Hunter x Hunter Chapter 357 Discussion

Drake1000 said:
You guys keep saying it's been established but this is the first time ever in HxH someone came back to life through Nen (Meruem was only horribly injured by the explosion, he didn't die), we've seen Nen abilities come back (Neferpitou) or stay after their user died (Sun and Moon) and abilities like Judgment chain where it could potentialy kill the target if Kurapika died, Gon didn't die after his transformation, we've never seen someone intentionally praying to their Nen before they die to resurrect them, this is quite the new concept within Nen, if you would've told anyone that this is possible prior to this, they would've laughed at you.

Drake1000 said:
You guys keep saying it's been established but this is the first time ever in HxH someone came back to life through Nen (Meruem was only horribly injured by the explosion, he didn't die), we've seen Nen abilities come back (Neferpitou) or stay after their user died (Sun and Moon) and abilities like Judgment chain where it could potentialy kill the target if Kurapika died, Gon didn't die after his transformation, we've never seen someone intentionally praying to their Nen before they die to resurrect them, this is quite the new concept within Nen, if you would've told anyone that this is possible prior to this, they would've laughed at you.

LuisMonk said:
HxH is my favourite Manga by far, in terms of consistency at least with very few exceptions, but I think it's unavoidable when dealing with supernatural factors such as nen. The fact that hisoka came back to life would have bothered me if it had happened before the nanika arc, but now I just see it as an escape pod for the way that togashi wrote himself into a corner with this fight. I mean, so far the hunter theme has been really complex, enjoyable and fair, characters don't thrive out of raw power like in Naruto or bleach, the fights here rely on strategy and preparation/timing. I don't mind hisoka came back or that he pulled an Aokiji with the rubber parts, I'm just glad that got over with and we can move on to the DC arc, also, I'm more interested in seeing how kurapika will adapt to the new scenario.

Enishi- said:
This chapter was such an ass pull. Oh well. Long live Hisoka I guess.

Honcho_D said:
(...)
It's not a new concept. It's just creativity and this method of resuscitation was only possible because of the nature of Hisoka's Nen + he had little prep time before he died. You don't expect Gotoh to have fixed his throat with coins, or Meruem to have healed his poison with whatever nature of Nen he had (as long as it didn't have healing qualities), or Kite to have mantled himself back with his slot machine or whatever etc.

fearthebeard85 said:


Just because you don't agree with the way something happened doesn't make it an asspull, especially when it was perfectly explained and had previous examples in the series how it was possible. Not comprehending something doesn't make it an asspull. Go back and reread the series because you clearly missed where this has been established how it was possible. Or just scroll up a few posts and read the one by Honcho_D because he basically described exactly what happened and how it was possible. Being butt hurt does not constitute an asspull

Enishi- said:


Nen being stronger after death isn't the same as being revived. What we saw with Pitou was a corpse doll being controlled by Nen, not a revival. Hisoka had been down for a while and his brain wasn't getting oxygen. It's an asspull. He's human, his brain needs oxygen. End of story.

The example me above about the boy surviving for 45 minutes is a complete aberration and shouldn't really be considered.

Honcho_D said:


Concepts Already Established in HxH

• Someone can make a contract with his Nen
  
• Nen is stronger after death
  
• Bungee Gum has the quality of rubber and gum
  
• Nen can be used for defence/protection
  

What Happened

1. Hisoka impaled his chest with his hand and protected his heart and lungs with Bungee Gum (because Nen can be used for protection)
   
2. He prayed/ordered his Nen to expand and contract when he is dead (making contract with Nen)
   
3. Hisoka suffocated to death
   
4. His Nen activated (Nen being stronger after death allowed his Nen to perform the earlier made contract even after he is dead)
   
5. His Nen (which has the quality of rubber and gum) was able to pump his heart back to action by expanding and contracting. Just like CPR in real life
   
6. Hisoka was revived
   

Please where is the asspull? Cos I can't find it...
Notice everything that happened followed concepts that had already been established, as I just explained.

It's not a new concept. It's just creativity and this method of resuscitation was only possible because of the nature of Hisoka's Nen + he had little prep time before he died. You don't expect Gotoh to have fixed his throat with coins, or Meruem to have healed his poison with whatever nature of Nen he had (as long as it didn't have healing qualities), or Kite to have mantled himself back with his slot machine or whatever etc.

"You don't expect Gotoh to have fixed his throat with coins, or Meruem to have healed his poison with whatever nature of Nen he had (as long as it didn't have healing qualities), or Kite to have mantled himself back with his slot machine or whatever etc."

Mikasa said:

His heart stopped but he didn't die

Enishi- said:


Nen being stronger after death isn't the same as being revived. What we saw with Pitou was a corpse doll being controlled by Nen, not a revival. Hisoka had been down for a while and his brain wasn't getting oxygen. It's an asspull. He's human, his brain needs oxygen. End of story.

Drake1000 said:


This has never been done before, no one has ever intentionally made a contract with their Nen to wrap their heart and lungs after they die. No one has intentionally called upon Nen after death, it just happened because of the strong remaining emotions that the user that left with. Yeah I guess it goes with everything else, maybe Alluka/Nanika can resurrect people if Togashi is willing to go this route.

Honcho_D said:


Hisoka gave his Nen a command. The concept of "Nen being stronger after death" allowed the command to work even after he died, just the exact way the same concept allowed Sun and Moon to work after the owner had died. And in the process, the command Hisoka gave his Nen (to pump his heart back to action) resuscitated him. What is so hard to comprehend there? Or are you just playing dumb?

@goral just posted a link to a real life boy whose brain was deprived of oxygen for 42 minutes, yet he still survived. There are cases of real people being resuscitated even after they've been confirmed dead. These things happen, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.

Honcho_D said:


Hisoka had enough time to do that before he died. How many people in HxH had enough time to prep for that before they died? Anyone can wrap their heart with Nen before they die, but what good would that do them when their Nen doesn't possess the qualities of rubber and gum to pump it back to action? Nobody is calling upon Nen after death, Hisoka called upon Nen before Death. The command he gave activated after death just the same way Sun and Moon activated after the owner had died. It's not too hard to understand all this.

Enishi- said:

You only quoted half of my post.

I don't have any issues with nen being stronger after death, but a soul returning after death because he commanded his nen to do so is a stretch. Sun and Moon didn't return the souls of the dead either, so your comparison isn't appropriate. I'm just not doing mental gymnastics to follow the logic of Togashi in this chapter for the sake of it being canon material. It's not like it's going to deter me from reading the rest of HxH either, but I have to call it like I see it.

Enishi- said:

Nen being stronger after death isn't the same as being revived. What we saw with Pitou was a corpse doll being controlled by Nen, not a revival. Hisoka had been down for a while and his brain wasn't getting oxygen. It's an asspull. He's human, his brain needs oxygen. End of story.

The example me above about the boy surviving for 45 minutes is a complete aberration and shouldn't really be considered.

goral said:

lol
You're hilarious. So you're ignoring the fact that we have "aberrations" (or should we call them asspuls because you're throwing this word around a lot) in real life but when something plausible like this happens in a manga it's an asspull...

Not only that, you're also ignoring the fact that humans in HxH have COMPLETELY different physiology than in real life and for example have much stronger bones (they can jump from 50 meters without being pulverized, without any scratch in fact), much stronger muscles (like Hisoka who could throw 10 people around like a hammer or Killua who could open a 32 ton doors when he didn't even know nen). They have also much more blood than we do (which is common in manga), have better senses, etc. etc.

Drake1000 said:


He did use Nen after death, intentionally at that, no need to backpedal, again this is a new concept in that Hisoka wrapped his heart and lungs then died and Nen after death did his thing, no one called upon Nen after death intentionally before, it was always remaining emotions that did after the user died.

Honcho_D said:


It seems you're generally confused. He DID NOT use Nen after death. He gave his Nen an order before he died, and after he died, it simply activated. It's just the same as when he says "Bungee Gum, Contract!" Or "Bungee Gum, Release!", but this is just a different variation with a delay involved, like "Bungee Gum, expand and contract when I'm dead". It's similar to what Ging did with the radio he gave Gon; he probably ordered something like "Delete the tape when Gon is done", it doesn't mean Ging deleted it the instant Gon was done with the radio. These actions were done beforehand.

And saying "it's a new concept that Hisoka wrapped his heart and lungs" just because nobody's done it before is just silly. Nobody's needed to do it before.

Enishi- said:
People living that long without oxygen is incredibly rare, and it's not like Hisoka's brain is going to be different than a regular brain.

If you can provide me with evidence that the brain in HxH is somehow stronger than a regular human brain, then I will buy it. But for now, it's a stretch/asspull/whatever you want to call it.

Drake1000 said:


btw Ging is still alive, that has nothing to do with it

Drake1000 said:
"He DID NOT use Nen after death. He gave his Nen an order before he died, and after he died, it simply activated"

LOL, that's exactly what Nen after death is.

Drake1000 said:
Ok you seem to be saying that Nen after death wasn't used, are you serious? it's been mentionned twice in this chapter, it's the basis of this whole thing

Machi talks about Nen getting stronger after death: http://i.imgur.com/e8IVdVC.png

Hisoka did die, he himself said it: http://i.imgur.com/Dxxqboh.png

Now unless you're trying to argue that Hisoka didn't die, if he did die His Nen should not continue to function after he's dead UNLESS...

Drake1000 said:
...it's a work of Nen after death which Hisoka then intentionally called upon and that has never been done before.

fearthebeard85 said:
I just want to say it is honestly hysterical reading the comments in these forums and people complaining about what Hisoka did and claiming it to be an asspull. Yeah... THAT was an asspull, something that has been thoroughly explained throughout the series with Nen becoming stronger after death AND being showcased prior... but Gon turning into the incredible Hulk... which had 0 explanation or had anything similar in the series been shown before... is something people absolutely lost their shit over...

Oh how funny the double standard is. I also don't understand why there are numerous complaints about this fight. Was it because it wasn't a punch fest like every other shounen? Like at this point in the game what do you honestly expect from HxH? Top tier Nen users DO NOT fight that way... AT ALL. It's not like other Shounens where the stronger the characters become, the more the fights become who can throw the biggest continent destroying ability at their opponent. The fights between top tier Nen users are all about strategy. Look at Netero vs Meruem as an example. Merume sat there and picked his spots, spent the entire fight analyzing Netero's ability and only needed to land two actual hits to win the fight. That fight was pure strategy and it was incredible. Hisoka vs Chrollo was more of the same. It was a chess match the entire way, and as Hisoka admitted himself he bit off more than he could chew under the circumstances. So unless people aren't fans of fights that actually use strategy and just want to watch people mindlessly throw fists and blasts at each then I really don't understand where the complaints are coming from. And if that is the kinda fights you like, or were expecting from two top tier fighters in the series, then I don't even know how you made it this far in the series.

Honcho_D said:


Actually it is. Setting up a contract to activate in the future under certain conditions (just as Ging did) is exactly what Hisoka did here. Dead or alive regardless.



No man, that is "Nen is stronger after death", not "Nen after death". You're confusing yourself. "Nen after death" implies that he is dead but still actively using his Nen.

When you said Hisoka was calling upon his Nen after he died, it makes it look like he was the one actively using his Nen to resuscitate himself after he died, that is wrong. It was just the condition he set up before he died that was in play. And Nen being stronger after death was the only reason that condition was able to function.

Normally, Nen shouldn't continue to function after the person's dead, but because his Nen was stronger after death, the contract he set up still functioned.

It's just like the Meteor City elder who created Sun and Moon. Since his Nen is stronger after death, the conditions he set up for that skill before he died can still function.



Lol WtH man..I'm not trying to argue that Hisoka didn't die. And none of the scans you posted support that Hisoka was the one calling upon his Nen after he died. He called upon his Nen before he died, and because of Nen being stronger after Death, it activated even after he died. I don't know how else I'm supposed to explain this.



Has anyone needed to do it before? And even if they needed to, how were they supposed to accomplish that with their own abilities? So if someone uses his unique abilities to accomplish something in his own unique way, while still following concepts that have already been introduced before, will you call that a new concept because nobody's done the exact same thing before? SmH man

No man, that is "Nen is stronger after death", not "Nen after death". You're confusing yourself. "Nen after death" implies that he is dead but still actively using his Nen.

Normally, Nen shouldn't continue to function after the person's dead, but because his Nen was stronger after death, the contract he set up still functioned.

It's just like the Meteor City elder who created Sun and Moon. Since his Nen is stronger after death, the conditions he set up for that skill before he died can still function.

Has anyone needed to do it before? And even if they needed to, how were they supposed to accomplish that with their own abilities? So if someone uses his unique abilities to accomplish something in his own unique way, while still following concepts that have already been introduced before, will you call that a new concept because nobody's done the exact same thing before? SmH man

goral said:
Firstly, how do you know that Hisoka has "regular brain"? Judging by his sociopathic behaviour his brain is anything but normal. Secondly, brains of these "abnormal" people (yes, there were more cases like this, the article I linked to has 2 other cases, in my country I know about at least 2 other cases like these) were also normal but due to certain circumstances (e.g. water being cold which slowed their heart rate) they've managed to survive intact.


You have proof of that in the current chapter.

Anyway, if you want to call it an asspull then how about this. Or the fact that Tsubone could transform into a plane or a bike, WTF? Or Alluka. Or Chrollo being able to use so many abilities at once.

I know I'm talking to a wall here but...

Honcho_D said:


Actually it is. Setting up a contract to activate in the future under certain conditions (just as Ging did) is exactly what Hisoka did here. Dead or alive regardless.



No man, that is "Nen is stronger after death", not "Nen after death". You're confusing yourself. "Nen after death" implies that he is dead but still actively using his Nen.

When you said Hisoka was calling upon his Nen after he died, it makes it look like he was the one actively using his Nen to resuscitate himself after he died, that is wrong. It was just the condition he set up before he died that was in play. And Nen being stronger after death was the only reason that condition was able to function.

Normally, Nen shouldn't continue to function after the person's dead, but because his Nen was stronger after death, the contract he set up still functioned.

It's just like the Meteor City elder who created Sun and Moon. Since his Nen is stronger after death, the conditions he set up for that skill before he died can still function.



Lol WtH man..I'm not trying to argue that Hisoka didn't die. And none of the scans you posted support that Hisoka was the one calling upon his Nen after he died. He called upon his Nen before he died, and because of Nen being stronger after Death, it activated even after he died. I don't know how else I'm supposed to explain this.



Has anyone needed to do it before? And even if they needed to, how were they supposed to accomplish that with their own abilities? So if someone uses his unique abilities to accomplish something in his own unique way, while still following concepts that have already been introduced before, will you call that a new concept because nobody's done the exact same thing before? SmH man

His Nen is working by itself after he died, he himself is not using it after death, he however intentionally triggered it by doing a contract with Bungee Gum.

Nen is stronger after death BECAUSE OF NEN AFTER DEATH occuring, there's no distinguishing between the 2 concepts, if you die there's no NEN IS STRONGER AFTER DEATH by itself lol, if you die there's no Nen period unless it's NEN AFTER DEATH.

The Sun and Moon elder didn't make a contract, he didn't fucking have Sun and Moon to begin with, it's just his death and lingering emotions that made it stay in Chrollo's book.

It's a new concept within Nen after death, making a contract involving Nen after death has never been done before, it was always lingering emotions that brought it up.

Soufou27 said:
I hope the 10th new member is someone we already know

What you said earlier was that Hisoka called upon his Nen after he died

cronosteso23 said:
Hisoka is a transmuter: An affinity for Transmutation means a person can change the properties of their aura to mimic something else.[3] Similar to Emission, things created via Transmutation are pure aura

It makes sense
Many transmuters rely on techniques that give unique and unpredictable properties to their Nen that reflects their personalities



it's true that the most of brain will have lethal damage 3 minutes after the heart stops beating. BUT there are cases in which a person did not suffer any damage.

- do you know that some people may live whit only a half of his brain?

ANYWAY this manga is UNREAL

Drake1000 said:
You just misunderstood me, I said called upon (Nen after death) not called upon Nen in the afterlife after he died.

Well I don't have anything else to say about Nen after death, we agree that what Hisoka did is a new sub-concept in Nen after death.

As for Sun and Moon, the elder cannot use an ability that Chrollo stole, now unless you think he died with Sun and Moon which would make no sense as to why it's on Chrollo's book. I think you mean to say that he set those conditions way before the ability was even stolen which then makes this contract very lengthy and quite complex, but you have no concrete evidence of it being the case, it could just as well be lingering emotions after he died. You're only saying it could be a contract because of what Hisoka introduced.

Mikasa said:
What the hell is everyone on about here? Like neither side has a fucking clue what post-mortem nen is... Calling upon? What the fuck? Feels like HxH set itself too cerebral for most, even its fans like it for the wrong reasons. Since they can't get most of what's happening.

Hisoka talking to his nen was simply him setting a condition, nen activating after was purely resolve.

Solunus said:
Yeah wasn't feeling this chapter at all. Hisoka came back to life because reasons and now he wants to do Kurapika's job for him. It's also lame how he took out two spiders instantly.

Superluccix said:
Why would massaging his heart and lungs somehow turn his brain back on when he was pronounced dead? His Cereberum shouldn't be working.

And even if I were to ignore that, why did Hisoka conveniently awaken after the 2 other Troupe members left? His message to his Nen specifically said "Rez me when I die"

That doesnt mean 1 minute later, 5 mins later, 10 mins later, 30 mins later, and on top of that, it doesn't mean "When its convenient for me to awake when no enemies are near me"

It means rez me as soon as I die.

Togashi clearly twisted Hisokas message in a way to give him the most convenient plot armor in existence. This is why its an asspull

Edit: Also, Machi deserves to die after not immediately decapitating Hisoka. Why the fuck is she helping him. So stupid.

Speaking of stupid, how stupid is Chrollo for not decapitating Hisoka. He literally just gave a talk on Nen being stronger after death, and this stupid fuck doesn't have the time to make sure its down for the count? Especially after lecturing Hisoka on this? Jesus Christ man.

Shalnark and Kortopi died because of Character Induced Stupidity

Temmie said:
Wow lots of walls of text

Anyways, I wanted to voice my opinion not on the Hisoka part but the end. While he did one shot two phantom troupe members and this must make people extremely upset, the reason why he picked these targets if not just convenience is for very specific reasons.

Machi told Hisoka she'd hunt him down if he ever killed Chrollo, as to Hisoka's degree he likes to fight people when they reach their full potential to be a true challenge to defeat. While his plan of killing Chrollo failed, this was likely his next best move to make the spiders go after him, and Machi is someone who I think he wants her to fight him at her fullest strength, with the weight of Chrollo's death on her back. Again, a failed plan.

So, by settling for the next best thing of picking off the spiders until he can face Chrollo without any possible outside interference like we may have just experienced in this recent fight, he goes for not only two useful powers to Chrollo but two useless powers to him.

Which brings us to Shalnark and Kortopi, while as troupe members no doubt strong, we can only reason with ourselves that their powers alone would not be strong against Hisoka, certainly compared to the rest of the troupe(while Kortopi's powers were still mostly a mystery), I can only think that while not just convenient that they were there, Hisoka picked off these two targets as they would be at the largest disadvantage to him in a one on one fight anyways, making waiting for them to reach maximum potential like he does with Gon useless, as they would still be utterly defeated. This is huge speculation on my part, but is the most logical to myself on why he didn't even bother to fight those two, instead killing them instantly.