Would it help?
Yes
34.8%
24
No
65.2%
45
69 votes
| There has not been any governments yet that were pure communism. Usually its mixed with something else. |
| Yes the industry would indeed benefit quite a lot from Socialism, Communism is the final stage of Socialism you cannot just go from Capitalism to Communism in the snap of a finger, you need to build for it. 99% of the commentators here have no idea what even Socialism nor Communism is, I highly doubt they even read Das Kapital or Utopian Socialism by Engels. Where is my basis for saying yes? Its quite easy really, the Soviet Union is the best example that has ever existed, how did movie production work in USSR? Its simple, the artists borrows money from the state owned studio to make their art (movie, animation, series etc) when the final product is done the studio publishes it and all profit made from per see movie is taken by the state, however the artists also gets royalty. Now imbeciles might say "Well, how do you get paid?" Well that is where most of the borrowed money goes to, its to pay wages, the studio already owns most of the resources and is free to use, because you are part of the studio you simply borrow resources. While its true you would not get rich from making movies in USSR people still made more movies than Hollywood so this argument is already flat out invalid and display of huge ignorance, most artists are not in it for the money otherwise they would been a producer people who say artists are in it for the money never worked in the industry and are usually the kind of people who rarely ever held a real job that involves using your muscles a lot. "But Soviet movies are of poor quality" another argument I encountered by American exceptionalism, and every American movie was brilliant correct? False. Solaris, War and Peace, Stalker, The White of a Desert, Come and See I could go on literally for hours but my point is already proven, the Soviets made just if not MORE brilliant movies than Hollywood did. You know Star Trek and Star Wars? They were inspired a lot by Soviet science fiction, the Soviets pioneered a load of modern genres including action, modern drama, science fiction particular very much defined by the Soviets. Now why and how? The Soviet artist had more freedom to experiment than any other cinema in the world. This is also why the Soviets invented a lot of modern animation techniques, Miyazaki himself admitted he would never been an animator if he did not see a particular Soviet animation movie which is among his favourites, in fact he has a lot of Soviet animation favourites and they also inspire him particular by the art styles. Soviet animation not just inspired him but the entire Japanese anime industry takes a lot of inspirations in techniques and many other things, it is fair to say that Japanese anime is a fusion of French and Russian/Soviet animation. Some people cite Disney but this is false, that would be Japanese animation, but anime evolved differently and not from Disney. Another argument is that Soviet artists could not make whatever they wanted, this is false however if the studio did not like it they simply would just not give you money for it. You could still make it, there are plenty of Soviet movies that criticises the government and so on, Stalker is a critique of the system in USSR and its brilliantly portrayed. There even Soviet war movies that portray equal side of the Germans showing German soldiers suffering and acting like humans, where do you even see that in Hollywood??? In Hollywood the Americans are so busy portraying their enemies like the devils on the other side of the ocean a country that actually suffered under WW2 shows Germans as human beings fooled by an evil man and a stupid idea but they show exceptional loyalty and the Soviets respect them for that. Already two hundred million light years ahead in adulthood than America who still act like children. The copyright system in USSR was also completely tame, there was nothing stopping you from reusing songs or video clips however royalty was indeed needed to be given to the original creator of those who made these songs or video clips to begin with if you profit from it. The studio usually takes care of that for you. The DPRK (North Korea) has the complete same system however they are culturally way more conservative and you do not tend to see a very big variation in their cinema in my opinion a huge shame and display of ignorance, culture should not be oppressed. In Japan if the same system were to be implemented GAINAX would still be here making what they make best, proper anime for adults with deep stories and eye candy details. It can be very much seen when anime had its golden ages in contrast with the economy, the 80s it was particular vibrant in production costs and storylines but also variations. In the 90s we see a rise of more serious anime with more serious art and directed more towards adults, they also portray the greyish situation in Japan at the time. In the early 21st century we see a lot more experimentation specially when it comes to computer graphics and so on and we get a lot of oddball anime but they are remembered because they are very unique. Today we rarely have that, why is that? Because the economy does bad and the artists are forced to make anime that sells for profit, the animation industry in Japan is profit driven this is the harsh reality that artists live in, art should not be profit driven. And again as I said earlier anyone who says profit motive is good for art they most likely never held a job in their life or worked a job that requires lifting anything more than a pencil. Hard working people who actually broken a sweat at their job everyday will know what i am talking about, we work effortless and yet paid less than a salary man, very fair? Despite education well except in America but in rest of the developed world everyone gets first class education for free, even in Japan. If you speak to any old school Japanese animator or even mangaka they will tell you that they rather not work for profits but do what they want to do because they love it. Another argument you can use against foolish Capitalist sympatiseres is that animators are paid in most cases less than a grocery store clerk, if they were in it for the profits they would not be animators at all, the anime industry would not be here today because the harsh reality is its not making as much profit as people tend to believe. Most of the profit made goes to paying salaries, the electronics industry in Japan makes more money than animation according to Capitalist sympatiseres there should only be electronics factories in Japan, but it really is not because money is not the thing that occupies peoples mind the most when they look for a job otherwise we all be store clerks or salary men. The government may give you figures of their great profits but very little of that goes to saving, its all spent pretty much after the production. To begin with, people who support Capitalism have very poor idea of how the free market works, competition and profit motives are what makes it go around, people complain about shows like Sword Art Online and Naruto well guess what kids, that is what makes profit and that is what will be made. In the market you have an illusion of choice in reality you are forced what the market churns out and that is what is popular. Majority of people also have poor understanding of how Socialism works, under Socialism your basic needs are always met even if it means sacrificing luxury and you be damn sure it will. In China when Mao took power there was millions of people without proper winter clothes, so instead of making luxury which Capitalism would do, Chinese Socialism made winter coats for everyone at a rapid phase, if it was not for Socialism, millions would frozen to death in northern China, there was no time to make fancy colourful coats a simple, cheap but effective coat was needed and therefore was made. I saw some commentators commenting on collapse of Socialism, no they were couped there is a difference. The complex truth is most people seemed to be incapable of answering the OP's simple question and resort to attacking Socialism, this is display of insecurity and infantile behaviour. Is Socialism more capable than Capitalism in producing art? I would say YES, dig a little deep and open the world of Soviet culture, you will be mind blown what they had, they had everything we had, punk rock, metal, pop music, romance movies, pornographic material (Yes this did indeed exist but only as nude photos), fancy architecture, wild artistic animations and so on. |
| "Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." - Plato |
| Well yes because people would actually be free to make what they want. The capitalist "free market" is an implicit, much more insidious form of censorship. You CAN make whatever you want in theory, but the reality is that you have to make your product compliant with "market demands", meaning that if you make a piece of media that goes against the current trends it will be likely to fail. This means that studios have to obey market trends or else they are taking too much of a risk and will lose profits, which they need to survive. Of course there are still many creators who go against the market trends but most of these either fail or are doomed to "cult classic" obscurity at best. Another point to note is that under collective property employment would work very differently than under a privately-owned system. Instead of having to work in a single studio people would be able to distribute their work across multiple studios or even other fields outside of animation if they have the time. It would be hard to predict the effects of this but it would likely lead to much more collaboration in projects. And the main point of this is that the idea should appeal especially to the anime elitists because there would be a lot less "moeshit" under a socialist/communist/non-profit-driven economy. |
SMGJohn said: Is Socialism more capable than Capitalism in producing art? I would say YES, dig a little deep and open the world of Soviet culture, you will be mind blown what they had, they had everything we had, punk rock, metal, pop music, romance movies, pornographic material (Yes this did indeed exist but only as nude photos), fancy architecture, wild artistic animations and so on. You need market demand, lest you get Canada, Sweden or Spain, where mediocre & politically correct art is funded by a majority that despise it. |
| Eat the rich Onii-chan! |
SuperIdolNico said: Threadly reminder that communism has never worked and if you love communism you should move to North Korea or Venezuela Ignorant statement and lack of understanding what Communism is. Venezuela is Social democratic, you cannot have Socialism nor Communism with private property its a fallacy and a contradiction. DPRK is a Socialist country not Communist, of course if you want to believe in what Americans say about the country and "anonymous South Korean intelligence agents" be my guest. Funny enough the largest animation studio in the world is located in Pyongyang, SEK Studio with over 2000 employees as of 2016 in comparison DR Movies largest in South Korea only has a meagre 350 - 400 full time employees and A1 Pictures in Japan has 152 full time employees. Toei Animation has over 300 full time employees and Sunrise about 250. No one even gets close in fact SEK Studio almost employs as many animators as the Japanese animation industry does, and this is a perfect example of what the OP was asking for, they churn out some of the highest quality animations in the world all of which are hand drawn. The animations are super smooth, is it good material however? Well that can be left for opinions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-kd0FyA4xw |
| "Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." - Plato |
clandestine said: in the end nobody benefits from communism Not sure what it has to do with the OP's original question, but I guess you are just going to ignore the massive industrial undertaking that USSR did in the late 20s and through the 30s. No one benefits? Must be why 76,4% voted to keep the USSR in the referendum of 1991? http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/164860 Why come there is such a nostalgia for Socialism then in post-Socialist countries? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/nov/08/1989-berlin-wall http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/homesick-for-a-dictatorship-majority-of-eastern-germans-feel-life-better-under-communism-a-634122.html https://communismgr.blogspot.no/2016/08/life-was-better-under-communism-says.html https://www.rt.com/politics/340158-most-russians-regret-ussr-has/ The thing is, you have no idea what you are talking about, people regret the collapse of Socialism in most post-Socialist countries with a few exceptions. Because in those times, your basic needs were covered and you had generally more freedom in personal choice, specially in education and work. Because the lack of competition in the workplace people tended to work harder. Again what the OP was asking for, if people had more liberty in art making what would happen to anime if Japan was under the same conditions? Do I need to remind you that there currently hundreds of thousand homeless people in Japan and Capsule hotel are a thing, lovely. Under such conditions one has to wonder, if Socialism or according to you Communism the final stage of Socialism gives no one benefits, what exactly does Capitalism do? Because I have nightmares what kind of word is needed to describe such a condition. The better the social conditions are, the better people will perform and the better the art will be. Gainax nearly went bankrupt multiple times making their movies because of the high costs. |
| "Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." - Plato |
Lobinde said: And the main point of this is that the idea should appeal especially to the anime elitists because there would be a lot less "moeshit" under a socialist/communist/non-profit-driven economy. Exactly, proof of this one only needs to look at the golden age of anime when resources were abundant enough for animators and artists to make whatever they wanted. A lot of garbage was made but hey, at least it was unique, the least to say... A lot of those are cult classics these days, you wont get that with moe milking. |
| "Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." - Plato |
SMGJohn said: Lobinde said: And the main point of this is that the idea should appeal especially to the anime elitists because there would be a lot less "moeshit" under a socialist/communist/non-profit-driven economy. Exactly, proof of this one only needs to look at the golden age of anime when resources were abundant enough for animators and artists to make whatever they wanted. A lot of garbage was made but hey, at least it was unique, the least to say... A lot of those are cult classics these days, you wont get that with moe milking. Well I like my fair share of moe, so I don't that moe-influence on the industry should be removed entirely, nor do I think that it would under a non-profit-driven system, there are a lot of new animators who like drawing and animating cute stuff. But indeed there would be more creative freedom and room for more large-budget movie projects and such again. |
Lobinde said: SMGJohn said: Exactly, proof of this one only needs to look at the golden age of anime when resources were abundant enough for animators and artists to make whatever they wanted. A lot of garbage was made but hey, at least it was unique, the least to say... A lot of those are cult classics these days, you wont get that with moe milking. Well I like my fair share of moe, so I don't that moe-influence on the industry should be removed entirely, nor do I think that it would under a non-profit-driven system, there are a lot of new animators who like drawing and animating cute stuff. But indeed there would be more creative freedom and room for more large-budget movie projects and such again. I actually doubt that Moe would cease to exist under a Socialist driven economy unless they pushed for censorship which would be extremely unrealistic for today's conditions of society, it made sense in 1920s but not today. Moe might be less common though. JCP is growing but I doubt they would enact Socialism if they got into power. |
| "Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." - Plato |
| am srsly doubt anime becomings is exist if japon were comunist |
Rance-sama said: Now hear me out, recently the JCP (Japanese Communist Party) has picked up a little steam. According to the latest local elections they're now the largest opposition party. Now then, if you think about the low wages given to newbie voice actors and some animation studios -- would a fixed wage help or hurt the anime industry? To put it in perspective, most seiyuus get paid 15,000 yen an episode with extremely popular ones (e.g Sugita, Hanazawa) getting 45,000. That means for a one-cour series a regular seiyuu would get $1,500 in USD. Japanese animators get around a mere $10,000 a year, for working an average of 11 hours a day. Most people in the anime industry are in poverty. I think your math is wrong.I am pretty sure animators and voice actors/actresses work on more than one series a year,especially voice actors/actresses. A 132 dollars per 30 minute episode which is what 15,000 yen equals is pretty great pay. With the Simpsons for example the voice acting work is usually a couple of weeks for a whole season and each season usually consists of 22 episodes. So I do not think Japanese voice actors are only working one 13 episode long series a year. |
| Yes! Then Togashi is work in a camp, and we would see the end of HxH |
 |
Pxi2 said: You need market demand, lest you get Canada, Sweden or Spain, where mediocre & politically correct art is funded by a majority that despise it. No you do not, in Socialist countries they had demand as well. Let me us an example, in China after the revolution people were freezing in the winter, so therefore they prioritised to make winter coats, in a market this would mean an opportunity to sell winter coats of course in this situation none of the people have a lot of money so therefore the demand goes down in a market. In Socialism however its a priority to make simple winter coats and give them out for free so people do not freeze, you do not have time to make different designs and colours because you need a lot of winter coats. Basic human necessities are always focused over luxury in Socialism, only when there is an abundance of basic needs can one create luxury. Hence why millions of people starve to death in Capitalist countries. |
| "Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." - Plato |
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