ok good finally but i still dont see why some of these ppl consider them harmful...smh |
username1218 said: ok good finally but i still dont see why some of these ppl consider them harmful...smh Fear. Morality. People tend to consider them harmful even if they never did it, even once, because they're a potential threat that does not adhere to society norms. Which is a typical westerner mindset. |
  |
Eldinis said: This is actually an interesting post. Probably one of the better one which is posted here as well. May I know why and where is the root behind the said european morality and mindset? Is it because there's no such thing as kawaii culture being mainstream in the west? And that celebs are generally have a more bold and sexy outward appearance instead of the innocent and young looking in their choice of fashion? I'm surprised I did not find this thread earlier. And I'm even more surprised it is receiving that many answers and that much hate. EcchiGodMamster said: the only argument anyone needs is that theres NO correlation between anime and crime, and anime is just used as an excuse for people to ignore real world issues This is actually a clever point but most legislators will disagree with you. There has been a few years ago a EU-wide ban on "fictive childporn content" and this actually was a solid argument. Even if classic pedophilia porn was banned, if people get used to lolicon pictures, hentai, child sexdolls, and more generally any kind of childlike porn stuff, they get immediately censored. The United States has a complex law system since it's a federal state, and I won't speak for American citizens. I know that Japanese law only has the censorship barrier which is why uncensored hentai is hentai edited by westerners for westerners.  Famous French painter René Magritte actually painted this pipe and boldy stated its fictive nature. One does not judge from another's physical / outward appearance. To a certain extent, asian women look younger than caucasian ones. Cosplayers who actually show their pants or whatever obscene poses at public conventions in Asia might just as well get arrested in US/EU expositions for criminal behavior; and that is for the same reason, westerners do not appreciate (SFW) or condemn (NSFW) childish figures. Sadly, this argument is utter horseshit but is widely used in US/EU for protective reasons. Russia and Switzerland and other outside EU might have softer mentalities on the subject; but anyway, the european moral and ethics do not condone youth fetish. They say the mindset of the population reflects the law, and I think today the world is clearly divided between two cultures to put it bluntly: Old Europe and Modern Asia. But it's another matter entirely.  Also I like that Magritte picture. It emphasis that what we think of it as a picture of a pipe is merely the result of our perception of the painted representation of what Magritte percepts what a pipe looks like when she draw it. It's her way of challenging the structure of what the average people would just say that "it's a pipe". What you said about our world being generally divided into two cultures is also an interesting one. To be fair I'd really like to hear more about it but yeah, it's out of the topic of this thread. Eldinis said: Well, Irrational fear when put into extreme can also evolves into blind hatred such as racism, homophobia, whatosever. which is why I sometimes fail to understand on why a lot of people are still taking fearmongerig seriously.username1218 said: ok good finally but i still dont see why some of these ppl consider them harmful...smh Fear. Morality. People tend to consider them harmful even if they never did it, even once, because they're a potential threat that does not adhere to society norms. Which is a typical westerner mindset. |
DesolatedApr 5, 2021 7:17 AM
 |
username1218 said: ok good finally but i still dont see why some of these ppl consider them harmful...smh Because crimes such as child rape and molestation are linked to paedophila, lolicons also mean paedophile, so people despise them. Similarly, people who despise incesters do so because incest is illegal and is linked to genetic disorders. As a result, people despise the concept itself rather than the criminal actions; a non-criminal paedophile with decent morals would acknowledge that molesting children and the promotion of child pornography are ethically bad; as a result, they express their sexual desires through safe alternative means such as fiction, 2D or 3D porn that depicts children, which is harmless. Preventing this type of porn material is actually harmful to everyone because it limits paedophiles' options, leaving them with the only option of targeting real children and promoting child pornography. |
DeagoApr 5, 2021 7:21 AM
 |
sntiago said: Americans have a horrible sense of age anyway. I've seen people be called pedophiles for liking a 17 yr old anime character because they're 22. Any type of fanservice(by fans and studios alike) recently is also apparently child pornography if the character is a highschooler. (Avoid tiktok anime fans at all costs pls) While I don't like the childish look of lolis and am pretty uncomfortable about lolis that look AND act like children, you have to admit that you can't apply real life rules to anime. Y'all really wanna tell me any character in Jojo looks truly underage? Characters act like and have the authority of adults in a lot of anime, even tho they're still technically highschoolers. Most characters in anime are "without nationality" (Mukokuseki) because you can't tell me high school anime accurately portray japanese youth, when naturally blonde (or pink hair, lol) is extremely rare for japanese people. Even american-japanese mixes rarely have blonde hair bc blonde hair is a recessive gene and darker (brown/black) hair is dominant. The same way races are ambiguous in anime, age is. To me at least. Only few anime portray characters of certain age accurately. So most character are raceless and ageless unless their nationality or age is accurately portrayed or is of importance. I still hate lolis tho because they're 1000% unappealing and annoying. I believe this is the best response in the entire topic. |
| その目だれの目？ |
sntiago said: Americans have a horrible sense of age anyway. I've seen people be called pedophiles for liking a 17 yr old anime character because they're 22. Any type of fanservice(by fans and studios alike) recently is also apparently child pornography if the character is a highschooler. (Avoid tiktok anime fans at all costs pls) While I don't like the childish look of lolis and am pretty uncomfortable about lolis that look AND act like children, you have to admit that you can't apply real life rules to anime. Y'all really wanna tell me any character in Jojo looks truly underage? Characters act like and have the authority of adults in a lot of anime, even tho they're still technically highschoolers. Most characters in anime are "without nationality" (Mukokuseki) because you can't tell me high school anime accurately portray japanese youth, when naturally blonde (or pink hair, lol) is extremely rare for japanese people. Even american-japanese mixes rarely have blonde hair bc blonde hair is a recessive gene and darker (brown/black) hair is dominant. The same way races are ambiguous in anime, age is. To me at least. Only few anime portray characters of certain age accurately. So most character are raceless and ageless unless their nationality or age is accurately portrayed or is of importance. I still hate lolis tho because they're 1000% unappealing and annoying. According to some literatures, paedophilia is defined as an attraction to children aged 10 or under, Hebephilia as an attraction to preteens aged 11 to 14, and Ephebophilia as an attraction to teenagers aged 15 to 19. Soruce: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18686026/ |
|
| I mean, if someone jerks off at Kanna, for example, yeah, kinda creppy man, but I'm not the one who gonna judge that guy since almost everyone from here, including me, has jerked off with something that is not morally correct. We have to take the fact that it's anime. Anime It's rarelly commensurable with reality yknow. I wan't to talk about the Piper Perri topic aswell cuz hella true. Piper Perri appeals to people who feels attraction to small and childlike people. If that's okay, i think we can say that jerking off at the kind of characters we are talking about it's okay aswell. But it really depends of the character. |
 The fake is of far greater value. In its deliberate attempt to be real, it's more real than the real thing. If u hate monogatari, u are just dumb |
Lucifrost said: sntiago said: Americans have a horrible sense of age anyway. I've seen people be called pedophiles for liking a 17 yr old anime character because they're 22. Any type of fanservice(by fans and studios alike) recently is also apparently child pornography if the character is a highschooler. (Avoid tiktok anime fans at all costs pls) While I don't like the childish look of lolis and am pretty uncomfortable about lolis that look AND act like children, you have to admit that you can't apply real life rules to anime. Y'all really wanna tell me any character in Jojo looks truly underage? Characters act like and have the authority of adults in a lot of anime, even tho they're still technically highschoolers. Most characters in anime are "without nationality" (Mukokuseki) because you can't tell me high school anime accurately portray japanese youth, when naturally blonde (or pink hair, lol) is extremely rare for japanese people. Even american-japanese mixes rarely have blonde hair bc blonde hair is a recessive gene and darker (brown/black) hair is dominant. The same way races are ambiguous in anime, age is. To me at least. Only few anime portray characters of certain age accurately. So most character are raceless and ageless unless their nationality or age is accurately portrayed or is of importance. I still hate lolis tho because they're 1000% unappealing and annoying. I believe this is the best response in the entire topic.  A topic I can't comment on however and that is often discussed in anime spaces is wether the sexualization of highschool anime characters adds to the sexualization of real japanese school girls and thus adds to stuff like victim blaming. It's basically what happened to real gyaru in japan, they were victim blamed for going on "dates" with older men and being payed for that even though they were under age. They were portrayed as slutty and money-hungry because of the sexualization in japanese media, when it was really the parents/schools/legislation's failure of protecting these underage girls from being harmed by 40yr old men and the 40 yr old men's fault for being paedophiles and going on dates with actual school girls. The sexualization of school girls unifroms in anime added onto this, I believe. This is a topic I'm extremely conflicted on as it's supported by good arguments from both sides and the harmful sexualization of underage people through media isn't exclusive to anime. |
| obscure anime for u idiots to watch right NOW 1.Odd Taxi WATCH THIS!!!!! 2.LINK CLICK super underrated!! (chinese, foto-time travelling, emotional stories dope music) 3.Mashiro no Oto if u like traditional jap banger music please support Cherry&virgin if u can!! |
KaiserHamuel said: skapito said: I mean, if someone jerks off at Kanna, for example, yeah, kinda creppy man, but I'm not the one who gonna judge that guy since almost everyone from here, including me, has jerked off with something that is not morally correct. We have to take the fact that it's anime. Anime It's rarelly commensurable with reality yknow. I wan't to talk about the Piper Perri topic aswell cuz hella true. Piper Perri appeals to people who feels attraction to small and childlike people. If that's okay, i think we can say that jerking off at the kind of characters we are talking about it's okay aswell. But it really depends of the character. There are degrees of morality. Jerking off to bdsm is weird but not as morally corrupting as fapping to children or those portrayed ad children. Who exactly is harmed if someone fapped to drawings of children? |
|
Why is it messed up? because you don't like it? |
|
Desolated said: May I know why and where is the root behind the said european morality and mindset? Is it because there's no such thing as kawaii culture being mainstream in the west? And that celebs are generally have a more bold and sexy outward appearance instead of the innocent and young looking in their choice of fashion? What you said about our world being generally divided into two cultures is also an interesting one. To be fair I'd really like to hear more about it but yeah, it's out of the topic of this thread. In fact, there may be a lot of root causes. So far, I've tried to describe the legal-moral situation as it is. But here are my two pennies: 1) As many of us have stated, asian women tend to look younger than their caucasian counterpart. So it's basically a genetical thing. 2) Speculating more and I'll blab about a lot of random things here, Japan was isolated from the rest of the world from centuries. They grew a special culture and they influence China which in turn influence East Asia as a cultural and economical center. Japanese have Chinese ancestors too historically. So in short, these two nations have a lot in common influencing each other. Throw in Korea and you have the 3 big countries who "hate" each other but who influence most of the Asian world. Then... Most importantly, when you could see the divided world at its best during the Cold War. Recently, there has been missile concerns about Korea test launching them above Japan. So, even today, there political tensions with US/Japan /Europe in one side and Russia/China on the other side. Throw in a few arabic countries and you get a geopolitical headache. 3) Point 2 was about politics, now it's about culture. Yes, kawaii is more popular in East Asia, you even have that AKB48 idol group who has spread throughout many countries with a lot of country-specific groups. But I think the problem is bigger than that. It's not only about childlike girls or a few idols. I think it's about the place of the women in the society. In Japan and in China, a woman should marry when she's still young enough 20-30. A woman stays at home while the man works outside, and it is not perceived negatively, quite the opposite! Of course, there are regional or individual choices, but globally, the woman is still the XIX century woman. You see these anime girls that wish to become a "housewife", that they write in their highschool career forms or whenever they speak with their anime friends? That's a good representation of the woman state. Most westerners would say it's bad, it's not good feminism, etc... but in Asia it is perceived as well as it was in the XIX or even in the 1960s. Not expressing any opinion on this matter for now. Desolated said: Also I like that Magritte picture. It emphasis that what we think of it as a picture of a pipe is merely the result of our perception of the painted representation of what Magritte percepts what a pipe looks like when she draw it. It's her way of challenging the structure of what the average people would just say that "it's a pipe". Well, thanks! I'm glad someone appreciates that! I've edited my first post since René Magritte is Belgian not French '-' and it's a man. Maybe we'll get the person right by the end of this topic '-'. Desolated said: Well, Irrational fear when put into extreme can also evolves into blind hatred such as racism, homophobia, whatosever. which is why I sometimes fail to understand on why a lot of people are still taking fearmongerig seriously. Actually, it works well on weak-minded or poorly educated people, which sadly is the majority of most people. Even educated people can be idiots or assholes anyway. In France, there is this right wing party who almost won the presidentials. I remember the news were saying how much the world was watching the outcome. Trump had been elected, it was the rise of Kim Jung Un, England was starting a Brexit. They were saying there was a lot of nationalism around the world, and that if France, the country of freedom and equality chose this kind of leader, that might be catastrophic as one of the last walls of worldwide open-mindedness. So, yeah here is the example of fearmongering I remember. And it's terrifying how it works as well as it has worked for Hitler in 1933. (Disclaimer: I do not compare the politicians of today with Hitler, they are not the same!) You can see this topic is actually a micro experiment of what happens when you throw a sensitive subject at a national assembly/congress/council. |
EldinisApr 5, 2021 7:57 AM
|
I didn't ask you if you like or dislike pedophilia, I asked you if you don't like sexual drawings that depict children. Masturbation to real child porn is harmless in and of itself, but it is indirectly harmful because it promotes the child pornography industry. -similar to the arguement of veganism-. However, this is not the case with art and fiction, because the source of such art does not necessitate the exploitation of real children. |
|
KaiserHamuel said: skapito said: I mean, if someone jerks off at Kanna, for example, yeah, kinda creppy man, but I'm not the one who gonna judge that guy since almost everyone from here, including me, has jerked off with something that is not morally correct. We have to take the fact that it's anime. Anime It's rarelly commensurable with reality yknow. I wan't to talk about the Piper Perri topic aswell cuz hella true. Piper Perri appeals to people who feels attraction to small and childlike people. If that's okay, i think we can say that jerking off at the kind of characters we are talking about it's okay aswell. But it really depends of the character. There are degrees of morality. Jerking off to bdsm is weird but not as morally corrupting as fapping to children or those portrayed ad children. U are totally right mate, I totally missed the point from my post as i wanted to say that jerking off to those portrayed as children is bloody awful, but not to those portrayed as teenagers, since I'ts smth more morally correct than the other thing. I think now I've explained myself. |
The fake is of far greater value. In its deliberate attempt to be real, it's more real than the real thing. If u hate monogatari, u are just dumb |
Lol could this image be anymore stereotypical? Deago said: All "Child molesters" are paedophiles Actually most child molesters aren't pedophiles: https://www.vice.com/en/article/mgmzwn/most-child-sex-abusers-are-not-pedophiles-expert-says |
   |
skapito said: KaiserHamuel said: There are degrees of morality. Jerking off to bdsm is weird but not as morally corrupting as fapping to children or those portrayed ad children. U are totally right mate, I totally missed the point from my post as i wanted to say that jerking off to those portrayed as children is bloody awful, but not to those portrayed as teenagers, since I'ts smth more morally correct than the other thing. I think now I've explained myself. Why is it bloody awful? and why do you think it is morally incorrect ? |
|
ArtieJones said: If you are sexually attracted to a child-looking anime character, you are a creepy pedo, end of the story. Age is just an excuse, you are not attracted to age, you are attracted to body features.* ArtieJones said: Don't know about you, but I personally am not sexually attracted to drawings, regardless of their age or how they look. I guess this debate is more for those who find themselves in your reply. I didn't ask if you are attracted to anime girls, nor do i care. Whether you are or you aren't is irrelevant to my question. Don't pretend that you are disconnected from this debate, because you actively took a stance in it the moment you wrote that statement in bold. That's why i'm asking you: if i'm attracted to an anime girl (let's say Raphtalia for the sake of a different example) that boasts a well-endowed, adult-looking body despite still being underage, does that make me a "creepy pedo" in your eyes? Because according to your statement in bold, it shouldn't... and yet, i've seen plenty of people who share your exact same stance say otherwise, despite it being a direct contradiction to the aforementioned statement. So i'm curious, what do you think of that? |
so u think of lolicons as pedophiles. do you want anything to be done about it? |
Frat_Snap said: Lol could this image be anymore stereotypical? Deago said: All "Child molesters" are paedophiles Actually most child molesters *aren't* pedophiles: https://www.vice.com/en/article/mgmzwn/most-child-sex-abusers-are-not-pedophiles-expert-says It all depends on why they're doing it, and I'm assuming they typically sexually molest children for sexual satisfaction. But, in any case, the point is to distinguish between actions and sexual preference. |
|
Deago said: skapito said: U are totally right mate, I totally missed the point from my post as i wanted to say that jerking off to those portrayed as children is bloody awful, but not to those portrayed as teenagers, since I'ts smth more morally correct than the other thing. I think now I've explained myself. Why is it bloody awful? and why do you think it is morally incorrect ? I'll go straight to the point: As I said, I'm not judging anyone, I'm not gonna punch someone just because they like lolicon stuff, but personally I think I'ts not correct. I just want to believe that anyone who jerks off to that shit aren't able to jerk off to child porn, yknow? Hard to believe sometimes tho. |
The fake is of far greater value. In its deliberate attempt to be real, it's more real than the real thing. If u hate monogatari, u are just dumb |
KaiserHamuel said: Deago said: Masturbation to real child porn is harmless in and of itself, but it is indirectly harmful because it promotes the child pornography industry. -similar to the arguement of veganism-. However, this is not the case with art and fiction, because the source of such art does not necessitate the exploitation of real children. Real child porn is not indirectly harmless. I never said that Also if you are attracted to a child or child like character in sexually compromising situations because they are a child it is pedophilia regardless of whether it is a cartoon or real Thus I make no distinction between lolicon and pedophilia. I never said otherwise. . And I personally think that pedophilia is immoral. I disagree, because having thoughts about commiting immoral actions is still not immoral. |
|
I don't think all lolicons are pedophiles, but I do think a decent portion of them probably are. And no I don't care even if they are pedophiles, they can jerk off to whatever fictional drawings they want. |
|
KaiserHamuel said: skapito said: U are totally right mate, I totally missed the point from my post as i wanted to say that jerking off to those portrayed as children is bloody awful, but not to those portrayed as teenagers, since I'ts smth more morally correct than the other thing. I think now I've explained myself. Apologies I misunderstood your point. Pardon me mate, everything okay now. |
The fake is of far greater value. In its deliberate attempt to be real, it's more real than the real thing. If u hate monogatari, u are just dumb |
KaiserHamuel said: Because he like most people think child pornography no matter what form is fucked. Child pornography that depicts fictional children is not fucked. And you failed to provide a good reason or at least one example of how it is harmful. Implications matter. If it depicts a child in a way meant to attract then it is pedophilia. I totally agree with that. |
|
skapito said: I'll go straight to the point: As I said, I'm not judging anyone, I'm not gonna punch someone just because they like lolicon stuff, but personally I think I'ts not correct. I just want to believe that anyone who jerks off to that shit aren't able to jerk off to child porn, yknow? Hard to believe sometimes tho. And that's true, they are fucking paedophiles, but being a paedophile is similar to being a sadist who gets sexually aroused by inflicting suffering to other people, some people watch rape hentai or real porn with rape roleplay. Both can be decent civilised human beings because apparently humans can be smarter than animals and control their sexual urges. |
|
Stygian_Prisoner said: ArtieJones said: If you are sexually attracted to a child-looking anime character, you are a creepy pedo, end of the story. Age is just an excuse, you are not attracted to age, you are attracted to body features.* ArtieJones said: Don't know about you, but I personally am not sexually attracted to drawings, regardless of their age or how they look. I guess this debate is more for those who find themselves in your reply. I didn't ask if you are attracted to anime girls, nor do i care. Whether you are or you aren't is irrelevant to my question. Don't pretend that you are disconnected from this debate, because you actively took a stance in it the moment you wrote that statement in bold. That's why i'm asking you: if i'm attracted to an anime girl (let's say Raphtalia for the sake of a different example) that boasts a well-endowed, adult-looking body despite still being underage, does that make me a "creepy pedo" in your eyes? Because according to your statement in bold, it shouldn't... and yet, i've seen plenty of people who share your exact same stance say otherwise, despite it being a direct contradiction to the aforementioned statement. So i'm curious, what do you think of that? No, that doesn't make you a pedo. After a bit of googling, looks like she's some demi human and they age differently, and she doesn't look like a kid physically so it's okay. Of course this logic can't be applied to real life since mental maturity plays a big role. |
| I can kinda understand. The problem with Kanna is that despite being centuries old dragon, she looks AND behaves as a child, so lewding her is wrong. Also, Kanna has official lewding immunity, so it would be a crime.  |
 |
KaiserHamuel said: Deago said: Child pornography that depicts fictional children is not fucked. And you failed to provide a good reason or at least one example of how it is harmful. I totally agree with that. I not saying it’s harmful. I’m saying whether or not it is harmful doesn’t matter. Being attracted to a 6 year old is wrong and those who are should seek help. How can something be morally wrong and unharmful at the same time? |
|
Desolated said: your honor, with this evidence i believe we can safely say that this case has come to a closeSo I've seen arguments "On The Loli Question" which is that "If it looks like a child it's a child", which is to be frank, utterly nonsensical. In anime example, this argument was used against the people who used the "she's a 1000 year old dragon" argument. While in case of say some characters like Kanna Kamui it might seems to hold up some candle: But this kind of argument FALL APART when faced with real life examples. To make it easier let's just have an example of this Kanna Kamui Cosplayer: She can be look rather underage but actually, the cosplayer in question was actually 28 during the time of the Kanna Kamui photo was taken (32 on the other photos as it was taken recently especially the Shiro one). She's also already married and has a child as well. Now the statement of "If it looks like a child it's a child", being used in this context would end up being, is this 28-32 year old woman a child, and is her husband and everyone else who's a fan of her looks are bunch of pedophiles? If these question are asked to me, I would be, without any speck of doubt, answer it with a sound "NO". What I'm trying to say here is that to all the people here who are ranting about "lolis" being portrayed in a rather suggestive scenes in anime and trying to challenge the "But she's a 1000 year old dragon" with "If it looks like a child it's a child" argument, please, for the love of whoever your idol is, reconsider if your argument are being applied IRL. There are a lot of asians, especially east asians, due to facial features and the "kawaii/ulzzang/lenglui culture", might look so young they might be mistaken as an early teenagers if seen by the western lens. Anyways, that's kind of my rant. What do you guys think? Do you guys think that this argument still stands, or do you think it's also nonsensical? Yes, I don't deny that there are a certain part of the people who likes loli smut are actually problematic people who consumes CP or involved in trying to have a sexual relationship with underages in social medias such as discord and so on. But to say that everyone, even if one's just simply like some of the lewd "lolis" are problematic is ridiculous. Because hell, we weebs can't even agree about the definition of what is a loli in the first place, or which characters "looks like a child" and which one isn't in the first place. And to be fair, thinking that every anime's short moe looking character "looks like a child" is kind of racist because east asians, especially modern one due to the culture I said above, generally have a younger facial features compared to westerners. To end this thread I guess I'd end up with sharing some of other cosplayers which looks very young as well for a consideration, and yes, all people I shared here were at least 20 years old during the time the photo was taken. |
| I am the handle of my mop Rags are my body, and detergent is my blood I have scrubbed over a thousand floors Unknown to sick leave Nor known to pay Have withstood abuse to sweep many surfaces Yet those hands will never hold money So as I clean, Unlimited Maid Works |
Why? This is nothing but circular reasoning, you are not providing a reason to support the "should not". For example, one should not smoke around people because it causes lung cancer to bystanders and damages the environment, therefore it is immoral. |
|
Eldinis said: Hmm I guess that's a good point.Desolated said: May I know why and where is the root behind the said european morality and mindset? Is it because there's no such thing as kawaii culture being mainstream in the west? And that celebs are generally have a more bold and sexy outward appearance instead of the innocent and young looking in their choice of fashion? What you said about our world being generally divided into two cultures is also an interesting one. To be fair I'd really like to hear more about it but yeah, it's out of the topic of this thread. In fact, there may be a lot of root causes. So far, I've tried to describe the legal-moral situation as it is. But here are my two pennies: 1) As many of us have stated, asian women tend to look younger than their caucasian counterpart. So it's basically a genetical thing. 2) Speculating more and I'll blab about a lot of random things here, Japan was isolated from the rest of the world from centuries. They grew a special culture and they influence China which in turn influence East Asia as a cultural and economical center. Japanese have Chinese ancestors too historically. So in short, these two nations have a lot in common influencing each other. Throw in Korea and you have the 3 big countries who "hate" each other but who influence most of the Asian world. Then... Most importantly, when you could see the divided world at its best during the Cold War. Recently, there has been missile concerns about Korea test launching them above Japan. So, even today, there political tensions with US/Japan /Europe in one side and Russia/China on the other side. Throw in a few arabic countries and you get a geopolitical headache. 3) Point 2 was about politics, now it's about culture. Yes, kawaii is more popular in East Asia, you even have that AKB48 idol group who has spread throughout many countries with a lot of country-specific groups. But I think the problem is bigger than that. It's not only about childlike girls or a few idols. I think it's about the place of the women in the society. In Japan and in China, a woman should marry when she's still young enough 20-30. A woman stays at home while the man works outside, and it is not perceived negatively, quite the opposite! Of course, there are regional or individual choices, but globally, the woman is still the XIX century woman. You see these anime girls that wish to become a "housewife", that they write in their highschool career forms or whenever they speak with their anime friends? That's a good representation of the woman state. Most westerners would say it's bad, it's not good feminism, etc... but in Asia it is perceived as well as it was in the XIX or even in the 1960s. Not expressing any opinion on this matter for now. Desolated said: Also I like that Magritte picture. It emphasis that what we think of it as a picture of a pipe is merely the result of our perception of the painted representation of what Magritte percepts what a pipe looks like when she draw it. It's her way of challenging the structure of what the average people would just say that "it's a pipe". Well, thanks! I'm glad someone appreciates that! I've edited my first post since René Magritte is Belgian not French '-' and it's a man. Maybe we'll get the person right by the end of this topic '-'. Desolated said: Well, Irrational fear when put into extreme can also evolves into blind hatred such as racism, homophobia, whatosever. which is why I sometimes fail to understand on why a lot of people are still taking fearmongerig seriously. Actually, it works well on weak-minded or poorly educated people, which sadly is the majority of most people. Even educated people can be idiots or assholes anyway. In France, there is this right wing party who almost won the presidentials. I remember the news were saying how much the world was watching the outcome. Trump had been elected, it was the rise of Kim Jung Un, England was starting a Brexit. They were saying there was a lot of nationalism around the world, and that if France, the country of freedom and equality chose this kind of leader, that might be catastrophic as one of the last walls of worldwide open-mindedness. So, yeah here is the example of fearmongering I remember. And it's terrifying how it works as well as it has worked for Hitler in 1933. (Disclaimer: I do not compare the politicians of today with Hitler, they are not the same!) You can see this topic is actually a micro experiment of what happens when you throw a sensitive subject at a national assembly/congress/council. Asian countries tend to be more ethnically homogenous, upholding traditions, and so on. Though the kawaii thing is something particularly new since it's related to the Japanese pop culture whilst the idealized Yamato Nadeshiko housewife in Japan (which has been a cultural thing since before the pop culture) don't have to be kawaii. I guess that just means that Asian tend to be hardly affected by western cultural movement but a cultural movement that starts in Asian countries can just affect the people's mindset easily. Maybe it also works vice-versa for the western countries due to cultural movement is strongly linked with the conditions of each countries. And when people from these distinct cultures got introduced to the other cultures they aren't accustomed with, there might be some clash that's bound to happen. Oh right. Marine Le Pen seems to have a rise in popularity due to her reformed the wrappings of her National Front from a racist party of Holocaust denier to a party that seems inclusive and has younger generations being member of her party. Though in reality, the policies she would take aren't as nice as it sounds like of course. I also believe that something like the ISIS attacks back then in France helped the fearmongering of the people about the immigrants. About this one, I have to disagree. This is the same logic the people, especially the religious fundamentalist used back then to judge the gays. "One should not be attracted to someone of the same sex." Which answer is that one simply can't choose people of which sexuality they're attracted to. A person can, however, control the said impulses. |
DesolatedApr 5, 2021 8:54 AM
|
KaiserHamuel said: Deago said: Why? This is nothing but circular reasoning, you are not providing a reason to support the "should not". For example, one should not smoke around people because it causes lung cancer to bystanders and damages the environment, therefore it is immoral. Wanting to fuck kids is worse then smoking No, wanting to fuck kids does zero damage, therefore smoking around people is worse. |
|
Desolated said: Scordolo said: oh the argument? There are decent amount of people who said this to be fair. These are some examples.No I meant to THOSE who think this are dumb. https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1894872#msg61926648 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1910868#msg62583770 I did read it and I disagree with all that you have said, if it looks like a child its pedophilia MAJOR BRUH MOMENT.....!!!!!! Finally someone makes sense. |
 Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
Desolated said: They don't really look under 16, only when they're trying really hard and are around 18-22 themselves I also don't really see how all of this relevant. Those kinds of idols are made to look like children/early teens. They're trying to appeal to men who are into children/early teens (look at the outfits and poses). Not men who are into women who look like children/early teens.Kaasfondue said: Yep, but actual early-mid teens are still illegal. Never said that they look like a 6 years old tbh. And my point is that they're legal but their face might've comes off as illegal to some unsuspecting eye.If it looks like a child it still looks like a child, who cares. If you're into that don't be surpised when people are suspicious. Those cosplayers don't look like children. Adult women that look like children don't exist. They look like teenagers at best. Edit: OK, that last one was really creepy. The first few just had massive amounts of photoshop so I didn't buy it. The last pic in my OP is an ex-idol named Marina Nagasawa btw. The whole lolis and lolicons issue is about men who are into little girs, drawn or not. So all I have to say is, "if it looks like a child, it looks like a child". If you're into that, IDC but don't be surprised when people are suspicious of your interests. |
 |
| I'm sure this has been said pretty much but damn, that first cosplayer. Her eyes are creepy as fuck. |
"Perfection is perception. For me, humanity's imperfections is what makes it perfect"  |
Kaasfondue said: So you think that there would be no difference whether the person is actually an early-mid teen vs if they're an adult who looks early-mid teen? You think that they won't be like, go for it if it's the latter and noped out of it if it's the former?Desolated said: They don't really look under 16, only when they're trying really hard and are around 18-22 themselves I also don't really see how all of this relevant. Those kinds of idols are made to look like children/early teens. They're trying to appeal to men who are into children/early teens (look at the outfits and poses). Not men who are into women who look like children/early teens.Yep, but actual early-mid teens are still illegal. Never said that they look like a 6 years old tbh. And my point is that they're legal but their face might've comes off as illegal to some unsuspecting eye. The last pic in my OP is an ex-idol named Marina Nagasawa btw. The whole lolis and lolicons issue is about men who are into little girs, drawn or not. So all I have to say is, "if it looks like a child, it looks like a child". If you're into that, IDC but don't be surprised when people are suspicious of your interests. KaiserHamuel said: Except that it's not my main point on that reply?Desolated said: Hmm I guess that's a good point. Asian countries tend to be more ethnically homogenous, upholding traditions, and so on. Though the kawaii thing is something particularly new since it's related to the Japanese pop culture whilst the idealized Yamato Nadeshiko housewife in Japan (which has been a cultural thing since before the pop culture) don't have to be kawaii. I guess that just means that Asian tend to be hardly affected by western cultural movement but a cultural movement that starts in Asian countries can just affect the people's mindset easily. Maybe it also works vice-versa for the western countries due to cultural movement is strongly linked with the conditions of each countries. And when people from these distinct cultures got introduced to the other cultures they aren't accustomed with, there might be some clash that's bound to happen. Oh right. Marine Le Pen seems to have a rise in popularity due to her reformed the wrappings of her National Front from a racist party of Holocaust denier to a party that seems inclusive and has younger generations being member of her party. Though in reality, the policies she would take aren't as nice as it sounds like of course. I also believe that something like the ISIS attacks back then in France helped the fearmongering of the people about the immigrants. About this one, I have to disagree. This is the same logic the people, especially the religious fundamentalist used back then to judge the gays. "One should not be attracted to someone of the same sex." Which answer is that one simply can't choose people of which sexuality they're attracted to. A person can, however, control the said impulses. When you compare pedophilia to being gay The main comparison is your opinion towards pedophilia vs the opinion of the fundamentalists towards the gays, which I argue that both come from identical basis. The only similar thing I mentioned here between being a homosexual and a pedophile is that you can't just change the fuck out of your attraction. If you like them, you like them. I never said that they're similar in terms of other things in the reply. |
DesolatedApr 5, 2021 9:19 AM
|
| Sad, that some people are defending rights of fucking drawn characters. |
Thank you for taking the time to make sound arguments throughout your posts. At this point I think the other guy is just trolling or is just a kid incapable of argumenting. How typical. |
Desolated said: We should be glad most people abide the law. Kaasfondue said: So you think that there would be no difference whether the person is actually an early-mid teen vs if they're an adult who looks early-mid teen? You think that they won't be like, go for it if it's the latter and noped out of it if it's the former?They don't really look under 16, only when they're trying really hard and are around 18-22 themselves I also don't really see how all of this relevant. Those kinds of idols are made to look like children/early teens. They're trying to appeal to men who are into children/early teens (look at the outfits and poses). Not men who are into women who look like children/early teens. The whole lolis and lolicons issue is about men who are into little girs, drawn or not. So all I have to say is, "if it looks like a child, it looks like a child". If you're into that, IDC but don't be surprised when people are suspicious of your interests. It is kind of an irrelevant question. I assume those men are sexually attracted to both (why else give them children school outfits and styles?), and the (Junior) Idol and loli culture have monetized it. Which is the issue people have. I don't know what 1000 y/o dragon lolis have to with all of this. Of course, in-universe they aren't children. Saying they are is disingenous. But they surely do look like children, and in some cases they act like it. Their designs aren't even different from anime where the girls are actually underage. |
|
| I love how your justification for a preschool kid being sexualised is "some adults look like teenagers". Find me an adult who looks and act like a 5 year old if you want to make that case. |
| Listen man, I'm not gonna tell you what to look at it or which characters to like. I just don't get when we have so many characters in anime, that, ya know, look like adults why you'd be insistent on needing to lewd the ones that look like children. I mean I've got my fair share of characters that look younger even in my favorites list, doesn't mean I wanna lewd em, and I don't really wanna see them used for fan service in the series. If they look like a child it doesn't make them a child it just makes me really uncomfortable personally. |
 |
Myherodeku said: Listen man, I'm not gonna tell you what to look at it or which characters to like. I just don't get when we have so many characters in anime, that, ya know, look like adults why you'd be insistent on needing to lewd the ones that look like children. I mean I've got my fair share of characters that look younger even in my favorites list, doesn't mean I wanna lewd em, and I don't really wanna see them used for fan service in the series. If they look like a child it doesn't make them a child it just makes me really uncomfortable personally. I think we're talking about real life, not about anime characters |
guych said: Myherodeku said: Listen man, I'm not gonna tell you what to look at it or which characters to like. I just don't get when we have so many characters in anime, that, ya know, look like adults why you'd be insistent on needing to lewd the ones that look like children. I mean I've got my fair share of characters that look younger even in my favorites list, doesn't mean I wanna lewd em, and I don't really wanna see them used for fan service in the series. If they look like a child it doesn't make them a child it just makes me really uncomfortable personally. I think we're talking about real life, not about anime characters I'm responding to the original post, not whatever it's devolved to since they used real people to justify looking at childlike characters in fiction. Though the same thing applies to real people as well. If you know the person in real life there are other reasons you could end up liking that person, but if you are following someone online because they look underage, then yeah, again it raises some concerns in my head. |
|
| Everything is fine as long as it´s fiction and stays at fiction. Most anime characters, lolis included, don´t resemble the real thing at all. Thinking everyone into that is some kind of pedo is stupid. On the other hand if you use lolis to fantasize about real children then yes, that´s weird. Same goes for the cosplayers or childlike adults, you can like them but if you are into that because of their resemblance to children then that´s when it gets problematic. |
 ✧ 미처 말하지 못했어 다만 너를 좋아했어 어린 날의 꿈처럼 마치 기적처럼 시간을 달려서 어른이 될 수만 있다면 거친 세상 속에서 손을 잡아줄게 ༉‧₊˚✧ ⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾ |
Kaasfondue said: Well sure I guess.Desolated said: We should be glad most people abide the law. So you think that there would be no difference whether the person is actually an early-mid teen vs if they're an adult who looks early-mid teen? You think that they won't be like, go for it if it's the latter and noped out of it if it's the former? It is kind of an irrelevant question. I assume those men are sexually attracted to both (why else give them children school outfits and styles?), and the (Junior) Idol and loli culture have monetized it. Which is the issue people have. I don't know what 1000 y/o dragon lolis have to with all of this. Of course, in-universe they aren't children. Saying they are is disingenous. But they surely do look like children, and in some cases they act like it. Their designs aren't even different from anime where the girls are actually underage. Well not sure about it but yes no cultures are exempt from any kinds of criticism, although the criticism thrown towards the culture can also be criticized as well. Yep, some of the characters only looks like children but doesn't really acts like one (e.g Shinobu from Monogatari), Some also acts like one (e.g Kanna Kamui from Dragon Maid), and I'd say that we shouldn't only using looks as the only parameters. |
|
| As someone who once knew a girl who looked 12 at 20, I can only offer her insight. And I quote "I'm tired of dating closeted pedophiles" |
 |
More topics from this board
» Love liveVapor_AU - 12 minutes ago |
0 |
by Vapor_AU
»»
12 minutes ago |
|
» Would your favorite non-anime characters survive in your favorite anime?FanofAction - 3 hours ago |
11 |
by FanofAction
»»
17 minutes ago |
|
» Post the Last Anime Items you bought ( 1 2 3 )SpeedyAlchemist - Mar 10 |
134 |
by Tropisch
»»
20 minutes ago |
|
» Most underrated anime you have seen?HotHamlet - May 13 |
45 |
by RantingMarauder
»»
21 minutes ago |
|
» Who is your Favorite Waifu in Pokémon? ( 1 2 )Jackof-allspades - May 26 |
60 |
by ParisPlayboy01
»»
29 minutes ago |