Sword Art Online (light novel)
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Paul said: The goal of a hater isn't to start a 'proper' debate. It's simply to hate the series, with facts or not, it doesn't matter. So what separates a hater from someone who simply hates a show? If facts or well thought out opinions don't amount to anything, is the only rational way to talk about this show to praise it? I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're trying to make. |
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RMNDolphy said: Paul said: The goal of a hater isn't to start a 'proper' debate. It's simply to hate the series, with facts or not, it doesn't matter. So what separates a hater from someone who simply hates a show? If facts or well thought out opinions don't amount to anything, is the only rational way to talk about this show to praise it? I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're trying to make. I'm not sure if it was misunderstood or what but my post was mostly a response to "I find this dismissive, 'haters gonna hate' mentality far more obnoxious and childish. If you have a problem with something negative said about SAO, then put together a proper debate for it.". There's nothing stopping you from putting together facts or reasons for disliking a show, it simply depends on how you express it. Haters are not people who simply dislike/hate the show. Haters are, in quote, "A person that simply cannot be happy for another person's success. ", so anime wise, they are trying to bring down the show and anyone who enjoys it. As for someone who dislikes/'hates' the show in general, they have their reasons but they don't go spouting random shit about the series or try to bring down others who are enjoying it. They simply stop watching and that's that, no reason to continue if you don't like it. So basically, I view a 'hater' and someone who simply dislikes/'hates' the series two different thing/people. |
Paul said: I'm not sure if it was misunderstood or what but my post was mostly a response to "I find this dismissive, 'haters gonna hate' mentality far more obnoxious and childish. If you have a problem with something negative said about SAO, then put together a proper debate for it.". There's nothing stopping you from putting together facts or reasons for disliking a show, it simply depends on how you express it. Haters are not people who simply dislike/hate the show. Haters are, in quote, "A person that simply cannot be happy for another person's success. ", so anime wise, they are trying to bring down the show and anyone who enjoys it. As for someone who dislikes/'hates' the show in general, they have their reasons but they don't go spouting random shit about the series or try to bring down others who are enjoying it. They simply stop watching and that's that, no reason to continue if you don't like it. So basically, I view a 'hater' and someone who simply dislikes/'hates' the series two different thing/people. Ah, I must have misunderstood. I thought that by saying, "with facts or not, it doesn't matter," you meant that anyone that hates a show, whether simply to hate it or for good reasons, should be considered a hater. Thanks for clarifying. However, I completely disagree with this statement: Paul said: They simply stop watching and that's that, no reason to continue if you don't like it. I think there's merit in continuing to watch shows you don't enjoy. If you view anime as an art, analyzing a shows failing can be an illuminating experience and even help you appreciate quality shows even more. To think about how the show fails, why the show fails, what the show could have done to be better, why the show made you feel the way a certain way -All important things to consider when looking at a piece of art. And, of course, it's important to see how things play out in the long run for an extended, serialized art such as TV anime. To only watch a part of the show before concluding what it's perceived value is would be akin to only looking at the corner of a painting or the first movement of a much larger musical piece and doing the same. |
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RMNDolphy said: However, I completely disagree with this statement: Paul said: They simply stop watching and that's that, no reason to continue if you don't like it. I think there's merit in continuing to watch shows you don't enjoy. If you view anime as an art, analyzing a shows failing can be an illuminating experience and even help you appreciate quality shows even more. To think about how the show fails, why the show fails, what the show could have done to be better, why the show made you feel the way a certain way -All important things to consider when looking at a piece of art. And, of course, it's important to see how things play out in the long run for an extended, serialized art such as TV anime. To only watch a part of the show before concluding what it's perceived value is would be akin to only looking at the corner of a painting or the first movement of a much larger musical piece and doing the same. That's a good way to look at it, but sadly, from what I've seen on forums and such, not everyone will do/think like that when watching a show they show no interest in. |
whatever123456 said: Anime is entertainment, not art. I'd disagree, but it's probably just a matter of opinion. What makes you think entertainment and art are mutually exclusive though? |
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whatever123456 said: RMNDolphy said: whatever123456 said: Anime is entertainment, not art. I'd disagree, but it's probably just a matter of opinion. What makes you think entertainment and art are mutually exclusive though? They are not mutually exclusive, but anime is made purely to sell, not to express anything. Watch stuff like Angel's Egg and Catman or read BLAME! and The Walking Man. You sound very uneducated right here. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
whatever123456 said: RMNDolphy said: whatever123456 said: Anime is entertainment, not art. I'd disagree, but it's probably just a matter of opinion. What makes you think entertainment and art are mutually exclusive though? They are not mutually exclusive, but anime is made purely to sell, not to express anything. Well, that's a glum way of looking at it. I'd like to think the medium in which this site is dedicated has a little more creative value than that. There's plenty of anime that didn't stand a chance commercially, yet still were made. Take Tamala 2010: A Punk Cat in Space, or Trapeze, or Cat Soup, or most of Studio 4°C output, or Osamu Tezuka's short films, or any short films for that matter; None of these stood a chance commercially but were made nonetheless. Not to suggest commercial success and creative expression are mutually exclusive, either. Totoro is a very creative and imaginative film that was obviously made with profiting in mind. The same could be said for the Aria series, Mushi-shi, FLCL, Mind Game, the Haruhi movie, Ghost in the Shell, Sotoshi Kon's films, and countless other productions. Of course not every show is made with creative intentions, but to dismiss the entire medium as some soulless cash grab is disingenuous at best. In short, I disagree. |
NotDolphyOct 25, 2012 1:43 PM
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Paul said: symbv said: RMNDolphy said: I find this dismissive, 'haters gonna hate' mentality far more obnoxious and childish. If you have a problem with something negative said about SAO, then put together a proper debate for it. Just being dismissive comes across as, A) not having having a legit counterpoint and, B) immature and desperate enough to strive for some false sense of the higher ground regardless. It depends on the points of the haters though. If the points from the haters are full of emotional or strong-worded remarks it may be a rational and mature attitude to decline to engage. If the criticisms are fairly and respectfully stated then those people who state them would not be called "haters" after all. The goal of a hater isn't to start a 'proper' debate. It's simply to hate the series, with facts or not, it doesn't matter. I believe your first comment was directed at me for the"haters gonna hate" part ,so let's clear some things. I havent seen proper criticism in the threads for FAR too long.NO MATTER WHAT the chars do, it's either a plothole or something retarded.NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS the plot will be retarded. OK about the plot.It is sooooooo cliche that many are sick of it.Or the characters do not appeal to them. Ok I dont like Ichigo and 99% of the cast from Bleach too. But when they talk about "plotholes"(90% of those that dislike the show) they are just asking for it. While I can say that they are right when the anime omit explanation that existed in the LN, I cant just accept their hate as criticism when the anime gave explanations to their "plotholes" a few seconds ago. That isnt criticism ,it's just hate.They obviously do it to agitate those that like the show. Then,after you point out where it was explained, they respond with something along the lines of "I DIDNT PAY ATTENTION because the show is so bad" .How the logic of watching something you dont like applies here I dont understand. Especially if you want to "analyze" shows. Also the ones that dislike SAO and deliver proper criticism about it should NOT insult others for liking a dumb show.That IS hate. |
whatever123456 said: There may be a few obscure titles over the decades, it still doesn't change that anime is made with the intention to earn money. I never implied that anime couldn't be creative or imaginative. Most of the titles I listed are from the last decade and, at the very least, prove that not ALL anime is made with commercial intent. Most of it, sure, but there's enough that aren't to make statements like, "anime is made purely to sell, not to express anything," a little silly . Of course most anime is made to sell, but your previous post implied that that's all it is: something to sell. Saying, "anime is made purely to sell, not to express anything," sure felt like you were saying it can't be creative. whatever123456 said: Uneducated? Because I didn't watch some obscure movie from 1985 Angel's Egg is hardly 'obscure.' Maybe compared to K-On, but I certainly wouldn't call anything directed by Mamoru Oshii obscure. I'd highly recommend checking it out though. Great film. ssjokg said: I believe your first comment was directed at me for the"haters gonna hate" part ,so let's clear some things. It was aimed at many people. It's been irritating me for awhile. Whatever post inspired the post was more of a coincidence than a direct response to that specific post. ssjokg said: I havent seen proper criticism in the threads for FAR too long.NO MATTER WHAT the chars do, it's either a plothole or something retarded.NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS the plot will be retarded. I can't speak for others and haven't read every single post in these thread (hence my sanity still being intact), but isn't it possible some people genuinely believe SAO fails in just about every aspect? I know that's just about how I feel. ssjokg said: But when they talk about "plotholes"(90% of those that dislike the show) they are just asking for it. eh? Why wouldn't people that dislike the show complain about plotholes? It's one of the reasons they dislike the show! And how are they "asking for it," by simply stating where they feel the show falls short? None of that seems like they are asking for that dismissive, 'hater gonna hate' shit. I'd almost understand it if they were responding to a post that only said "fuck dis show cuz loliz," but not complaints of plotholes, characters, pacing, exploration of themes, and consistency. ssjokg said: While I can say that they are right when the anime omit explanation that existed in the LN, I cant just accept their hate as criticism when the anime gave explanations to their "plotholes" a few seconds ago. That isnt criticism ,it's just hate.They obviously do it to agitate those that like the show. Then,after you point out where it was explained, they respond with something along the lines of "I DIDNT PAY ATTENTION because the show is so bad" . I'd agree with this. I still don't think it warrants that 'haters gonna hate' shit, but I can see where you're coming from. ssjokg said: How the logic of watching something you dont like applies here I dont understand. Especially if you want to "analyze" shows. I only brought it up because someone said, "They simply stop watching and that's that, no reason to continue if you don't like it," and I disagreed. I continue to watch this show that I hate because it makes me think critically and in turn helps me appreciate the medium more. For example, earlier in this thread I complained about Kirito essentially being invincible and why I thought that made him an uninteresting character. Since then, I've been thinking more about it. I'm watching another show at the moment called Future Boy Conan, directed by Hayao Miyazaki, in which the main character, Conan, is even more of a super-human, invincible powerhouse than Kirito. I've been think a lot about why Kirito bugs me but Conan is A-OK. I haven't quite figured out the answer yet, but that type of critical thinking is good, healthy, and intellectually satisfying. At least in my opinion it is. ssjokg said: Also the ones that dislike SAO and deliver proper criticism about it should NOT insult others for liking a dumb show.That IS hate. Agreed 100% It works both ways though. Sorry for the long post! got carried away. |
NotDolphyOct 25, 2012 3:31 PM
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RMNDolphy said: ssjokg said: I havent seen proper criticism in the threads for FAR too long.NO MATTER WHAT the chars do, it's either a plothole or something retarded.NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS the plot will be retarded. I can't speak for others and haven't read every single post in these thread (hence my sanity still being intact), but isn't it possible some people genuinely believe SAO fails in just about every aspect? I know that's just about how I feel. Even though it has similarities to other anime?Like you said below.Like the incest thing for an example.Half of the people (oh I am sure about that)loved Nisemonogatri ep8 but here, where NOTHING happened they rage like there is no tomorrow.Every similar in genre show has at least one thing SAO has but it wont be hated the same way SAO is. RMNDolphy said: ssjokg said: But when they talk about "plotholes"(90% of those that dislike the show) they are just asking for it. eh? Why wouldn't people that dislike the show complain about plotholes? It's one of the reasons they dislike the show! And how are they "asking for it," by simply stating where they feel the show falls short? None of that seems like they are asking for that dismissive, 'hater gonna hate' shit. I'd almost understand it if they were responding to a post that only said "fuck dis show cuz loliz," but not complaints of plotholes, characters, pacing, exploration of themes, and consistency. The problem is that these "plotholes" were explained a few seconds before by the characters in very simple words,so they dont exist.There are no plotholes.IF they cant understand what they are reading in the subs it's not a problem from the show.At least if they were pointing out actual plotholes(or at least ones not yet explained) i wouldnt comment like this.At least one plothole was in this ep but no one, NO ONE even mentioned the scene much less calling it a plothole. RMNDolphy said: ssjokg said: How the logic of watching something you dont like applies here I dont understand. Especially if you want to "analyze" shows. I only brought it up because someone said, "They simply stop watching and that's that, no reason to continue if you don't like it," and I disagreed. I continue to watch this show that I hate because it makes me think critically and in turn helps me appreciate the medium more. For example, earlier in this thread I complained about Kirito essentially being invincible and why I thought that made him an uninteresting character. Since then, I've been thinking more about it. I'm watching another show at the moment called Future Boy Conan, directed by Hayao Miyazaki, in which the main character, Conan, is even more of a super-human, invincible powerhouse than Kirito. I've been think a lot about why Kirito bugs me but Conan is A-OK. I haven't quite figure out the answer yet, but that type of critical thinking is good, healthy, and satisfying. At least in my opinion it it. This sentence was with the one before it.Maybe I wasnt clear.Why would you watch a show that you CANT pay attention to because you think it is shit?How will someone be able to think about its actual flaws or even compare this show with another if he cant(or doesnt want to) pay attention? RMNDolphy said: ssjokg said: Also the ones that dislike SAO and deliver proper criticism about it should NOT insult others for liking a dumb show.That IS hate. Agreed 100% It works both ways though. If I see proper criticism I wont hate it.Just like I hate on blind fanboys(in a previous ep thread where a user just wouldnt shut up) I will hate on blind hate when I see it.Be it SAO it or other series. |
ssjokgOct 25, 2012 4:15 PM
| I won't address these point by point because most of them can be summed up in general terms. Speaking as someone who LOVED the toothbrush scene in Nisemonogatari (didn't care much for most of the show, though), but groans at every incest allusion in SAO, I think the difference is in the execution. Nise- was an absurd comedy, largely satirizing that incest and harem stuff, pulled off with no shortage of visual flair and dramatic tension. Nowhere is this more apparent than in the infamous toothbrush scene. In the context of the show -a very absurd show- it was completely within bounds. SAO, on the other hand, is based in a reality similar to our own and is rather stale in presentation. The incest comes across as flippant and only there to satisfy a certain audience. It doesn't help that her sole characteristics so far are clumsy and (seemingly) in love with oniichan! The rest of your post is mostly referring to stuff I haven't seen much of as someone who doesn't really follow these threads carefully, so I can't really comment on it. I think we actually agree on most of that. I guess I just haven't seen some of the extreme cases on the 'hate' side. "Haters gonna hate" still bugs me though. No need to stoop to their level. |
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| @ssokg i am sure you are talking about me, my post was firstly trying to get answers for the show, and showing my confusion and in hope thinking that some one would answer me, and help me feel less confused. it was Kiritos character in this episode that made me decide i don't like the show and not some plot holes i made up |
Nichibotsu-kaeru said: "what happened to no sword skills? and why can the other people fly without that controller!? and then kirito trying to be cool, after this episode i conclude that this anime sucks"@ssokg i am sure you are talking about me, my post was firstly trying to get answers for the show, and showing my confusion and in hope thinking that some one would answer me, and help me feel less confused. it was Kiritos character in this episode that made me decide i don't like the show and not some plot holes i made up Yeah.You totally made it clear that it was ONLY because of Kirito's char. If I thought that it was only because of that I wouldnt respond like I did. Just look at the posts for Yui, Sugu and Lyfa. Did I respond to all of them?Or do I have some grudge with you personally? |
Worldplay said: i don't like how they go to a new world ... the anime is called sword art online, right ? not fairyland .. even though i can't wait till the new episode. hope it'll be good !! All stories have something to do with someone/something from the SAO game. |
Worldplay said: i don't like how they go to a new world ... the anime is called sword art online, right ? not fairyland .. even though i can't wait till the new episode. hope it'll be good !! Alfheim Online is a 90% carbon copy of SAO. Everything else later in the story revolves around and has something related to SAO. Whether it's the game itself, like ALO or the characters that appear and foreshadowed in SAO. |
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| Woot, I finally found time to catch up. I found ALO arc to be better, but I guess action show with bad quality animation is not a good idea ( I am not talking about art style, but about "frame rate"). Kirito may be Jesus wannabe, but I can live with that ( there are worst protagonists). However those female characters really tick me off - first Asuna, now Imouto. Girls from side stories were not better, but at least you do not seem them much afterwards. And ALO may look like "gay" mmo, but I like concept of the world more than majority of actual mmos. At least something is different. |
"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time."  Whatever I write is most likely my opinion, which is based on information I learnt, not universal truth. You may disagree. MAL forums are more entertaining than anime themselves. |
| I'm liking this new fresh start of sorts! We got to see Yui again. Her pixie form is so cute. I haven't played the VN, but Lyfa has the same voice actress as Kirito's cousin so I bet it's her. I wonder how she didn't recognize him though. Is it because his appearance got randomized? Do only we see him as Kazuto? Kinda cool how Kirito got to keep his stats. This makes him a badass even in this new game! Can't wait for him to find Asuna, but I'm afraid she won't recognize him just like his cousin didn't, but we'll see. First he needs to get there. |
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Onyxthegreat said: I'm liking this new fresh start of sorts! We got to see Yui again. Her pixie form is so cute. I haven't read the LN, but Lyfa has the same voice actress as Kirito's cousin so I bet it's her. I wonder how she didn't recognize him though. Is it because his appearance got randomized? Do only we see him as Kazuto? Kinda cool how Kirito got to keep his stats. This makes him a badass even in this new game! Can't wait for him to find Asuna, but I'm afraid she won't recognize him just like his cousin didn't, but we'll see. First he needs to get there. FTFY |
| I don't think it's good, and i don't think it's bad, but for some reason i can't stop watching it. (_ _) |
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| Wtf elves WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF???????????????? |
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| Sooo Kirito go on another game to save the "princess"... Really new... |
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| I didn't know how I was going to feel about Alfhiem but I have to say I enjoyed that episode so I'm looking forward to more! |
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| another heorine comes!!! looks like another HAREM arc for kirito LOL hey.. they say that ALO is all about player skills, but why kirito has all those stats from SAO? in first place... as far as i know, the game with no leveling needs no stats, right? LOL |
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| Kurosaki-kun finally entered Hueco Mundo, time to save Orihime! Again. We lescue arc NAO! /sarcasm It's nice to see that Kuro Kirito-kun is such an awesome player by nature that he doesn't even take a look at the stats or differences between the classes/species just dives right into one that wears black coats. A true game veteran if I do say so myself. How convenient that he only needs to dispose of his items, because his stats and pixie wouldn't be picked up by the server, unlike the corrupted items. Best unintentional parody of the year hands down. 2/5. |
Mogami-kun said: Kurosaki-kun finally entered Hueco Mundo, time to save Orihime! Again. We lescue arc NAO! /sarcasm It's nice to see that Kuro Kirito-kun is such an awesome player by nature that he doesn't even take a look at the stats or differences between the classes/species just dives right into one that wears black coats. A true game veteran if I do say so myself. How convenient that he only needs to dispose of his items, because his stats and pixie wouldn't be picked up by the server, unlike the corrupted items. Best unintentional parody of the year hands down. 2/5. Lol. Epic comment. +1 |
| it was nice to see every1 back |
| I do like this episode and love the idea of the whole elf thing. But there was a number of things that bothered me in this episode. 1. They didn't really explain why Asuna was in there, or even go in depth as to how Kirito still had his stats 2. They didn't really go over what happens when one dies in the game (although i assume you don't die in real life, because of the log out button still being there) With that being said, i dont see a real big threat as far as losing in this game. im sure they will introduce that later though. |
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Tashiku said: I think they are all covered in the anime, although perhaps it is just not as in-depth as you want?1. They didn't really explain why Asuna was in there, or even go in depth as to how Kirito still had his stats 2. They didn't really go over what happens when one dies in the game (although i assume you don't die in real life, because of the log out button still being there) |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| I wonder why Sugou is always calling Asuna as "Titania"?! It just reminded me of Erza from Fairy Tail. |
| And so it begins... Kirito is reborn once again as Kazuto takes the plunge into Alfheim Online. Yui is also given new "life" as his navigation guide. She's also 200% cuter! Kirito comes to the rescue of yet another attractive girl on the way to save his one true love. But wait, that girl's voice...! Could it be? Nah... can't be. Someone who just logged in for the first time and is already OP... let the OMG! h4x! calls commence from the other players. Well, Kirito himself acknowledged his sudden transition from "Beater" to just a Cheater... |
| Ahhh, so glad that Yui is back! She's so cute being a fairy. Not a big fan of Kirito's new look though, that hairstyle, man. At least its rekindled my interest in it somewhat. |
| Someone needs to ban Kirito ! Damn cheater ! Let the guy took your princess away :p |
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| omg the pain of deleting items.. i feel u kirito )): |
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| Hurray for Agil! Hurray for Yui! Also, wtf, Kirito so freaking OP xD |
| OKay something is wrong here, I don't believe for a second Kirito's username wasn't taken by some imposter |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
Takuan_Soho said: Confucius said: OKay something is wrong here, I don't believe for a second Kirito's username wasn't taken by some imposter You have been on a tear, 7 episodes so far today. The answer to your question is that Kirito's user data was stored on his nervegear after SAO ended. Plus the name "kirito" isn't iconic. Most of the people who survived the 75th floor battle in SAO were friends. The rest of SAO has no idea who saved them. Oh so his helmet is like a permanent xbox id or some sort then? Wasn't his victory declared to the world? I would think he would be famous |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
Confucius said: Takuan_Soho said: Confucius said: OKay something is wrong here, I don't believe for a second Kirito's username wasn't taken by some imposter You have been on a tear, 7 episodes so far today. The answer to your question is that Kirito's user data was stored on his nervegear after SAO ended. Plus the name "kirito" isn't iconic. Most of the people who survived the 75th floor battle in SAO were friends. The rest of SAO has no idea who saved them. Oh so his helmet is like a permanent xbox id or some sort then? Wasn't his victory declared to the world? I would think he would be famous No actually if u remember when Kirito talked to Asuna's dad, he said that "we're not supposed to talk about it" so the whole thing is actually being very hushed up |
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| well, he certainly knows how to make an entrance ;) |
| OP!!! LOL |
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