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My Youth Romantic Comedy Is Wrong, As I Expected (light novel)
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May 16, 2015 10:47 AM

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Mar 2013
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I find it funny that the only people in these threads that argue in favour of Yukino's cruel ass that don't make effort for shit are the ones that tag her as "waifu" and act like she's a queen (Why exactly? Because the story wanks over how "perfect" her pretentious holier than thou persona is?) but then complain that other people are tainted by "hating" her when it's obvious their view is tainted by how much they love her. They're all just constantly refusing to admit that the shit she does is wrong and downright mean to Hachiman, basically because they're biased. People that you're having a go at for "hating" on her don't like her because they paid attention to her damn character beyond "wow, she's pretty and cold, I want her to step on me!".
May 16, 2015 11:24 AM

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Feb 2015
161
snarlmane said:
Anyone else think that the Service Club serves as a front for Yukino to make amends for the car accident?

Yup, I do. I've always thought there was an ulterior purpose to the Service Club, and I thought it out exactly like you. I agree with most of your points, but I'm not going to nitpick, because they are a lot, so let's just say they are all plausible. We need to wait and see (or read if you can't wait, volume 11 HYPE TRAIN!!).
May 16, 2015 11:24 AM

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Aug 2011
90
@snarlmane thank you, that helped me understand her character a lot more since I forgot that car accident even happened o_O ( i don't have a good memory about a show i watched in a day or two ) and i feel like she has barely been here this season, but i now understand the drama in this season and can look forward to the next episode instead of feeling like it's a dragging show with unecessary tension between group members.
May 16, 2015 11:32 AM
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Jun 2013
74
Once again, this is merely my take on the on the show. I came to this conclusion after finishing the first season. So far, season 2 has yet to show me anything that contradicts my theory. Don't just immediately believe what I say, instead take what I say into account and re-watch the first season (and second) if you really care about the show and form your own conclusion.
snarlmaneMay 16, 2015 11:37 AM
May 16, 2015 11:42 AM
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Sep 2012
15
snarlmane said:
Once again, this is merely my take on the on the show. I came to this conclusion after finishing the first season. So far, season 2 has yet to show me anything that contradicts my theory. Don't just immediately believe what I say, instead take what I say into account and re-watch the first season (and second) if you really care about the show and form your own conclusion.


Sure, it was a nice read. Thanks.

How they just glossed over car accident because of the festival was really uncomforting. I guess even the LNs which I didnt read did not resolve that issue so best I can do is wait.
May 16, 2015 12:20 PM

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Jan 2015
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I sure am glad I read that. It pretty much resolves some of my worries about the ridiculousness of the premise, which I consider to be the weakest aspect of this series. I sought explanations for the entire existence of the club but to no avail. This possibility did occur to me before but I summarily dismissed it as being highly unlikely based on her behavior around him, so reading your post shed more light into that possibility. This totally raised the probability to 50%.

Nonetheless, there are a couple of points that this theory needs to address. I can think of a few nitpicks and several answers to such nitpicks. Heck this deserves a thread of its own. Create one now!
May 16, 2015 12:35 PM
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Jun 2013
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supracseduch said:

I sure am glad I read that. It pretty much resolves some of my worries about the ridiculousness of the premise, which I consider to be the weakest aspect of this series. I sought explanations for the entire existence of the club but to no avail. This possibility did occur to me before but I summarily dismissed it as being highly unlikely based on her behavior around him, so reading your post shed more light into that possibility. This totally raised the probability to 50%.

Nonetheless, there are a couple of points that this theory needs to address. I can think of a few nitpicks and several answers to such nitpicks. Heck this deserves a thread of its own. Create one now!


Eh, I'd rather not start a thread about it, I don't really like being the centre of attention. I just wanted to point a few things out to people who were name calling aspects of the show without understanding it. With which parts do you have problems, I'll try and address them as much as possible. Keep in mind I'm merely someone who has only watched the show, not read the LNs, if you want an in-depth analysis about other aspects of the show go read Spyro's blog thing. He has a fairly good grasp on the show/source material. (I haven't seen him mention the existence of the club or Yukino's motives though, or at least not from what I've seen). Unless you're already aware of who Spyro is, in which case never mind.
May 16, 2015 12:41 PM

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Dec 2014
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Naoki-Saten said:


I do agree with you on some points, but I also think you're being a bit too harsh to Yukino.

You're calling her a genius, but you're forgetting that everything regarding social life is Yukino's weak point. She's super clumsy when it comes to social problems. She just doesn't know how to patch things up with Hachiman. I mean, Hachiman didn't know it either. He was watching Hayama's group to try and find a hint on how to do that.

There's two more things that you seem to be forgetting:

1. Yukino currently looks really worn out for a reason. Ever since episode 2 Season 2, she has taken quite a beating from many people around her. Every time she did step in and try to do something, she's been shot down.
Hachiman repeatedly went solo on the club activities and did things in a way that hurt Yukino.
When Yukino declared her student council candidacy, Yui, as her friend, should have supported her, but she entered the run as her opponent instead, for the sole reason of stopping her.
Hayama was supposed to discuss his own candidacy with Yui and Yukino but he actually only called them so that they could show they're "pretty girls close to Hachiman" and then go back home. Not to mention that they were forced to witness Hachiman on a date with other girls.
Haruno jumped in and provoked Yukino into doing her bidding by comparing her to their hateful mother.
Iroha pretty much trolled Yukino by making a request, then pulling it back after causing a lot of trouble. Of course, this is mostly Hachiman's fault.
You mentioned the 'sweet moments' that Yui had with Hachiman. But that was kind of to be expected. Hachiman was Yui's one and only worry ever since the beginning of the series. She didn't even notice how her own clique was falling apart. Yui had the leisure to fully concentrate on Hachiman.
Yukino didn't. She had a club to lead, family issues, studies, and all the other stuff I mentioned in previous discussions.

2. Right now, Yukino is questioning her bonds with the club members, and Hachiman played a role in that impression. You see, both Yukino and Hachiman despise shallowness. Yet Hachiman is trying to protect the club with shallow lies. From Yukino's point of view, wouldn't that look like Hachiman is doubting their bonds? That Hachiman already stopped believing in their relationship? (To put it in a cheesy way, Hachiman stopped believing in the power of their friendship.)
So now, instead of figuring out a way of how to deal with their conflict and repair their relationship (which was already quite challenging), Yukino is forced to take a step back and find out if the relationship is even real.

So once again, I do get your point, but I also find that saying that Yukino is only ever thinking of herself, and that she's capable of, but unwilling to improve the situation, isn't exactly fair.


Yes, Yui would have supported her candidacy IF only Yukino had SAID her intentions on running for sc prez and not going behind her back. Like a betrayal, right? Of course, Gahama would react like that.

Yukino as you said wants to find out if their relationship is for real. Like testing it....
Why the heck would she do that? Even if she is angry at 8man why would she include Yui to this "test"? The closest friend she ever had, who admired her and at the very least did not antogonize her. Yukinon, with those actions of her, is akin to "burning bridges". Specifically to Yui.
May 16, 2015 12:57 PM

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Feb 2015
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testamentKAISER said:

Yukino as you said wants to find out if their relationship is for real. Like testing it....
Why the heck would she do that? Even if she is angry at 8man why would she include Yui to this "test"? The closest friend she ever had, who admired her and at the very least did not antogonize her. Yukinon, with those actions of her, is akin to "burning bridges". Specifically to Yui.

That's because the notion that Yukino was trying to test their relationship is wrong. She is not some omnipotent, cold and calculating being. She's just a teenage girl. Yukino was trying to become the student council president for different reasons, and it never crossed her mind that the relationship with Yui and Hachiman would suffer as a result, because, as far as she was concerned, their relationship was a relationship that was not confined by the club existing or not.
May 16, 2015 12:58 PM

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Jan 2015
124
snarlmane said:
Eh, I'd rather not start a thread about it, I don't really like being the centre of attention. I just wanted to point a few things out to people who were name calling aspects of the show without understanding it. With which parts do you have problems, I'll try and address them as much as possible.


Lol, this is the internet and you're completely anonymous. (You're probably Canadian though).
But I see what you mean. I can just create such a topic by quoting your wall of text, but I won't for the same reason you refuse to. Even if someone else does, it may end up not receiving enough attention seeing how lengthy the opening post will be.

Anyways, if we accept this theory as true, the circumstances that led to the club's creation must have been:
-Yukino feels guilty because of lasting effects the accident had on Hachiman, after quietly observing him (and Yui) throughout their first year of high school.
-She consults Hiratsuka-sensei regarding this. The solution they come up with is to create a Service Club. Hiratsuka-sensei promptly calls Hachiman to her office and asks him about what he thinks about his high school life so far.
-Hachiman's response (the essay about youth being a lie) reveals to Hiratsuka-sensei just how "depraved" he is. So she proceeds with the plan to enlist him into the club.

But:
Why is Yukino openly hostile towards Hachiman the first time they meet? Was she (and Shizuka-sensei) convinced it's the most effective way to reform Hachiman?
How do we account for Yui being the club's first client? Is this some sort of freak coincidence, or did they somehow set things up such that Yui would need help baking cookies?

Just a couple of points that need addressing.
May 16, 2015 1:01 PM

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Jan 2013
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snarlmane said:

Anyone else think that the Service Club...


Hey, I like that idea. It doesn't click with me to 100%, and sounds a bit forced at times, but I certainly like it. Kudos.
May 16, 2015 1:58 PM
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Sep 2014
13
EP 08: Even so, Hikigaya Hachiman is. (Can't wait!)

EP 09: And Then, Yukinoshita Yukino is. (Can't wait!!!)

EP 10: the arc ends

I love that HachimanxYukino scene at the end :)

testamentKAISER said:
Naoki-Saten said:


I do agree with you on some points, but I also think you're being a bit too harsh to Yukino.

You're calling her a genius, but you're forgetting that everything regarding social life is Yukino's weak point. She's super clumsy when it comes to social problems. She just doesn't know how to patch things up with Hachiman. I mean, Hachiman didn't know it either. He was watching Hayama's group to try and find a hint on how to do that.

There's two more things that you seem to be forgetting:

1. Yukino currently looks really worn out for a reason. Ever since episode 2 Season 2, she has taken quite a beating from many people around her. Every time she did step in and try to do something, she's been shot down.
Hachiman repeatedly went solo on the club activities and did things in a way that hurt Yukino.
When Yukino declared her student council candidacy, Yui, as her friend, should have supported her, but she entered the run as her opponent instead, for the sole reason of stopping her.
Hayama was supposed to discuss his own candidacy with Yui and Yukino but he actually only called them so that they could show they're "pretty girls close to Hachiman" and then go back home. Not to mention that they were forced to witness Hachiman on a date with other girls.
Haruno jumped in and provoked Yukino into doing her bidding by comparing her to their hateful mother.
Iroha pretty much trolled Yukino by making a request, then pulling it back after causing a lot of trouble. Of course, this is mostly Hachiman's fault.
You mentioned the 'sweet moments' that Yui had with Hachiman. But that was kind of to be expected. Hachiman was Yui's one and only worry ever since the beginning of the series. She didn't even notice how her own clique was falling apart. Yui had the leisure to fully concentrate on Hachiman.
Yukino didn't. She had a club to lead, family issues, studies, and all the other stuff I mentioned in previous discussions.

2. Right now, Yukino is questioning her bonds with the club members, and Hachiman played a role in that impression. You see, both Yukino and Hachiman despise shallowness. Yet Hachiman is trying to protect the club with shallow lies. From Yukino's point of view, wouldn't that look like Hachiman is doubting their bonds? That Hachiman already stopped believing in their relationship? (To put it in a cheesy way, Hachiman stopped believing in the power of their friendship.)
So now, instead of figuring out a way of how to deal with their conflict and repair their relationship (which was already quite challenging), Yukino is forced to take a step back and find out if the relationship is even real.

So once again, I do get your point, but I also find that saying that Yukino is only ever thinking of herself, and that she's capable of, but unwilling to improve the situation, isn't exactly fair.


Yes, Yui would have supported her candidacy IF only Yukino had SAID her intentions on running for sc prez and not going behind her back. Like a betrayal, right? Of course, Gahama would react like that.

Yukino as you said wants to find out if their relationship is for real. Like testing it....
Why the heck would she do that? Even if she is angry at 8man why would she include Yui to this "test"? The closest friend she ever had, who admired her and at the very least did not antogonize her. Yukinon, with those actions of her, is akin to "burning bridges". Specifically to Yui.

Dude, I don't think you even get it. Yukino wants to believe that the relationship they have are not so fragile that something like her being president would destroy it. But, Yui and Hachiman were under impression that if the club gone the same goes for their relationship. Were the relationship they have up until now is just a relationship of "three students tied down by this thing called the Service Club"? If so, then their relationship is nothing more than a superficial relationship. We know that both Hachiman and Yukino hate superficiality unlike Yui who's already used to superficiality (she's part of Hayama's group, remember?).

On the side note, in episode 2, Yui yells at Hachiman telling him to think more about other people feelings. I almost laugh at this scene. Why? Throughout episode 1 and 2, she's been forcing herself to get close with Hachiman to the point that it visibly annoyed and bothered Hachiman... so, was she even thinking about Hachiman's feelings? Wasn't she just being a hypocrite here? We all know that Yui is really good at reading mood so how can she still do that knowing how annoyed Hachiman was.

And during the election arc when Hachiman's planning to sacrifice himself again, does Yui even openly oppose him? No. She just said that she didn't like it but she did nothing to stop him. She doesn't want Hachiman to hate her. She only feels for him and nothing more. It was Yukino who openly oppose him because she doesn't want him to hurt himself again even if it means that he would probably hate her for it.
FriedfingersJohnMay 16, 2015 2:02 PM
May 16, 2015 2:36 PM

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Jan 2015
2743
Damn those were some pretty deep characterizations of SNAFU. I think Vol.11 will clear up most of the smoke and let us truly see what the club is about and whether or not their relations are superficial or not. I personally seeing it end up where Hachiman ends up with Either Iroha or nobody but forms strong friendships for the first time with Yui and Yuki.
Big Order (TV):great anime or greatest anime?
May 16, 2015 2:44 PM

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Dec 2014
6433
FriedfingersJohn said:
EP 08: Even so, Hikigaya Hachiman is. (Can't wait!)

EP 09: And Then, Yukinoshita Yukino is. (Can't wait!!!)

EP 10: the arc ends

I love that HachimanxYukino scene at the end :)

testamentKAISER said:


Yes, Yui would have supported her candidacy IF only Yukino had SAID her intentions on running for sc prez and not going behind her back. Like a betrayal, right? Of course, Gahama would react like that.

Yukino as you said wants to find out if their relationship is for real. Like testing it....
Why the heck would she do that? Even if she is angry at 8man why would she include Yui to this "test"? The closest friend she ever had, who admired her and at the very least did not antogonize her. Yukinon, with those actions of her, is akin to "burning bridges". Specifically to Yui.

Dude, I don't think you even get it. Yukino wants to believe that the relationship they have are not so fragile that something like her being president would destroy it. But, Yui and Hachiman were under impression that if the club gone the same goes for their relationship. Were the relationship they have up until now is just a relationship of "three students tied down by this thing called the Service Club"? If so, then their relationship is nothing more than a superficial relationship. We know that both Hachiman and Yukino hate superficiality unlike Yui who's already used to superficiality (she's part of Hayama's group, remember?).

On the side note, in episode 2, Yui yells at Hachiman telling him to think more about other people feelings. I almost laugh at this scene. Why? Throughout episode 1 and 2, she's been forcing herself to get close with Hachiman to the point that it visibly annoyed and bothered Hachiman... so, was she even thinking about Hachiman's feelings? Wasn't she just being a hypocrite here? We all know that Yui is really good at reading mood so how can she still do that knowing how annoyed Hachiman was.

And during the election arc when Hachiman's planning to sacrifice himself again, does Yui even openly oppose him? No. She just said that she didn't like it but she did nothing to stop him. She doesn't want Hachiman to hate her. She only feels for him and nothing more. It was Yukino who openly oppose him because she doesn't want him to hurt himself again even if it means that he would probably hate her for it.


Hehehe wow,
Because they know and experienced it at the school festival, Yukinon will drive herself to better the task like she did, to the point of exhausting herself. (Remember?) And she is an assistant/commitee leader at that time. What do you think Hikki and Yui thought if Yukinon became sc prez?

And you forgot another funny scene, remember the 1st episode of season 1? Yukino insulted/judge Hachiman by the way he looks. That's being superficial, right? Ironic, isn't it? :)


Episode 2 of season 2.. Before the fake confession, 8man stated that tobe will be rejected,
Then yukino ponders on what to do, 8man says that there is a way to make things work out, yukino asks what is it, 8man stays silent, then Yukino said "well, we'll leave it to you"... IF only she had insisted what Hikki will do then those sh*storm would have never happened. But instead gave him the go signal.
testamentKAISERMay 16, 2015 2:47 PM
May 16, 2015 2:53 PM
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Sep 2013
280
As someone who read the novel (and stopped) till mid volume 10, there was literally nothing that would explain or give even sightliest idea why she (Yukino) acted the ways she does.
Of course, you can make lengthy posts, speculation, but there's no substance or basis for any of it that could back it up.
All in all, show's really simple.
There's no award winning writing on novels and certainly show isn't anything outstanding or unique either.
May 16, 2015 3:21 PM
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Apr 2014
3
Could anyone explain the ending scene with yukinox8man, maybe the subs were bad, or maybe my situation awareness isn't that great, but I didn't get it. She told him he could stay away from the club for a while. Well, they have nothing to do there at the moment, and he's busy, so as far as I understand, he should just focus on more important things, that's like a very logical and plain thing, but everyone takes it for something serious, like a "break up" or "club disbanding". That scene looked like nothing special to me, from the words spoken, although body language did suggest something deeper. Could anyone elaborate? Thanks
May 16, 2015 3:30 PM

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Mar 2015
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DevilMayCare said:
Could anyone explain the ending scene with yukinox8man, maybe the subs were bad, or maybe my situation awareness isn't that great, but I didn't get it. She told him he could stay away from the club for a while. Well, they have nothing to do there at the moment, and he's busy, so as far as I understand, he should just focus on more important things, that's like a very logical and plain thing, but everyone takes it for something serious, like a "break up" or "club disbanding". That scene looked like nothing special to me, from the words spoken, although body language did suggest something deeper. Could anyone elaborate? Thanks


I personally viewed it as Yukinon asking Hachiman to leave the club to be focusing on important things like helping Iroha. But we know that Yukinon wants to be the president, and Hachiman also declined Iroha's request as a club. To me I see that Yukinon starting to doubt Hachiman's friendship which is why:

Basically she's kind of feel betrayed by Hachiman's action. So her break up with Hachiman kind of have a deeper meaning as Yukinon said to Hachiman to stop forcing himself, as if Hachiman keeps going to the club to maintain a superficial friendship. At least that's what I see.

May 16, 2015 3:55 PM
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Apr 2014
3
DarklordVor said:
DevilMayCare said:
Could anyone explain the ending scene with yukinox8man, maybe the subs were bad, or maybe my situation awareness isn't that great, but I didn't get it. She told him he could stay away from the club for a while. Well, they have nothing to do there at the moment, and he's busy, so as far as I understand, he should just focus on more important things, that's like a very logical and plain thing, but everyone takes it for something serious, like a "break up" or "club disbanding". That scene looked like nothing special to me, from the words spoken, although body language did suggest something deeper. Could anyone elaborate? Thanks



I personally viewed it as Yukinon asking Hachiman to leave the club to be focusing on important things like helping Iroha. But we know that Yukinon wants to be the president, and Hachiman also declined Iroha's request as a club. To me I see that Yukinon starting to doubt Hachiman's friendship which is why:

Basically she's kind of feel betrayed by Hachiman's action. So her break up with Hachiman kind of have a deeper meaning as Yukinon said to Hachiman to stop forcing himself, as if Hachiman keeps going to the club to maintain a superficial friendship. At least that's what I see.


You've helped me put the pieces together!
Before this scene Hachiman said :
"I only do things alone because I am alone. Aren't you the same?
Yukino replied :
"No. I'm not" with a sad expression.
And then the scene in your picture happened, after saying these words, yukino had an expression, shimmering eyes, a smile (can't find the word for it :D).
So basically, yukino sees them(the club) as a group of friends, but hachiman acts like they're not, he took the request himself, never asks for help, does things alone as if they weren't friends.
Earlier in this episode, Yui also told Hachiman "You don't have to do everything by yourself" when talking about him helping his sister.
So both girls want to be friends together, and hachiman still goes by his loner way, like they weren't friends (also starts questioning his way in this episode, as in he wants to change his ways and become "real" friends with them, not superficial).
Haven't read the novels, but I bet in the coming episodes they will "officially" become friends
May 16, 2015 3:59 PM

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Dec 2009
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Hachiman's methods at solving problems at hand seem to work in the short term, but I think has finally realized that in the long term his methods are not accomplishing anything.

The little girl from summer camp is still a loner despite Hachiman's attempts.

Isshiki is struggling as a president because Hachiman wanted to keep the club together without any signs she is getting better.

Ebina may have kept her relationship with her group stable for now, but we can all see that Hayama's group is one built on a superficial pedestal which will break at any moment.

Most importantly he is damaging the relationship he has with Yui and Yukino. He does everything himself without thinking about others, and now that there are others to think about he can't keep this pony show going.

I could just feel Hachiman's pain in that last scene. Yukino basically attacked his very ideals and telling him not to come to club was basically a roundabout way of saying that he doesn't need to worry about her or Yui anymore. That's rough, even for Yukino. But I have to agree with her. You can only watch someone you care about hurt and do everything himself before you have to turn away.
May 16, 2015 4:10 PM

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I think with all that's been discussed today we can come to the conclusion that: Yukino has good intentions, but she has a STUPID way of going about it. Just like 8man. THEY'RE PERFECT FOR EACH OTHER. #wemadeitguys
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May 16, 2015 4:12 PM
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supracseduch said:
Why is Yukino openly hostile towards Hachiman the first time they meet? Was she (and Shizuka-sensei) convinced it's the most effective way to reform Hachiman?


Like I’ve said, Yukino has trouble talking to Hachiman directly and honestly because of the car accident. She can’t approach him and say that she was responsible, because as a proud loner he doesn’t need anyone’s pity. Which is why Yukino needs to figure out a round-about way of helping him, in this case spending time with him in the Service Club while slowly peeling away his rotten attitude. If you watch S1E1, look how much resistance he puts up to the idea of joining: “I don’t need to change, I like myself perfectly the way I am right now. Problem? I’m pretty talented, you know? I’m more dashing than most, too. You could say I’m top of the line, if you ignore the fact that I have no friends or a girlfriend. It’s not like I can’t talk to people, I just don’t like making small talk. I don’t need rehab. I don’t need people telling me who I should be damn it. But isn’t changing myself also running away? Why can’t you accept who you were and who you are?” (notice Sensei looking at Yukino clenching her fist)

Basically, he doesn’t want to admit he has any problems and needs to change. However, from Yukino and Sensei’s perspective (in season 1) he clearly has a rotten outlook on life and well, that just can’t be. So Yukino (and Sensei to some degree) adopts a no-nonsense attitude towards him. Whenever he says “I’m fine being a groveling sorry excuse for a human being” Yukino steps in and immediately points out how pitiful and sad that is and that he should feel ashamed for even thinking that way. “I hate how you affirm people’s weakness”. She needs to first crack Hachiman’s shell, change his way of looking at life and show him that he has self-worth. (A pretty cool moment is where in S1E3 Hachiman is fully prepared to beg Hayama’s group to let his own group use the tennis court, but just before he gets the chance to humiliate himself, Yukino steps in to not only stop him, but also to prove how their group is not only equal to, but maybe even better than Hayama’s popular group).

So to answer your question: Why was Yukino openly hostile towards Hachiman the first time they meet?

It’s pretty much as you stated, Yukino and Sensei probably knew beforehand that he would put up resistance, so they had to hit him hard and fast. The way Hachiman is in season 1, if they would simply nudge him like: “hey, Hachiman, come on join the group, will ya?” he would have most certainly declined. (He even tries to weasel his way out of the club in S1E3, by saying he wants to join the tennis club, but Yukino immediately smites that suggestion down. Or in S1E6, where Hachiman says: “I have neither the will nor the drive, so can I leave?” Sensei simply responds by cracking her knuckles, implying: no, you have to stay here. Why? Because Hachiman NEEDS to be in the club.)

So, yes, at the beginning of the show, Yukino and Sensei are most likely convinced that there’s no other way to get Hachiman to reform, other than by forcing him, Yukino by being an Ice Queen Bitch and Sensei by physically abusing him (for laughs!). (As Yukino grows closer to Hachiman, you can sense a noticeable change in how she views Hachiman, for example: in S1E11: “Looking at you makes me think forcing yourself to change is stupid.” And in S1E12: “I don’t hate how you affirm people’s weakness”, however this and the Hayama tennis court example are just side notes that don’t support my argument, they just illustrate how I feel Yukino thinks of Hachiman)

supracseduch said:
How do we account for Yui being the club's first client? Is this some sort of freak coincidence, or did they somehow set things up such that Yui would need help baking cookies?


I don’t think it’s a coincidence at all, which was kind of the point I was trying to make. While I sadly don’t have anything that directly confirms this, because neither the anime or the LN show the conversation Sensei had with Yui where she told her to go to the club, I do have an estimate as to how it played out. For starters, at S1E1 Yui knows about Hachiman and the car accident. She doesn’t know that it was Yukino who was in the car and she doesn’t know that Sensei knows about the car accident. It took her a year to muster up the courage to talk to Hachiman. I think that somewhere in that time-span she either approached Sensei with her request (of baking cookies for someone she likes/wants to thank) or Sensei overheard her (at this point in time, it’s not important whether or not Sensei knew about the car accident). Sensei most likely said that she can’t help Yui with her request (because seriously who goes to a teacher to ask them to help bake cookies?). However, this changed once Hachiman joined the Service Club. After this happened, I think it was Sensei who approached Yui, reminded her of her request and said: “so there’s this club, they can help you with all of your problems, go pay them a visit.”

Or: after Yukino and Sensei’s plan was set in motion (Hachiman joining the Service Club), Sensei simply called Yui to her office and asked her if there was something she needed help with, then re-directed her to the Service Club. To be honest, it’s not that difficult to imagine a scenario where Sensei would use her status as a teacher to send Yui to the club.
May 16, 2015 5:52 PM
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snarlmane said:

I don’t think it’s a coincidence at all, which was kind of the point I was trying to make. While I sadly don’t have anything that directly confirms this, because neither the anime or the LN show the conversation Sensei had with Yui where she told her to go to the club, I do have an estimate as to how it played out. For starters, at S1E1 Yui knows about Hachiman and the car accident. She doesn’t know that it was Yukino who was in the car and she doesn’t know that Sensei knows about the car accident. It took her a year to muster up the courage to talk to Hachiman. I think that somewhere in that time-span she either approached Sensei with her request (of baking cookies for someone she likes/wants to thank) or Sensei overheard her (at this point in time, it’s not important whether or not Sensei knew about the car accident). Sensei most likely said that she can’t help Yui with her request (because seriously who goes to a teacher to ask them to help bake cookies?). However, this changed once Hachiman joined the Service Club. After this happened, I think it was Sensei who approached Yui, reminded her of her request and said: “so there’s this club, they can help you with all of your problems, go pay them a visit.”

Or: after Yukino and Sensei’s plan was set in motion (Hachiman joining the Service Club), Sensei simply called Yui to her office and asked her if there was something she needed help with, then re-directed her to the Service Club. To be honest, it’s not that difficult to imagine a scenario where Sensei would use her status as a teacher to send Yui to the club.


It is more likely that Yui approached Hiratsuka rather the other way round. Consider this, Hiratsuka-sensei is known being the school guidance counselor. Therefore, it is not that rare when students ask her for help regarding their troubles.

Interesting theory but incredibly unrealistic at the same time. Too many assumptions I am afraid. I will try to reply your Great Text Wall of China whenever I have the time.
worldeditor11May 16, 2015 6:12 PM
May 16, 2015 6:10 PM

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How hard can it be to plan a Christmas event.. wtf
May 16, 2015 6:28 PM

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Shiyon44 said:
How hard can it be to plan a Christmas event.. wtf

It's not that it's hard to plan, but the other school's president just wants to do EVERYTHING. It's touched upon more in the LN. The other president is actually also new and he just wants to listen to everyone's needs and try to make it all happen. Someone with experience can easily tell you that that's impossible since you can't make everyone happy and you need to cut your losses in order to progress but this guy doesn't get that. That's why he's trying to discuss every little thing and it's getting nowhere since there's too many things to do if you listen to everyone.
May 16, 2015 6:46 PM

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poptart-sama said:
You would be repulsed by someone who attacked your character and personality without any prior knowledge of you, don't lie.

thats the problem with your analysis, you're imprinting your own interpretation and beliefs onto the way Hachiman interprets Yukinon. The key here is "you", not hachiman or anybody else.

Also I was repulsed by someone being rude to me irl, but it sure didn't last that long once I atcually got to know the person two seconds later/after. With that in mind, It's really not that hard to imagine that someone might even find that type of behavior respectable, it really isn't. You're just trying to force your interpretation/belief way to hard.

I really do think they're being overly vague with Yukinon's intentions here, but denying their relationship at least on some level is just clouding your own judgement. (And you know, to an extent you're right, their relationship ISN'T as deep as it could be, that's what the majority of the fights in season 2 have been about, but that doesn't mean they aren't friends in some form or have "no reason to care about each other".)
May 16, 2015 6:55 PM

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AOTS
May 16, 2015 6:58 PM

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Shiyon44 said:
How hard can it be to plan a Christmas event.. wtf


Very easy. Divide the class the way they want. Assign what they'll bring or do and done. All is needed is follow-up

The problem is the commitment of the group.
#CHEXIT
May 16, 2015 7:15 PM

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Imeon said:
Shiyon44 said:
How hard can it be to plan a Christmas event.. wtf


Very easy. Divide the class the way they want. Assign what they'll bring or do and done. All is needed is follow-up

The problem is the commitment of the group.


Also keep in mind the fact that nothing is getting done is because the president wants everything to get done...pretty ironic.
May 16, 2015 7:29 PM

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snarlmane said:
It’s pretty much as you stated, Yukino and Sensei probably knew beforehand that he would put up resistance, so they had to hit him hard and fast. The way Hachiman is in season 1, if they would simply nudge him like: “hey, Hachiman, come on join the group, will ya?” he would have most certainly declined.


Yep, that's probably it. I found it a bit dubious that a teacher would even consider allowing verbal attacks as a means to help a student, but I suppose extreme circumstances warrant extreme measures.

snarlmane said:
It took her a year to muster up the courage to talk to Hachiman. I think that somewhere in that time-span she either approached Sensei with her request (of baking cookies for someone she likes/wants to thank) or Sensei overheard her (at this point in time, it’s not important whether or not Sensei knew about the car accident). Sensei most likely said that she can’t help Yui with her request (because seriously who goes to a teacher to ask them to help bake cookies?). However, this changed once Hachiman joined the Service Club. After this happened, I think it was Sensei who approached Yui, reminded her of her request and said: “so there’s this club, they can help you with all of your problems, go pay them a visit.”

Or: after Yukino and Sensei’s plan was set in motion (Hachiman joining the Service Club), Sensei simply called Yui to her office and asked her if there was something she needed help with, then re-directed her to the Service Club. To be honest, it’s not that difficult to imagine a scenario where Sensei would use her status as a teacher to send Yui to the club.


This is a bit shaky, but nonetheless plausible. It's slightly different from how I imagined it though. My own view (which I also find quite shaky) was that some time during her first year in high school, Yui consulted the guidance counselor, Shizuka-sensei, regarding the unbearable amount of guilt she felt towards someone who helped her and got injured as a result. That someone was Hikky, but she didn't tell Sensei who it was. (Note that if Yui actually named the person, Shizuka would have arranged for a confrontation almost immediately.) Sensei must have suggested something like "Just approach them, talk to them, and give them a small token of gratitude, like a pack of cookies". However, Yui failed to do what she suggested.

A year later, Sensei figured out that the one Yui wanted to thank was Hikky. She then seized the perfect opportunity and told Yui to go to the Service Club, seeing that she doesn't have a club yet. She also vaguely described the club to be one that "grants wishes/requests" so she can ask them for help if she needs any. Alternatively, Shizuka reminded Yui of her previous consultation and asked her if she still needs help regarding that. She says she still hasn't learned how to bake, so sensei told her to go ask the Service Club for help, and she can join the club afterwards.

Either way, this explains Yui's surprise later on when Yukino told her that she wasn't actually a member of the club: Yui thought Shizuka-sensei already made her an official member. Moreover, this answers the question of why she needed cookies to begin with, since they never told us why.

I didn't have any concrete idea as to how Shizuka found out that Hikky was the one Yui wanted to thank, but it all makes sense if we assume that it was because Yukino told her about the accident during their "planning phase". From Yukino's account of the incident, it would have been very easy for sensei to figure out.

Further points worth addressing:
Is Haruno actually in on Yukino and Sensei's plan? It didn't seem like she recognized Hachiman by face or by name when they first met. Also, she was surprised that Yukino didn't tell Hikigaya that it was their family's car that was involved in the accident. Also, her being not in on the plan would explain why she showed up to pick up Yukino from the summer camp without regard to the possibility that Yui and Hachiman might recognize their car. So the more likely chain of events would be:
-Haruno first meets Hikigaya at the mall with Yukino in S1E6. She teases the two of them as though they're a couple.
-Yukino later that day tells Haruno that Hikigaya was the victim of the accident that left marks on their car, but she didn't tell her about their plans for him. That's why Haruno didn't know that they were supposed to keep the car a secret from him.
-Thus, she "shamelessly" shows up to pick up Yukino from summer camp in S1E8.
-Thus, she later blurts out "No need to stare. There aren't any marks where you can see them any more," when Hachiman was closely eying their car in S1E9.

A minor problem arises from this though: How do we explain what Hayama said to Hachiman during summer camp? "Is that how you see the world? I can see why she's concerned about you." How does Hayama know that she (Yukino) is concerned about Hachiman? Well, we learned in S2E3 that Hayama and Haruno can contact each other via cellphone so it must have been Haruno who told him, right? But for what reason?

The only answer I can come up with is that Hayama has feelings for Yukino ("Y"), and Haruno is aware of this. So when Haruno learned who Hikigaya was, she casually informs Hayama that he has competition. She might not be in on the plan for Hikigaya, but she could probably tell that how Yukino sees Hikigaya from their encounter at the mall.
supracseduchMay 16, 2015 8:42 PM
May 16, 2015 7:40 PM

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EmphaticPikachu said:
poptart-sama said:
You would be repulsed by someone who attacked your character and personality without any prior knowledge of you, don't lie.

thats the problem with your analysis, you're imprinting your own interpretation and beliefs onto the way Hachiman interprets Yukinon. The key here is "you", not hachiman or anybody else.

Also I was repulsed by someone being rude to me irl, but it sure didn't last that long once I atcually got to know the person two seconds later/after. With that in mind, It's really not that hard to imagine that someone might even find that type of behavior respectable, it really isn't. You're just trying to force your interpretation/belief way to hard.

I really do think they're being overly vague with Yukinon's intentions here, but denying their relationship at least on some level is just clouding your own judgement. (And you know, to an extent you're right, their relationship ISN'T as deep as it could be, that's what the majority of the fights in season 2 have been about, but that doesn't mean they aren't friends in some form or have "no reason to care about each other".)


In that time that you got to know that person, did they continue to belittle you and insult your presence? Because that's absolutely what happened to Hachiman. He had to sit through Yukino's "analysis" of his personality and past, based on absolutely no prior knowledge of him, literally just making it up as she goes along. "But she was just being honest, and she was right about him.", is an answer I always receive, as if honesty HAS to be toxic, and that by being right you can't fault someone's attitude. And you seem to think that Episode 1 is just an isolated instance of her demeanor. It is not, it's the first of many. And people are supposed to think the she's "cool"? I'll say it as many times as need be, none of the characters act like humans when Yukino interacts with them.
May 16, 2015 7:49 PM

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poptart-sama said:
EmphaticPikachu said:

thats the problem with your analysis, you're imprinting your own interpretation and beliefs onto the way Hachiman interprets Yukinon. The key here is "you", not hachiman or anybody else.

Also I was repulsed by someone being rude to me irl, but it sure didn't last that long once I atcually got to know the person two seconds later/after. With that in mind, It's really not that hard to imagine that someone might even find that type of behavior respectable, it really isn't. You're just trying to force your interpretation/belief way to hard.

I really do think they're being overly vague with Yukinon's intentions here, but denying their relationship at least on some level is just clouding your own judgement. (And you know, to an extent you're right, their relationship ISN'T as deep as it could be, that's what the majority of the fights in season 2 have been about, but that doesn't mean they aren't friends in some form or have "no reason to care about each other".)


In that time that you got to know that person, did they continue to belittle you and insult your presence? Because that's absolutely what happened to Hachiman. He had to sit through Yukino's "analysis" of his personality and past, based on absolutely no prior knowledge of him, literally just making it up as she goes along. "But she was just being honest, and she was right about him.", is an answer I always receive, as if honesty HAS to be toxic, and that by being right you can't fault someone's attitude. And you seem to think that Episode one is just an isolated instance of her demeanor. It is not, it's the first of many. And people are supposed to think the she's "cool"? I'll say it as many times as need be, none of the characters act like humans when Yukino interacts with them.

the problem is that she isn't always unnecessarily harsh tho, yeah, she acts like it, or tends to sound harsh, but the lines aren't always meant to be "harsh".They're meant to be friendly. I know you pretty much ignored them (I'm not entirely sure why but whatever), but there were scenes mentioned beforehand where she was being respectful, and nice, even if her words sound "mean". You said you wanted a "reason", I guess, and the reason was that they respect each others outlook and thoughts on the world, along with slowly getting to know each other through just outright working with one another on the jobs they receive.

And no, I suppose that he did not continue to "outright insult me and my presense constantly"

but neither did yukinon, or at least in a way that was supposed to be interpreted as mean.

And he still spoke his mind whenever he wanted to btw.
May 16, 2015 9:53 PM

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Farabeuf said:
I respect that you do not like this show and think it's garbage.. What I do not understand, is why if you feel so strongly (and have been for quite some episodes if I recall previous discussion threads) about it you just don't drop it? Drop it, give it a very low score and stop torturing yourself. What's this pathological need to keep on watching and coming in and telling people what they're enjoying is bad?

I never said it was garbage.

In fact for the most part I LIKED season 1....I gave it a 7/10 and definitely thought it had it's great moments.

So far this season has been pretty disappointing to me, but I don't think it's all garbage.

5/10 is what I'd give it so far...

And I'm not torturing myself....clearly the reason I keep watching is because I want to see what happens next, I want to see some type of resolution.
May 16, 2015 10:12 PM

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I didn't really enjoy the first 5 episodes but the last 2 were actually a little enjoyable and pretty much because of Hachiman's little sister. That aside, it finally is starting to feel less dull and boring to me than the first opening episodes of the season. I think I'm starting to get a sense of this Hachiman monologue approach the series has taken which in itself is quite entertaining to watch but it doesn't change the fact that this show is pretty much a joyride for the light novel readers and which is also why every single kid in here overdosed with it.
May 17, 2015 12:29 AM
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JustALEX said:
Farabeuf said:
I respect that you do not like this show and think it's garbage.. What I do not understand, is why if you feel so strongly (and have been for quite some episodes if I recall previous discussion threads) about it you just don't drop it? Drop it, give it a very low score and stop torturing yourself. What's this pathological need to keep on watching and coming in and telling people what they're enjoying is bad?

I never said it was garbage.

In fact for the most part I LIKED season 1....I gave it a 7/10 and definitely thought it had it's great moments.

So far this season has been pretty disappointing to me, but I don't think it's all garbage.

5/10 is what I'd give it so far...

And I'm not torturing myself....clearly the reason I keep watching is because I want to see what happens next, I want to see some type of resolution.


Fair enough. I suppose that the next couple of episodes will provide some relief for you in that sense.
"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii

There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov

May 17, 2015 2:06 AM
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JustALEX said:
Farabeuf said:
I respect that you do not like this show and think it's garbage.. What I do not understand, is why if you feel so strongly (and have been for quite some episodes if I recall previous discussion threads) about it you just don't drop it? Drop it, give it a very low score and stop torturing yourself. What's this pathological need to keep on watching and coming in and telling people what they're enjoying is bad?

I never said it was garbage.

In fact for the most part I LIKED season 1....I gave it a 7/10 and definitely thought it had it's great moments.

So far this season has been pretty disappointing to me, but I don't think it's all garbage.

5/10 is what I'd give it so far...

And I'm not torturing myself....clearly the reason I keep watching is because I want to see what happens next, I want to see some type of resolution.


I can respect that just because i like the show and you doesn't mean i have to bash you for it. We just have different views, that makes the world interesting. Like you say Mikan is best imouto even though Komachi is x100 better but you see that would just be an endless internet battle of us wasting our time cause neither us would budge. That also goes for the rest of the people who don't like it, IDAGF I will just talk to the people who do. Just like Yukino i won't challenge ur beliefs or ideals anymore your free to go.

But seriously ALEX, Komachi is best imouto get ur mind out of the gutter.
May 17, 2015 2:14 AM
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Best episode so far, loved the conversation between 8man and Yukino at the end.

But, fuck those clueless council people.
May 17, 2015 4:54 AM

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I have no idea what's going on.

But the show will go on.
"There's no shame in falling down... true shame is to not stand up again!"

"Aah? Of course I won't miss!"

"My blood tastes like Iron."

"Run through the tape in life! Never give up! Run through the tape!"
May 17, 2015 6:50 AM

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EmphaticPikachu said:

the problem is that she isn't always unnecessarily harsh tho, yeah, she acts like it, or tends to sound harsh, but the lines aren't always meant to be "harsh".They're meant to be friendly. I know you pretty much ignored them (I'm not entirely sure why but whatever), but there were scenes mentioned beforehand where she was being respectful, and nice, even if her words sound "mean". You said you wanted a "reason", I guess, and the reason was that they respect each others outlook and thoughts on the world, along with slowly getting to know each other through just outright working with one another on the jobs they receive.

And no, I suppose that he did not continue to "outright insult me and my presense constantly"

but neither did yukinon, or at least in a way that was supposed to be interpreted as mean.

And he still spoke his mind whenever he wanted to btw.


Then I really don't know what else to tell you. I can't comprehend why people are constantly trying to create excuses for her behavior, even now that you're outright saying that her downtalk to Hachiman is "friendly". If these things were the case, then you'd think that the writers would try to actually bring this to the forefront of her character, as opposed to having the viewers grasping at straws to characterize her themselves.
May 17, 2015 6:55 AM

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poptart-sama said:
EmphaticPikachu said:

thats the problem with your analysis, you're imprinting your own interpretation and beliefs onto the way Hachiman interprets Yukinon. The key here is "you", not hachiman or anybody else.

Also I was repulsed by someone being rude to me irl, but it sure didn't last that long once I atcually got to know the person two seconds later/after. With that in mind, It's really not that hard to imagine that someone might even find that type of behavior respectable, it really isn't. You're just trying to force your interpretation/belief way to hard.

I really do think they're being overly vague with Yukinon's intentions here, but denying their relationship at least on some level is just clouding your own judgement. (And you know, to an extent you're right, their relationship ISN'T as deep as it could be, that's what the majority of the fights in season 2 have been about, but that doesn't mean they aren't friends in some form or have "no reason to care about each other".)


In that time that you got to know that person, did they continue to belittle you and insult your presence? Because that's absolutely what happened to Hachiman. He had to sit through Yukino's "analysis" of his personality and past, based on absolutely no prior knowledge of him, literally just making it up as she goes along. "But she was just being honest, and she was right about him.", is an answer I always receive, as if honesty HAS to be toxic, and that by being right you can't fault someone's attitude. And you seem to think that Episode 1 is just an isolated instance of her demeanor. It is not, it's the first of many. And people are supposed to think the she's "cool"? I'll say it as many times as need be, none of the characters act like humans when Yukino interacts with them.
Here's the thing. Hachiman respects and admires Yukino precisely because of her acrimony. Rather than how 'true' her conclusions are factually, he's endeared by her lack of hesitation in voicing them. That was also the reason he was so comfortable with her -- if you remember the nice girls monologue -- Yukino is the person most diametrically opposed to the kind of niceness he describes there. The point is not that her conclusions are true -- they are obviously made based on superficial impressions (although a lot of it also happens to be true) -- what matters here is that she doesn't mince her words or keep these superficial impressions to herself and act indifferent. She openly calls out on Hachiman and that gives him a chance to make a conversation where he doesn't have to consider reading between the lines. Think about the 'can't we just be friends?' She's someone he instantly labels he can interact freely without having to read between the lines and see if they're indirectly implying his presence isn't wanted or that he's creepy since she's the sort of person that will rub it in your regardless.

Now, what I have described above is simply the trigger for why 8man is initially more comfortable with Yukino than what is to be expected of a loner. You are choosing to entirely dismiss instances of their budding camaraderie, which basically most of season 1, when you say their relationship was merely hateful exchanges and nothing else.

To start of with, you talk as if the possibility of playful banter is as likely as finding a penguin in the Sahara. If you watched the show, you should know that by eleventh episode, their banter had progressed to outright flirting that it made people who were listening in on them awkward. Let's not forget that as soon as the 3rd episode, Yukino had openly said she trusts Hachiman.

The core of Yukino as a character is her kindness; she wants to help, but her standards are too high, her views too polarised, for her to be effective about it. If she were being rude and insulting to Hachiman only, then he would have reason to dislike her. But her condescension and insistence on 'helping lowly lambs' is more of a default social procedure than pointed hate. In fact, there were many instances of her caring about his opinions throughout the first season. Their relationship growing closer is best established in the camping arc, when consoled him (in her own way) after the Rumi solution.

This is literally the problem I have with Yukino's character. It's the one thing I've been talking about this whole time. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Because her harsh words "came from the heart", that somehow gives her a free pass?

Because she helped someone bake cookies, because she played tennis against the cool kids, because she fetched a first aid kit for someone who was injured, the impression I'm getting from you is that this somehow nullifies all of her other actions. The superfluous nature of her "good deeds" just shows how lazily the writers try to excuse her poor behavior. Go ahead and insults me all you want, I don't really expect you to view this from any other perspective.
This is where you are being obstinate. You want to dismiss the softer, caring aspect to her character simply because she doesn't honey layer her words. She helps people, and goes out of her way for that when she has absolutely no obligation for such. Of course, I have no misgivings about this being the product of pure and unadulterated kindness, she is feeding her own ego and trying to feel good, indulging in a self aggrandizing superiority when she does this, but that doesn't annul her acts themselves.

The way she is kinder despite her harsh words according to Yui is (I feel this is a redundant observation, this was obvious from the context itself, you are just ignoring what you want) because Yukino wants the people she helps to be better. She doesn't want them to be fed with lies and soothed about their predicament - 'those who don't work hard have no right to be envious of those with talent' - she hopes for the best for those she helps and not just some tacked on farce to leave them with immediate but ultimately empty resolution. This is why Yui is so impressed by Yukino -- she harshly and rudely points out that Yui's baking is bad and she has no choice but to work harder if she wants to get better. This does her image bad -- as it has done for you -- but it was still with the best interests for Yui in mind. Her concern is basically not with how she comes across, whether she appears 'likeable'. She wants the person she helps to really be helped.

Later, after continued interaction with 8man, some of her stubborn perfectionism wears off, when she begins to accept weakness as something that isn't always bad. This is especially evident in Sagami's case -- when she worked herself sick like Naoki-Saten pointed out, because she wanted to fulfil Sagami's request to carry out a successful festival. There was no aspect of self improvement there, but she works earnestly despite the hypocrisy of a recipient.

sovyat said:
which is also why every single kid in here overdosed with it.
That fact that you have to take to calling forum users 'kids' and tell them their taste is shit means you have no real argument against the show, at least none valid. You must feel really good about yourself, huh, being the only sensible adult and purveyor of true wisdom to all the kids in the forum?
Static-Of-65 said:
As someone who read the novel (and stopped) till mid volume 10, there was literally nothing that would explain or give even sightliest idea why she (Yukino) acted the ways she does.
Of course, you can make lengthy posts, speculation, but there's no substance or basis for any of it that could back it up.
All in all, show's really simple.
There's no award winning writing on novels and certainly show isn't anything outstanding or unique either.
This isn't a bad argument (because you don't have one in the first place), but since you bring up great novels, you should understand that 'greatness' doesn't always mean you have to have every nook and cranny of the character motivations explored or laid out with impeccable clarity. In fact, I might even say that great works more often than not convey great meaning and implications with abstract narratives. Such works challenge the reader/viewer, they allow each of them to interpret and assign individual meaning to the work than bringing a standardized mass consumer sales good to them under the guise of creative fiction. What happens otherwise is the promotion and upstanding of mediocrity, as Nietzsche remarks. I'm not insisting that this is the only, or even objective, definition of what constitutes a great work, but this is still a view that literary giants of all different times (the likes of Nabokov, Kafka, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky or Oscar Wilde) have at some point agreed on. "Brevity is the soul of wit" or so the saying goes.

If such little, trivial things here can spawn the discussion it does, then Oregairu must be doing something right. There is no comparing with great works you say and it's not like there's anything terribly disagreeable about that, but why? Is it because it hasn't aged? There is no rule exempting anime or romantic comedies from being considered great. If I can receive some argument as to why Oregairu is so simple in your opinion, other than the 'because it is' that you have provided right now, then your thoughts may become worthwhile. Right now, they're not entirely disagreeable, they just are.

poptart-sama said:


Then I really don't know what else to tell you. I can't comprehend why people are constantly trying to create excuses for her behavior, even now that you're outright saying that her downtalk to Hachiman is "friendly". If these things were the case, then you'd think that the writers would try to actually bring this to the forefront of her character, as opposed to having the viewers grasping at straws to characterize her themselves.
It's obvious who here is grasping at straws. Her characterization is well, but subtly done, and obvious to people who are not averse or prejudiced to a positive interpretation. That you cannot see this characterization doesn't mean it doesn't exist, especially when it is obvious to many other viewers. Maybe you would see it too, if you put aside your stereotypes about 'harsh people always bad, harsh people no good' and actually watch the show with an open mind.

Almost every episode, we see that their verbal spats gradually become less about insults and more a competition of word play. You talk about downtalk to 8man, but putting himself down is what 8man is good at. If Yukino is a sadist in her social interactions, 8man would be a masochist. And then again, it's not like he's that much a poor shy kid himself: he called Yui a 'bitch' to her face without any deep reason, he generalize nice girls, etc etc. Your definition of casual hate then more applies to Hachiman than Yukino.
TerapinMay 17, 2015 7:17 AM
May 17, 2015 8:17 AM

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Oct 2010
56
Haruno's motives are pretty obvious to me: She doesn't want yukino to end up like her or their mother, this show is about weaknesses and complexes, so it's very likely haruno took the role of being the "perfect daughter of the yukinoshita family" in order to prevent that role being imposed on yukino as she would become a substiotute at best with way less burden of being perfect.

On the especulation side probably Huruno and their mother are both suffering from depression, probably the mother's depression is higher and maybe even addicted to anti-depressant medication which would explain why the father gave an apartment for yukino to live by herself, he probably feared that both daughters would end up like her and thus wanted to save at least one. After all, yukino's mother was raised during a time in which the vision of the perfect woman and the conpet of family honor and glory was still very high.
"Boredom is like poison."

May 17, 2015 8:18 AM

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Feb 2015
161
supracseduch said:
Is Haruno actually in on Yukino and Sensei's plan?

Yes. That's why she went with that car to pick up Yukino at the [Chiba] station. ("oops, guess cat's out of the bag, teehee"). She's not the kind of person to do things accidentally. She knew that Hachiman would be there, and she wanted Hachiman to learn that it was Yukino's car that hit him. The reason? The only thing I can think of is so that Yukino would stop hiding this fact from Hachiman, and start talking to him about the accident, otherwise I don't know, because Haruno's motivations still remain unclear.
snarlmane said that Haruno could have been in the car at the time of the accident, but that can't be, because she didn't recognize his face when they first met, but she did recognize the name. The anime gives a less subtle clue of this, but in the novel it's quite obvious.

The time when she became aware of the plan could vary. It could be before she met Hachiman, but it could also be after. Yukino probably told her once Haruno got curious as to why she was acquaintances with the guy of the accident.

But, of course this is all conjecture. For all we know, Wataru might have forgotten about it, and decides to troll us in the end by not saying anything about it.
May 17, 2015 8:26 AM

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Oct 2010
56
As for the club being created solely by hachiman I doubt that. The teacher already said it is for the sake of correcting all of the members which hachiman compared to a sanatorium. Th teacher probably "tricked" yukino to think that the club was for his sake alone when in fact it was for the sake of the 3 of them.

Yui's problem: The fear of being denied by others and desperately triyng to be included in the groups.
Yukino's problem: Fear of being unable to live up to the expectations she has of herself and in the past she based her ideal on her sister haruno.
Hachiman: Seeing himself as worthless and good things cannot happen to him.

Moreover, I don't think Hachiman is sacrificing himself(at least not with hayato's group) you see to sacrifice oneself one must think they are doing for the sake of something worthier or greater than themselves which is not the case for hachiman. What he does is pure and simple suicide, social suicide not for the sake of others but using others as reasons/excuses for commiting suicide and reconfirmming his vision that he is worthless.
"Boredom is like poison."

May 17, 2015 8:44 AM

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Jan 2013
650
Terapin said:


+1 for the entire post
May 17, 2015 8:51 AM

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Apr 2015
726
But then again, 8man would be completely insane if he really is doing all those favors and he gets --absolutely-- nothing in return. I need to highlight that absolutely part. Therefore there must be something that he benefits from this (and isn't yet shown to us). Even loners have pride. I don't think 8man is "worthless" like you're saying. On the contrary, his thinking and methods are far, far above from your normal HS student.

But then what? here's my theory (don't quote me on this)

1. He wanted to try his own way of doing things. Make all his clients his experimental rats or something. Well there's also the enjoyment of drama unfolding right before his eyes and his influence in it.

2. He wanted to see just how pathetic humans can truly become. that relationships require sacrifice and yet nobody is willing to be that lone sheep in the lion's den. You could also say he wanted to prove himself wrong and place what little faith there is in humanity.

3. There will always be that one bad apple. Take good note of this: That one bad apple (handy prez, Orimito) will spoil the rest of the fruits (people in the council) inside the basket (combined school council).
>I had no brain when I was 12
>Then everyone must had no brain when they were 12
>I experimented 100 samples and proved that they had no brain when they were 12
>Therefore children cannot consent

This is what science has done to humanity.
May 17, 2015 8:57 AM

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Oct 2011
2479
People need to understand that writing large essays on a discussion forum isn't exactly the right way to go. Keep your point short, sweet and to the point.

No in going to read your over analyzed reason why Yukino isn't a bitch and why ideals of Hachiman is incorrect.
May 17, 2015 9:10 AM
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Oct 2012
52
silvermagus said:
JusticeSoulTuna said:
Ok, serious rant time.

All that's happened leads me to a conclusion I reached a long time ago. And before I start, I should mention that no I'm not a blind Yuki hater and I fully understand the character, so please hold your keyboard rage. It's because I get this character that I feel there's one thing she's yet to do: make the effort.

So far, Hachiman has been falling over himself to try to patch things up or at least make peace with her since the incident in episode 2. And yet, all of it has seemingly made things worse. Just to end up with her saying those harsh but somewhat true words in episode 7. But to be honest, it's not all that fair. Yui was the first to bounce back and realize that 8man's actions are selfless and painful, and she cares enough about him to understand that. Hayama, Totsuka, Komachi and the rest of the auxiliary cast notice this too, and are trying to help him. So exactly why is the 'genius' that everyone adores too thick or stubborn to want to do so too?

Lately, it's been all about how she feels. What the character Yuki, as she's portrayed, seems to be doing is viewing 8man's actions solely by how they affect her. At first, I thought it was that she cared for him and was worried about his self-deprecating ways, but her actions leading up to ep 7 suggest otherwise. If she's so smart, why can't she see that he's doing all this for her as well as the club? And yet she turns around and acts like he's making their relationship superficial by turning up to the club. Granted, what she said wasn't out of malice or hatred, but out of sadness for how their interactions have become. But that's why it's so selfish. 8man has been through so much crap in his life, and has to deal with people from his past showing up too. In season one, he was disappointed by both Yui and Yuki yet still went out of his way to help them.

But just because he makes a few fumbles, suddenly she's sad that he's not making her feel good about being near him? Not cool. Everyone else is worried about 8man's actions leading to him ruining himself, and as his friends it makes them sad. They want to help him, but they also want him to open up to them. Hence, a reciprocal interaction. But what has Yuki done, other than get mad/sad each time he does something she disagrees with. If she cares so much about the special relationship they had, why hasn't she done anything to fix it other than keep her distance and be mad about it?

Here's the thing: I know there's a resolution coming. People on My Anime List forums are hinting at a major 'feels' moment in the next episode. But from how this is set up, it's super one sided. This whole time it's been 8man trying to patch things up with Yuki, whilst any interaction with her since has been nothing but scorn and sad remarks. How is that fair? When is she going to make the effort to try to appreciate his circumstance? Yuki, as she's written, is the only character pushing him away when he's been trying so hard to change. He's been constantly evaluating his recent choices and opening up to others and asking for help. Note, 8man is a character by design who has fallen into one bad circumstance to another and has become a loner. He's unable to see his self-worth, open up to anyone or appreciate anyone's feelings.

In spite of this, characters like Yui know that's how he is and it won't change anytime soon, but she still cares for him and is happy to see him trying. Think of all the sweet moments they shared since episode 2. When Yui's sad, it's because she sees the club's relationship deteriorating. Yet all of Yuki's problems thus far have been me me me. Not once have you seen her make the effort to talk to 8man and patch up the rift between them or even vaguely appreciate why he's in the mess he's in currently. Any doubt I had before about her feeling sad cause of 8man's situation were dispelled by her clearly selfish words in ep 7, which put the full onus on him to open up and tell her sorry, I messed up, I need your help etc. And that's just not fair. When the heck is she going to take the time to bend over backwards for him? That's all I want personally. If she cares about him as much as people say she does, when in god's name is she going to show it?


+1
+2
May 17, 2015 9:42 AM

Offline
Jul 2014
69
Gov said:
People need to understand that writing large essays on a discussion forum isn't exactly the right way to go. Keep your point short, sweet and to the point.

No in going to read your over analyzed reason why Yukino isn't a bitch and why ideals of Hachiman is incorrect.
The amount of discussion here say's 'You're wrong!'
May 17, 2015 9:49 AM

Offline
Apr 2015
1985
Terapin said:
Gov said:
People need to understand that writing large essays on a discussion forum isn't exactly the right way to go. Keep your point short, sweet and to the point.

No in going to read your over analyzed reason why Yukino isn't a bitch and why ideals of Hachiman is incorrect.
The amount of discussion here say's 'You're wrong!'


I actually clicked all the tags for just that answer....
May 17, 2015 10:04 AM
Offline
May 2015
1
Lonewolf13 said:
As for the club being created solely by hachiman I doubt that. The teacher already said it is for the sake of correcting all of the members which hachiman compared to a sanatorium. Th teacher probably "tricked" yukino to think that the club was for his sake alone when in fact it was for the sake of the 3 of them.

Yui's problem: The fear of being denied by others and desperately trying to be included in the groups.
Yukino's problem: Fear of being unable to live up to the expectations she has of herself and in the past she based her ideal on her sister haruno.
Hachiman: Seeing himself as worthless and good things cannot happen to him.

Moreover, I don't think Hachiman is sacrificing himself(at least not with hayato's group) you see to sacrifice oneself one must think they are doing for the sake of something worthier or greater than themselves which is not the case for hachiman. What he does is pure and simple suicide, social suicide not for the sake of others but using others as reasons/excuses for commiting suicide and reconfirmming his vision that he is worthless.


Normally just lurk but this post was so on point and short that a breh had to sign up and tack on that smooth +1. My sentiments pretty much on the Service Club.

All 3 of them have issues they gotta get help for, but nobody really speaks on that(either because they don't realize it or might just be too scared). If Yui really was helped in full by the Service Club, I don't think Hiratsuka would've pressed Yukino and Hachiman to go get her to join the club again.

Plus, didn't Hiratsuka say something about Hachiman not being able to help someone he really wants to help if he keeps solving problems the way he does now? She probably realizes that if(once) Hachiman changes(or at least asks for the ever so alluded help), he'll likely be a catalyst for Yukino and/or Yui, or at least that's what she's betting on.
May 17, 2015 10:20 AM

Offline
Jan 2013
650
Gov said:
People need to understand that writing large essays on a discussion forum isn't exactly the right way to go. Keep your point short, sweet and to the point.

No in going to read your over analyzed reason why Yukino isn't a bitch and why ideals of Hachiman is incorrect.


Someone who's not contributing to the discussion at all is in no position to criticize those who do.

If you don't want to read long posts, just don't. Nobody's forcing you.
Also:

Terapin said:
The amount of discussion here say's 'You're wrong!'
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