traed said: It iss semantics because psychology is a different field than neurology. Things that cause withdrawl symptoms in the body arent the same as things where people just are hooked on without a physical need that causes withdrawls. Psychology is what follows neurology - unless you're a dualist. I wonder why an anime addict, upon stopping his habit, would feel depressed for quite some time until he's finally free of the addiction - don't you wonder that too? Purely psychological addictions (such as gaming, anime etc) also have withdrawal symptoms. Symptoms such as depression, uneasiness, annoyance etc - all of which are neurological in nature but psychological in treatment. |
TyrelApr 27, 2016 1:48 AM
BlackCell said: Yeah.... Please don't compare the two, because after you've seen real alcohol and drug addicts, you wouldn't. Anime addiction is a thing, yes, just like all the other forms of entertainment you can get addicted to, but that just means that the person who got addicted had an addictive personality, or was put in a position where they got addicted to anime. I'm not really a depressive person normally, but I had reasons to be pretty depressed during certain times in my life, and during those times, anime watching was a good escape method. You could say I was addicted, but that was only because I was in a position that made my personality seek an addiction. The difference between anime and stuff like drugs and alcohol is that regular use doesn't create a physical dependency, and is much less destructive. So don't compare the two. Yes, anime is addictive, and can be destructive, but it can also be safely consumed without any negative effects. How common is anime addiction though? Isn't this thread just LOL ANIME FANS ARE LAME I'M NOT? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: BlackCell said: Yeah.... Please don't compare the two, because after you've seen real alcohol and drug addicts, you wouldn't. Anime addiction is a thing, yes, just like all the other forms of entertainment you can get addicted to, but that just means that the person who got addicted had an addictive personality, or was put in a position where they got addicted to anime. I'm not really a depressive person normally, but I had reasons to be pretty depressed during certain times in my life, and during those times, anime watching was a good escape method. You could say I was addicted, but that was only because I was in a position that made my personality seek an addiction. The difference between anime and stuff like drugs and alcohol is that regular use doesn't create a physical dependency, and is much less destructive. So don't compare the two. Yes, anime is addictive, and can be destructive, but it can also be safely consumed without any negative effects. How common is anime addiction though? Isn't this thread just LOL ANIME FANS ARE LAME I'M NOT? Yep, it is pretty much. OP forgets that under this categorisation, he would be classed as an addict with the rest of us. |
Lol no. Anime cannot endanger your life or destroy your liver. .....it is about as expensive as alcohol though.... |
  |
To kids and younger teens; YES anime should be categorized. These people haven't yet learned to differentiate between anime and real life, and an overdose of these cartoons can vary from annoying to embarrassing to downright dangerous (there have been kids who thought they could fly/be ninjas and got themselves killed). On special occasions, like in anime conventions and such, this kind of behavior has to be forgiven due to it being impossible to control. Let the kids OD like drunks in a bar. Grownups, on their early twenties and onward, should already know to avoid the cancer that is weeaboo behavior. Adults know their own limits and have already learned to watch anime responsibly. The unfortunate exceptions that haven't will die as virgins anyway, so such mistakes will be weeded out of humanity naturally. |
Trance- said: Anime is an addiction. An addiction usually sought by the socially unsuccessful. It is made by those who were dejected in their childhood. Sure some of them, through this nefarious trade, accumulated fame and wealth but isn't that the same with some alcohol manufacturers? Every drunkard on the street has his own formula for the type of drink he likes. Same is the case with anime producers. Everyone has his own style and majority of which are downright cancer - exactly like bad alcohol, literally. Then you have the fact that, exactly like alcohol, anime is a hit or miss. At times it leads to something productive but mostly it only wastes your time and helps you forget your real life failures for a while. Nearly all anime watchers that I've encountered exhibited one ego self-defense mechanism in particular : Fantasy. Alcohol drinkers exhibit one such mechanism too - usually. No matter what aspect you're considering, anime is exactly like alcohol. Thoughts? Not entirely sure if that's the greatest comparison but.... Eh... I guess? |
| Wtf is wrong with this OP?! Anime is not an addiction, and it definitely isn't comparable to alcohol! |
 |
mimiiria said: except they are already categorized?To kids and younger teens; YES anime should be categorized. |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
traed said: Yes, but even physical addictions are mostly due to psychological counterparts. If someone with a physical addiction is made more psychologically stable then they will recover much faster. Here's a video on it.Semantics, they work differently. Physical addictions have withdrawl symptoms that cause havoc on the body. |
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| If alcohol is just for deadbeats and derelicts, how do those upscale high-class bars stay in business? |
on 
| Anime is an addiction, eh? I suppose that explains all of the people who speak about getting burned out on anime. Let's not forget as well that you didn't say "anime can be an addiction", you just flat-out said that anime IS an addiction (and then went on to unironically paint all anime enthusiasts as basement-dwelling losers and degenerates). Let's not forget as well that anime is simply a medium of fiction - so we actually may as well paint all recreation involving fiction as pathetic escapism of individuals with poor social status. On second thought, why don't we apply this to all artistic recreation in general (i.e. music, the visual arts, forms of language art like poetry, etc.)? Please give me a reason. Or retract your statement that anime is just an addiction (of which, I should note, people may have multiple reasons for being addicted to - not just a lack of "success" in life). Addiction is bad, plain and simple, it doesn't matter much what form it takes. The unfounded correlation you make between anime and "degeneracy" is stupid as hell, and especially in this case, laughable. TheBrainintheJar said: Isn't this thread just LOL ANIME FANS ARE LAME I'M NOT? Oh, and yes, this is precisely what this thread is. |
RefractingApr 25, 2016 4:38 PM
mimiiria said: To kids and younger teens; YES anime should be categorized. These people haven't yet learned to differentiate between anime and real life, and an overdose of these cartoons can vary from annoying to embarrassing to downright dangerous (there have been kids who thought they could fly/be ninjas and got themselves killed). On special occasions, like in anime conventions and such, this kind of behavior has to be forgiven due to it being impossible to control. Let the kids OD like drunks in a bar. Grownups, on their early twenties and onward, should already know to avoid the cancer that is weeaboo behavior. Adults know their own limits and have already learned to watch anime responsibly. The unfortunate exceptions that haven't will die as virgins anyway, so such mistakes will be weeded out of humanity naturally. At least someone here is rational and responsible. TheRefractingOne said: Anime is an addiction, eh? I suppose that explains all of the people who speak about getting burned out on anime. Let's not forget as well that you didn't say "anime can be an addiction", you just flat-out said that anime IS an addiction (and then went on to unironically paint all anime enthusiasts as basement-dwelling losers and degenerates). Let's not forget as well that anime is simply a medium of fiction - so we actually may as well paint all recreation involving fiction as pathetic escapism of individuals with poor social status. On second thought, why don't we apply this to all artistic recreation in general (i.e. music, the visual arts, forms of language art like poetry, etc.)? Please give me a reason. Or retract your statement that anime is just an addiction (of which, I should note, people may have multiple reasons for being addicted to - not just a lack of "success" in life). Addiction is bad, plain and simple, it doesn't matter much what form it takes. The unfounded correlation you make between anime and "degeneracy" is stupid as hell, and especially in this case, laughable. TheBrainintheJar said: Isn't this thread just LOL ANIME FANS ARE LAME I'M NOT? Oh, and yes, this is precisely what this thread is. Getting into slippery slopes is the best thing a man with unclear thinking can do. No other medium of fiction has produced this many basement dwellers as anime has. If there are as many book geeks as there are otakus out there, then you may have a point. But right now, yours is just a pathetic attempt at saving your nefarious hobby which avails you naught but discomfort and distress with life. |
Trance- said: except it is also uninformative as fuck. in fact anime already categorized by ratings and demographic. not to mention time slot and cencorship...mimiiria said: To kids and younger teens; YES anime should be categorized. These people haven't yet learned to differentiate between anime and real life, and an overdose of these cartoons can vary from annoying to embarrassing to downright dangerous (there have been kids who thought they could fly/be ninjas and got themselves killed). On special occasions, like in anime conventions and such, this kind of behavior has to be forgiven due to it being impossible to control. Let the kids OD like drunks in a bar. Grownups, on their early twenties and onward, should already know to avoid the cancer that is weeaboo behavior. Adults know their own limits and have already learned to watch anime responsibly. The unfortunate exceptions that haven't will die as virgins anyway, so such mistakes will be weeded out of humanity naturally. At least someone here is rational and responsible. |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| Of course, only losers have hobbies, right? |
 |
Trance- said: mimiiria said: To kids and younger teens; YES anime should be categorized. These people haven't yet learned to differentiate between anime and real life, and an overdose of these cartoons can vary from annoying to embarrassing to downright dangerous (there have been kids who thought they could fly/be ninjas and got themselves killed). On special occasions, like in anime conventions and such, this kind of behavior has to be forgiven due to it being impossible to control. Let the kids OD like drunks in a bar. Grownups, on their early twenties and onward, should already know to avoid the cancer that is weeaboo behavior. Adults know their own limits and have already learned to watch anime responsibly. The unfortunate exceptions that haven't will die as virgins anyway, so such mistakes will be weeded out of humanity naturally. At least someone here is rational and responsible. TheRefractingOne said: Anime is an addiction, eh? I suppose that explains all of the people who speak about getting burned out on anime. Let's not forget as well that you didn't say "anime can be an addiction", you just flat-out said that anime IS an addiction (and then went on to unironically paint all anime enthusiasts as basement-dwelling losers and degenerates). Let's not forget as well that anime is simply a medium of fiction - so we actually may as well paint all recreation involving fiction as pathetic escapism of individuals with poor social status. On second thought, why don't we apply this to all artistic recreation in general (i.e. music, the visual arts, forms of language art like poetry, etc.)? Please give me a reason. Or retract your statement that anime is just an addiction (of which, I should note, people may have multiple reasons for being addicted to - not just a lack of "success" in life). Addiction is bad, plain and simple, it doesn't matter much what form it takes. The unfounded correlation you make between anime and "degeneracy" is stupid as hell, and especially in this case, laughable. Oh, and yes, this is precisely what this thread is. Getting into slippery slopes is the best thing a man with unclear thinking can do. No other medium of fiction has produced this many basement dwellers as anime has. If there are as many book geeks as there are otakus out there, then you may have a point. But right now, yours is just a pathetic attempt at saving your nefarious hobby which avails you naught but discomfort and distress with life. Where are these basement dwellers? I go to an anime convention and see all these weirdos having fun, being social as fuck without shitty Avicii blasting in the background and shots of vodka. This isn't high school. Laughing at other people's hobbies doesn't make you cool. You just look like you don't have as much fun as us. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Trance- said: Getting into slippery slopes is the best thing a man with unclear thinking can do. No other medium of fiction has produced this many basement dwellers as anime has. If there are as many book geeks as there are otakus out there, then you may have a point. But right now, yours is just a pathetic attempt at saving your nefarious hobby which avails you naught but discomfort and distress with life. Look, here's the main flaw with your arguments: they're built on the premise that anime has "produced this many basement dwellers", yet you fail to provide any empirical data to back up your claims. Forgive me for my dysfunction, but positive claims require positive evidence, of which you've produced absolutely none (and no, "points" in the form of rationales don't count as evidence when the evidence required is empirical). Until you provide evidence for how many unemployed individuals leading dysfunctional lives anime has produced, there's really little reason to draw a distinction between anime and any other form of artistic recreation with your "alcoholism, despair, degeneracy, etc." judgements. I could just as easily state (with equal evidence) that anime is targeting teenagers and young adults who don't care to consume terribly high-brow titles, and already have a fair amount of free time from their lifestyles, which for their ages, are not dysfunctional. Please provide me with these undoubtedly thorough and enlightening studies. |
| You don't get drunk from anime. tho. But I get your point, anyway anime is not a unusually hardcore addiction. And like some guys above me allready said,--> it's not harmful. |
TheRefractingOne said: Trance- said: Getting into slippery slopes is the best thing a man with unclear thinking can do. No other medium of fiction has produced this many basement dwellers as anime has. If there are as many book geeks as there are otakus out there, then you may have a point. But right now, yours is just a pathetic attempt at saving your nefarious hobby which avails you naught but discomfort and distress with life. Look, here's the main flaw with your arguments: they're built on the premise that anime has "produced this many basement dwellers", yet you fail to provide any empirical data to back up your claims. Forgive me for my dysfunction, but positive claims require positive evidence, of which you've produced absolutely none (and no, "points" in the form of rationales don't count as evidence when the evidence required is empirical). Until you provide evidence for how many unemployed individuals leading dysfunctional lives anime has produced, there's really little reason to draw a distinction between anime and any other form of artistic recreation with your "alcoholism, despair, degeneracy, etc." judgements. I could just as easily state (with equal evidence) that anime is targeting teenagers and young adults who don't care to consume terribly high-brow titles, and already have a fair amount of free time from their lifestyles, which for their ages, are not dysfunctional. Please provide me with these undoubtedly thorough and enlightening studies. The Nomura Research Institute (NRI) has made two major studies into otaku, the first in 2004 and a revised study with a more specific definition in 2005. The 2005 study defines twelve major fields of otaku interests. Of these groups, manga (Japanese comics) was the largest, with 350,000 individuals and ¥83 billion market scale. Idol otaku were the next largest group, with 280,000 individuals and ¥61 billion. Travel otaku with 250,000 individuals and ¥81 billion. PC otaku with 190,000 individuals and ¥36 billion. Video game otaku with 160,000 individuals and ¥21 billion. Automobile otaku with 140,000 individuals and ¥54 billion. Animation (anime) otaku with 110,000 individuals and ¥20 billion. The remaining five categories include Mobile IT equipment otaku, with 70,000 individuals and ¥8 billion; Audio-visual equipment otaku, with 60,000 individuals and ¥12 billion; camera otaku, with 50,000 individuals and ¥18 billion; fashion otaku, with 40,000 individuals and ¥13 billion; and railway otaku, with 20,000 individuals and ¥4 billion. These values were partially released with a much higher estimation in 2004, but this definition focused on the consumerism and not the "unique psychological characteristics" of otaku used in the 2005 study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otaku#Types_and_classification_of_Japanese_otaku And this is just Japan. Get an idea of how it is abroad. Empirical evidence is one google search away - almost always. Now if you would tackle the point instead, that would be great. One life lesson you ought to learn here: If something is asserted without proof, it can be denied without proof. If something is based on pure reason, it can be denied with pure reason. If something is based on practical reason, then it can be denied only with practical reason. We're not doing formal logic here that we would need to rely on empirical findings to test the soundness of our conclusions. TheBrainintheJar said: Where are these basement dwellers? I go to an anime convention and see all these weirdos having fun, being social as fuck without shitty Avicii blasting in the background and shots of vodka. This isn't high school. Laughing at other people's hobbies doesn't make you cool. You just look like you don't have as much fun as us. Look above. Fun isn't the objective/purpose of life. Happiness is. And fun doesn't equate to happiness. |
Trance- said: And this is just Japan. Get an idea of how it is abroad. Empirical evidence is one google search away - almost always. Now if you would tackle the point instead, that would be great. One life lesson you ought to learn here: If something is asserted without proof, it can be denied without proof. If something is based on pure reason, it can be denied with pure reason. If something is based on practical reason, then it can be denied only with practical reason. We're not doing formal logic here that we would need to rely on empirical findings to test the soundness of our conclusions. In regards to the study: the term "otaku" in Japan does not refer strictly to "anime/manga enthusiast" as it does here in the West, first of all. "Otaku" refers to, in essence, anyone who's become strongly interested in a particular hobby, really. Would you call traveling enthusiasts or gearheads "otaku degenerates"? I wouldn't. Furthermore, where here does the study look closely at the lifestyles of all these individuals (and contrast these case studies with statistics on how many total animanga otaku there are, to provide a picture of how many of these sad, lonely degenerates there are)? This study is on things like sales, number of people interested in the hobby, etc. Sure, it provides some brief archetypes of "different types of Otaku", but this includes no look at their lives in any sort of depth outside of some brief psychological questionnaires, asking them about how interested they are in certain fields, and what (positive, or at the very least not negative) personality traits they most strongly identify with. And perhaps, most importantly of all, these archetypes encompass ALL otaku (aka, plenty more than just animanga fans). The only group characterized by the study I can imagine you defining as "weeaboo losers" is the "Fan magazine-obsessed otaku", but a group of females in their 20s and 30s accounts for the overwhelming majority of this type, and furthermore identify most strongly with the "desire to be creative" trait. This seems to me to be clearly indicative a group of young women who simply enjoy creating and enjoying various forms of fanart related to the shows they watch (and probably devote a pretty decent amount of time to their visual arts). Still though, we know nothing of these women's occupational statuses, and we know very little of their lifestyle in general. They may as well just be young women working or going to school who spend a lot of their free time with classic creative outlets like the visual arts, we simply don't know. And as you mentioned, this is just a study of Japan. There's no data on the lifestyles of Western animanga fans (not that there's really any data of these Japanese animanga fan's lifestyles here either...) that you've provided. Oh, and you're right. If something is asserted with no evidence, it can be denied with no evidence. It is up to the individual making the positive claim to provide the positive proof. You've provided no positive evidence, so I've denied you with no evidence (well, I do have an argument regarding that really shaky piece you did finally put forward). I'll say it again to drill it into your head: your argument that compares alcoholism to anime is based on the two assumptions that; (a) anime is an addiction, not a hobby (at least among most of it's enthusiasts), and (b) anime enthusiasts are predominately individuals who lack proper jobs, educations, and means or desire to acquire those things (and also probably suffer from a plethora of psychological problems). These are assumptions about the external world (aka, empirical claims), but you have failed to provide any substantive evidence for them. You can't just ignore evidence in cases like these. For instance, let's say I that go on a rant about how it's in the natural and completely normal behavioral standards for men to violently rape woman, murder each other, etc. "Men are comparable to animals in every aspect", I say. "Well, clearly we're gonna need some evidence for this sir, some statistics by various government justice systems should suffice, to show us just how rampant such extreme violence among men is", another party states. Followed by that, I quickly google something like "rape studies men", and come up with some study conducted on a single university campus asking both men and women whether they had ever felt uncomfortable in a relationship or with romantic/sexual advances being made towards them, and instantly equate the answers to a huge portion of the male populace being barbarians. "Now if you could actually tackle the point instead, that'd be great", I say. Because obviously the meat of my argument can be tackled with pure reason, not in an examination of my empirical data (or lack thereof). |
RefractingApr 26, 2016 12:30 PM
Trance- said: TheRefractingOne said: Look, here's the main flaw with your arguments: they're built on the premise that anime has "produced this many basement dwellers", yet you fail to provide any empirical data to back up your claims. Forgive me for my dysfunction, but positive claims require positive evidence, of which you've produced absolutely none (and no, "points" in the form of rationales don't count as evidence when the evidence required is empirical). Until you provide evidence for how many unemployed individuals leading dysfunctional lives anime has produced, there's really little reason to draw a distinction between anime and any other form of artistic recreation with your "alcoholism, despair, degeneracy, etc." judgements. I could just as easily state (with equal evidence) that anime is targeting teenagers and young adults who don't care to consume terribly high-brow titles, and already have a fair amount of free time from their lifestyles, which for their ages, are not dysfunctional. Please provide me with these undoubtedly thorough and enlightening studies. The Nomura Research Institute (NRI) has made two major studies into otaku, the first in 2004 and a revised study with a more specific definition in 2005. The 2005 study defines twelve major fields of otaku interests. Of these groups, manga (Japanese comics) was the largest, with 350,000 individuals and ¥83 billion market scale. Idol otaku were the next largest group, with 280,000 individuals and ¥61 billion. Travel otaku with 250,000 individuals and ¥81 billion. PC otaku with 190,000 individuals and ¥36 billion. Video game otaku with 160,000 individuals and ¥21 billion. Automobile otaku with 140,000 individuals and ¥54 billion. Animation (anime) otaku with 110,000 individuals and ¥20 billion. The remaining five categories include Mobile IT equipment otaku, with 70,000 individuals and ¥8 billion; Audio-visual equipment otaku, with 60,000 individuals and ¥12 billion; camera otaku, with 50,000 individuals and ¥18 billion; fashion otaku, with 40,000 individuals and ¥13 billion; and railway otaku, with 20,000 individuals and ¥4 billion. These values were partially released with a much higher estimation in 2004, but this definition focused on the consumerism and not the "unique psychological characteristics" of otaku used in the 2005 study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otaku#Types_and_classification_of_Japanese_otaku And this is just Japan. Get an idea of how it is abroad. Empirical evidence is one google search away - almost always. Now if you would tackle the point instead, that would be great. One life lesson you ought to learn here: If something is asserted without proof, it can be denied without proof. If something is based on pure reason, it can be denied with pure reason. If something is based on practical reason, then it can be denied only with practical reason. We're not doing formal logic here that we would need to rely on empirical findings to test the soundness of our conclusions. TheBrainintheJar said: Where are these basement dwellers? I go to an anime convention and see all these weirdos having fun, being social as fuck without shitty Avicii blasting in the background and shots of vodka. This isn't high school. Laughing at other people's hobbies doesn't make you cool. You just look like you don't have as much fun as us. Look above. Fun isn't the objective/purpose of life. Happiness is. And fun doesn't equate to happiness. Anime conventions provide more happiness than a one night stand. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
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