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| This movie was great! I didn't expect them to cut out some parts that are identical to UBW like the Lancer vs Archer and how Saber was summoned which I think did a lot of justice to the movie. It wasted no time in setting up the Holy Grail War and damn, I didn't expect this to be more serious than UBW. Maybe it's because Rin isn't in the spotlight anymore. Lol that scene with Shirou's dream XD. I don't remember this assassin on UBW, or do I? I'm not really sure. The scene where they showed a flashback of Kiritsugu is awesome. Such a great character. A bit of comic relief between Kirei and Shirou too, pretty funny stuff |
EGOIST said: I didn't expect this to be more serious than UBW. Maybe it's because Rin isn't in the spotlight anymore. Lol that scene with Shirou's dream XD. I don't remember this assassin on UBW, or do I? I'm not really sure. The scene where they showed a flashback of Kiritsugu is awesome. Such a great character. A bit of comic relief between Kirei and Shirou too, pretty funny stuff It'll only get darker from here. True Assassin, as he is called, only appears in the Heaven's Feel route. The reason is because, on the other 2 routes, Zouken decides not to participate in the war. |
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| Great movie as expected. Things were handled very well given the runtime. Sure stuff was cut out but that's unavoidable given the length of this route. The majority of the most important points remained and it makes it smooth for movie format. Also nice that not too much of the intro was rehashed so more time for new content. It may be a little confusing for those new to Fate or non VN people but eh what can you do. All in all awesome movie, now the long wait for the other two parts... |
| Since when is assasin this strong? And didn't rider get killed? |
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aliinetje said: He is not strong.Since when is assasin this strong? And didn't rider get killed? Rider didn't die. She just took spirit form. |
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aliinetje said: Since when is assasin this strong? And didn't rider get killed? Assassin is not strong. He was just playing his class correctly. Sneaking around and playing dirty. Being an actual assassin. He also uses the Shadow to his benefit, the primary reason for why Lancer and Saber lost. Aside from his gimmicky NP. As for Rider, remember in UBW when she died? She turned into grey dust. She didn't do that here so she actually just reverted back to spirit form like Archer did. |
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Apocalypse-Ash said: MightyM16 said: Seeing some people hail this as "Tr00 Zero sequel" is hilarious. It's like they forgot that Zero is a prequel and that even in Zero, the Matou thing was a minor subplot related to Kariya compared to Saber's problems (addressed in Fate) and Kiritsugu's dilemma (addressed in UBW). Also, the movie clearly expected the watcher to have AT LEAST watched UBW beforehand. That much is obvious. I think people are calling this the "true sequel" of Fate/Zero based on the tone and atmosphere rather than plot points (and I'm inclined to agree). That's a stupid reasoning, something isn't a "tr00 sequel" of something just because it has a similar tone. Besides all F/SN routes have their own level of darkness and grittiness too. To claim Zero got it's atmosphere from HF alone is wrong. yokushi said: Kiritsugu's hero dilemma is also addressed here though, as Kiritsugu's problem has two sides. Both UBW and HF complete that part of the story. I don't think it addresses as well as UBW does... HF spoiler So I disagree with you here because while all the routes address Kiritsugu's dream differently, UBW does so in the most complete manner. |
| The movie wasn't bad, but I wasn't really that wowed by it either. Still feel they were better off going straight to a tv series instead of trying the movie route. The pacing could be slow at times with UBW, but here it is just moving too quickly. The fights especially feel like someone is in a hurry to just get to the next plot point. It doesn't feel like the fights are going fast because the servants are fast, but just that the story is in a hurry. Decent movie. 3/5, looking forward to how the next one turns out. VarunaBles said: Assassin is not strong. He was just playing his class correctly. Sneaking around and playing dirty. Being an actual assassin. He also uses the Shadow to his benefit, the primary reason for why Lancer and Saber lost. Aside from his gimmicky NP. As for Rider, remember in UBW when she died? She turned into grey dust. She didn't do that here so she actually just reverted back to spirit form like Archer did. I don't feel the movie got that across at all. Lancer vs Assassin was plain odd in how much trouble Lancer was having. Assassin used the shadows once for that dagger attack and that was it. There was no good reason shown why it took Lancer so darn long to chase him down. With the mobility Lancer has, outrunning him for that much time shouldn't have been possible. And then you have Rider going god tier on him in a manner that frankly Lancer should have been. That was a fight where Assassin felt as outclassed as he should have been. Easy enough to mistake Rider's disappearance for death. She wasn't moving and didn't appear to be alive at the time. And she was the first servant 'defeated' at that point in the movie. If you weren't binge watching UBW before watching this then the differences wouldn't have been apparent. |
FlareKnight said: I don't feel the movie got that across at all. Lancer vs Assassin was plain odd in how much trouble Lancer was having. Assassin used the shadows once for that dagger attack and that was it. There was no good reason shown why it took Lancer so darn long to chase him down. With the mobility Lancer has, outrunning him for that much time shouldn't have been possible. And then you have Rider going god tier on him in a manner that frankly Lancer should have been. That was a fight where Assassin felt as outclassed as he should have been. The only thing Lancer had trouble against was the literal chase. Actually fighting Assassin was quite easy. Kicking him around whenever they came into contact and blocking his every attempt at attacking. Now they shouldn't have fought in the city in the first place but ufotable insists on dragging these fights out. Anyways, the final blow was only possible because The Shadow interfered. FlareKnight said: Easy enough to mistake Rider's disappearance for death. She wasn't moving and didn't appear to be alive at the time. And she was the first servant 'defeated' at that point in the movie. If you weren't binge watching UBW before watching this then the differences wouldn't have been apparent. Oddly enough, I distinctly remember Rider's death despite the fact that I never rewatched UBW (except some of the fights) as I thought it was a mediocre adaptation. Archer did the same thing in the previous route. |
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Apocalypse-Ash said: His NP however is a different story and is quite OP. Nope, it really isn't. |
| How does this have over an 8 avg rating... ? Zzzzz Not sure how I stayed awake the whole time Zzzzz What a disappointment Zzzzz |
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Apocalypse-Ash said: MightyM16 said: That's a stupid reasoning, something isn't a "tr00 sequel" of something just because it has a similar tone. Besides all F/SN routes have their own level of darkness and grittiness too. To claim Zero got it's atmosphere from HF alone is wrong. I know what you're getting at mate, but that's just how people see it. Plenty of people who saw Fate/Zero first and then UBW were disappointed that it didn't carry the same grit, maturity, tone, atmosphere etc (I disagree). It also doesn't help that out of all the 3 routes, UBW is the one in which the least amount of plotpoints from Zero carry over and get resolved. Infact UBW is probably the only route that doesn't get spoiled even when you watch Zero first. PS: I loved all 3 routes (and in my opinion, Heaven's Feel was the best of them all) but I know that no single route can be considered a true sequel or anything. All 3 routes should be considered as as part of a whole and must be experienced as such. It's just that HF feels the closest in tone to Zero, that's all. I know what they think and I'm saying that they're wrong. It's stupid to think in that way to begin with considering Zero is a prequel for the three routes as a whole. I disagree with UBW having the least to do with Zero, it's the only route to fully answer Kiritsugu's dilemma which was by far more relevant to Zero's storyline compared to Kariya's subplot. "Maturity" what? That buzzword is only used by secondaries to try describe Zero in a superior manner, it ultimately means nothing. What is mature about a bunch of manchildren fighting for the a farse? The truth is that these kind of people see things in a superficial manner, that's why when they see something "dark" they latch on it as if it shows how mature it is, which is stupid. |
lustinNthrustin said: How does this have over an 8 avg rating... ? Zzzzz Not sure how I stayed awake the whole time Zzzzz What a disappointment Zzzzz Did at least watch at least UBW before watching this? If you felt lost in the movie, it makes sense why you'd find it boring. |
therealstuff said: I remember someone saying you only need to think about the order you want to give or something now i had to go look for it Assassin is not the strongest Servant ever, true, but if he can go in close combat with someone and win, it's against "I lost a melee fight against a human" Caster The weakest summoned servant shouldn't be able to even touch her Rin was underestimated unlike TA Her attack wasn't expected in the least Medea doesn't know that mages can now CQC But a man with a dagger could possibly stab her TA has A AGI, he is ranks above Caster(C rank) in speed. Caster underestimated Rin, and here Caster wasnt so calm because Kuzuki was in the hands of TA, just barely alive. And to be frank, TA has better stats than her when it comes to cqc. Also, in UBW when Rider had pinned Shirou to a tree, she rips off his arm faster than the activation of the seal. So, the part about them activating by thought, must be a bad interpretation by a misleading fan translation. You just have to really mean your order. Look at Shirou at least 2 or 3 times he uses a CS WITHOUT even intending to, without even knowing about them the first time. So the "and it will be activated when you put your mind to using it." part is wrong, at least the way it is translated. |
ssjokgMay 20, 2018 12:29 AM
MightyM16 said: lustinNthrustin said: How does this have over an 8 avg rating... ? Zzzzz Not sure how I stayed awake the whole time Zzzzz What a disappointment Zzzzz Did at least watch at least UBW before watching this? If you felt lost in the movie, it makes sense why you'd find it boring. I saw that years ago, and enjoyed it. |
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lustinNthrustin said: Well this makes no sense.MightyM16 said: Did at least watch at least UBW before watching this? If you felt lost in the movie, it makes sense why you'd find it boring. I saw that years ago, and enjoyed it. |
| Wtf, this was somehow pretty solid, especially compared to UBW which was complete garbage. Definitely feels more of a true "sequel" to F/Z and thats basically what I was waiting for. I like the focus on Sakura/the Matou's in general, that plotline was already intriguing in F/Z but then shafted in UBW. Zouken and True Assassin are also very threatening so far. More Kirei is always great (so thats the popular Mapo tofu scene), he was such a fantastic villian in F/Z but then a bitch in UBW. HF really seems to focus on the more interesting parts (and dump the shitty one's like Caster and her boring master, lol) and it has that dark tone that was missing. This type of dark atmosphere is just much better for a freaking battle royale/war. Shirou is still a meh protagonist but he isn't as obnoxious as in UBW yet. Yuki Kajiura delivered on the soundtrack as expected, thank god she came back for this. 6/10. Is it actually possible that this franchise has something else than F/Z thats worth watching? Guess we will see. |
Aardwolf94May 20, 2018 7:25 PM
Aardwolf94 said: Wtf, this was somehow pretty solid, especially compared to UBW which was complete garbage. Definitely feels more of a true "sequel" to F/Z and thats basically what I was waiting for. Sigh...Except from the introduction of 2 new characters and of the shadow, nothing is different from UBW. Aardwolf94 said: I like the focus on Sakura/the Matou's in general, that plotline was already intriguing in F/Z but then shafted in UBW. Zouken and True Assassin are also very threatening so far. Are you implying that it wasnt shafted in FZ? Kariya had the second least screentime in the whole show.Zouken had even less screentime than him and Sakura. Literally the least important subplot.That didnt lead anywhere too. Aardwolf94 said: More Kirei is always great (so thats the popular Mapo tofu scene), he was such a fantastic villian in F/Z but then a bitch in UBW. HF really seems to focus on the more interesting parts (and dump the shitty one's like Caster and her boring master, lol) and it has that dark tone that was missing. This type of dark atmosphere is just much better for a freaking battle royale/war. He was a bitch in UBW?How?Because he was killed by a Servant?With the exception of the Shadow UBW wa sjust as dark with the entire school body being a target for Shinji and Caster targeting the whole city.And the only reason FZ was "dark" is because it had Caster killing kids for no reason except for some laughs,it was irrelevant to the war.What part of the actual war was dark?People trying to kill each other?Like in UBW? Aardwolf94 said: Shirou is still a meh protagonist but he isn't as obnoxious as in UBW yet. Shirou is still the same as he was in UBW at this point so, no idea what this all means.Either you didnt pay attention to UBW or Shirou just isnt edgy enough for you so the "dark tone" makes you see things. . Aardwolf94 said: Yuki Kajiura delivered on the soundtrack as expected, thank god she came back for this. Well cant disagree Aardwolf94 said: 6/10. Is it actually possible that this franchise has something else than F/Z thats worth watching? Guess we will see. Considering that the majority of people who first watch FZ and thing it is a "mature masterpiece" when half of the shit that happens there "happen just because" is beyond me. So? therealstuff said: caster’s agility doesn't matter she can teleport almost instantaneously she was only desperate and would be alert at a now released dangerous servant in her territory Well she couldnt tell that Archer was inside the temple and just barely avoided his normal arrows. therealstuff said: she was looking at and speaking to TA after release Yes because Kuzuki was still in his hands. therealstuff said: she could react just fine to saber attacking out of nowhere when she was in shock at the original scene "Out of nowhere"? therealstuff said: top agility=/=being able to stab all servants before they could react Em, says who? therealstuff said: caster can react to danger the same way any other servant would she isnt weak enough to be beaten by just anyone who tries to cqc Well she was beaten by a reinforced Rin who definitely doesnt reach Saber levels of STR.Doesnt matter that she was "surprised".The fact that she was beaten back and even injured means that a Servant with better stats can do much more damage than Rin. |
| @ssjokg i meant TA being released from caster’s command and thats an impressive dodge from caster i didn’t say she wasn’t speaking to TA because of kuzuki i didn’t mean that caster can cqc i meant that she can react to/escape from servants who try to cqc |
therealstuff said: @ssjokg i meant TA being released from caster’s command and thats an impressive dodge from caster i didn’t say she wasn’t speaking to TA because of kuzuki i didn’t mean that caster can cqc i meant that she can react to/escape from servants who try to cqc >i meant TA being released from caster’s command and thats an impressive dodge from caster i didn’t say she wasn’t speaking to TA because of kuzuki I dont know what this refers to. First of all Saber has lower AGI than TA.In fact she has the same as Caster. Second of all, yes Caster dodged one attack.Doesnt mean she will always manage.Shirou defeated Gil, doesnt mean it will always happen.Saber avoided Gae bolg, doesnt mean it will always happen. My point is that it isnt BS that TA managed to take her out in a single hit. |
| i for one quite liked the movie or more precisely this route. the UBW adaptation was good particularly the first season however the second season was a huge let down this is because shirou as a character became unbearable to watch with him spouting nonsense such as becoming hero of justice dont get me wrong he does the same in this movie too but thankfully to a less of an extent this shirou here is much more better and is at least aware of consequences rather than diving head first towards certain death all in all this movie was good with shirou being less of an ass fate stay night is a masterpiece of a series which is clogged down by our said protagonist shirou no wonder why fate zero was much better |
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Trump_Card said: this shirou here is much more better and is at least aware of consequences rather than diving head first towards certain death He says, after Shirou pushes Saber away and takes Herc's axesword to the stomach, resulting in his insides smearing the streets. And then when a fan says "did we watch the same thing," people cry in shock and agony at the injustice. Oh how dare thee, Type Lunatic of porn games. |
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| The movie was decent, so many people liked it, but other than beatiful animated fights nothing really that amazing. The story felt so rushed, some scenes and dialogues just were so out of place and i watched all(i assume so) the previous seasons. Don't think that it was a matter of rewatching and if it is novel/game explanations that is not right and pretty bad. Sakura seeing Shiro wounded and Saber supporting him and giving her "blaming" face, it felt really out of nowhere and without buildup ... Started watching and didn't expect a recap in some way, but then just a skip of summoning. Felt a bit weird how it was shown and connected. The new stuff and fights were obv interesting. The balance or how some characters just do whatever they want was always the strangest thing for fate world and it was even more clear with recent apocrypha. Overall 6/10, don't know if i should be hyped for 2nd movie, but will watch it. |
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Trump_Card said: i for one quite liked the movie or more precisely this route. the UBW adaptation was good particularly the first season however the second season was a huge let down this is because shirou as a character became unbearable to watch with him spouting nonsense such as becoming hero of justice I dont get it.Two Servants spouting nonsense about chivalry on the battlefield is considered good writing but a half baked mage trying to become someone that helps others is bad?Especially considering his past? Trump_Card said: dont get me wrong he does the same in this movie too but thankfully to a less of an extent this shirou here is much more better and is at least aware of consequences rather than diving head first towards certain death Did we watch the same movie? Trump_Card said: all in all this movie was good with shirou being less of an ass fate stay night is a masterpiece of a series which is clogged down by our said protagonist shirou no wonder why fate zero was much better What even happened to the definition of ass**? FZ where MORE, irrelevant to the war, shit are happening is better? Sure, I mean I too like to hear "Chivarly and muh honor!!!" 10 times every time Lancer and Saber are on screen./sarc For Fucks sake people.Urobuchi wrote Saber to be in FZ just like Shirou is in FSN.Yet she is a great character in a great series? |
Trump_Card said: i for one quite liked the movie or more precisely this route. the UBW adaptation was good particularly the first season however the second season was a huge let down this is because shirou as a character became unbearable to watch with him spouting nonsense such as becoming hero of justice dont get me wrong he does the same in this movie too but thankfully to a less of an extent this shirou here is much more better and is at least aware of consequences rather than diving head first towards certain death all in all this movie was good with shirou being less of an ass fate stay night is a masterpiece of a series which is clogged down by our said protagonist shirou no wonder why fate zero was much better True, Shirou was an obnoxious shit in the UBW anime. He seems less dumber here but he is still the weak link imho. HF is good so far despite his bs, not because of him. F/Z is obviously much better, Kiritsugu is actually an interesting protagonist. Not to mention it focused on everyone so you could pick your "team". With F/SN Shirou is forced on you. |
Aardwolf94 said: I'm almost tempted to give you a cookie. You were just 2 short of a bingo tho and I'm kinda low on cookies.Trump_Card said: i for one quite liked the movie or more precisely this route. the UBW adaptation was good particularly the first season however the second season was a huge let down this is because shirou as a character became unbearable to watch with him spouting nonsense such as becoming hero of justice dont get me wrong he does the same in this movie too but thankfully to a less of an extent this shirou here is much more better and is at least aware of consequences rather than diving head first towards certain death all in all this movie was good with shirou being less of an ass fate stay night is a masterpiece of a series which is clogged down by our said protagonist shirou no wonder why fate zero was much better True, Shirou was an obnoxious shit in the UBW anime. He seems less dumber here but he is still the weak link imho. HF is good so far despite his bs, not because of him. F/Z is obviously much better, Kiritsugu is actually an interesting protagonist. Not to mention it focused on everyone so you could pick your "team". With F/SN Shirou is forced on you. But here, have a knight in a car, because why wouldn't you want one: Suck it, Artoria. You can't be half as cool as this guy, living the dream and stuff. |
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Botato said: Aardwolf94 said: I'm almost tempted to give you a cookie. You were just 2 short of a bingo tho and I'm kinda low on cookies.True, Shirou was an obnoxious shit in the UBW anime. He seems less dumber here but he is still the weak link imho. HF is good so far despite his bs, not because of him. F/Z is obviously much better, Kiritsugu is actually an interesting protagonist. Not to mention it focused on everyone so you could pick your "team". With F/SN Shirou is forced on you. But here, have a knight in a car, because why wouldn't you want one: Suck it, Artoria. You can't be half as cool as this guy, living the dream and stuff. Lol I think I already saw that bingo once..man F/SN fans are really tired of "secondaries" right? |
ssjokg said: Aardwolf94 said: Wtf, this was somehow pretty solid, especially compared to UBW which was complete garbage. Definitely feels more of a true "sequel" to F/Z and thats basically what I was waiting for. Sigh...Except from the introduction of 2 new characters and of the shadow, nothing is different from UBW. Aardwolf94 said: I like the focus on Sakura/the Matou's in general, that plotline was already intriguing in F/Z but then shafted in UBW. Zouken and True Assassin are also very threatening so far. Are you implying that it wasnt shafted in FZ? Kariya had the second least screentime in the whole show.Zouken had even less screentime than him and Sakura. Literally the least important subplot.That didnt lead anywhere too. Aardwolf94 said: More Kirei is always great (so thats the popular Mapo tofu scene), he was such a fantastic villian in F/Z but then a bitch in UBW. HF really seems to focus on the more interesting parts (and dump the shitty one's like Caster and her boring master, lol) and it has that dark tone that was missing. This type of dark atmosphere is just much better for a freaking battle royale/war. He was a bitch in UBW?How?Because he was killed by a Servant?With the exception of the Shadow UBW wa sjust as dark with the entire school body being a target for Shinji and Caster targeting the whole city.And the only reason FZ was "dark" is because it had Caster killing kids for no reason except for some laughs,it was irrelevant to the war.What part of the actual war was dark?People trying to kill each other?Like in UBW? Aardwolf94 said: Shirou is still a meh protagonist but he isn't as obnoxious as in UBW yet. Shirou is still the same as he was in UBW at this point so, no idea what this all means.Either you didnt pay attention to UBW or Shirou just isnt edgy enough for you so the "dark tone" makes you see things. . Aardwolf94 said: Yuki Kajiura delivered on the soundtrack as expected, thank god she came back for this. Well cant disagree Aardwolf94 said: 6/10. Is it actually possible that this franchise has something else than F/Z thats worth watching? Guess we will see. Considering that the majority of people who first watch FZ and thing it is a "mature masterpiece" when half of the shit that happens there "happen just because" is beyond me. So? therealstuff said: caster’s agility doesn't matter she can teleport almost instantaneously she was only desperate and would be alert at a now released dangerous servant in her territory Well she couldnt tell that Archer was inside the temple and just barely avoided his normal arrows. therealstuff said: she was looking at and speaking to TA after release Yes because Kuzuki was still in his hands. therealstuff said: she could react just fine to saber attacking out of nowhere when she was in shock at the original scene "Out of nowhere"? therealstuff said: top agility=/=being able to stab all servants before they could react Em, says who? therealstuff said: caster can react to danger the same way any other servant would she isnt weak enough to be beaten by just anyone who tries to cqc Well she was beaten by a reinforced Rin who definitely doesnt reach Saber levels of STR.Doesnt matter that she was "surprised".The fact that she was beaten back and even injured means that a Servant with better stats can do much more damage than Rin. Dude we already discussed this before in detail, I think its best to stop before things get messy again. You can't seem to comprehend why people dislike UBW and Shirou and prefer F/Z and have to dumb down the latter to make some bullshit point (you did it before and are doing it again). Lol. Just accept people having different opinions and lets move on. |
| Shirou is by far the most interesting Fate character. Too bad you'll never know this watching the anime adaptations. Kiritsugu is literally Jack Bauer crossed with Batman. He's only interesting if you think crossing those archtypes is anywhere near deep or as complex as the character study in heroism that is Shirou. Kiritsugu is a good character, but people talk about him like he's the best character in Fate, a franchise that has Shirou, Kirei, Gilgamesh, Medea, Rin and Sakura. |
astroprogs said: And like... Why are we still saying this even. It should be clear by now from the past 4 years that anyone mildly interested in the franchise or had their curiousity poked even a tiny bit by all these claims would have attempted to read the VN by now. Just let it go and be zen, it'll lower your blood pressure.Shirou is by far the most interesting Fate character. Too bad you'll never know this watching the anime adaptations. I tested it myself ヽ(´ー｀)ﾉ |
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Botato said: astroprogs said: And like... Why are we still saying this even. It should be clear by now from the past 4 years that anyone mildly interested in the franchise or had their curiousity poked even a tiny bit by all these claims would have attempted to read the VN by now. Just let it go and be zen, it'll lower your blood pressure.Shirou is by far the most interesting Fate character. Too bad you'll never know this watching the anime adaptations. I tested it myself ヽ(´ー｀)ﾉ Reading a VN is a hurdle for a lot of people, even for those who are very interested in Fate. I blame the adaptations for not exploring the characters as they're meant to. For example, Kirei's character arc in Zero is written to mirror Shirou's in F/SN. They're both mentally ill individuals with no concept of a moral compass and get no gratification from doing what normal people do. They start their journey lost, searching to find and understand themselves and end it with the a newly found belief, motivation and way of life, albeit being a mirror reflection of each other. You'll never get that feeling from UBW. This is why it's a failure on the anime's part, as I see it. Seriously, between Kirei and Shirou, Kiritsugu is very flat in comparison, but that's the difference competent direction makes between Zero and UBW. |
astroprogs said: Shirou is by far the most interesting Fate character. Too bad you'll never know this watching the anime adaptations. Kiritsugu is literally Jack Bauer crossed with Batman. He's only interesting if you think crossing those archtypes is anywhere near deep or as complex as the character study in heroism that is Shirou. Kiritsugu is a good character, but people talk about him like he's the best character in Fate, a franchise that has Shirou, Kirei, Gilgamesh, Medea, Rin and Sakura. Well the anime has to stand on its own and Shirou doesn't come close to Kiritsugu here (if anything he sucks at least so far). I mean I don't have to read the LN to get Kiritsugu so it should be the same for Shirou and the VN. Thats actually a good description of Kiritsugu lol. No wonder I like him, I'm a fan of Batman and Jack Bauer too. Shirou just felt generic in comparison and his preaching got old real fast. Kirei and Gilgamesh are almost as great as Kiritsugu but they really didn't shine in Fate & UBW at all and felt more generic evil. Rin is basically a generic tsundere but Sakura is interesting so far |
Aardwolf94 said: astroprogs said: Shirou is by far the most interesting Fate character. Too bad you'll never know this watching the anime adaptations. Kiritsugu is literally Jack Bauer crossed with Batman. He's only interesting if you think crossing those archtypes is anywhere near deep or as complex as the character study in heroism that is Shirou. Kiritsugu is a good character, but people talk about him like he's the best character in Fate, a franchise that has Shirou, Kirei, Gilgamesh, Medea, Rin and Sakura. Well the anime has to stand on its own and Shirou doesn't come close to Kiritsugu here (if anything he sucks at least so far). I mean I don't have to read the LN to get Kiritsugu so it should be the same for Shirou and the VN. Thats actually a good description of Kiritsugu lol. No wonder I like him, I'm a fan of Batman and Jack Bauer too. Shirou just felt generic in comparison Kirei and Gilgamesh are almost as great as Kiritsugu but they really didn't shine in Fate & UBW at all and felt more generic evil. Rin is basically a generic tsundere but Sakura is interesting. Well, as I said, that's a failure on the UBW adaptation part. It couldn't make Shirou interesting, when he's literally the source for both Kirei and Kiritsugu's characterization. Heck, even Saber was written to be almost a copy of Shirou, when it comes to actions and ideals. And look how the reception for Shirou differs from all these characters. Kirei is the negative mirror of Shirou, while Kiritsugu is a retread of Archer. Shirou had everything going for him in the VN to be an amazing character if adapted correctly, and yet the anime squandered it. Hopefully HF doesn't do the same. Rin's "Mage" vs "Good person" persona is one of the most intriguing dilemmas and character exploration in Fate, and it should shine the most in HF. Rin showing different facets of herself around Shirou was also supposed to be big character defining moments for her and it what makes her change in the final moments of UBW where she acts on Shirou's ideals very heavy, which it wasn't in the anime and came and went without the regard it should've had for the deuteragonist of the route. Rin's characterization was kinda shit in the show. I can forgive it if they did it better in HF, where it's meant to show the most. Heck, Rin is FAR more interesting than Sakura, when you lay the both of them flat and examine what makes them tick. |
astroprogsMay 21, 2018 1:45 PM
Aardwolf94 said: I see that comprehension is still a thing "secondaries" lack. ssjokg said: Sigh...Except from the introduction of 2 new characters and of the shadow, nothing is different from UBW. Are you implying that it wasnt shafted in FZ? Kariya had the second least screentime in the whole show.Zouken had even less screentime than him and Sakura. Literally the least important subplot.That didnt lead anywhere too. He was a bitch in UBW?How?Because he was killed by a Servant?With the exception of the Shadow UBW wa sjust as dark with the entire school body being a target for Shinji and Caster targeting the whole city.And the only reason FZ was "dark" is because it had Caster killing kids for no reason except for some laughs,it was irrelevant to the war.What part of the actual war was dark?People trying to kill each other?Like in UBW? Shirou is still the same as he was in UBW at this point so, no idea what this all means.Either you didnt pay attention to UBW or Shirou just isnt edgy enough for you so the "dark tone" makes you see things. . Well cant disagree Considering that the majority of people who first watch FZ and thing it is a "mature masterpiece" when half of the shit that happens there "happen just because" is beyond me. So? Well she couldnt tell that Archer was inside the temple and just barely avoided his normal arrows. Yes because Kuzuki was still in his hands. "Out of nowhere"? Em, says who? Well she was beaten by a reinforced Rin who definitely doesnt reach Saber levels of STR.Doesnt matter that she was "surprised".The fact that she was beaten back and even injured means that a Servant with better stats can do much more damage than Rin. Dude we already discussed this before in detail, I think its best to stop before things get messy again. You can't seem to comprehend why people dislike UBW and Shirou and prefer F/Z and have to dumb down the latter to make some bullshit point (you did it before and are doing it again). Lol. Just accept people having different opinions and lets move on. |
astroprogs said: Aardwolf94 said: Well the anime has to stand on its own and Shirou doesn't come close to Kiritsugu here (if anything he sucks at least so far). I mean I don't have to read the LN to get Kiritsugu so it should be the same for Shirou and the VN. Thats actually a good description of Kiritsugu lol. No wonder I like him, I'm a fan of Batman and Jack Bauer too. Shirou just felt generic in comparison Kirei and Gilgamesh are almost as great as Kiritsugu but they really didn't shine in Fate & UBW at all and felt more generic evil. Rin is basically a generic tsundere but Sakura is interesting. Well, as I said, that's a failure on the UBW adaptation part. It couldn't make Shirou interesting, when he's literally the source for both Kirei and Kiritsugu's characterization. Heck, even Saber was written to be almost a copy of Shirou, when it comes to actions and ideals. And look how the reception for Shirou differs from all these characters. Kirei is the negative mirror of Shirou, while Kiritsugu is a retread of Archer. Shirou had everything going for him in the VN to be an amazing character if adapted correctly, and yet the anime squandered it. Hopefully HF doesn't do the same. The anime didnt do Shirou a 100% justice but it still manage dto convey the core parts. The fire, kiritusgu and how he views this ideal. There is no reason to treat him like he is your typical MC that wants world peace just because. Uninteresting is one thing but people's opinions are the opposite of what the anime showed.It reaches the point of twisting what was said in the anime simply because Shirou isnt his dad. |
ssjokg said: The anime didnt do Shirou a 100% justice but it still manage dto convey the core parts. The fire, kiritusgu and how he views this ideal. There is no reason to treat him like he is your typical MC that wants world peace just because. Uninteresting is one thing but people's opinions are the opposite of what the anime showed.It reaches the point of twisting what was said in the anime simply because Shirou isnt his dad. It *tries* to convey the core parts. It wasn't enough. All while acting clever, like it somehow managed it by the end. Are some people really harsh on Shirou? Sure. Is it all unwarranted? I don't think so. Shirou wants to do good things because it's the literally the only way his psyche can excuse his existence, why he was let to live. He's unable to feel happiness and only wants to reenact that scene with Kiritsugu smiling over his half-dead corpse, because, while he can't ever feel it himself, that's how he can make his dead self burned in the fire feel happiness, maybe. He's so broken, he's like a machine moving with the sole objective of reenacting that moment in the fire in vein attempt to feel happiness he's never been able to feel again in all ten years after he survived. Ten years of almost being all dead inside. This is the crux of Shirou's character, explored in his inner monologues throughout UBW. Was this even remotely communicated well in the show beyond Shirou looking creepily 3 times to the screen? |
astroprogsMay 21, 2018 2:01 PM
astroprogs said: Yes with Answer being the culmination of this characterization.ssjokg said: The anime didnt do Shirou a 100% justice but it still manage dto convey the core parts. The fire, kiritusgu and how he views this ideal. There is no reason to treat him like he is your typical MC that wants world peace just because. Uninteresting is one thing but people's opinions are the opposite of what the anime showed.It reaches the point of twisting what was said in the anime simply because Shirou isnt his dad. It *tries* to convey the core parts. It wasn't enough. All while acting clever, like it somehow managed it by the end. Are some people really harsh on Shirou? Sure. Is it all unwarranted? I don't think so. Shirou wants to do good things because it's the literally the only way his psyche can excuse his existence, why he was let to live. He's unable to feel happiness and only wants to reenact that scene with Kiritsugu smiling over his half-dead corpse, because, while he can't ever feel it himself, that's how he can make his dead self burned in the fire feel happiness, maybe. He's so broken, he's like a machine moving with the sole objective of reenacting that moment in the fire in vein attempt to feel happiness he's never been able to feel again in all ten years after he survived. Ten years of almost being all dead inside. This is the crux of Shirou's character, explored in his inner monologues throughout UBW. Was this even remotely communicated well in the show beyond Shirou looking creepily 3 times to the screen? |
ssjokg said: astroprogs said: Yes with Answer being the culmination of this characterization.It *tries* to convey the core parts. It wasn't enough. All while acting clever, like it somehow managed it by the end. Are some people really harsh on Shirou? Sure. Is it all unwarranted? I don't think so. Shirou wants to do good things because it's the literally the only way his psyche can excuse his existence, why he was let to live. He's unable to feel happiness and only wants to reenact that scene with Kiritsugu smiling over his half-dead corpse, because, while he can't ever feel it himself, that's how he can make his dead self burned in the fire feel happiness, maybe. He's so broken, he's like a machine moving with the sole objective of reenacting that moment in the fire in vein attempt to feel happiness he's never been able to feel again in all ten years after he survived. Ten years of almost being all dead inside. This is the crux of Shirou's character, explored in his inner monologues throughout UBW. Was this even remotely communicated well in the show beyond Shirou looking creepily 3 times to the screen? The culmination is a bunch of bullshit if you don't understand where he and Archer are coming from, though. It boils down to being stubborn if you can't realize that this is Shirou finally finding a value for his empty self. You don't really see this empty self much throughout the show. He just says that he want to be a hero and nobody can say he can't if he believes in it hard enough, when it's actually him pushing that idea (that he knows it describes him perfectly) away from his head because if he can't be that thing Kiritsugu showed him to be "happiness" he may as well have died in that fire right then and there. It never came out like his actual self and life's worth was hanging in the balance in the Archer fight. It came out as "You're an idiot, stahp" and "no u imma do it anyway cause i like it, U DUNNO ME MAN!". |
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