TiaDee said: @xEmptiness Well I was certain of that as well when first reading the synopsis but then the first episode made a good case of trying to prove me wrong by presenting us a mc that actually develops over the course of two episodes and then starting 3rd episode they dropped his story completely (I got that they just wanted to present different views on nationalism during ww2 in Japan, but why bother developing his character then? They could have just used him as a medium to convey the message, nothing more, nothing less; not that I'm complaining since they did a good job developing him, but it just seemed all for naught in the end). After episode three I thought it's going to be half-episodic with 2-3 spies involved in small 2-3 episode arcs, but it just looked like the anime didn't know what it wanted to be: a central story anime (first 2 episodes), half-episodic with small arcs (Wind Agency episodes) or completely episodic. It left a bad taste in my mouth at the end and despite the appreciation I have for this anime I just feel that its inconsistency and indecisiveness greatly damaged my enjoyment for this series. That variation in style is one of the many reasons why I loved it lol. You say they could have used him to convey the message, didn't they do exactly that? What other way can you imagine they could've done it. The problem here seems to be with the fact that they essentially showed you the scenario from Sakuma's point of view. But doesn't that further support Joker Game in that the entire show was delivered through 'perspectives' regardless of the overarching format? |
| I prefer an overarching story, but sometimes episodic can work. Most slice of life are just episodics, and can be pretty fun to watch. |
| Nah it isn't a flaw and you will find that most episodic anime actually have an overarching plot to them as well. Take Hellgirl for example and Space Dandy did this as well. Even if it didn't have an overarching plot to them and it was just strictly episodic in nature, then all you do is just enjoy it for what it is. There are still many good episodic anime out there like Cowboy Bebop, Mushishi, etc. |
TiaDee said: xEmptiness said: That variation in style is one of the many reasons why I loved it lol. You say they could have used him to convey the message, didn't they do exactly that? What other way can you imagine they could've done it. The problem here seems to be with the fact that they essentially showed you the scenario from Sakuma's point of view. But doesn't that further support Joker Game in that the entire show was delivered through 'perspectives' regardless of the overarching format? Didn't say they could, said they did, just mentioned that they could have used him just for that, just as a medium, not a character that undergoes a ideological inner conflict. Also there's one thing to present different perspectives (like episodic anime usually do, like that's their trademark basically) and another thing to attempt different narrative styles (which can be confusing and messy if not done right, JG's case imo) like I told you, central plot -> fully episodic plot ->half episodic plot -> back to episodic plot like JG did. It's basically Stray Dogs' case that started as a supernatural mistery show, only to turn into a detective show for a few episodes and then attempt a thriller with the mafia arc and in the end it only managed to do all those things half-assedly instead of doing one thing right. If even variation in style had to be done according to a pattern to you, then it's really just the problem of the viewership rather than the show. JG promised only one thing: Spy stuff. And it did that top-notch in every episode. If you, instead of taking the show as it were, wanted it to be a certain way, then what's really the point here? |
| No just look at Natsume Yuujinchou. |
TiaDee said: xEmptiness said: If even variation in style had to be done according to a pattern to you, then it's really just the problem of the viewership rather than the show. JG promised only one thing: Spy stuff. And it did that top-notch in every episode. If you, instead of taking the show as it were, wanted it to be a certain way, then what's really the point here? I doesn't have to be done according to a pattern, it just has to be done right (by whichever mean, pattern or no pattern). Frankly I don't know what's the point of this debate (if you can call it that), it started as a casual discussion about my view and enjoyment on the show (and I was hoping I would get your view on the show since you mentioned you liked it a lot) don't know why you had to turn it into a pissing contest. You might want to learn how to differentiate between an attack on the argument and an attack on the person. |
TiaDee said: xEmptiness said: You might want to learn how to differentiate between an attack on the argument and an attack on the person. You gotta be shitting me if you truly believe I 'attacked your person' any way shape or form during this discussion. I was actually telling you that I didn't attack your person even once as you believe I did. I was only attacking your arguments. |
TiaDee said: xEmptiness said: I was actually telling you that I didn't attack your person even once as you believe I did. I was only attacking your arguments. I wasn't even implying that, I just said that I was hoping for a casual discussion on a anime we both enjoy, but instead you took it upon yourself to only attack my arguments without bringing anything new to the discussion yourself, 10 replies later and I'm not even sure if you enjoy the show, much less what you enjoyed/didn't enjoy about it and what you think about the parts I enjoyed/didn't enjoy. As I said, pissing contest (which wasn't my intention because I'm too old for this stuff). Then why are you calling it a pissing contest? Casual discussion about something which we disagree upon? Impossible. I was merely refuting your points. Showing you the bias in your standing and the weakness of your perspective. If you could watch this show without having been tainted by the curse of 'expectations', you could have enjoyed it too. And if you look back, I basically told you that everything you didn't enjoy about the show is everything I like about it. Simple. |
TiaDee said: xEmptiness said: Then why are you calling it a pissing contest? Casual discussion about something which we disagree upon? Impossible. I was merely refuting your points. Showing you the bias in your standing and the weakness of your perspective. If you could watch this show without having been tainted by the curse of 'expectations', you could have enjoyed it too. And if you look back, I basically told you that everything you didn't enjoy about the show is everything I like about it. Simple. (we agree on liking the show, we just disagree on with parts we enjoy/didn't enjoy which is natural since enjoyment is subjective, it would have been interesting to see a different perspective on the show, different things enjoyed by different people, but oh well, maybe other time, maybe other fan). Well then since you know my view on the show and I know yours shall we stop this casual discussion? Why do you seem so hurt though? Did I, like, poke a knife to your side or something? |
TiaDee said: xEmptiness said: Why do you seem so hurt though? Did I, like, poke a knife to your side or something? *Sigh* Oh god, not the old "But did I get under your skin though?" retort (please stay classy), I already told you I'm too old for this stuff. You mentioned that the point of our discussion was to figure out each other views on the show, which we did, mission accomplished! So unless you still have something you wish to discuss with me I see no point in continuing. If you're really that old, then you should've never seen this discussion (?) as a pissing contest. |
TiaDee said: xEmptiness said: If you're really that old, then you should've never seen this discussion (?) as a pissing contest. Haha, is that what you wish to discuss, my age? I'm flattered, but I find my personna to make for a dull conversation topic, anime is much more interesting in that regard. To be precise, your persona is what you show so it's apparent. |
8oomer said: CapitalistGod said: Totally opposite experience for me.Aria is episodic. It's one of my favorites Cowboy Bebop is episodic. It's on my drop list. What separates the two is the question: "Is there any reason for me to finish this series?" I answered yes to the former since it's therapeutic and knows what it wants to do while I answered no to the latter since I really can't see any reason to continue(there's no point to it). Cowboy Bebop in my top 20. Aria series I barely got through and even Origination barely got a 7 score from me. The only reason I kept watching Aria was the hype for Origination (which turned out to be less enjoyable than any season of K-On). Every episode of Bebop was a bit different and the characters were unique. Aria's characters were interchangeable -- even their names all began with the letter "a" ffs. Every episode was about rowing boats and visiting St. Mark's Square for the 40th time. Yawn. On topic, I prefer anime with a start to finish plot narrative or, failing that, mini-arcs of 2-4 episodes. What it tried to do didn't really appeal to your emotions then.... I feel sorry. |
xEmptiness said: That way of conversation is all I needed to know who you are.What do you think? If you can make the distinction, it doesn't matter. If you cannot, it matters even less that not mattering. |
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| Stories being episodic but still being hella fun is a testament on how good does the author write characters and their chemistry. Let's be honest, there are shows out there where even just the character/s appearing MAKES the story. Characters that are so likable even if they are on the bad side (Lupin, to name one) or give such a presence that will make you say "Hey, that episode didn't even do anything for the plot but I'll be damned if it weren't awesome." |
CludensyoJul 9, 2016 10:05 PM
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| Well a show needs to have something to keep its viewers interested in watching more. So if a show doesn’t have a big intriguing story then it simply needs to have something else. Like being able to tell an interesting short story in just 1 episode or having some nice comedy or having characters who’re simply enjoyable to watch, doesn’t really matter what they do. So if an episodic anime fails for me it’s not just because it doesn’t have a big overarching story, but because it doesn’t have anything interesting in general. |
AzureDaora said: xEmptiness said: That way of conversation is all I needed to know who you are.What do you think? If you can make the distinction, it doesn't matter. If you cannot, it matters even less that not mattering. There are quite a few people who converse that way. Mind clearing my confusion here? |
xEmptiness said: Not here they don't. You're definitely Bern.AzureDaora said: That way of conversation is all I needed to know who you are. There are quite a few people who converse that way. Mind clearing my confusion here? That "vagueness" and questioning in your talking is something I'm accustomed from seeing your threads and replies. |
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| It doesn't have to. There are enough good animes or whatever with no relation between eps (maybe just the first) |
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Dopu said: Well a show needs to have something to keep its viewers interested in watching more. So if a show doesn’t have a big intriguing story then it simply needs to have something else. Like being able to tell an interesting short story in just 1 episode or having some nice comedy or having characters who’re simply enjoyable to watch, doesn’t really matter what they do. So if an episodic anime fails for me it’s not just because it doesn’t have a big overarching story, but because it doesn’t have anything interesting in general. You can look at an episodic anime like a collection of short stories. It may not have something big to connect it all, but the little stories need to stand on their own. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| It depends on what kind of story/anime the anime aims to be. There are many ways of storytelling and there many kinds of stories (ex. There are those that follow a tight plot (SnK), there are those that are more about character exposition through their adventures and hence are like snapshots (episodic) but everything is towards an aim (ex. Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo), there are those that are episodic but no particular aim in mind (ex. Doraemon). For me, it is good if the anime has chosen the kind of storytelling that best fits its purposes and best expresses what the story is all about. |
蒼穹を舞う。  |
| I love episodic anime. Mushishi, Natsume Yuujinchou, Kino no Tabi, Jigoku Shoujo and so on. Some have their flaws, some don't, I however love the mini stories in each episode. But what I dislike is when they try to shove in a bit of story like they did with Jigoku Shoujo, kinda destroyed it for me. tl;dr It's not a flaw imo. |
| Do not let yourself be blinded by fear or anger. Everything is only as it is. |
| Most of the time, yes. I feel episodic anime are boring. |
| When I glimpsed at this title, I thought you were referring to the episodic nature of anime in general that is being released weekly as opposed to a long movie. |
| I don't think it's a flaw, it just makes the anime take longer to finish for me, since I don't have any plot to make me watch the next episode. It's taking me ages to get through early Gintama/Rurouni Kenshin episodes because they're so episodic. I'll have to plan a marathon at this point. |
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| Well it has it's pros and cons in much the same way an anime with a huge overarching plot does. Episodic anime are probably easier to tune into if you're watching whislt it's airing, you're busy and/or are watching multiple anime at the same time. It'll also probably keep your attention more since it's less likely to be going at a grueling slow pace. All plot heavy stories- even good ones- can drag a little at some point & a lot of the time it's due to exposition! At the same time though, episodes are usually hit or miss in nature & characters might not get all that much development since there will likely be a dispensible cast of non-reocurring characters (kinda like in Jigoku Shoujo). With such a huge cast of characters and no situational development for them, the main characters might not feel developed either. I don't think it can really be considered a flaw though...it just depends on what sort of anime you're looking for at the time. Jigoku Shoujo, Hetalia & Danshi Koukousei no Nichijou are episodic ones I thought were really great. Then there's Gintama which is basically the king of episodic anime- it's pretty genius to be able to keep that mainly episodic nature going for hundreds of episodes and still make it feel fresh & new. It deserves as much credit as intricate plot heavy anime imo. Although I guess that little bit of plot thrown into Gintama now and again keeps the ball rolling! |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| It's good and bad, a double edged sword if you will. |
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| Being episodic isn't by itself a good or bad thing--what matters is whether the writing can support it. Cowboy Bebop is an example of episodic anime done right, as most of its episodes are largely unrelated to the plot at large, but here and there we'll get a hint or some insight into the narrative, something more subtle than just having a book full of plot thrown at you all at once. Whereas Noir is an example of episodic anime done wrong, since its overarching plot gets shoved into our faces all at once in the last 8 episodes after we suffered through 18 slow, boring, tedious, pointless essentially-filler episodes. (Granted, when Noir finally got its plot going, it got awesome real fast, but it doesn't stop the fact that 2/3 of the series still really sucks.) |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
| nope, don't really care about story, story is just a bonus for me |
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| Depends on how its being laid out.For me some If not done right really gets me bored . |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| For me it's the fact that episodic anime still have the ability to give a overall message to it's viewers. As you have already mentioned death parade and mushishi - these two are very deep shows that tackle on some different questions about interpersonal relations. So as long as an anime has a profound storytelling it's the only thing that matters for me to enjoy it (most of the time). |
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Strawberrycake48 said: Well it has it's pros and cons in much the same way an anime with a huge overarching plot does. Episodic anime are probably easier to tune into if you're watching whislt it's airing, you're busy and/or are watching multiple anime at the same time. It'll also probably keep your attention more since it's less likely to be going at a grueling slow pace. All plot heavy stories- even good ones- can drag a little at some point & a lot of the time it's due to exposition! At the same time though, episodes are usually hit or miss in nature & characters might not get all that much development since there will likely be a dispensible cast of non-reocurring characters (kinda like in Jigoku Shoujo). With such a huge cast of characters and no situational development for them, the main characters might not feel developed either. I don't think it can really be considered a flaw though...it just depends on what sort of anime you're looking for at the time. Jigoku Shoujo, Hetalia & Danshi Koukousei no Nichijou are episodic ones I thought were really great. Then there's Gintama which is basically the king of episodic anime- it's pretty genius to be able to keep that mainly episodic nature going for hundreds of episodes and still make it feel fresh & new. It deserves as much credit as intricate plot heavy anime imo. Although I guess that little bit of plot thrown into Gintama now and again keeps the ball rolling! Episodic can be great in developing MC's. The episodic nature allows you to throw the characters into a hundred different situations and show how they react to it. WataMote is a great example of how to do this. Azumanga, too. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| as long as they do it right.. and its entertaining .. ..and they manage to pull off a decent ending plot or somthing that happend in previous episodes..... its not like being episodic ..is a crime yeah ..i like space dandy.. and its episodic |
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| Not necessarily. It would depend on a number of factors you'd have to take into account. I'd say if the writing and storytelling were done right, it doesn't matter if it was episodic. |
 "Out of the night that conquers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul."  |
Rorrun said: I love episodic anime. Mushishi, Natsume Yuujinchou, Kino no Tabi, Jigoku Shoujo and so on. Some have their flaws, some don't, I however love the mini stories in each episode. But what I dislike is when they try to shove in a bit of story like they did with Jigoku Shoujo, kinda destroyed it for me. tl;dr It's not a flaw imo. Natsume Yuujinchou is similar with Mushi? I mean, they have the same pace? I wanted to start it while ago but I wasn't sure if it's worth or not... |
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