| I am going to go with UBW even though maybe characterization wise she is better in HF.I just like her resolution at the end of UBW Also,its very hard for me to imagine romance in HF given how things played out and the most natural one again felt like between Rin and Shirou |
 |
astroprogs said: Does it even need a poll? HF might as well be called "Rin's route v2.0. featuring Badass Rin, Illya, Ruthless Rin, Kirei, Adorable Rin, and Zouken... oh yeah and Sakura or whatever" Rin, The Badass: Rin, The Worthy Love Interest: Rin, Just The Best: and let's not forget, Older Rin :D Insertanamehere said: now that I recall, was it you who said the shinji thing Yeah. Honestly, even if Rin killed Sakura by the end of HF, she would've still been my fav.. During HF she was better in general imo. And let's not forget one important thing: Sakura is her Sister, Shinji isn't related to her. Also Shinji did everything while he was 100% in control, Sakura was influenced by AM. |
Shrimperor said: astroprogs said: Does it even need a poll? HF might as well be called "Rin's route v2.0. featuring Badass Rin, Illya, Ruthless Rin, Kirei, Adorable Rin, and Zouken... oh yeah and Sakura or whatever" Rin, The Badass: Rin, The Worthy Love Interest: Rin, Just The Best: and let's not forget, Older Rin :D  |
Shrimperor said: Yeah. Honestly, even if Rin killed Sakura by the end of HF, she would've still been my fav.. Then she would have no actual character arc so uh Shrimperor said: And let's not forget one important thing: Sakura is her Sister, Shinji isn't related to her. And? Are you saying you shouldn't try to save someones life if they aren't related to you, and you should save the life of someone related to you even at the cost of countless innocent peoples lives? Shrimperor said: Also Shinji did everything while he was 100% in control, Sakura was influenced by AM. "I said there's no need to hide it. You are not another personality. You were swallowed by the mud and have become addicted to violence, but you are still Matou Sakura. You don't need to prepare another personality to excuse yourself." All her thoughts about killing people and torturing people come from within herself, not AM so devulz maed meh do et is not a valid excuse whatsoever (and one that only cheapens her character but people do it anyway for some reason). If you say those thoughts come about from her life, again, I point you to what I said for Shinjis case. And all of this still fails to explain why it's stupid for Rin to attempt to save Shinji at the possible cost of her life while it's good for her to choose to save Sakura at the definite cost of her life and probable cost of a whole lot of other peoples lives. astroprogs said: Wait, what am i talking about? Everyone knows that Sakura is the worst fit as a love interest for Shirou, anyway. and yet she manages to have the most interesting romance in fsn |
Insertanamehere said: and yet she manages to have the most interesting romance in fsn "The most interesting" is highly subjective. ...Not to mention being wrong, at that. |
| Between Sabers "love at first sight" boy meets girl romance and Rins barely-even-a-romance it's not a hard win, though granted it's only interesting by virtue of being highly relevant to the routes themes, Shirous character development within it and both sides being fairly mentally unstable and whatnot. |
InsertanamehereJul 13, 2015 7:38 AM
astroprogs said: most interesting =/= best. if i wasnt the mot interesting one the sakura wars probably wouldnt really be a thing. but best one? well if you call shirou signing his own death sentence for the "senpai noticed me" romance to be "the best" sure that's up to you.Insertanamehere said: and yet she manages to have the most interesting romance in fsn "The most interesting" is highly subjective. ...Not to mention being wrong, at that. |
| Yeah, that. I definitely prefer Shirou with Rin or even Saber myself, but his being with Sakura was by far more interesting insofar as it's influence on story and character went. |
InsertanamehereJul 13, 2015 7:37 AM
Insertanamehere said: Between Sabers "love at first sight" boy meets girl romance and Rins barely-even-a-romance it's not a hard win, though granted it's only interesting by virtue of being highly relevant to the routes themes and Shirous character development within it. While i agree on Saber's front, i really wouldn't call Rin's "barely-even-a-romance". Rin and Shirou's relationship feels more dynamic, as they both support each other, keep each other in line, and treat each other as equals. This is more intersting, to me, than Sakura's romance. Sakura feels more like a follower who offers nothing positive to the other side. A burden that Shirou's unhealthy side feeds upon. But i can understand where you're coming from when you take Shirou's character progression course into account. |
astroprogsJul 13, 2015 7:46 AM
| Guyz, why are you discussing pairings here when there's a thread specifically made for it? >:I |
The sun is a deadly laser |
astroprogs said: stuff http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1403162&show=0#msg40840984 |
mira-nyan said: Guyz, why are you discussing pairings here when there's a thread specifically made for it? >:I Why are you surprised? We never discuss topics in their relevant threads anyway. Welp, time to go diss Miura in the best girl thread again. |
astroprogs said: mira-nyan said: Guyz, why are you discussing pairings here when there's a thread specifically made for it? >:I Why are you surprised? We never discuss topics in their relevant threads anyway. Welp, time to go diss Miura in the best girl thread again. I'm not surprised that it's happening, I'm surprised that it's happening after a thread specifically made for it was created. :I |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: astroprogs said: Why are you surprised? We never discuss topics in their relevant threads anyway. Welp, time to go diss Miura in the best girl thread again. I'm not surprised that it's happening, I'm surprised that it's happening after a thread specifically made for it was created. :I So you are surprised it's happening :P. |
| Oh god it's HF so much. Rin and sakura is the most interesting relationship in the VN. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
SaintEmiya said: mira-nyan said: I'm not surprised that it's happening, I'm surprised that it's happening after a thread specifically made for it was created. :I So you are surprised it's happening :P. No, that's not how it works. Scenario one >The best pairing thread and the episode discussion thread have been existing for a while(12 for the former, 21 for the latter). A pairing discussion happens in the episode discussion thread. This is pretty much what happens the most around here, and what I expect. Scenario two >The thread is specifically created to discuss a certain thing. But, a few days after the creation, a pairing discussion takes place, and it's not even in the thread. I know how you guys are, but that's just plain stupid. It's like you want the naziTyrel to ban you. :/ Maybe you're into that sort of thing? |
The sun is a deadly laser |
Insertanamehere said: "I said there's no need to hide it. You are not another personality. You were swallowed by the mud and have become addicted to violence, but you are still Matou Sakura. You don't need to prepare another personality to excuse yourself." All her thoughts about killing people and torturing people come from within herself, not AM so devulz maed meh do et is not a valid excuse whatsoever (and one that only cheapens her character but people do it anyway for some reason). If you say those thoughts come about from her life, again, I point you to what I said for Shinjis case. Her Toughts!!!!. If it wasn't for AM she wouldn't have done it! Thinking about Bad Things =/= doing Bad Things. Because Shinji was willing to kill innocent people (without any Influence). To risk yourself for such a person is idiotic. And as for Sakura, we come to the Question, Will you save those close to you, or will you save more Strangers? |
Shrimperor said: well that depends shrimp are you that willing to damn hundreds if not thousands of innocent people to death because of your selfishness? are you that willing to be the reason why billions possibly die because of your unwillingness to act? your girlfriend or thousands of innocent lives that she herself is killing.Insertanamehere said: "I said there's no need to hide it. You are not another personality. You were swallowed by the mud and have become addicted to violence, but you are still Matou Sakura. You don't need to prepare another personality to excuse yourself." All her thoughts about killing people and torturing people come from within herself, not AM so devulz maed meh do et is not a valid excuse whatsoever (and one that only cheapens her character but people do it anyway for some reason). If you say those thoughts come about from her life, again, I point you to what I said for Shinjis case. Her Toughts!!!!. If it wasn't for AM she wouldn't have done it! Thinking about Bad Things =/= doing Bad Things. Because Shinji was willing to kill innocent people (without any Influence). To risk yourself for such a person is idiotic. And as for Sakura, we come to the Question, Will you save those close to you, or will you save more Strangers? |
Shrimperor said: Her Toughts!!!!. If it wasn't for AM she wouldn't have done it! Thinking about Bad Things =/= doing Bad Things. It's not AM. Any form of power to do it and if the circumstances of HF had happened (or any other events to push her over the edge) and she would've snapped and done it, AM or no. Because Shinji was willing to kill innocent people (without any Influence). To risk yourself for such a person is idiotic. Nuh-uh, double standards, Sakura wanted to kill innocent people too without influence because she blamed everyone around her for all her suffering. Why is one good and the other stupid? Sakura was insane because of her circumstances, so was Shinji, and both were willing to kill innocent people. And as for Sakura, we come to the Question, Will you save those close to you, or will you save more Strangers? If you choose to not kill one person close to you at the cost of billions of peoples-strangers or not-lives, you can probably be called a little crazy. |
InsertanamehereJul 13, 2015 3:06 PM
Insertanamehere said: It's not AM. Any form of power to do it and if the circumstances of HF had happened (or any other events to push her over the edge) and she would've snapped and done it, AM or no. So She needs a ''Push''. Shinji didn't. Altough i still think It was mainly AM's influence, but ok. Insertanamehere said: Nuh-uh, double standards, Sakura wanted to kill innocent people too without influence because she blamed everyone around her for all her suffering. Why is one good and the other stupid? Sakura was insane because of her circumstances, so was Shinji, and both were willing to kill innocent people. The Difference: Shnji actually did something before anybody did anything to him. Sakura didn't. Want =/= do. + Sakura wouldn't have done it without AM (or something that makes her snap). Maloghurst said: well that depends shrimp are you that willing to damn hundreds if not thousands of innocent people to death because of your selfishness? are you that willing to be the reason why billions possibly die because of your unwillingness to act? your girlfriend or thousands of innocent lives that she herself is killing. Insertanamehere said: If you choose to not kill one person close to you at the cost of billions of peoples-strangers or not-lives, you can probably be called a little crazy. Sacrificing those close to me would only be worth it if it brings World-peace. Otherwise it isn't worth it. But then Again, i will probably try to stop a person close to me if he went 'evil/bad' beyond a certain limit. That's why i was also okay with killing Sakura after day 14. (And let's not forget she didn't try to stop Shirou killing her.) |
ShrimperorJul 13, 2015 3:20 PM
| You can see her thinking how it's other peoples fault, which isn't AM's influence but thoughts which strengthen it, coming from her, if anything. It needs the thoughts to be there and darken her, it doesn't provide the thoughts. But Shinji already snapped a long time ago which I covered in my first post, Sakura is just stronger than him. He's a victim of the Matou (and his own self) too in a way, just a considerably less sympathetic one. So assuming you have to pick between saving a few billion people and one person close to you, you'd pick that one person on account of the fact that saving a billion wouldn't bring world peace? Because that's not really a reasonable line of thought. And I doubt anyone would appreciate being saved at the cost of countless other peoples lives. |
Insertanamehere said: You can see her thinking how it's other peoples fault, which isn't AM's influence but thoughts which strengthen it, coming from her, if anything. Again. Thinking =/= doing. Her toughts makes the 'Shadow' do stuff, yes, but she wouldn't have done it without AM. Insertanamehere said: So assuming you have to pick between saving a few billion people and one person close to you, you'd pick that one person on account of the fact that saving a billion wouldn't bring world peace? Because that's not really a reasonable line of thought. And I doubt anyone would appreciate being saved at the cost of countless other peoples lives. If the person that was supposed to be sacrificed was completely innocent, then sacrificing him is wrong. If it was becuase he snapped or 'lost control' or something, then he has to be sacrificed. But then again, we will never be put in such situations, so we never know what we will do... |
| She would have if she had the ability. If AM connected to, say, Shirou, the same wouldn't come about since he doesn't want to kill people. She wanted to do it. Not in the sense of a passing thought that your annoying co-worker who keeps messing up your desk should kill himself, she consciously actively wanted people to really die and suffer as retribution for her own suffering. But that's not the question, snapped or otherwise choosing one person regardless of how well you know them over a considerably larger number of lives is ridiculous. |
Insertanamehere said: She would have if she had the ability. If AM connected to, say, Shirou, the same wouldn't come about since he doesn't want to kill people. She wanted to do it. Not in the sense of a passing thought that your annoying co-worker who keeps messing up your desk should kill himself, she consciously actively wanted people to really die and suffer as retribution for her own suffering. So if she was a normal powerful Magus she would've already killed them/tried to? i doubt it. It was the 'corrupting' power of AM the strenghed her dark toughts. If AM connected to Shirou we will probably get a Shirou who would kill someone who shows slight signs of being dangerous, i guess. He wouldn't be just our 'normal' Shirou. (Unless HA proved otherwise, since i didn't read it yet) Insertanamehere said: But that's not the question, snapped or otherwise choosing one person regardless of how well you know them over a considerably larger number of lives is ridiculous. As is sacrificing that one. To me, that one may be more important then the countless number of lives. To a person, lives aren't equal, after all. Altough i doubt i will sacrifice Billions for one person.... |
ShrimperorJul 13, 2015 3:39 PM
Shrimperor said: Isn't that just because of Shirou's influence, tho?Insertanamehere said: You can see her thinking how it's other peoples fault, which isn't AM's influence but thoughts which strengthen it, coming from her, if anything. Again. Thinking =/= doing. Her toughts makes the 'Shadow' do stuff, yes, but she wouldn't have done it without AM. Also: check your PMs, Shrimpy >.< |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Well for starters she isn't a normal person. HA isn't the same case as Sakura anyway, but he's not nearly like Sakura, so you could say that if you want. All she needs it the trigger of Shirou getting close to her and Zoukens further prodding to cause her negative thoughts to be unleashed Actually Sakura would not develop as the “Black Grail” in any other route. However, when she was chosen by Shirou, “the person she does not wish to lose”, the negative emotions she kept bottled up all these years came flooding out, which accelerated the growth of “All the World’s Evil – Angra Mainyu”. Note the order of wording. Thoughts first, then AM. He has no influence on her mind beyond making her more confident and open with her already existing darker desires. So uh, for starters you think someone would appreciate getting saved over billions of other people? |
| But without AM, there would've been nothing there to accelerate. Sure her Emotions came flooding out, but without AM to make het open, she wouldn't have done anything. Insertanamehere said: So uh, for starters you think someone would appreciate getting saved over billions of other people? Who knows? And... Shrimperor said: Altough i doubt i will sacrifice Billions for one person.... And would other people appreciate the sacrifice of that one person? |
Shrimperor said: "only if it brings world peace" . you can't honestly know if world peace can be acheived it an atrocity is averted. let alone be something acheivable. the world is a messy place it doesnt mean people should just die because of it. there is a matter of taking care of your own and just letting that person close to you go and shoot up a school full of children because "it's not your problem" and because they're close to you and those children arent. Sacrificing those close to me would only be worth it if it brings World-peace. Otherwise it isn't worth it. But then Again, i will probably try to stop a person close to me if he went 'evil/bad' beyond a certain limit. That's why i was also okay with killing Sakura after day 14. (And let's not forget she didn't try to stop Shirou killing her.) inb4 "those children can grow up to be criminal anyways so fuck em" |
Maloghurst said: the world is a messy place it doesnt mean people should just die because of it. Why should those close to me die because of it, then? |
Shrimperor said: Insertanamehere said: So uh, for starters you think someone would appreciate getting saved over billions of other people? Who knows? And... Shrimperor said: Altough i doubt i will sacrifice Billions for one person.... And would other people appreciate the sacrifice of that one person? I didn't see the edit, I quoted before it. I doubt most people will, guilt will eat away at them for the rest of their lives. We are talking about a hypothetical situation like Shirou and Sakuras where no one will ever know about your decision. Although I sure hope your point isn't that you'd only choose to save the many people over the one person depending on the condition that you'd get venerated as a hero for it. |
| I don't wanna be a Hero... I don't care about that. I care about those close to me. If they went full evil/became criminal, then sure, they have to be stopped. Otherwise sacrificing them is imo wrong. As for a Situation like Shirou and Sakura, i would've tried everything until the i had only 2 options remaining, her or the World. In that case i would chose the World, i think. The Question is, would i be able to live with it? |
| Then why ask if others will appreciate it? It's not really relevant. Granted this doesn't even relate to Sakura anymore but if they weren't in any way evil you'd choose to save them over a significant number of people you do not know? |
Insertanamehere said: Granted this doesn't even relate to Sakura anymore but if they weren't in any way evil you'd choose to save them over a significant number of people you do not know? Most likely, yes. I would choose my Family over let's say.. a City or a Country. Maybe even a Continent. |
| I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then, this isn't really relevant to the topic anymore anyway. |
| HF |
 |
FakePriest said: uh....what is this conversation? Rin was resolute to kill Sakura until the last second where she realised that she couldn't kill her only relative whom she was never able to do anything for. Is it that hard to accept? she's only human her decision was to kill Sakura but at the end she just couldn't do it. Stev pls I don't think you quite followed what I was talking about. pls |
FakePriest said: didn't really read only the end on this page and ur first post. Insertanamehere said: Granted this doesn't even relate to Sakura anymore but if they weren't in any way evil you'd choose to save them over a significant number of people you do not know? just saying Rin didn't choose not to kill her as her "choice". mmmm...... |
| Fake, we were talking wether it's right to save one close to you and sacrifice many, or sacrifice those close to you and save many. |
Shrimperor said: typical HF fanboy trying to whitewash the scenarioMaloghurst said: the world is a messy place it doesnt mean people should just die because of it. Why should those close to me die because of it, then? because that said loved one is about to take an untold number of lives. according to you it's okay for them to do so because they had it bad as if nobody else in the world had it bad. and while with the given scenario this also means that your other loved ones should die also because their lives are worth less than this persons |
Maloghurst said: Shrimperor said: typical HF fanboy trying to whitewash the scenarioWhy should those close to me die because of it, then? because that said loved one is about to take an untold number of lives. according to you it's okay for them to do so because they had it bad as if nobody else in the world had it bad. and while with the given scenario this also means that your other loved ones should die also because their lives are worth less than this persons me and Steve were talking about something else tough... And if you read my posts you would've known that i was okay with killing Sakura After day 14... And i never said anything like the Bolded Part lel xD Try harder pls, Malog. |
ShrimperorJul 13, 2015 5:02 PM
Shrimperor said: it's what you implied in multiple comments you made.....again white washing...Maloghurst said: typical HF fanboy trying to whitewash the scenario because that said loved one is about to take an untold number of lives. according to you it's okay for them to do so because they had it bad as if nobody else in the world had it bad. and while with the given scenario this also means that your other loved ones should die also because their lives are worth less than this persons me and Steve were talking about something else tough... And if you read my posts you would've known that i was okay with killing Sakura After day 14... And i never said anything like the Bolded Part lel xD Try harder pls, Malog. but since you said you went with this (the bold)that i guess agree to disagree? |
MaloghurstJul 13, 2015 5:35 PM
| What white washing xD All i said is that if i have to chose between one close person or Much more strangers, i would chose the person close to me. How does that mean ''it's okay for them to do so because they had it bad as if nobody else in the world had it bad.''? Because i disagree with that... |
Shrimperor said: said loved one is the one about to take the lives and you ignored that, you even cut out most of my comment to even push your argument how is this not white washing.What white washing xD All i said is that if i have to chose between one close person or Much more strangers, i would chose the person close to me. How does that mean ''it's okay for them to do so because they had it bad as if nobody else in the world had it bad.''? Because i disagree with that... [quote=shrimpemperorI don't wanna be a Hero... I don't care about that. I care about those close to me. If they went full evil/became criminal, then sure, they have to be stopped. Otherwise sacrificing them is imo wrong. As for a Situation like Shirou and Sakura, i would've tried everything until the i had only 2 options remaining, her or the World. In that case i would chose the World, i think. The Question is, would i be able to live with it?[/quote=shrimpemperor] we're just standing in the same circle, this has long past pointlessness. this wishes it was pointlessness at least in pointlessness there may or may not had been some form of point. |
| read the Post you quoted again ''If they went full evil/became criminal, they have to be stopped'' That also applies to that shooter ._. |
Shrimperor said: that's why i quoted it....we've never had a point to begin with...and that was my point.read the Post you quoted again ''If they went full evil/became criminal, they have to be stopped'' That also applies to that shooter ._. |
| Sakura is always a sore controversial topic to the VN fans anyways..I would vote for UBW.I like Rin's resolution better in that route though characterization wise,maybe HF edges out. Is it just me or anyone else wonders HF would have been better without the entire romance thing going around..as in Sakura could have been characterized in another way? Though outcome wise,preferably Shirou-Sakura seems the most imminent one out of the three if there wasn't any HGW..it still feels kinda forced(?). |
 |
Animestic said: Sakura is always a sore controversial topic to the VN fans anyways..I would vote for UBW.I like Rin's resolution better in that route though characterization wise,maybe HF edges out. Is it just me or anyone else wonders HF would have been better without the entire romance thing going around..as in Sakura could have been characterized in another way? Though outcome wise,preferably Shirou-Sakura seems the most imminent one out of the three if there wasn't any HGW..it still feels kinda forced(?). If there wasn't any HGW, Saber and Shirou would have never met, Shirou would probably never talk to Rin and Sakura would still be over at Shirous house all the time and him eventually noticing her isn't that hard to believe since the other 2 would be out of the way.... unless you know Ayako makes a move or something |
KamiCityJul 14, 2015 2:22 PM
 |
KamiCity said: Animestic said: Sakura is always a sore controversial topic to the VN fans anyways..I would vote for UBW.I like Rin's resolution better in that route though characterization wise,maybe HF edges out. Is it just me or anyone else wonders HF would have been better without the entire romance thing going around..as in Sakura could have been characterized in another way? Though outcome wise,preferably Shirou-Sakura seems the most imminent one out of the three if there wasn't any HGW..it still feels kinda forced(?). If there wasn't any HGW, Saber and Shirou would have never met, Shirou would probably never talk to Rin and Sakura would still be over at Shirous house all the time and him eventually noticing her isn't that hard to believe since the other 2 would be out of the way.... unless you know Ayako makes a move or something But you see, Saber is almost a female Shirou. They can have chemistry, even if that wasn't handled very well by Nasu. Rin had Shirou's affection before the story even started, so you can see that going somewhere. Sakura, however, seemed to be the one with the affection. Heck, the best Shirou could muster all the way to HF's half-point was: You can see why people may feel it was forced, even though they practically lived together for a long time before the HGW. |
astroprogsJul 14, 2015 2:41 PM
| At the beginning of the VN Shirou was starting to look at Sakura as more than just a family member nudge nudge,but he he also friendzoned himself at the time,so I don't really agree with it being forced. |
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