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Dec 17, 2013 5:36 PM

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Sep 2012
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Sorayin said:
I don't believe it... I... Seriously?
This show is so fucking bad and yet it's made it into the top 200?
I knew most anime fans were quasi paedophiles who love anything cutsie no matter how shitty it is. But this?
You should legitimately feel bad for liking this.
Seriously... I'm so depressed now.


Yeah, who knew that if you follow the main 5 Little Busters' struggle, which is somehow pedophilia to you, it's still good even with this bad adaptation.
It sucks that you can't take a story about friendship seriously in the least.
You should apologize with that stream, now ;)
Dec 17, 2013 5:40 PM

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Aug 2008
2139
Yet he is still here, despite hating on the show. So either he is a masochist or just incredibly bored. Not that I'll judge either way because I did the same with SAO (because I was a masochist and incredibly bored).
Dec 17, 2013 5:42 PM

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I just wonder if he could even recount more than a sentence about each of the main 5 LB characters and their arcs or development to prove he paid attention.
Dec 17, 2013 5:45 PM
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Vladz0r said:
Sorayin said:
I don't believe it... I... Seriously?
This show is so fucking bad and yet it's made it into the top 200?
I knew most anime fans were quasi paedophiles who love anything cutsie no matter how shitty it is. But this?
You should legitimately feel bad for liking this.
Seriously... I'm so depressed now.


Yeah, who knew that if you follow the main 5 Little Busters' struggle, which is somehow pedophilia to you, it's still good even with this bad adaptation.
It sucks that you can't take a story about friendship seriously in the least.
You should apologize with that stream, now ;)


No it isn't. It's so poorly written and directed it's not funny. In fact that post you have on your profile summarises everything wrong with it very well. Why you are gave it a 9/10 when you personally identified it's gaping issues is beyond me.

Also I have far too much to live for to pull an Abe Briggs on myself. Sorry babe.
Dec 17, 2013 5:48 PM

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Aug 2008
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Obviously the only likely turn of events is for the principal to be the last boss who Riki must fight in all out brawl with rubberbands in order to prove his strength to all his friends.

That's how the series was written right?
Dec 17, 2013 5:49 PM

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Nov 2010
26413
Sorayin said:
I don't believe it... I... Seriously?
This show is so fucking bad and yet it's made it into the top 200?
I knew most anime fans were quasi paedophiles who love anything cutsie no matter how shitty it is. But this?
You should legitimately feel bad for liking this.
Seriously... I'm so depressed now.
People who didn't like the first series are less likely to watch the second, it's part of the reason why almost all sequels are rated higher than the prequel.
Dec 17, 2013 5:57 PM

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Oct 2012
765
at least it needs 8.48 for top 100... :3



Dec 17, 2013 5:58 PM

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Sep 2012
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Sorayin said:

No it isn't. It's so poorly written and directed it's not funny. In fact that post you have on your profile summarises everything wrong with it very well. Why you are gave it a 9/10 when you personally identified it's gaping issues is beyond me.

Also I have far too much to live for to pull an Abe Briggs on myself. Sorry babe.


My profile post is about the personal faults I believe are in the adaptation.
My review overlooks those faults and focuses on the thematic prevalence and the core story, and is how the average viewer should take the story if they overlook the unintentionally forced drama that came as a result of the adaptation's garbage pacing.

I feel that if one actually pay attention to the story, like most of the watchers do, it'll be worth that score. I'd prefer not to write a review pointing out all the glaring faults in the show, because this is a bad VN adaptation, and no one could possibly enjoy it if all they is focus on the bad writing that came as a result of it.

ryshin said:
at least it needs 8.48 for top 100... :3

They've been saving the best directors so far.
If JC's better staff is in charge of the next two episodes, I could see it reaching at least an 8.40, especially with the "20% watched" formula kicking in.
Angel Beats had a pretty huge score jump when it ended, despite the controversy over the ending.
Dec 17, 2013 6:01 PM
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Aug 2012
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hyperknees91 said:
Yet he is still here, despite hating on the show. So either he is a masochist or just incredibly bored. Not that I'll judge either way because I did the same with SAO (because I was a masochist and incredibly bored).


Dropping stuff is for faggots. I'm hardcore.

Vladz0r said:
I just wonder if he could even recount more than a sentence about each of the main 5 LB characters and their arcs or development to prove he paid attention.


Honestly... No I couldn't. The only thing I can remember clearly is that quality episode from last season dealing with the painful loss of benches. Heartbreaking stuff.

hyperknees91 said:
Obviously the only likely turn of events is for the principal to be the last boss who Riki must fight in all out brawl with rubberbands in order to prove his strength to all his friends.

That's how the series was written right?


That would be better than anything else so far. Beside the bench scene of course!

IntroverTurtle said:
Sorayin said:
I don't believe it... I... Seriously?
This show is so fucking bad and yet it's made it into the top 200?
I knew most anime fans were quasi paedophiles who love anything cutsie no matter how shitty it is. But this?
You should legitimately feel bad for liking this.
Seriously... I'm so depressed now.
People who didn't like the first series are less likely to watch the second, it's part of the reason why almost all sequels are rated higher than the prequel.


I guess, but it's still emotionally traumatising to see this among the ranks of legitimately good shows.
Dec 17, 2013 6:03 PM

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Aug 2008
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It's ok...Code Geass is in the top 10...now that my friend is true pain.
Dec 17, 2013 6:08 PM
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hyperknees91 said:
It's ok...Code Geass is in the top 10...now that my friend is true pain.


I know that feel bro. I really do.
Though for me, seeing Shingeki no Kyojin there is even worse.
Dec 17, 2013 6:17 PM

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2139
Sorayin said:
hyperknees91 said:
It's ok...Code Geass is in the top 10...now that my friend is true pain.


I know that feel bro. I really do.
Though for me, seeing Shingeki no Kyojin there is even worse.


At least it dropped out of the top 10. I feel like all it takes for a show to be high rated on this site is,

Convoluted plot/Angst/High Budget/Takes itself way too seriously/Gore or lots of death (but no death of anyone actually important)/Controversial ending. = voila myanimelist viewing porn.
Dec 17, 2013 6:19 PM

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Feb 2012
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hyperknees91 said:
Sorayin said:
hyperknees91 said:
It's ok...Code Geass is in the top 10...now that my friend is true pain.


I know that feel bro. I really do.
Though for me, seeing Shingeki no Kyojin there is even worse.


At least it dropped out of the top 10. I feel like all it takes for a show to be high rated on this site is,

Convoluted plot/Angst/High Budget/Takes itself way too seriously/Gore or lots of death (but no death of anyone actually important)/Controversial ending. = voila myanimelist viewing porn.


you also need potato loving girls :D
Dec 17, 2013 6:20 PM

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Aug 2008
2139
shit I think he's onto something (C.C. loves pizza, Nagisa loves anpan).

Dammit LB! this is why your not in the top 10. You forgot to give a girl a food fetish.
Dec 17, 2013 6:23 PM

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Feb 2012
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hyperknees91 said:
shit I think he's onto something (C.C. loves pizza, Nagisa loves anpan).

Dammit LB! this is why your not in the top 10. You forgot to give a girl a food fetish.


Steins;Gate had doctor pepper, FMA Brotherhood had a hatred of Milk as recurring, yep, it's all about da food ;D
Dec 17, 2013 6:24 PM

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Aug 2008
2139
Gintama has strawberry milk..oh god.

Should've made kyousuke love waffles...should have done it key.
Dec 17, 2013 6:27 PM

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Jul 2011
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Sorayin said:
hyperknees91 said:
It's ok...Code Geass is in the top 10...now that my friend is true pain.


I know that feel bro. I really do.
Though for me, seeing Shingeki no Kyojin there is even worse.

But Shingeki isn't in the top 10
Dec 17, 2013 6:31 PM

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Feb 2012
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hyperknees91 said:
Gintama has strawberry milk..oh god.

Should've made kyousuke love waffles...should have done it key.


the VN had Komari obsessed with sweets though, dammit J.C Staff, if only you had made her sweet obsession more prevalent in the anime
Dec 17, 2013 6:40 PM

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Sep 2012
1820
hyperknees91 said:
shit I think he's onto something (C.C. loves pizza, Nagisa loves anpan).

Dammit LB! this is why your not in the top 10. You forgot to give a girl a food fetish.


They didn't put enough focus on Komari's sweets ><
Fucking JC Staff in charge of characterization.
Dec 17, 2013 6:40 PM

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Aug 2008
2139
Well at least we have pinpointed the reason it's not in the top 5.

And with that I feel like I've made this thread sufficiently lose all it's brain cells.
Dec 17, 2013 6:47 PM

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Nov 2010
26413
smilewolfy said:
hyperknees91 said:
shit I think he's onto something (C.C. loves pizza, Nagisa loves anpan).

Dammit LB! this is why your not in the top 10. You forgot to give a girl a food fetish.


Steins;Gate had doctor pepper, FMA Brotherhood had a hatred of Milk as recurring, yep, it's all about da food ;D
Gintoki from gintama with his strawberry milk, all the LOGH people and their tea.
Dec 17, 2013 6:52 PM

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Sep 2011
33685
IntroverTurtle said:
smilewolfy said:
hyperknees91 said:
shit I think he's onto something (C.C. loves pizza, Nagisa loves anpan).

Dammit LB! this is why your not in the top 10. You forgot to give a girl a food fetish.


Steins;Gate had doctor pepper, FMA Brotherhood had a hatred of Milk as recurring, yep, it's all about da food ;D
Gintoki from gintama with his strawberry milk, all the LOGH people and their tea.
damn if shingeki was in the top 10 i would have said

"eren with the taste of his own blood"

Also okabe with his dr pepper

Immahnoob said:
Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit,

tokiyashiro said:

Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me

Dec 17, 2013 8:22 PM
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Aug 2012
542
pralan said:
Sorayin said:
hyperknees91 said:
It's ok...Code Geass is in the top 10...now that my friend is true pain.


I know that feel bro. I really do.
Though for me, seeing Shingeki no Kyojin there is even worse.

But Shingeki isn't in the top 10


It's dropped down? I swear it was in 9th place last time I checked.
Thank based god.
Dec 18, 2013 3:10 AM
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Jun 2013
705
Vladz0r said:
ryshin said:
at least it needs 8.48 for top 100... :3

They've been saving the best directors so far.
If JC's better staff is in charge of the next two episodes, I could see it reaching at least an 8.40, especially with the "20% watched" formula kicking in.
Angel Beats had a pretty huge score jump when it ended, despite the controversy over the ending.


Pretty sure LB! ending will be more controversial than AB!'s. But next episode should up the score some more, if as well done as episode 11.
Dec 18, 2013 3:24 AM

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Sep 2012
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@Ol-Hybrius

Yeah, this is pretty much what it is. Next episode should be another great one, at the least.
Minispoilers ahead for Clannad/LB

Vladz0rDec 18, 2013 4:34 AM
Dec 18, 2013 3:31 AM
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Jun 2013
705
Vladz0r said:
@Ol-Hybrius

Yeah, this is pretty much what it is. Next episode should be another great one, at the least.
Minispoilers ahead for Clannad/LB



LB! and Clannad's ending spoiler :
ze1151154Dec 18, 2013 4:56 AM
Dec 18, 2013 3:53 AM

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Sep 2012
1820

LB/Clannad endings spoilers:
Vladz0rDec 18, 2013 4:35 AM
Dec 18, 2013 4:09 AM
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705
Vladz0r said:

LB/Clannad endings spoilers:


LB!'s true end spoiler :

ze1151154Dec 18, 2013 4:57 AM
Dec 18, 2013 4:17 AM

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Sep 2012
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LB true end spoilers

Vladz0rDec 18, 2013 4:36 AM
Dec 18, 2013 4:25 AM

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Vladz0r said:
Still, Maeda's themes of "becoming stronger" are pretty vague, so it's tough to argue that aspect of Riki's development sometimes...


all that's important to be developed is Riki and Kyousukes inevitable relationship. THAT'S the whole point of lil buses anyway
smilewolfyDec 18, 2013 4:38 AM
Dec 18, 2013 4:33 AM

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Oct 2013
3420
I think you guys are starting to spoil people with the discussions on the ending of LB. Its probably better if you at least spoiler tag those.
Dec 18, 2013 4:34 AM

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Sep 2012
1820
That OTP <3

-Riptide- said:
I think you guys are starting to spoil people with the discussions on the ending of LB. Its probably better if you at least spoiler tag those.


Yeah, sorry.
Ol-hybrius, try to add some spoiler tags around your quotes of me, or delete my quotes altogether, and maybe spoiler some of your own stuff, if that's okay ;3
Dec 18, 2013 4:59 AM
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Jun 2013
705
Sure. It's done. And you can call me Ol by the way ! ;D
Dec 20, 2013 10:20 AM

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Mar 2012
2836
Well, I haven't played the VN and I just caught up to the series after marathoning it for the last 2 days.

Do I think it will ever crack the Top 5 on MAL? I doubt it. It's a shame too because 11 episodes in, I have no qualms in calling this one of the best anime series I've ever watched and it will probably be only one of 3 anime I rate a 10 all year (I don't give out a whole lot of 10s on my MAL page).

Anyway, I don't think it will just for the fact that I don't think the first season sold enough people on the show. While I did love the first season of LB, I can understand why some people were turned off by it. Some of the stories surrounding the characters were a bit confusing and poorly handled.

Or perhaps people were turned off by this series from the start because J.C. Staff handled it instead of Kyoto Ani? I know I didn't watch the first season of Little Busters because I had a love/VERY MUCH HATE relationship with J.C. Staff at the time. However, after seeing all the outstanding anime J.C. Staff has put out so far this year (Golden Time and To Aru Kagaku no Railgun S), I decided to give it a chance. I'm sure glad I did. Anyway, here's why I say that...

Air
Score: 7.68
Ranked: 961
Popularity: 84
Members: 119,885

Kanon (2006)
Score: 8.38
Ranked: 146
Popularity: 119
Members: 99,375

Clannad
Score: 8.54
Ranked: 75
Popularity: 10
Members: 244,607

Clannad: After Story
Score: 9.16
Ranked: 3
Popularity: 32
Members: 187,803 (which boggles my mind, how have almost 60,000 members seen Clannad and not After Story?)

Little Busters
Score: 7.62
Ranked: 1062
Popularity: 341
Members: 55,307

Little Busters: Refrain
Score: 8.32
Ranked: 185
Popularity: 1130
Members: 17,396

Of course, it is a bit unfair to compare Little Busters to something that's already been out for 5-8 years, but the way I see it, unless word about this series starts getting spread out hardcore, I doubt it'll be able to reach the same heights the likes of Clannad reached.
Dec 20, 2013 10:30 AM

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Sep 2012
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@Toucan

I know you liked LB and all, but there were so many issues with how the comedy and story was handled, and with the animation quality and Clannad-level expectations people had for the series, it quickly became the most dropped show of 2012.

Even if Little Busters!: Refrain ended up at an 8.4-8.6 or something on MAL by the end of it, it won't make a popularity recovery because of its first season.
It's just, even with LB's merits as an emotional story, people simply can't get into it as easily. It's hit or miss. You have people who can easily get into and enjoy it, but there are many people who find the show clumsily executed and can't ever get into it due to its production values. Combine its issues with the fact that Little Busters packs some cryptic stories that are hard for a mainstream audience to fully understand, the weak comedy (for a lot of people), the far and distant payoff to the series (Refrain, with the Secret of the World unveiling), and you have this show that will likely not become really popular.

Anyway, ranking =/= popularity, and I doubt either of them are in for a spike at this point.

Also, to answer your Clannad part, go to the stats section for each page and you'll see...


Clannad:
Completed: 181,667

Clannad: After Story:
Watching: 6,881, Completed: 145,305, On-Hold: 4,610, Dropped:2,472
= 159,268 watch attempts total.

So, Clannad is pretty consistent in getting people to watch the sequel.
Dec 20, 2013 11:04 AM

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Mar 2012
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Vladz0r said:
@Toucan

I know you liked LB and all, but there were so many issues with how the comedy and story was handled, and with the animation quality and Clannad-level expectations people had for the series, it quickly became the most dropped show of 2012.

Even if Little Busters!: Refrain ended up at an 8.4-8.6 or something on MAL by the end of it, it won't make a popularity recovery because of its first season.
It's just, even with LB's merits as an emotional story, people simply can't get into it as easily. It's hit or miss. You have people who can easily get into and enjoy it, but there are many people who find the show clumsily executed and can't ever get into it due to its production values. Combine its issues with the fact that Little Busters packs some cryptic stories that are hard for a mainstream audience to fully understand, the weak comedy (for a lot of people), the far and distant payoff to the series (Refrain, with the Secret of the World unveiling), and you have this show that will likely not become really popular.

Anyway, ranking =/= popularity, and I doubt either of them are in for a spike at this point.

Also, to answer your Clannad part, go to the stats section for each page and you'll see...


Clannad:
Completed: 181,667

Clannad: After Story:
Watching: 6,881, Completed: 145,305, On-Hold: 4,610, Dropped:2,472
= 159,268 watch attempts total.

So, Clannad is pretty consistent in getting people to watch the sequel.


That is understandable and one of the points I was trying to make. From a production standpoint, J.C. Staff couldn't hold a candle to how Kyoto Animation handled the other three Key VN adaptations. I know for me personally, I was able to get past the lower production elements (it's not a big factor for me when it comes to viewing anime) and I'm one of the few that found the comedy in Little Busters to be downright hilarious.

Another reason why I can see why some people dropped this show is because Riki and Rin aren't as charismatic of characters as say, Tomoya and Nagisa from Clannad or Yuuichi and Ayu from Kanon. I know it took me a few episodes to try and get used to Riki's character and Rin does seem like your traditional tsundere-esque character. Well, I'd say maybe more tomboyish than tsundere, but you catch my drift.

For me personally, I was able to get past the cryptic story (I actually like that element in storytelling), the off-putting comedy (that I found hilarious), and the lower production values. Although, I can see why a lot of people wouldn't.

It actually blows my mind how this series didn't become popular considering how amazingly the VN sold.
Dec 20, 2013 11:38 AM

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Sep 2012
1820
The series is much more popular in Japan than it is here.
VN popularity barely means anything for how popular its adaptation is outside of Japan. The quality and reception of the adaption holds a lot of the favor.
Key's most popular VN is its least popular anime.

Steins;Gate didn't even get popular until episode 11 and people started going crazy for it, despite it being rated as one of the top VNs of all time.

There are some shows like White Album 2 that are getting hype from the source material, but for VN readers and for anime-only watchers, it is meeting the hype already in terms of presenting the realistic story it wanted to present.

You should check out my LB Analysis gallery btw- http://imgur.com/a/fSJLK
Dec 20, 2013 12:31 PM
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Dec 2013
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Vladz0r said:

It's just, even with LB's merits as an emotional story, people simply can't get into it as easily. It's hit or miss. You have people who can easily get into and enjoy it, but there are many people who find the show clumsily executed and can't ever get into it due to its production values. Combine its issues with the fact that Little Busters packs some cryptic stories that are hard for a mainstream audience to fully understand, the weak comedy (for a lot of people), the far and distant payoff to the series (Refrain, with the Secret of the World unveiling), and you have this show that will likely not become really popular.


So it's far and distant payoff. You demended more episodes while knowing the fact that it's too long, too many episodes. huh. The distant payoff didn't work but you thought they should have added more episodes, effectively making the final answer more far away...

Vladz0r said:

Anyway, ranking =/= popularity, and I doubt either of them are in for a spike at this point.

Also, to answer your Clannad part, go to the stats section for each page and you'll see...


Clannad:
Completed: 181,667

Clannad: After Story:
Watching: 6,881, Completed: 145,305, On-Hold: 4,610, Dropped:2,472
= 159,268 watch attempts total.

So, Clannad is pretty consistent in getting people to watch the sequel.


Clannad = Completed
Clannad After Story = Watch Attempts Total?

The calculation *sounds fair*.
Dec 20, 2013 1:03 PM

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Sep 2012
1820
@fauzty

Okay, let me explain to you how drama and emotional attachment works, and what's wrong with this adaptation.

a.)
You spend 19 episodes on heroine routes, and 1 episode each to Masato and Kengo's arcs. Several of the stories are now significantly weaker than the VN because of this.

b.)
You give Kurugaya, Haruka, and Rin and extra episode each.
You give Masato and Kengo an extra episode each to build up the conflict, characterization, believability.
Now, you have 5 different story arc endings spread throughout the series with better character exploration, and better emotional climaxes throughout the story.

You might ask what was wrong with those arcs...

Haruka's personality fluctuates incredibly, and the story was cut down a lot from the original story. Buildup for Futaki's antagonism and better pacing for Haruka's story would've been better. There was also more involvement with Riki in the route that was cut out due to time constraints.

Kurugaya had a diary she had written in each day of the time loop in order to recall her memories of each passing day with Riki. They removed any sort of dynamic relationship between the two characters, and so her farewell is melodramatic and driven primarily by Kurugaya's backstory and the one fireworks show they experienced.

Rin's route got cut an episode short where they made the back end of her route into a 4 minute montage. Riki was working hard in the fields, suffering from narcolepsy, while trying to take care of Rin. This was a tense and emotional struggle that showed Riki's motivation to become stronger and be able to do what Kyousuke once did: take care of Rin. This makes Riki and Rin getting caught, and Riki's want to "become stronger" more forced as part of the story without much actual substance for Riki's motivation.

Masato's I feel needed at least half an episode, because his internal delusions were merely brushed over, and there wasn't a lot to be able to feel for Masato.
Also, they couldn't use the same OST from the visual novel because of time constraints, and I felt the song they chose was out of place, but necessary to have a sung insert song at the end of the show.

Kengo's conflict with the Secret of the World is very quickly explained, and his flashbacks and conflict with Kyousuke is also brushed over. More buildup to the game vs. Riki/Rin and more development for Kengo will make his character feel more dynamic and believable, so that episodes 9 and 11 would've had a better emotional impact for him.

The reason I called it a "far and distant payoff" is because all the smaller arcs building up to the climax of Refrain are rushed as fuck. I can't see a reason why a non-casual anime watcher would feel attached to any of these characters with the little bit of development they actually get.

Anyway, when Toucanbird gave the original statistics, 187,803/ 244,607, or 77% of people who watch Clannad go on to watch After Story.

That statistic includes the people who have Clannad On-Hold, on Plan to Watch, or Dropped, which accounts for 51,064 people total. It also factors in the includes 28543 people who plan to watch Clannad After Story without actually doing it.

By MY statistics:
79% of people who complete Clannad will go on to complete Clannad After Story. (145,305 / 181,667)
87.67% of people who complete Clannad will go on to start watching Clannad.

There's a reason why I kept the "Watching: 6,881, Completed: 145,305, On-Hold: 4,610, Dropped:2,472 " part, rather than just calculating the watch attempts total without giving the other statistic.

I was providing more precise data than what was already here, and didn't think I actually needed to do the math for you.
Your turn.
Dec 22, 2013 5:11 AM

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Is the only reason why Clannad and LB are always being compared to each other is b/c its the same author who did both of them?

I like LB but I think it got over hyped. I was truely expecting a masterpiece based on what a lot of my online and irl friends were saying who had played the VN. But Even as a non-VN player i could tell this anime was rushed, I like all the characters in LB but never really got attached to any of them. There were a lot of sad moments in LB but none of them had me feeling emotional until episode 11-12 of Refrain.

I think though If I ever had the time to play the LB VN it won't change how I feel about the story in general. I'm sure I will see a couple of scenes and be like "Why didn't they make this scene as good in the anime" because it seems like in the discussion threads that people are always complaining about poor adaptations.

Even if i had seen LB before i watched Clannad, I would have given Clannad a much better score.

tl;dr

I like both Clannad and Little Busters, although I was expecting a lot more out of Little Busters because of the hype. I just didn't get the same "feels" as I did whenever I watch Clannad. Did it have potential to be better ? Probably but I still don't think it would have been as good as Clannad. Which is sad because I've been waiting to find an anime that could give me the same feels as clannad did.
Dec 22, 2013 5:26 AM

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Sep 2012
1820
@Muchan

First impressions mean a lot. You probably already ruined Little Busters for yourself by watching the anime. The execution was so much better and you'd have been so much more attached to the characters in the first place that you probably would've felt much more than you could possibly feel from any anime.

>Did it have potential to be better ? Probably but I still don't think it would have been as good as Clannad. Which is sad because I've been waiting to find an anime that could give me the same feels as clannad did.

No, it had the potential to be much better and damn close to Clannad. The anime just isn't there. Sorry that there's no anime that's close to the level of Clannad for you, because Little Busters could've been that one. Just keep in mind that the VN exists and that it's comparable to the Clannad anime. In fact, everyone I know who has read it says that it is as good if not better.

The anime was overhyped because the VN is often considered to be better than the Clannad anime. The anime didn't turn out well, and I'd say there's not a single dramatic event that is NEARLY as emotional in the anime as in the VN, so there's that for how good it is vs. how good it could've been.

You can't tell how much better the series really could've been unless you've actually read the source material. I don't think I'd be able to tell that this mediocre adaptation was supposed to be "Key/ Jun Maeda's masterpiece" if I only watched the anime.

I watched Fate/Stay Night and the movie which were crap adaptations and they were two of the weakest action anime/movies I've ever seen, yet the visual novel is so far superior and packs one of the best stories I've ever read and is now one of my favorites, so there's that for an Anime vs. VN.

You'd have to have some insight on the VN medium and know how good it can actually be before bringing up comparisons like this.
Vladz0rDec 22, 2013 5:32 AM
Dec 22, 2013 5:32 AM

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Muchan said:
Is the only reason why Clannad and LB are always being compared to each other is b/c its the same author who did both of them?

I like LB but I think it got over hyped. I was truely expecting a masterpiece based on what a lot of my online and irl friends were saying who had played the VN. But Even as a non-VN player i could tell this anime was rushed, I like all the characters in LB but never really got attached to any of them. There were a lot of sad moments in LB but none of them had me feeling emotional until episode 11-12 of Refrain.

I think though If I ever had the time to play the LB VN it won't change how I feel about the story in general. I'm sure I will see a couple of scenes and be like "Why didn't they make this scene as good in the anime" because it seems like in the discussion threads that people are always complaining about poor adaptations.

Even if i had seen LB before i watched Clannad, I would have given Clannad a much better score.

tl;dr

I like both Clannad and Little Busters, although I was expecting a lot more out of Little Busters because of the hype. I just didn't get the same "feels" as I did whenever I watch Clannad. Did it have potential to be better ? Probably but I still don't think it would have been as good as Clannad. Which is sad because I've been waiting to find an anime that could give me the same feels as clannad did.

Little Busters and Clannad spoilers:

SleepingEntityDec 22, 2013 5:37 AM
Dec 22, 2013 5:54 AM

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Vladz0r said:

You'd have to have some insight on the VN medium and know how good it can actually be before bringing up comparisons like this.


Well after the anime is done airing I'll play the VN and see for myself. Thanks to both of you for responding so quickly though :D It is almost sad to hear that the Little Busters anime could have been so much better.

SleepingEntity said:




Those were the two main scenes that gave me the "feels" so far in the anime.
Dec 22, 2013 6:06 AM

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LB is much better as a story imo.
Even the side heroine routes handle a broader thematic and are more character driven, where you have Fuko, Tomoyo, Kotomi, and Kyou's routes driven by primarily supernatural, the school committee and popular opinion, miraculous fulfillment and promises, and a love triangle.

The positive themes to come out of those stories are okay, but they're not anything to me, so maybe I'm biased towards the themes of the LB routes that are about self-acceptance, facing your inferiority complexes, accepting your regrets, etc.

And the dream world and everything poured into it building up to the climax seems like a much better story on paper than Clannad's.
Clannad has the benefit of endearing characters, a beautiful soundtrack, and the amazing animation and screenplay to aid to its believably, but a lot of the story aspects in Clannad don't feel incredibly inspired at times, probably due to the lack of complexity. My favorite parts of Clannad include the things related to the Place Where Wishes Come True and the things related to that. Tomoya's relationship with Nagisa, the deaths in the series, making up with his father, etc, are really common things that are glorified in the show.

I couldn't compare something like that to the complexity of Kengo and his struggle in Little Busters. Sadly, he got 21 minutes for a nearly 2 hour arc from the visual novel, so I can't really argue it much without VN evidence.
Dec 22, 2013 6:22 AM

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Vladz0r said:
The series is much more popular in Japan than it is here.
VN popularity barely means anything for how popular its adaptation is outside of Japan. The quality and reception of the adaption holds a lot of the favor.
Key's most popular VN is its least popular anime.

Steins;Gate didn't even get popular until episode 11 and people started going crazy for it, despite it being rated as one of the top VNs of all time.

There are some shows like White Album 2 that are getting hype from the source material, but for VN readers and for anime-only watchers, it is meeting the hype already in terms of presenting the realistic story it wanted to present.

You should check out my LB Analysis gallery btw- http://imgur.com/a/fSJLK


I agree with you that this series has some brilliant foreshadowing and that's what I love about it so much. As each new episode airs, it has me thinking back to events in past episodes that foreshadowed that conclusion. The big ones for me (and I'm going to spoiler tag this just to be safe)



I started getting a really bad vibe from the near start of Refrain. I had a good feeling that something tragic happened or was going to happen, but I couldn't quite put my finger on exactly what that is. It turned out that the end result was a lot more tragic than I expected it to be, but after thinking back on the foreshadowing, I figured it shouldn't have been that surprising.

There were a ton of other small nuances in this show that foreshadowed this but the nice thing about it is while it foreshadowed it, it didn't make it predictable. I didn't expect the bus crash until it was foreshadowed in the spoiler tag above.
Dec 22, 2013 3:26 PM

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I highly doubt it.

It's been good though
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Dec 22, 2013 5:00 PM
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Vladz0r said:

Okay, let me explain to you how drama and emotional attachment works, and what's wrong with this adaptation.

a.)
You spend 19 episodes on heroine routes, and 1 episode each to Masato and Kengo's arcs. Several of the stories are now significantly weaker than the VN because of this.

b.)
You give Kurugaya, Haruka, and Rin and extra episode each.
You give Masato and Kengo an extra episode each to build up the conflict, characterization, believability.
Now, you have 5 different story arc endings spread throughout the series with better character exploration, and better emotional climaxes throughout the story.


It seems to me that you take a "episodic comparing" approach, which would not make a good story writing. You need to see the big picture of the entire both series. There are two seasons and they didn't regard them as two separate projects. Komari was there in the episode 24; Riki as a captain in the episode 25. They put important lines in the episode 26. This perfectly makes sense, because it's the last episode of the season one.

I didn't want to completely dismiss the "give one episode each" idea, but there are 10 members in the full cast. Simply giving each character one episode will result in 10 episodes which make almost one-cour. Although You only suggested 5 extra episodes, but I want to further explain why I think this is a large cast and it really doesn't make any differences whether they gave more episodes or not.

In the anime, I think the most comfortable size of the main group is about 5 or 6 members. Within 5 or 6 main characters, the story will easily focused. For example, ToraDora! has 5. K-on! (first season) has 5. Ano Natsu de Matteru has 6. Kokoro Connect? 5. Obviously, the Little Busters are a lot larger than that. If you count Midori and Kanata in, there are 12 main characters.

How to play along with this large cast? First, we need some phrased goals or a "middle boss". Second, we need good cliffhangers. In the first half of the season one, the temporary goal was recruiting, and the middle boss was Kanata. In the second half of the season one, the goal was the exhibition game, and the middle boss was all-stars team.

As you can see, there was no such goal or boss in the season two, because the ~Refrain~ arc itself is a goal and a final boss. There were goals, this helped keeping anime-only viewers, because a goal (temporary or not) makes you somehow "know" what the show were doing. Riki were busy, he has done many things in the season one in fact. Nevertheless, those goals or bosses wouldn't stay forever there, they will be solved by Rin and Riki. After that, things must be unveiled inevitably.

Anime-only viewers didn't know what happened, and this is exactly what Riki and Rin feel. We are at the same position as Riki, we know what he knows, and didn't know what he didn't know. This is a great story-writing approach if you ask me. You VN Players know the Secrets, so you didn't feel for Riki because you know too much.

"No temporary goal" was the goal of the season two. After the exhibition game with all-stars team, they didn't provide a new goal to audiences. It feels confusing at first, but eventually makes sense. There are only three important goals in the entire both series: recruiting, the game with all-stars team, and ~Refrain~ arc itself.

Let's talk about cliffhangers. A good cliffhanger keeps people watching, and the cliffhangers in the Little Busters anime were spectacular. VN players tend to ignore the cliffhangers because they knew what would be going to happen. Whenever a great cliffhanger on air, VN players just ignored the excellent story-writing and hyped "next episode" at full speed. They weren't even conscious of the fact that it's a hell of a good cliffhanger. They totally didn't become aware of the existence of the cliffhanger. For example, VN players didn't find out


Well, that was the first half of the reply. Vladz0r, your article is so long! ;P

tl;dr

The full cast is 10 members which is large; you need to see the big picture. Personally I didn't like the attitude of comparing every detail episode by episode.
fauztyDec 22, 2013 5:05 PM
Dec 23, 2013 9:32 AM
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Vladz0r said:

You might ask what was wrong with those arcs...

Haruka's personality fluctuates incredibly, and the story was cut down a lot from the original story. Buildup for Futaki's antagonism and better pacing for Haruka's story would've been better. There was also more involvement with Riki in the route that was cut out due to time constraints.

Kurugaya had a diary she had written in each day of the time loop in order to recall her memories of each passing day with Riki. They removed any sort of dynamic relationship between the two characters, and so her farewell is melodramatic and driven primarily by Kurugaya's backstory and the one fireworks show they experienced.

Rin's route got cut an episode short where they made the back end of her route into a 4 minute montage. Riki was working hard in the fields, suffering from narcolepsy, while trying to take care of Rin. This was a tense and emotional struggle that showed Riki's motivation to become stronger and be able to do what Kyousuke once did: take care of Rin. This makes Riki and Rin getting caught, and Riki's want to "become stronger" more forced as part of the story without much actual substance for Riki's motivation.

Masato's I feel needed at least half an episode, because his internal delusions were merely brushed over, and there wasn't a lot to be able to feel for Masato.
Also, they couldn't use the same OST from the visual novel because of time constraints, and I felt the song they chose was out of place, but necessary to have a sung insert song at the end of the show.

Kengo's conflict with the Secret of the World is very quickly explained, and his flashbacks and conflict with Kyousuke is also brushed over. More buildup to the game vs. Riki/Rin and more development for Kengo will make his character feel more dynamic and believable, so that episodes 9 and 11 would've had a better emotional impact for him.


The Refrain arc is the arc. This shall be regarded as one full-fledged arc. Please try to treat this arc as a whole, do not slash it into pieces. VN Players could play it continuously, and regard it as piece by piece, on the contrary, ironically anime-only viewers watch it separately (weekly) and regard it as a continuous series.

It's 30+ episode of build-ups and 4 episodes of the resolution. IMHO, Rin's arc is a integral part of the ~Refrain~ series, even Kurugaya's is among them. Kurugaya's route was received so well, many people who watch these episodes became Kurugaya's big fan. the Riki x Kurugaya dynamics is strong in the anime. Fireworks are one of the most important symbol of this series. It seems to me that you didn't notice how good J.C. Staff do on the fireworks scene. Hint:
At this point, you still understated the firework events, just like you won't be satisfied with the end episode 6.


Vladz0r said:

The reason I called it a "far and distant payoff" is because all the smaller arcs building up to the climax of Refrain are rushed as fuck. I can't see a reason why a non-casual anime watcher would feel attached to any of these characters with the little bit of development they actually get.

Anyway, when Toucanbird gave the original statistics, 187,803/ 244,607, or 77% of people who watch Clannad go on to watch After Story.

That statistic includes the people who have Clannad On-Hold, on Plan to Watch, or Dropped, which accounts for 51,064 people total. It also factors in the includes 28543 people who plan to watch Clannad After Story without actually doing it.

By MY statistics:
79% of people who complete Clannad will go on to complete Clannad After Story. (145,305 / 181,667)
87.67% of people who complete Clannad will go on to start watching Clannad.

There's a reason why I kept the "Watching: 6,881, Completed: 145,305, On-Hold: 4,610, Dropped:2,472 " part, rather than just calculating the watch attempts total without giving the other statistic.

I was providing more precise data than what was already here, and didn't think I actually needed to do the math for you.
Your turn.
fauztyDec 23, 2013 3:25 PM
Dec 23, 2013 10:19 AM

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Just because the anime is something that's often watched continuous, doesn't mean I'm going to say that Masato's arc was handled well, for example, just because it's part of the larger Refrain arc and should be watched straight through. He clearly has an episode dedicated to his conflict, and that makes it his episode.

I guess I don't grasp the "deep symbolism" of the fireworks. I know that they're supposed to represent Kurugaya feeling her first explosion of emotions for the first time. Riki and the Little Busters showing her the fireworks parallels Riki showing Kurugaya feeling emotions. The shadows show them coming together and shifting apart, which I guess can be stretched to her inevitable farewell in the 3rd episode. It can be how the world is made up of everyone, and how the Little Busters are all connected, etc. We also get the hints of Rin's feelings and whatnot. It's a nice and powerful moment indeed.

Tonokawa certainly does write in a way where you can interpret his themes and symbolism in different ways. The Little Busters anime definitely boasts its powerful symbolism from the visual novel, but when its presentation is lacking in development, it's a bit frustrating to hear complaints from people who don't grasp Little Busters on a thematic level. There's a thematic story to Little Busters as well as a literal one, and I can't just neglect one or the other. Maybe Little Busters is just really so thematically and symbolically driven that the people who obtain the most enjoyment from the series are the people who think this way. I didn't really think of LB so heavily thematically in the VN, and I enjoyed the story as it was presented.

Anyway, my complaints are more aimed towards some sloppiness in handling things, and Tonokawa as a script supervisor wasn't a great choice for the story itself, even if the show does boast a great deal of symbolism that is, in some cases, even better accentuated than in the VN.
Dec 23, 2013 1:27 PM

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I'd like to see it in the top 5, but it's almost impossible given the amount of disillusioned VN readers and Clannad fans expecting this to be Afterstory 2.0.

The VN readers need to stop looking at this show as an adaptation, and judge the show independently. It's a very good show, and this is coming from a VN reader.

First of all, it's difficult for a TV show to have the same emotional appeal as a novel (visual novel, whatever). The former is told and seen in third-person (with some narrative from a central character), while the latter is seen through the eyes of a character/first-person narrative. Because of that, thoughts, emotions and feelings are far more easily conveyed and expressed. You are one with the character; when he suffers, you suffer. So for obvious format reasons, the emotional impact will not be the same due to the difference in storytelling and narration.

You also get more screen-time with characters. We're comparing a 50-hour game with a 13 hour anime series (S1+OVA+Refrain; assuming 20min per episode). This means you get less time to connect with the characters. I'm not pleased with how some of the arcs were handled. But while adding a few extra episodes would make things less contrived, I would not recommend it.
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