Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season - Kanketsu-hen Episode 2 Discussion

@otherhalfling Check now looks like its 8.5 now

The worst ending in the anime industry

@Daroman How can you say that while keeping Neon Genesis Evangeline in your favourite ? Lol

@ZXEAN Unlike Attack on Titan, the character arcs for the main cast in Evangelion culminate in ways consistent with what's been previously established as opposed to the utterly ridiculous, laughable, unearned, and non-sequitur 180° Eren/Armin Paths conversation that turns both their characters into total blithering idiots that contradict themselves with some of the most cringe-inducing dialogue I've ever seen in an ending (not what you want for an impactful finale that we're supposed to care about), which is by far the worst aspect of the ending, apart from the plot holes, ridiculous last-minute twists, and retcons (Mikasa somehow randomly being the one meant to free Ymir even though Eren already did this cause reasons, Only Ymir Knows! Zeke's death stopping the Rumbling even though Eren had already freed Ymir of Fritz's curse that bound her to the commands of those with royal blood. Eren manipulating Mikasa's memory in 138 despite her being an Ackerman and Asian, meaning she should be unaffected by the Founder's powers. The entirety of Eren's clairvoyance powers creating multiple problems such as him sending Dina to kill his mother so that BERTHOLDT WOULDN'T DIE YET, WHICH MEANS HE CAN CHANGE THE COURSE OF PAST EVENTS OPENING UP POTENTIALLY DOZENS OF PLOT HOLES.)

Evangelion didn't pull punches, but Attack on Titan did. And the point isn't to be DARK or EDGY to be DARK and EDGY for the sake of it, the point is to follow through on what you've set up, deliver the payoff. And the buildup to the ending was for a payoff significantly more serious than what we got, which was a weird tonally mixed and tonally clashing ending where characters that should have died didn't and make dumb jokes right after 80% OF HUMANITY GOT GENOCIDED (Reiner sniffing the letter, Annie saying "But I'm Military Police" after Armin's line about Scouts not knowing when to quit, fucking ridiculous, is this a parody?). When you violate this, it becomes clear you're just dicking around randomly as a writer and your characters are schizophrenic puppets with no internal consistency that will do whatever random bullshit you need them to do in order to move the plot to the conclusion you want.

Levi should have died, Reiner should have died. A few other people probably should have died but Levi and Reiner ABSOLUTELY NEEDED TO DIE in order for their character arcs to resolve in a meaningful way because them dying is what Isayama was setting them up for the entire time but he chickened out because he wanted to give people a happy ending (What he did was give people an ending with a confused and mismatched tone, aspects of the ending are way too happy for what the story had been driving towards, basically the main cast gets too happy of an ending all around, but then war repeats itself without end, which is darker and more cynical. Just tonally a complete mess, utterly discordant.)

Why do I care so much that I wrote these huge paragraphs 99% of the people that check this thread won't read? Because I've been following AoT since I was 13 and I'm now 25, I've been invested in this for almost half my life, and I thought and still think that 80% to 85% of it is fantastic, which is why it's so frustrating and disappointing to see such excellent writing implode on itself and all go to waste like this.

@YamsMuncher Yep! It looks like the original influx of hate-votes did, indeed, have a massive influence on the early score. Glad to see the anime fans are a lot happier with the ending than the manga readeers were. Even if I don't think it was a good ending, personally, it seems like a lot more fans are happy with it than I expected! I'm glad they were able to get something out of it.

@Old_School_Akira It's so painfully bad, and people are eating it right up. Normoids will happily consume whatever slop you put in front of them with a smile.

@Daroman I get it that you might be salty about people liking stuff that you dislike, or be upset because of that, but is it really necessary to be rude towards an unspecified group of said people enjoying watching this show? It's inelegant and immature, if you ask me.

@Adnash You're reducing it to sound like it's a simple matter of taste and not more than that, and most of the time I have no issue with recognizing that someone and I just value different things and thus evaluate a piece of work differently, but in this case it's everyone praising a bevy of braindead idiotic trainwreck writing decisions, decisions that if evaluated using a typical standard of critique and not evaluated via passive consumption instantly lead you to the inescapable conclusion that the ending is a disaster. Plot holes, rushed pacing, tonal clashing, characters turned into idiotic shells of their former selves. To me, it was clear as day the moment I read the last chapter. To me, this is like you guys saying that the grass is blue and the sky is green while I keep repeating that the grass is green and the sky is blue.

And I'm fine with being immature, I don't care about that. I could be a lot more rude than I have been considering that the standard ending defender response I see is just blatant strawmanning and misrepresentation of what the bulk of ending hater criticisms are.

@Daroman Well, generalizing people or implying that their general traits indicate certain, specified stances, are something negative by default, but from what I understood you prefer to go that way when interacting with others. It can't be helped, then.

Anyway, too bad that you didn't like the show as a whole, no matter the reasons and whether you value more story to audiovisual aspects of it, or vice versa. Thanks for at least giving it a try. Have a nice day.

I wonder if there ever will be something like this again. A story I can engage with and obsess with doesn't come every day. AOT is life itself and is a story that needs to be passed on.

@Adnash Nah, I liked the series as a whole. That's why I care, because I've been following the series for 12 years and thought it was excellent, some of the best writing in the history of the medium up until the last 10% of it. That's why it's so frustrating, to watch so much potential be flushed down the drain after 12 years of investment and build-up.

Generalization being a factually incorrect or morally incorrect thing to engage in by default is a western moral dogma that I don't hold. Generalizations, as statements of statistical likelihood, are often correct. There are exceptions, but by and large people aren't particularly unique or special and I see the same tendencies, behaviors, ideas, and pieces of rhetoric exhibited by people over and over again. Unique people, by definition, aren't common.

I wonder if there ever will be something like this again. A story I can engage with and obsess with doesn't come every day. AOT is life itself and is a story that needs to be passed on.

@ZXEAN Unlike Attack on Titan, the character arcs for the main cast in Evangelion culminate in ways consistent with what's been previously established as opposed to the utterly ridiculous, laughable, unearned, and non-sequitur 180° Eren/Armin Paths conversation that turns both their characters into total blithering idiots that contradict themselves with some of the most cringe-inducing dialogue I've ever seen in an ending (not what you want for an impactful finale that we're supposed to care about), which is by far the worst aspect of the ending, apart from the plot holes, ridiculous last-minute twists, and retcons (Mikasa somehow randomly being the one meant to free Ymir even though Eren already did this cause reasons, Only Ymir Knows! Zeke's death stopping the Rumbling even though Eren had already freed Ymir of Fritz's curse that bound her to the commands of those with royal blood. Eren manipulating Mikasa's memory in 138 despite her being an Ackerman and Asian, meaning she should be unaffected by the Founder's powers. The entirety of Eren's clairvoyance powers creating multiple problems such as him sending Dina to kill his mother so that BERTHOLDT WOULDN'T DIE YET, WHICH MEANS HE CAN CHANGE THE COURSE OF PAST EVENTS OPENING UP POTENTIALLY DOZENS OF PLOT HOLES.)

Evangelion didn't pull punches, but Attack on Titan did. And the point isn't to be DARK or EDGY to be DARK and EDGY for the sake of it, the point is to follow through on what you've set up, deliver the payoff. And the buildup to the ending was for a payoff significantly more serious than what we got, which was a weird tonally mixed and tonally clashing ending where characters that should have died didn't and make dumb jokes right after 80% OF HUMANITY GOT GENOCIDED (Reiner sniffing the letter, Annie saying "But I'm Military Police" after Armin's line about Scouts not knowing when to quit, fucking ridiculous, is this a parody?). When you violate this, it becomes clear you're just dicking around randomly as a writer and your characters are schizophrenic puppets with no internal consistency that will do whatever random bullshit you need them to do in order to move the plot to the conclusion you want.

Levi should have died, Reiner should have died. A few other people probably should have died but Levi and Reiner ABSOLUTELY NEEDED TO DIE in order for their character arcs to resolve in a meaningful way because them dying is what Isayama was setting them up for the entire time but he chickened out because he wanted to give people a happy ending (What he did was give people an ending with a confused and mismatched tone, aspects of the ending are way too happy for what the story had been driving towards, basically the main cast gets too happy of an ending all around, but then war repeats itself without end, which is darker and more cynical. Just tonally a complete mess, utterly discordant.)

Why do I care so much that I wrote these huge paragraphs 99% of the people that check this thread won't read? Because I've been following AoT since I was 13 and I'm now 25, I've been invested in this for almost half my life, and I thought and still think that 80% to 85% of it is fantastic, which is why it's so frustrating and disappointing to see such excellent writing implode on itself and all go to waste like this.

@Daroman Ok. I can understand your frustration but seriously Neon Genesis Evangeline doesn't make any sense it was nothing but a headache.

@I_Am_Freeballing One Piece is still ongoing

@raffyzita I am caught up on OP in both anime and manga and it's a lot of fun. But I can't say it gripped me as AOT did and I started it even earlier. I am sure, however, that when it finally ends it's gonna be an even bigger event than AOT ending due to how long it's been going on.

@raffyzita I am caught up on OP in both anime and manga and it's a lot of fun. But I can't say it gripped me as AOT did and I started it even earlier. I am sure, however, that when it finally ends it's gonna be an even bigger event than AOT ending due to how long it's been going on.

@I_Am_Freeballing I'm not sure about this.

Because of how long One Piece is it was never able to capture the same kind of broad audience that shows like AoT or Demon Slayer or JJK captured.

Because of it's length One Piece lost a few fans and it's harder to get new fans who have to watch a Thousand episodes to get caught up.

Now I'm not saying One Piece fandom is small. It has a very sizeable and very loyal fanbase.

But it doesn't seem to be growing mucj outside of that Fanbase.

Absolute perfection. No words. Mappa went above and beyond and managed to deliver the best episode of anime.

@Fuhrer_Wrath Fair enough. Yeah there are times it feels like its dragging its feet to its next plot point. Gotta say though its variety in themes (even though the execution is light-hearted, for better or for worse) keeps it fresh.