a realistic story, yet it didn't even bother. Why no character, in this realistic world, ever asks such question? "Where's your father".

He has it already in the ship, no?

But WHY? Surely, there's a better way to show the viewer "the climate is fucked" than that.

Chiibi said:

Police being incompetent in media is a PRETTY common trope, especially in anime. lol

If he explained that he was 'suffocating', that implies that his life was being controlled too much by other people. I totally get it?

His "heel face" happened because he saw other men brutally handling a kid who he was already attached to (see Papa Wolf trope)

Lol that's just your opinion. Friendship can easily go to romance, especially if it hasn't been a LONG friendship. I thought they had chemistry right away. The fireworks scene was a pretty big hint there...or are you totally unfamiliar with Romantic atmosphere in anime or what?

We were shown they were a part of the upper world...what else did you want from them?

They could have asked off-screen...who cares; the answer is still obvious. Nobody asked that in Disney princess movies where you only see the father; you just assume the mother died. Lol

Don't remember.

Lol "WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY" anything?

Because it was visually interesting. :p Those were some of my favorite scenes.

Alcor_The_Faint said:

Except he doesn't say that?

Not to mention it still fails to explains HOW much of his life being controlled, to justify his tantrum at the slightest mention of going home.

You may be misled by his "Get your hands off Hodoka!" remark. IIRC The scene where Keisuke changes his mind has him focused on Hodoka's expression and eyes, not the police being rough with him (which they really aren't)

Friendship can easily go to romance, yes, but not like this.

Maybe the explanation about the upper world itself? It only appears near the end and only for a short amount of time, and its existence still doesn't answer the two scenes with water animals.

Many cares

Disney princesses? First, they're based on already existing stories with its own set of characters.

Second, they're not in a real world setting where you expect them to deal with their problems like a normal human being.

Third, they actually did in a story that incorporates family in some sort. Princess and The Frog has Tiana inheriting her late father's restaurant, but her mother does exists and actually part of the story.

And the point still stands, the purpose of that gun and its subsequent gunshot is a trailer bait. Shinkai is friends with Nomura now?

Well it's aesthetically pleasing to look at. It's Shinkai after all. But it serves no purpose.

Chiibi said:
He absolutely did. I saw the movie two days ago.

If his reaction is THAT extreme, that means " a lot of it."

They were being pretty rough with him; Papa Wolf trope still applies.

Why not? She told him 'You gave me my purpose in life'. That's a pretty romantic thing to say to someone. And she definitely flirted with him; touching his face and stuff.

Speaking as a girl,

"Girls don't touch the faces of guys we aren't into."

That makes it more mysterious. I don't see anything wrong with that. Why should the movie make us understand EVERY little thing? I think it's cooler when details of other worlds aren't explained. It's called 'imagination'. Explaining what they are and why they're there takes all the WONDER out of it.

Nah, just you. :D

Not all of them.

Again, not all of them.

Sure but I'm talking about girls like Belle and Jasmine whose mothers were never mentioned. They were not important to the story...just like how Hina's father isn't important to the story.

I don't know who Nomura is.

So what? A lot of Miyazaki's creatures don't serve a purpose either; they're just there because they're neat to look at.

Alcor_The_Faint said:

Never watched any of his movies.

Pyro said:
I'd be surprised if it's worse than his writing in The Place Promised in Our Early Days or Children Who Chase Lost Voices. Those are rough. Writing is really not Shinkai's strong suit.


You've never seen a Miyazaki film? That's gotta be a sin of the highest order for any anime fan.

Chiibi said:
Police being incompetent in media is a PRETTY common trope, especially in anime. lol

advocatus said:


The point that annoyed me the most was the insane amount of surreptitious advertising during the whole movie. They really used every opportunity to show us some real life brands. Every laptop and smartphone in this movie has a big fat Apple logo, the older guy always smokes Kent cigarettes and drinks Maker's Mark, Hodoka was sitting at McDonald's and eats a burger and says that it is the best Meal of his life... I wonder how much money those companies paid for all the ads.

Chiibi said:


I never mind this in movies and shows; I think it's funny such a tiny thing annoys others though.

I don't think Hodaka's comment was so much about McD's burger as it was about the situation he was in and because he was starving, fastfood would be a Godsend compared to what he was eating before.