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| When Kuzuki stopped Saber's sword and then promptly kicked her ass, I was laughing at how fucking awesome it was. Holy shit. This guy is a badass among badasses. |
| I am so done with the slow boiling shit show of a plot and its nonsensical development. Rin Tohsaka is up there with the worst protagonist I can think of, not because she is incompetent, but because she is competent but chooses not to be, or rather, because she isn't allowed to be. The writers insist on playing this tsundere addled romantic subplot for all its worth, to the point it has turned her into a complete idiot that has abandoned rationality and basic strategy in favour of playing nice with her love interest, who for some reason is like black hole for reasonable thoughts. At least Archer called her out on that shit this episode. Never mind the fact that we've been fed the same bullshit excuse why she hasn't simply taken Emiya out of the Holy Grail War for, I dunno, at least four episodes before the writers made it so abundantly clear these two were going to be allies, we still have to deal with Rin being a complete fuckwit that for some reasons sees fit to leave her Servant at home like he's a pet instead of her primary means of survival in a clandestine mage war that could claim her life at any minute, now Emiya pulled a typical shōnen power up that conveniently allowed him to fight off a mage that rekt Saber. Really, fuck this anime. fate/zero shits on it from biblical heights. It's not even funny how terrible this is by comparison. I don't know what I was expecting, considering the high school setting and knowing that fate/stay had a bad reputation long before I got into either anime. I'm pretty much fed up with this. I'd drop it if the first half wasn't nearly over. I'm going to need the 3 month gap to get over my disappointment. |
TyrelDec 14, 2014 8:12 PM
| deen finds a way [spoiler]   |
BotatoPriest said: LoomyTheBrew said: Oh wow. They actually made Kuzuki look like a match for Saber, and completely ruined the whole point of him taking her off guard.I got you covered: https://data.archive.moe/board/a/image/1417/35/1417350757985.webm https://data.archive.moe/board/a/image/1417/35/1417351640786.webm It's absolutely hilarious.... Deen tried I guess! Lol! Haha I know! Saber looked pretty pathetic during that sequence. Kuzuki hit her a few times and then she was done. I just love how ufotable really showed how bad Kuzuki beat her down. ANGRY2011 said: Just curious: You're avatar is taken from the H/A opening right? I really hope that ufotable will animate H/A someday too. |
| So much bait in one post. |
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ANGRY2011 said: So much bait. Why don't you just drop it if you hate it so much? Bait? Elaborate, please. I didn't drop it because I enjoyed the prequel and decided to give fate/night a try. nocorras said: So much bait in one post. Elaborate. |
LoomyTheBrew said: Just curious: You're avatar is taken from the H/A opening right? I really hope that ufotable will animate H/A someday too. Yea, my avatar is from the H/A opening. Love me some Illya. I dunno if H/A lends itself well to being an anime. Still, I wouldn't ever complain about getting more Fate material. |
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| Ok I'll reply to you TheIMF |
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| Thank god we have studio Deen. |
| Inb4 fanboys card |
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TheIMF said: Isn't this just a remake, i.e. a retelling of a pre-established plot? Are the visual novels better/worth getting into? Sigh... I should simply save this and c/p next time... No, this isn't just a remake. Visual novel has 3 distinct routes: Fate route, Unlimited Blade Works route and Heaven's Feel route, intended to be read in that order. Story in all three routes chronologically happens at the same time in 3 parallel universes, with Shirou making different decisions and, as a result, having three different stories being told. This anime is the adaptation of the 2nd route, Unlimited Blade Works, which splits off from Fate route on the 3rd day (Episode 1) when Shirou unconsciously uses Command Spell to stop Saber from attacking Archer. From there on, events in Fate and UBW unfold differently. Fate/Stay Night (2006), on the other hand, is the failed attempt of the Fate route adaptation as Studio DEEN not only tried to forcefully shoehorn UBW and HF elements into it, but also misrepresented all characters (except maybe Saber). That adaptation is the reason why Fate/Stay Night as a whole has bad reputation. Keep in mind that this is the adaptation of the visual novel, two entirely different mediums. Visual Novel is sort of book which also has background images, some animation, voice acting, sound effects and sometimes minigames and nice user interface. As such, primary storytelling method are words, not visuals, and most of the Shirou's development is told through his monologues; some of which can be easily translated to visuals in the anime, and some not. Also, order of the things was changed here and there (in the VN, Shirou's projection was foreshadowed while ufotable used "reveal then explain" method), which sometimes makes things clearer and sometimes adds some confusion. |
astroprogs said: If HF ended up being a single movie, what would it need to do so it can get a high score from all of you? Not air. |
| Yeah, yeah, I wish this guy know what happens when Rin decide to bring Archer along. Oh wait, spoiler. |
ANGRY2011 said: Obviously frustrated or not, it does make you look childish. I find it funny you call our reaction of thinking it was bait petulant, but your post looks the most petulant of all. I mean, what do you expect when you come into the show's forum and basically say "Fuck this shit its terrible goddamn." You can blow it off as us being offended with "virgin eyes," but it establishes you as hostile and does imply that you're looking to get in a fight or rile people up, hence, bait. I'll respond to your actual criticisms in another post, if you want. I don't follow your reasoning. My initial post was not petulant by any known meaning of the word. Immature, outlandish, crude, yes - but not petulant. But nothing in any of your posts indicate that the issue lies with my use of foul language. If anything, it seems to me you were simply being dismissive of a poster going against the grain by sharing an unpopular opinion, rather than disparaging someone who was mucking up the thread by swearing like a sailor. I suppose Samhiuy referring to my post as "just horrible" and making assumptions about my age and maturity don't amount to any hostility in your eyes? You only need to scroll up to see I was polite when you were dismissive. Please do actually respond to my actual criticism if you're so inclined. |
| I enjoyed the episode a lot. I mean, yeah, the blue lightning bolts were a bit excessive, but it was supposed to be a "wow" moment that highlights Shirou's badassery. I'm glad that Rin being in grave danger is what spurred Shirou to combine his projection+strengthening magic together and make Archer's weapons. There needed to be more scenes of Shirou's attraction towards her anyway. |
TheIMF said: This doesn't address any of my actual criticism. If my use of coarse language offends your virgin eyes, I apologise. I'll edit my post if you wish. Clearly, it came from a place of frustration, that much ought to be obvious from reading it, hence why any claim of "baiting" is baseless and comes across as a form reactionary petulance of the "don't dislike what I like" variety. See, you're first post is an emotional wreck and it looks like you just want to get in a petty argument and get a rise out of people. Then coming in after you post it and be like, "What guys? You can't respond to my criticisms?" Isn't helping your case either. If you want to criticize the show that's fine, but do it in a mature way where you're not calling the show shit and claiming things that really aren't true at all. |
TheIMF said: ANGRY2011 said: Obviously frustrated or not, it does make you look childish. I find it funny you call our reaction of thinking it was bait petulant, but your post looks the most petulant of all. I mean, what do you expect when you come into the show's forum and basically say "Fuck this shit its terrible goddamn." You can blow it off as us being offended with "virgin eyes," but it establishes you as hostile and does imply that you're looking to get in a fight or rile people up, hence, bait. I'll respond to your actual criticisms in another post, if you want. I don't follow your reasoning. My initial post was not petulant by any known meaning of the word. Immature, outlandish, crude, yes - but not petulant. But nothing in any of your posts indicate that the issue lies with my use of foul language. If anything, it seems to me you were simply being dismissive of a poster going against the grain by sharing an unpopular opinion, rather than disparaging someone who was mucking up the thread by swearing like a sailor. I suppose Samhiuy referring to my post as "just horrible" and making assumptions about my age and maturity don't amount to any hostility in your eyes? You only need to scroll up to see I was polite when you were dismissive. Please do actually respond to my actual criticism if you're so inclined. You make a blatantly provocative initial post then back down and refuse to shoulder the implications of acting "immature, outlandish, and crude" Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning Samhiuy's conjectures aren't as baseless as you think. |
TheIMF said: ANGRY2011 said: Obviously frustrated or not, it does make you look childish. I find it funny you call our reaction of thinking it was bait petulant, but your post looks the most petulant of all. I mean, what do you expect when you come into the show's forum and basically say "Fuck this shit its terrible goddamn." You can blow it off as us being offended with "virgin eyes," but it establishes you as hostile and does imply that you're looking to get in a fight or rile people up, hence, bait. I'll respond to your actual criticisms in another post, if you want. I don't follow your reasoning. My initial post was not petulant by any known meaning of the word. Immature, outlandish, crude, yes - but not petulant. But nothing in any of your posts indicate that the issue lies with my use of foul language. If anything, it seems to me you were simply being dismissive of a poster going against the grain by sharing an unpopular opinion, rather than disparaging someone who was mucking up the thread by swearing like a sailor. I suppose Samhiuy referring to my post as "just horrible" and making assumptions about my age and maturity don't amount to any hostility in your eyes? You only need to scroll up to see I was polite when you were dismissive. Petulant: childishly sulky or bad tempered. So, uh, yes, your self described "immature" post where you say fuck this show fuck this shit falls pretty neatly under petulant. Samhiuy responded to your hostility with hostility. I didn't come rushing to his defense or anything, so I don't know why you bothered to bring it up. I merely pointed out your hostility makes your post more likely to be seen as bait. Give me a few minutes, and I'll edit in responses to your actual criticism. EDIT: Fuck this anime and fuck the main characters in particular. I am so done with the slow boiling shit show of a plot and its nonsensical development. Rin Tohsaka is up there with the worst protagonist I can think of, not because she is incompetent, but because she is competent but chooses not to be, or rather, because she isn't allowed to be. The writers insist on playing this tsundere addled romantic subplot for all its worth, to the point it has turned her into a complete idiot that has abandoned rationality and basic strategy in favour of playing nice with her love interest, who for some reason is like black hole for reasonable thoughts. At least Archer called her out on that shit this episode. Never mind the fact that we've been fed the same bullshit excuse why she hasn't simply taken Emiya out of the Holy Grail War for, I dunno, at least four episodes before the writers made it so abundantly clear these two were going to be allies, we still have to deal with Rin being a complete fuckwit that for some reasons sees fit to leave her Servant at home like he's a pet instead of her primary means of survival in a clandestine mage war that could claim her life at any minute, now Emiya pulled a typical shōnen power up that conveniently allowed him to fight off a mage that rekt Saber. Really, fuck this anime. fate/zero shits on it from biblical heights. It's not even funny how terrible this is by comparison. I don't know what I was expecting, considering the high school setting and knowing that fate/stay had a bad reputation long before I got into either anime. I'm pretty much fed up with this. I'd drop it if the first half wasn't nearly over. I'm going to need the 3 month gap to get over my disappointment. You say you don't like Rin because you believe she is competent and chooses not to be. Given the nature of your description, is it safe to assume you wish she were a cold-hearted magus who would body bag Shirou without a second thought and move on? If that's what you want from her, then you're going to be disappointed. Whether you like it or not, that isn't who Rin really is. She was partially raised that way, but (for better or worse) Rin clearly isn't the ice cold magus that Tokiomi was. I find her struggle between her magus upbringing and respect for the ideals of her father and the mages versus her more human nature to be a good point. If your issues are purely with her tactics and strategies for the war, then I don't think you're giving her enough credit. Her initial team up with Shirou is pretty defensible. Even if Shirou seems useless and doesn't know shit, he has access to Saber, one of the stronger servants. Further, his uninformed but friendly disposition make for an ally she can not only count on to listen to her for the most part, but also likely not betray her. Her decision not to bring Archer to school on the day of the Bloodfort Andromeda incident is a decision to try and keep the alliance between them going. Her decision not to bring Archer to the Kuzuki fight is two fold: first, since it is a planned ambush against a lone Master, she felt safe in assuming that two Masters and one Servant would be enough, even if Caster showed, considering Caster is weaker outside of her own territory and they should have the element of surprise; second, given the way Archer has been pressuring her, it might not be a good idea to let Archer into a confrontation with Caster, although he is compelled not to hurt Shirou, Rin only has one command left and Archer seems increasingly likely to rebel or take his own course. As for your criticism on Shirou being a "black hole for reasonable thoughts" it should be clear to you by now that Shirou isn't quite normal. He has a serious complex, initiated by the fire from the end of the last Grail War. His ideal and reason for joining the war, to save everyone and be a hero may indeed be untested and naive, but I wouldn't call it a bad ideal. It is noble, at the very least. Further, Shirou is a newcomer to the entire idea of the Grail War and what it entails. He has made moves over the course of the series so far to adapt to the Grail War, such as training in swordplay, allowing Saber to guard him more closely at night, and coming to grips with the knowledge that nowhere is safe, even during the middle of the day during school and under his own roof with a Servant nearby. Give the guy a break. He's not gonna be Mr. Murder Machine like Kiritsugu, but he is actively trying to adapt to the war, while dealing with challenges to his ideals and beliefs. As for Shirou's projection in the most recent episode: projection is something he has been able to do, but he was told it was useless in comparison to strengthening by Kiritsugu, and so he dismissed it's usefulness. Rin agrees with the statement, indicating that projection is commonly thought of to be either useless, or not worth the cost. Shirou projects because he is out of options, his weapon is broken, they are going to die, and he needs a weapon. Clearly, it isn't easy for him, and it harms him. If you're interested in the complete breakdown of Shirou's projection and how it works, you can read the VN or ask someone to explain it in more detail, because this post is already getting long. It is consistent with the given universe thus so far, and in no way breaks any rules or laws. I don't believe Fate/Zero is necessarily superior, and I definitely don't believe it "shits all over it" when you compare the first 10 episodes of F/Z to UBW. I'll leave the final comparison for which one is better until we have a complete UBW so I can judge them both as a whole. I find your critique of the "high school setting" to be a preference, and not an inherent fact of quality. A setting is a backdrop, a place and situation in which the characters interact. There is no rule that a highschool setting must suck and a non-highschool setting is great. I'm not sure what reputation of F/SN you are referring to. F/SN, as far as I know among VNs, is much loved. If you are talking about the F/SN anime by studio DEEN, then most people don't like it. It is a butchered adaptation of the first of 3 entirely separate routes from the VN, where they then further butchered it by throwing events from the separate routes into it. Feel free to get back to me on more specific complaints, or if I misinterpreted something you said, let me know what you meant. |
ANGRY2011Dec 13, 2014 6:57 PM
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TheIMF said: ANGRY2011 said: Obviously frustrated or not, it does make you look childish. I find it funny you call our reaction of thinking it was bait petulant, but your post looks the most petulant of all. I mean, what do you expect when you come into the show's forum and basically say "Fuck this shit its terrible goddamn." You can blow it off as us being offended with "virgin eyes," but it establishes you as hostile and does imply that you're looking to get in a fight or rile people up, hence, bait. I'll respond to your actual criticisms in another post, if you want. I don't follow your reasoning. My initial post was not petulant by any known meaning of the word. Immature, outlandish, crude, yes - but not petulant. But nothing in any of your posts indicate that the issue lies with my use of foul language. If anything, it seems to me you were simply being dismissive of a poster going against the grain by sharing an unpopular opinion, rather than disparaging someone who was mucking up the thread by swearing like a sailor. I suppose Samhiuy referring to my post as "just horrible" and making assumptions about my age and maturity don't amount to any hostility in your eyes? You only need to scroll up to see I was polite when you were dismissive. Please do actually respond to my actual criticism if you're so inclined. Hm, ok, I will spent some time to argue with you. First, about Rin's easy going on Shirou: will be revealed later on. Or you want spoiler? Second, about not bringing Archer along: how many time Archer shows that he cannot be trusted already? - he tried to nuke Saber out with Berserker - he is fine with Caster's actions and lets her go - he tried to kill Shirou - he insulted Rider and distanced himself with other 3 - he suggested allying with Caster Yeah, and you want to be spoiled more about this? Btw, did you see that Rin told Archer that she was weird because Archer shows her "weird things like that"? |
Just_ChickenDec 13, 2014 6:37 PM
| DAMN! Saber can't catch a break. She got put on her ass again! Good episode overall, Shirou had a brief moment but Kuzuki get's all the praise this episode, Fucking Beast! |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
chickenonthepan said: TheIMF said: I don't follow your reasoning. My initial post was not petulant by any known meaning of the word. Immature, outlandish, crude, yes - but not petulant. But nothing in any of your posts indicate that the issue lies with my use of foul language. If anything, it seems to me you were simply being dismissive of a poster going against the grain by sharing an unpopular opinion, rather than disparaging someone who was mucking up the thread by swearing like a sailor. I suppose Samhiuy referring to my post as "just horrible" and making assumptions about my age and maturity don't amount to any hostility in your eyes? You only need to scroll up to see I was polite when you were dismissive. Please do actually respond to my actual criticism if you're so inclined. Hm, ok, I will spent some time to argue with you. First, about Rin's easy going on Shirou: will be revealed later on. Or you want spoiler? Second, about not bringing Archer along: how many time Archer shows that he cannot be trusted already? - he tried to nuke Saber out with Berserker - he is fine with Caster's actions and lets her go - he tried to kill Shirou - he insulted Rider and distanced himself with other 3 - he suggest allying with Caster Yeah, and you want to be spoiled more about this? Well said. Also what about F/SN being a high school slice of life in comparison to F/Z being this super duper mature adult orientated anime with adults doing adult things!? |
LoomyTheBrew said: Well said. Also what about F/SN being a high school slice of life in comparison to F/Z being this super duper mature adult orientated anime with adults doing adult things!? His favorites are Dragon Ball, One piece, Naruto, so I guess he has no problem with "shounen". Also about FZ, look at Waver. |
nocorras said: Ok I'll reply to you TheIMF I appreciate the effort, and while I did not previously consider Emiya had an an affinity for swords, you don't seem to be actually addressing my complaints with the development of the story. I get that Emiya and Rin are two individuals that are very much set in their ways, they hold different values and moral and operate by different codes of conduct, for the most part anyway, but I don't see how this mitigates, for example, Rin's insistence on sidelining her Servant even though that is such a dangerous risk to take. Praland said: Inb4 fanboys card I wouldn't dream of it, what with such wonderful responses such as fairypriest said: guys just ignore the mongrel and lets get back to our discussion nocorras said: What you are failing to understand is that you are an idiot and should not be able to voice an opinion. xcllnt said: This is not a remake, it is a new adaptation of the second route of Fate/stay night. DEEN "adapted" the first route of the VN (Fate). They included a few scenes from the other two routes Unlimited Blade Works and Heaven's Feel. They also added some random stuff which absolutely made no sense at all. It was pretty bad compared to the source material. I don't even want to talk about their UBW movie since the quality of a movie which tries to "convert" 15-20 hours of source material into ~120 minutes should be obvious. The reason why people who have read the VN get upset so easily in this thread is because they have to deal with provocative posts every day. These comments are almost always made by first time watchers who don't know the source material. They try to judge or compare the currently airing F/SN to the completed Fate/Zero which just does not work. You can't do that and people should realize that this is bullshit. If F/SN has so many fans and defenders who try to argue with aggressive users all day long, there should be a reason for that (like the source material being really, really good), don't you think so? Thank you, this clears a few things up for me. I wouldn't have known these things as an anime only viewer. I've often head of snobbism in fate communities, and I think I know what the people I've spoken to were referring to. I understand that you might find it tedious to deal with people who haven't read the novels and are thus ignorant on matters you are knowledgable on, but I think it's worth keeping mind that these type of adaptations are never made for fans of the original source material. Think of it as comic book movie adaptations. The average moviegoer has no idea what the comics are actually about, nor can they appreciate the difference, subtle or obvious, and neither can the majority of anime only viewers. It's not my intent to come across as hostile, and I stand by my previous statement that I wasn't. Blowing off some steam and expressing frustrations should not be taken as hostility. Aurioch said: Sigh... I should simply save this and c/p next time... No, this isn't just a remake. Visual novel has 3 distinct routes: Fate route, Unlimited Blade Works route and Heaven's Feel route, intended to be read in that order. Story in all three routes chronologically happens at the same time in 3 parallel universes, with Shirou making different decisions and, as a result, having three different stories being told. This anime is the adaptation of the 2nd route, Unlimited Blade Works, which splits off from Fate route on the 3rd day (Episode 1) when Shirou unconsciously uses Command Spell to stop Saber from attacking Archer. From there on, events in Fate and UBW unfold differently. Fate/Stay Night (2006), on the other hand, is the failed attempt of the Fate route adaptation as Studio DEEN not only tried to forcefully shoehorn UBW and HF elements into it, but also misrepresented all characters (except maybe Saber). That adaptation is the reason why Fate/Stay Night as a whole has bad reputation. Keep in mind that this is the adaptation of the visual novel, two entirely different mediums. Visual Novel is sort of book which also has background images, some animation, voice acting, sound effects and sometimes minigames and nice user interface. As such, primary storytelling method are words, not visuals, and most of the Shirou's development is told through his monologues; some of which can be easily translated to visuals in the anime, and some not. Also, order of the things was changed here and there (in the VN, Shirou's projection was foreshadowed while ufotable used "reveal then explain" method), which sometimes makes things clearer and sometimes adds some confusion. Thank you, this is a particularly eye-opening post. I was only vaguely aware of the visual novels and assumed they were all part of one big narrative, but that belief was evidently wrong. |
faderunnerDec 13, 2014 6:47 PM
TheIMF said: I don't see how this mitigates, for example, Rin's insistence on sidelining her Servant even though that is such a dangerous risk to take. Err, read my post. It is above. Nvm, I will repost here: About not bringing Archer along: how many time Archer shows that he cannot be trusted already? - he tried to nuke Saber out with Berserker - he is fine with Caster's actions and lets her go - he tried to kill Shirou - he insulted Rider and distanced himself with other 3 - he suggested allying with Caster Yeah, and you want to be spoiled more about this? Btw, did you see that Rin told Archer that she was weird because Archer shows her "weird things like that"? |
LoomyTheBrew said: chickenonthepan said: Hm, ok, I will spent some time to argue with you. First, about Rin's easy going on Shirou: will be revealed later on. Or you want spoiler? Second, about not bringing Archer along: how many time Archer shows that he cannot be trusted already? - he tried to nuke Saber out with Berserker - he is fine with Caster's actions and lets her go - he tried to kill Shirou - he insulted Rider and distanced himself with other 3 - he suggest allying with Caster Yeah, and you want to be spoiled more about this? Well said. Also what about F/SN being a high school slice of life in comparison to F/Z being this super duper mature adult orientated anime with adults doing adult things!? I find people who complain about the high school and SoL elements in F/SN to be some arbitrary knock against it. These two things do not have some intrinsic negative value to them that automatically makes something worse. I find it especially odd when the high school setting gets brought up simply because it's probably the most irrelevant part of the show. It's about as relevant as it was in Tsukihime, clearly Nasu doesn't give a fuck about high school that much and just uses it because he happens to write about young characters. As for SoL stuff, again it isn't this inherently bad thing it's just some weak attempt to devalue the show. It's all about execution and considering this show typically uses it to show some character development and define the relationships between the characters and to simply just have a few defining character moments puts it to good use in my eyes. Oh well, what can you do with people that just want to blindly lash out and call something shit due to their own subjective bias. =P |
TheIMF said: It's not my intent to come across as hostile, and I stand by my previous statement that I wasn't. Blowing off some steam and expressing frustrations should not be taken as hostility. You need to realize that 98% of people that make posts like you did are completely hostile and usually spill the anger all over the thread. This applies to every anime forum in existence, so you can't blame people for thinking that you were hostile because you definitely seemed like your were very hostile. |
| Rejoice! Aside from the epilogue, there will be no more high-school in the 2nd cour. ...Does that count as a spoiler? |
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Shintai said: LoomyTheBrew said: Well said. Also what about F/SN being a high school slice of life in comparison to F/Z being this super duper mature adult orientated anime with adults doing adult things!? I find people who complain about the high school and SoL elements in F/SN to be some arbitrary knock against it. These two things do not have some intrinsic negative value to them that automatically makes something worse. I find it especially odd when the high school setting gets brought up simply because it's probably the most irrelevant part of the show. It's about as relevant as it was in Tsukihime, clearly Nasu doesn't give a fuck about high school that much and just uses it because he happens to write about young characters. As for SoL stuff, again it isn't this inherently bad thing it's just some weak attempt to devalue the show. It's all about execution and considering this show typically uses it to show some character development and define the relationships between the characters and to simply just have a few defining character moments puts it to good use in my eyes. Oh well, what can you do with people that just want to blindly lash out and call something shit due to their own subjective bias. =P I completely agree. I for one actually like the SoL elements for the reasons you stated and it's nice to have some down time every now and then. |
| I'm posting my edit onto my last post here again, because the forums move fairly fast and I don't know if it will be lost. TheIMF said: Fuck this anime and fuck the main characters in particular. I am so done with the slow boiling shit show of a plot and its nonsensical development. Rin Tohsaka is up there with the worst protagonist I can think of, not because she is incompetent, but because she is competent but chooses not to be, or rather, because she isn't allowed to be. The writers insist on playing this tsundere addled romantic subplot for all its worth, to the point it has turned her into a complete idiot that has abandoned rationality and basic strategy in favour of playing nice with her love interest, who for some reason is like black hole for reasonable thoughts. At least Archer called her out on that shit this episode. Never mind the fact that we've been fed the same bullshit excuse why she hasn't simply taken Emiya out of the Holy Grail War for, I dunno, at least four episodes before the writers made it so abundantly clear these two were going to be allies, we still have to deal with Rin being a complete fuckwit that for some reasons sees fit to leave her Servant at home like he's a pet instead of her primary means of survival in a clandestine mage war that could claim her life at any minute, now Emiya pulled a typical shōnen power up that conveniently allowed him to fight off a mage that rekt Saber. Really, fuck this anime. fate/zero shits on it from biblical heights. It's not even funny how terrible this is by comparison. I don't know what I was expecting, considering the high school setting and knowing that fate/stay had a bad reputation long before I got into either anime. I'm pretty much fed up with this. I'd drop it if the first half wasn't nearly over. I'm going to need the 3 month gap to get over my disappointment. You say you don't like Rin because you believe she is competent and chooses not to be. Given the nature of your description, is it safe to assume you wish she were a cold-hearted magus who would body bag Shirou without a second thought and move on? If that's what you want from her, then you're going to be disappointed. Whether you like it or not, that isn't who Rin really is. She was partially raised that way, but (for better or worse) Rin clearly isn't the ice cold magus that Tokiomi was. I find her struggle between her magus upbringing and respect for the ideals of her father and the mages versus her more human nature to be a good point. If your issues are purely with her tactics and strategies for the war, then I don't think you're giving her enough credit. Her initial team up with Shirou is pretty defensible. Even if Shirou seems useless and doesn't know shit, he has access to Saber, one of the stronger servants. Further, his uninformed but friendly disposition make for an ally she can not only count on to listen to her for the most part, but also likely not betray her. Her decision not to bring Archer to school on the day of the Bloodfort Andromeda incident is a decision to try and keep the alliance between them going. Her decision not to bring Archer to the Kuzuki fight is two fold: first, since it is a planned ambush against a lone Master, she felt safe in assuming that two Masters and one Servant would be enough, even if Caster showed, considering Caster is weaker outside of her own territory and they should have the element of surprise; second, given the way Archer has been pressuring her, it might not be a good idea to let Archer into a confrontation with Caster, although he is compelled not to hurt Shirou, Rin only has one command left and Archer seems increasingly likely to rebel or take his own course. As for your criticism on Shirou being a "black hole for reasonable thoughts" it should be clear to you by now that Shirou isn't quite normal. He has a serious complex, initiated by the fire from the end of the last Grail War. His ideal and reason for joining the war, to save everyone and be a hero may indeed be untested and naive, but I wouldn't call it a bad ideal. It is noble, at the very least. Further, Shirou is a newcomer to the entire idea of the Grail War and what it entails. He has made moves over the course of the series so far to adapt to the Grail War, such as training in swordplay, allowing Saber to guard him more closely at night, and coming to grips with the knowledge that nowhere is safe, even during the middle of the day during school and under his own roof with a Servant nearby. Give the guy a break. He's not gonna be Mr. Murder Machine like Kiritsugu, but he is actively trying to adapt to the war, while dealing with challenges to his ideals and beliefs. As for Shirou's projection in the most recent episode: projection is something he has been able to do, but he was told it was useless in comparison to strengthening by Kiritsugu, and so he dismissed it's usefulness. Rin agrees with the statement, indicating that projection is commonly thought of to be either useless, or not worth the cost. Shirou projects because he is out of options, his weapon is broken, they are going to die, and he needs a weapon. Clearly, it isn't easy for him, and it harms him. If you're interested in the complete breakdown of Shirou's projection and how it works, you can read the VN or ask someone to explain it in more detail, because this post is already getting long. It is consistent with the given universe thus so far, and in no way breaks any rules or laws. I don't believe Fate/Zero is necessarily superior, and I definitely don't believe it "shits all over it" when you compare the first 10 episodes of F/Z to UBW. I'll leave the final comparison for which one is better until we have a complete UBW so I can judge them both as a whole. I find your critique of the "high school setting" to be a preference, and not an inherent fact of quality. A setting is a backdrop, a place and situation in which the characters interact. There is no rule that a highschool setting must suck and a non-highschool setting is great. I'm not sure what reputation of F/SN you are referring to. F/SN, as far as I know among VNs, is much loved. If you are talking about the F/SN anime by studio DEEN, then most people don't like it. It is a butchered adaptation of the first of 3 entirely separate routes from the VN, where they then further butchered it by throwing events from the separate routes into it. Feel free to get back to me on more specific complaints, or if I misinterpreted something you said, let me know what you meant. |
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TheIMF said: Aurioch said: Thank you, this is a particularly eye-opening post. I was only vaguely aware of the visual novels and assumed they were all part of one big narrative, but that belief was evidently wrong. No problem. I just forgot the mention that main characteristic of the visual novels is that story is not linear. Usually, to get the whole picture, one has to read through the VN completely as some routes deal with the overall plot through different point of view or reveal other things about the world or characters. So, in a way, VN is one big narrative, told through multiple different stories in the same setting and with same characters. UBW adaptation partly suffers from the lack of proper Fate adaptation; for example, the amount of exposition in UBW could be reduced by some amount as Fate route deals with most of the exposition, and certain things from Fate route are to some extent necessary in order to better understand UBW route. Now, considering this is an adaptation of the part of the original, some things have to be changed. One of those is that we have a lot less monologues from Shirou - less than some of us would want to - because it's two different mediums which require two different approaches. For example, while VN established early that Shirou cares more about others than about his own life, I'm not sure if anime managed to translate that correctly, which leads to people who don't want to think to call Shirou "typical shonen hero". I hope that, after all this, you can understand why we VN readers are snappy when it comes to non-elaborated negative posts. Especially when it comes from people who either don't bother researching more about the source material or dismiss adaptation (or even the original) because "it's another shonen anime put in high school". |
astroprogs said: If HF ended up being a single movie, what would it need to do so it can get a high score from all of you? Not air. |
LoomyTheBrew said: See, you're first post is an emotional wreck and it looks like you just want to get in a petty argument and get a rise out of people. Then coming in after you post it and be like, "What guys? You can't respond to my criticisms?" Isn't helping your case either. If you want to criticize the show that's fine, but do it in a mature way where you're not calling the show shit and claiming things that really aren't true at all. "Emotional wreck" is a tad loaded, but okay, as I already admitted, that post came from a place of frustration. Does that invalidate its contents entirely? I don't see why it should. I suppose dog-piling and conflating an perceived attack on an object with a personal attack is the mature way of responding to my post then, yes? SwordHand said: You make a blatantly provocative initial post then back down and refuse to shoulder the implications of acting "immature, outlandish, and crude" Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning Samhiuy's conjectures aren't as baseless as you think. Ad hominem are by definition fallacious. None of you seem to actually address any of my criticism and fixate entirely on my person with accusations of provoking and hostility on top of outright dismissive response and insults. I find it almost endearing you would hold yourselves as pillars of cordiality and maturity when you have exercised none whatsoever. ANGRY2011 said: Petulant: childishly sulky or bad tempered. So, uh, yes, your self described "immature" post where you say fuck this show fuck this shit falls pretty neatly under petulant. Samhiuy responded to your hostility with hostility. I didn't come rushing to his defense or anything, so I don't know why you bothered to bring it up. I merely pointed out your hostility makes your post more likely to be seen as bait. You may want to look up the definition of sulking while you're at it. I think my conduct thus far makes it quite clear I am not ill tempered either. Samhiuy has many more issues than an unpopular opinion to deal with if he conflates an attack on something he likes with himself. You do, too, if you share that view. chickenonthepan said: Hm, ok, I will spent some time to argue with you. First, about Rin's easy going on Shirou: will be revealed later on. Or you want spoiler? Second, about not bringing Archer along: how many time Archer shows that he cannot be trusted already? - he tried to nuke Saber out with Berserker - he is fine with Caster's actions and lets her go - he tried to kill Shirou - he insulted Rider and distanced himself with other 3 - he suggested allying with Caster Yeah, and you want to be spoiled more about this? Btw, did you see that Rin told Archer that she was weird because Archer shows her "weird things like that"? I'd rather not be spoiled on anything, thanks. Archer nearly nuked Saber before they were allies, correct? He tried killing Emiya when he was on his own, he wouldn't have had that opportunity, nor do I think would he have been stupid enough to try, had he been with them with both Rin and Saber present. Archer's indifference to atrocities and suggestion to working with the Caster may not make him particularly trustworthy, but I question Rin's judgment in outright sidelining him, leaving him once again without her supervision to potentially do as he pleases, whilst leaving herself dependent on Saber and Emiya. I'm not clear what your last sentence is referring to, so I'm assuming I either didn't catch it or it wasn't mentioned in the episode. |
TheIMF said: I'd rather not be spoiled on anything, thanks. Archer nearly nuked Saber before they were allies, correct? He tried killing Emiya when he was on his own, he wouldn't have had that opportunity, nor do I think would he have been stupid enough to try, had he been with them with both Rin and Saber present. Archer's indifference to atrocities and suggestion to working with the Caster may not make him particularly trustworthy, but I question Rin's judgment in outright sidelining him, leaving him once again without her supervision to potentially do as he pleases, whilst leaving herself dependent on Saber and Emiya. This is in spoiler territory. When the time comes, you will go: "oh, so that was what she feared. She is right after all." It makes sense, trust me. note that Shirou and Saber both go "what is she thinking?" in the episode. So her "nonsensical" actions are intended and have a reason behind them. I'm not clear what your last sentence is referring to, so I'm assuming I either didn't catch it or it wasn't mentioned in the episode. it's in the episode. Rewatch the conversation between Rin and Archer. |
TheIMF said: LoomyTheBrew said: See, you're first post is an emotional wreck and it looks like you just want to get in a petty argument and get a rise out of people. Then coming in after you post it and be like, "What guys? You can't respond to my criticisms?" Isn't helping your case either. If you want to criticize the show that's fine, but do it in a mature way where you're not calling the show shit and claiming things that really aren't true at all. "Emotional wreck" is a tad loaded, but okay, as I already admitted, that post came from a place of frustration. Does that invalidate its contents entirely? I don't see why it should. I suppose dog-piling and conflating an perceived attack on an object with a personal attack is the mature way of responding to my post then, yes? SwordHand said: You make a blatantly provocative initial post then back down and refuse to shoulder the implications of acting "immature, outlandish, and crude" Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning Samhiuy's conjectures aren't as baseless as you think. Ad hominem are by definition fallacious. None of you seem to actually address any of my criticism and fixate entirely on my person with accusations of provoking and hostility on top of outright dismissive response and insults. I find it almost endearing you would hold yourselves as pillars of cordiality and maturity when you have exercised none whatsoever. ANGRY2011 said: Petulant: childishly sulky or bad tempered. So, uh, yes, your self described "immature" post where you say fuck this show fuck this shit falls pretty neatly under petulant. Samhiuy responded to your hostility with hostility. I didn't come rushing to his defense or anything, so I don't know why you bothered to bring it up. I merely pointed out your hostility makes your post more likely to be seen as bait. You may want to look up the definition of sulking while you're at it. I think my conduct thus far makes it quite clear I am not ill tempered either. Samhiuy has many more issues than an unpopular opinion to deal with if he conflates an attack on something he likes with himself. You do, too, if you share that view. chickenonthepan said: Hm, ok, I will spent some time to argue with you. First, about Rin's easy going on Shirou: will be revealed later on. Or you want spoiler? Second, about not bringing Archer along: how many time Archer shows that he cannot be trusted already? - he tried to nuke Saber out with Berserker - he is fine with Caster's actions and lets her go - he tried to kill Shirou - he insulted Rider and distanced himself with other 3 - he suggested allying with Caster Yeah, and you want to be spoiled more about this? Btw, did you see that Rin told Archer that she was weird because Archer shows her "weird things like that"? I'd rather not be spoiled on anything, thanks. Archer nearly nuked Saber before they were allies, correct? He tried killing Emiya when he was on his own, he wouldn't have had that opportunity, nor do I think would he have been stupid enough to try, had he been with them with both Rin and Saber present. Archer's indifference to atrocities and suggestion to working with the Caster may not make him particularly trustworthy, but I question Rin's judgment in outright sidelining him, leaving him once again without her supervision to potentially do as he pleases, whilst leaving herself dependent on Saber and Emiya. I'm not clear what your last sentence is referring to, so I'm assuming I either didn't catch it or it wasn't mentioned in the episode. After the dream she had of him she said I know I'm not myself but it's because you show me those things. The dream is very very important. |
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| shit, these some long-ass posts Man, this seems like a pretty heated debate right here. |
| And I mean that in the most sexually painful way possible. |
TheIMF said: ANGRY2011 said: Petulant: childishly sulky or bad tempered. So, uh, yes, your self described "immature" post where you say fuck this show fuck this shit falls pretty neatly under petulant. Samhiuy responded to your hostility with hostility. I didn't come rushing to his defense or anything, so I don't know why you bothered to bring it up. I merely pointed out your hostility makes your post more likely to be seen as bait. You may want to look up the definition of sulking while you're at it. I think my conduct thus far makes it quite clear I am not ill tempered either. Samhiuy has many more issues than an unpopular opinion to deal with if he conflates an attack on something he likes with himself. You do, too, if you share that view. My statement was about your initial post, which appeared rather ill-tempered. I still feel pretty right about calling your first post petulant. Your subsequent posts have been much more reasonable, and I have not attacked them. I still haven't excused or defended any attacks against you, but pointed out that your (perceived) hostility was met with hostility. There's no inherent approval or disapproval in that statement from me. It is just a fact, as in that's what happened. Also, I did respond to your initial post criticisms, if you want to take a look and discuss, they are in two of my posts. |
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| Analogy: If your best friend seriously dislikes and even has tried to murder the person you're falling in love, if not already in love, with, then you probably wouldn't try to keep them together. Especially if your best friend is being increasingly weird. |
-kV- said: Analogy: If your best friend seriously dislikes and even has tried to murder the person you're falling in love, if not already in love, with, then you probably wouldn't try to keep them together. Especially if your best friend is being increasingly weird. Nuh uh. Not when your best friend protects you in a presently ongoing war. You would take him regardless, even if he has openly stated of wanting to ally with your enemy. |
| It seems that Saber was schooled by the teacher. It was a fantastic episode once aggain. |
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| @TheIMF: Rin has already been shown to be by far smarter than Tokiomi in F/Z, which will only be emphasized in the 2nd cour. Your "criticism" makes no sense. I guess you have been affected by the nostalgia factor, or as always, only have the last 3 EPs and highlights of the whole F/Z anime in mind, which you compare to the not yet even half-completed story of F/sn: UBW. But I am used to people acting like that, so w/e. |
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JabonHR said: shit, these some long-ass posts Man, this seems like a pretty heated debate right here. All in the name of my entertainment and curiosity as to how far up his ass the mongrel has placed his head. |
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| Caster and the teacher having the potential to be my fav master servant pairing aside from Rider and Waver.Teacher dude seems like a slick laid back mofo who don't give a shit unless it's involving what he concerns himself with and Caster just has great style and a cool dagger.Normally I either dislike either a master or servant, or don't like them together. |
| Jaywalker. |
| Great episode, good fights and good soundtrack, the development of the plot also took an important step with Shirou materializing their swords I wanted to see more fights Archer, I really like your method of battle, but the teacher also fought well in this episode, that strong guy And one of the characters I have more anger, Blondie, seems to be increasingly coming into the story This anime really holds my attention .. |
TyrelDec 14, 2014 12:36 AM
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| That teacher so strong. Able to take on Saber. I wonder who is stronger. Kirei or the teacher. |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
| Well I finally got to watch the episode. Rin's dream was beautiful, would not want it done any other way. Apart from all the obvious greatness the one thing that stuck with me this episode was the OST. Really felt theatrical and brought everything up to an A+ Shirou's projection felt well overblown, but I guess Ufotable just like's making everything big and epic XD. Shirou throwing in a copied combo was a nice touch, Kuzuki getting pushed back shows just how much he wasn't expecting it. lol @ the people who think this means Shirou>Saber. Your powerlevels have no place here XD Edit* Oh and that snake hit to the back of the neck was exactly what I was looking for. Kuzuki/10 ufotable. |
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drama_menck said: Great episode, good fights and good soundtrack, the development of the plot also took an important step with Shirou materializing their swords I wanted to see more fights Archer, I really like your method of battle, but the teacher also fought well in this episode, that strong guy And one of the characters I have more anger, blonde foreigner, seems to be increasingly coming into the story This anime really holds my attention .. Change your spoiler to blonde foreigner please, people who haven't seen F/Z or read the VN don't know who he is yet. You will get to see more Archer having some epic battles, don't you worry about that |
Zapredon said: Are you joking? I would have buried the four-eyes idiot.That teacher so strong. Able to take on Saber. I wonder who is stronger. Kirei or the teacher. |
I am the Priest of my church Yuetsu is my body, and wine is my blood I have trolled over a thousand users Unknown to sympathy, nor known to apathy Withstood Shirou to eat Mapo Tofu Yet, my question will never be answered So as I rejoice, Unlimited Kirei Works! |
| Lol Issei.... "Issei, I'd like to know, as well." Issei guarded himself, remember back the previous episode xD Seems Shirou does like Archer's swords. Kuzuki-sensei is as badass as always~ |
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