Subtitled/Subbed or English Dubbed anime (aka Subs vs. Dubs v2)

Is that necessarily a good thing? If something is bad, we should know about it. I sure as hell don't want to listen to Japanese voice actors doing an English Engrish dub (see Kirei Kotomine in Fate/Zero). In any case, with subs, since we can't judge the voices properly, we have to instead judge the quality of the translation done by the subber.

Ghostony said:
Yeah.. if the anime has a western atmosphere..like DBZ ..then I'd prefer dub over sub.. but then again.. I hate DBZ

Now that I think of it.. FLCL was tolerable

Ghostony said:
Yeah.. if the anime has a western atmosphere..like DBZ ..then I'd prefer dub over sub.. but then again.. I hate DBZ

Now that I think of it.. FLCL was tolerable

IntroverTurtle said:
How does DBZ have a western atmosphere? Maybe because you watched it dubbed that you think it has one.

Ghostony said:

The animation-style, the personalities, the musclemen

Ghostony said:

The animation-style, the personalities, the musclemen

DateYutaka said:

nope dragonball if more east asain in roots than any thing its based on seiyuki [ the old Chinese novel ]
monkey name goku or wukong if you have watched the chinese[ mando] dub
ox king
the pig with moneky king

so to say dragonball is wstern than estren is cutally wrong

AlphaFTW said:
Dubbed is always going to be inferior for me.Original japanese voices is how the characters should sound and english dub just seems fake to me.

9tailjeza said:
Lol. As if this doesn't end up in hate. It's not like i hate dubs, maybe merely that i've watched so much anime in japanese that hearing it in english just sounds kind of unnatural. At first i chose japanese cause i can try and learn some jap and i always watch with subs no matter what language it's in anyway.
Most japanese seiyuus are amazing which is why you wanna hear it in jap, although i kinda dislike most of the supporting cast in fairy tail and i've put K on hold cause the mc sounds like a pussy.
On the other hand, i raged at first about ff xiii not having japanese voicework, but then the english dubbing is actually terrific.
Generally, i have absolutely no reason to go from sub back to dub though

Kuraudo_ said:
I prefer the original, so subs for me.

Ahri said:



Love when people say this. This statement does not make sense. Why? Because.... Anime is not aired with subs. What?! Crazy right?! Contrary to popular belief... Subs aren't "original" as people think.

tsudecimo said:
When people say sub is better they are talking about the original japanese audio not the quality of the translated subs sigh...

Leonard93 said:
In my opinion is sub usually (not always), better than dubs.
Why?

Cause its the original voices made by the same studio as the producer of the acutal animations, and it feels less like an anime to me if i hear english voices.

Hearing japanese voices (and enjoying it), is part of watching anime, just like how the artstyle is different from western cartoons.
Its a part of anime that shouldnt be altered.

Ahri said:
-snip-

Ahri said:
I know what they meant. I'm just stating the fact that if they want to enjoy it in it's "original" form TRULY and not under a false pretense, then they should watch it raw. Otherwise steer clear of comments like that.

apatch3 said:
Arguably it's elitist to take something from somebody else's culture and claim that your own local doctored version of it is better.

gamer2710 said:
That can apply to subs too. Although, if one person does it and another person likes it, you can't really rag on the person who likes it for being an elitist.

apatch3 said:
That being said we feel dubs are too big of a compromise - mainly due to the large amount of translation loss that comes with them. When reading subs - which are also "translations" you are still exposed to the source material - which lessens if not eliminates any losses.

Ahri said:



Love when people say this. This statement does not make sense. Why? Because.... Anime is not aired with subs. What?! Crazy right?! Contrary to popular belief... Subs aren't "original" as people think.

Ahri said:

I've seen more subbed anime than dubbed at this point (my list does NOT show how many series I've really watched. That's just a portion. Too lazy to update it) and I have YET to say "Huh.... Dub sounds so unnatural" or "Anime should be Japanese only, cultural blah blah, watch anime in it's pure original state hurr durr".

gamer2710 said:
The problem I have with this is that people think that dubs have to stick as close to the original as possible to be good. While it is true that dubs are inherently "different" than the original, they still follow the same basic story and still have the same character interactions (***Except 4kids***), but do you really expect English to portray the same subtleties as Japanese?

In short, I don't think translation loss is a bad thing when it comes to entertainment. It's when a show becomes something completely different (Hello, 4kids!) that I start having problems.

gamer2710 said:
The problem I have with this is that people think that dubs have to stick as close to the original as possible to be good. While it is true that dubs are inherently "different" than the original, they still follow the same basic story and still have the same character interactions (***Except 4kids***), but do you really expect English to portray the same subtleties as Japanese?

In short, I don't think translation loss is a bad thing when it comes to entertainment. It's when a show becomes something completely different (Hello, 4kids!) that I start having problems.

IntroverTurtle said:
Apatch3 never said that they have to stick close to the original to be good. He was just saying that sub watchers prefer their anime to be the closest that they can to the original, nothing about quality.

Ghostony said:
I don't think I'm an elitist nor a weeaboo for preferring the original japanese voices over remade english voices.. the va's have a very very obvious difference in their accents, so if I watch japanese first and then watch english.. I can't help but feel the english is fake.

It's same the deal when it comes to cartoons, I'l watch it in english first and then if I ever watch it in spanish or french I get irritated by the way out of place accents.

Ghostony said:
What I don't understand is why people get angry at me for finding japanese accents more soothing and beautiful than american accents

ahe said:
What are you even talking about? The subs do not alter the anime in any way. It is still the original, but with additional subtitles that help foreigners understand what is being said. On the other hand dubs change the entire voice cast. It shouldn't be hard to understand what is closest to the original. Of course watching raws would be preferable, but subs are the next best thing.

Funny how you don't even try to argue against any of this. When a show is produced with Japanese voices, it should be obvious that that was how the creators of the show, intended it to be watched. It must feel bad to know that there are no arguments for why you should watch dubs, when subtitles are available. The only things I ever see from people who watch dubs are:

1. "Weeaboo!11!!11!!!"
2. "Can't watch and read at the same time"
3. "Bebop creator said the dub was better" (never even seen someone post a credible source)

None of which are actual arguments. Not really surprising since there doesn't exist any. Personally I find that dubbing over other people's work is just insulting and completely unnecessary. However it would be perfectly fine if a new adaptation was made of the source material, and it was in another language.

IntroverTurtle said:
there are plenty of other pros to subs, the time it takes to get an anime(up to an hour after it airs) compared to getting it dubbed(can be years), the preservation of the original culture, references, music, dialects and sayings that would be lost in translation., the amount of anime you can watch(since most anime never get dubbed), etc .

apatch3 said:
I don't treat anime as mere entertainment I treat it as an art form - the same way one would look at cinema or literature, so to me TL is an unforgivable sin against the source. Also..I mean some things are just so culturally out there that to dub them would be nightmare - I have nightmares about the Lucky Star dub for instance where everybody refers to each other as "san" and "chan" in English.

Zalis said:
The speed difference is irrelevant if you're looking at titles that already exist in both languages. And why are you treating music as something that will inevitably be changed in dubs? OP/ED redubs are fairly rare, and changes to actual background music are even rarer. Unless you're saying that the 4Kids/mass broadcast dubbing model is still as common today as it was in the late 90s?

Forgetfulness said:
Your argument is too biased. I could say:
"If the creators intended for their shows to be watched in English, why don't they produce it in English originally?"
And before you say something like "There are official English dubs", well there are also official English subs.

I also loled at "dubs certainly are closest to the original experience".
Yes, subs change sometimes but they are FAR more likely to be "original" than dubs.
Here's an example from Steins;Gate

Original: Hello mister, I am mad scientist. It's so COOL! Son of a bitch
Subs: Hello mister, I am mad scientist. It's so COOL! Sonovobitch
Dubs: Ima bust out some questions yo, so holla atcha boy. Word to your mother

OMG WOW SO CLOSE TO THE ORIGINAL

Zalis said:
But if you place artistic integrity above entertainment value, wouldn't untranslated honorifics in English dubs be a good thing?

Zalis said:
Let's see, anime gets made with the intention of viewers seeing the whole image, not getting their attention called away to read text at the bottom of the screen (for however short amounts of time), and hearing the dialogue in a language they understand. Yes, dubs certainly are closest to the original experience. If the creators intended for their shows to be read, why don't they add hardcoded Japanese text for every line of dialogue? And some subs do alter the anime to some extent. Have you not seen some releases of Bakemonogatari and other shows where subbers use solid block overlays to replace Japanese text with English?

1) Some people do have legitimate reading/vision difficulties that prevent them from properly enjoying subtitled programming.

2) English is a far more lexically diverse language than Japanese. English dubs can leverage that diversity to improve on the original scripts, whether in full-scale comedy rewrites like Ghost Stories, or just average harem comedies like Rosario+Vampire, Girls Bravo, and Magikano that benefit from minor tweaks and additions. Cry about fidelity to the original all you want, but frankly, a lot of Japanese scripts are rife with boring cookie-cutter dialogue. That's why I prefer watching good liberal subs over raws, even though I can understand pretty much anything that's not too technical or archaic.

3) "Unnecessary"? Maybe things have changed now in terms of how people get exposed to anime, but English dubs essentially laid the groundwork for Western fandom. Whether it was Astro Boy, Kimba the White Lion, Speed Racer, Robotech, Voltron, DBZ, Sailor Moon, Pokemon, Yugioh, Cardcaptors, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Outlaw Star, or any number of others, dubs got people interested in this weird foreign medium. Even today, what do you think the best method for getting a "normal" interested in anime would be? Throw them off the deep end with subtitled anime, or let them approach from the shallow end with dubbed anime?

4) Sometimes, for some roles, people do prefer English acting. With Azumanga Daioh, I'll take Jessica Boone's Chiyo-chan any day over Tomoko Kaneda's over-breathy, nails-on-chalkboard performances. (And she sounds like that in every show, too.)

5) In shows with obvious Western/non-Japanese settings, English is more natural and expected in the situation, like Chono Crusade, Baccano, Berserk, Sherlock Hound, FMA, L/R Licensed by Royalty, Emma (which unfortunately didn't get dubbed), and various other fantasy and sci-fi shows.

Debating For Cowards 101: frame the terms of the debate to pretend that no opposing viewpoints are valid. And really, if the actual creators felt insulted by the existence of dubs, do you really think they would allow them to be created? There have been some auteurs like the late Satoshi Kon who resisted dubbing, but most want the commercial product they created to have the broadest possible market. I know it's easy to forget in places like MAL where legitimate purchases are the exception, but this is a business we're talking about here.

No, there is no reason people should watch dubs if they don't want to, but there are plenty of reasons for having that option available for those who do.

gamer2710 said:
Question for you: Would you not like abridged anime series like TeamFourStar's Dragon Ball Z, or any decent fandub of a scene of an anime?

Ghostony said:
Since subs are part of the image, I can still see the whole image and not miss anything - so that argument is invalid