My Youth Romantic Comedy Is Wrong, As I Expected (light novel)
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Takuan_Soho said: I think people are really not understanding the meaning of this episode. While Sagami is definitely not someone I would personally like, and Haruno seemed mean, the person most in the wrong this episode was Yukino. Yukino is too arrogant. Part of this arrogance is that she is nearly perfect in every way and can do things far better than anyone else, but that doesn't justify how she acts. Part of it is that she believes she HAS to be perfect, and part of this is never apologizing. You are right, Yukino is far too arogant, she does know of her superiority and she often use it to make others look like fools. I really don't like that side of hers. In real life I hate those people that never apologize for their mistakes. But noone really cares they simply don't know how to do it - mainly because there weren't allowed any feelings in their family or it was looked upon it as a weakness. The thing is - those arogant people with sharp elbows who never surrender make their own place in real life pretty succesfully, they tend to push through their vision very fast and their worldview often works. Their persistence can draw many admirers to them but they also create many enemies who doesn't approve of this worldview. Often they have only one problem - that in the end this way of life doesn't make them happy. And Yukino seems to be such person. I don't approve Sagami but it is Yukino who should take lesson from this. And I guess her sister is there just for this reason. I sense some fighting and screaming that maybe happens on scene in next episode. Because until now, everyone hold their feelings under for now but this fake calmness is very unsustainable - everything's going to explode sooner or later. |
Mich666Jun 7, 2013 10:00 AM
| Yukino's really taking a hit. The fact she doesn't even try to talk to Hachiman is disappointing and this whole ordeal this episode, she brought it on herself. Don't know why she accepted the bitch's request after declining the position first. It's not cause she's having a fallout with Hachiman that she has to self destruct. Where's all that sas she had at the start of the series. Hachiman, love the guy and think he's one of the best MCs I've seen in a while but he should've manned up too and reprimanded Yukino. Takuan_Soho said: snip Don't see how you can defend Sagami. She's obviously a bitch whose trying to steal credit without putting in any effort. You don't volunteer for being the head of the committee if you aren't at least going to put in some effort which clearly she isn't doing. And her snide remark at Yui at the start of the episode was clearly to show what kind of character she is. |
Takuan_Soho said: Don't forget that Sagami only offered to become chairperson because everyone else turned it down. Remember Hachiman's remark about how a girl behaves in a different way when she truly rejects something? She might have planned to take the position from the start. It's obvious she's taken on the role in order to gather some fame points. There's no way someone like her would take on such a tedious task if she didn't profit from it. I mean just look at her. The way she does everything is just pure populism. Commending everyone for their work no matter how good or how bad it's done, Telling everyone to not work too hard. She's just making herself look good. Takuan_Soho said: Of course she was perfectly inadequate for the position and wanted to dump it on Yukino, but it isn't like Yukino had to accept. During the following meeting everyone had done their task and Sagami happily complimented their work, it was Yukino who belittled every single person's accomplishments.Who would the people here bashing Sagami truly want to volunteer to work with? Sagami who is easy to please and just wants a little attention, or the perfectionist Yukino? To be perfectly honest, I would try to not to have to work at all. I'm a half-assed person who couldn't care less about public events. There's no way in hell I'd enjoy helping to organize something that big. So when I notice that the person in charge is just as half-assed as myself, I'd mentally flip tables and I'd probably lose all respect of that person. I realize that praise is an important tool to keep the morale and motivation high. But when I know I've done a half-assed job and get praised for it, I'd go into pissed mode for being lied right into my face. Someone as pathetic and lazy as I has no right to command anyone. I'd rather put up with a naggy superior who at least does have the motivation and gets the work done properly. Takuan_Soho said: Would Yukino's suggestions make the event better, undoubtedly, but that really isn't the point of a school festival. Even if she wanted to put Sagami in her place, she didn't have to do so by making everyone else feel useless. You could go easy on your colleagues and mess up the event. They'd feel sad about their failure. Maybe they'll still like you since you were so nice to them. Maybe, however, they will stab you in the back and shove all the blame at you. Or you could work them to the bone and ensure they do their work properly, so that they could look back at it with pride and a sense of accomplishment, even though they'd still dislike you for being a slave driver. The choice is all yours. Mich666 said: You are right, Yukino is far too arogant, she does know of her superiority and she often use it to make others look like fools. I really don't like that side of hers. In real life I hate those people that never apologize for their mistakes. But noone really cares they simply don't know how to do it - mainly because there weren't allowed any feelings in their family or it was looked upon it as a weakness. A leader must not apologize. A leader is someone who is always right. Someone who must not be doubted. He must not question his own decisions publicly, he must never apologize publicly. If you waver, then so will your subjects. Morale will drop and your organization's order will be shaken. A leader must set an example for his followers. He must be a perfect figure, so that everyone will wish to become like him. That being said, all those things only apply in serious businesses (war for example). It's not something that would work in the high school society. |
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Naoki-Saten said: A leader must not apologize. A leader is someone who is always right. Someone who must not be doubted. He must not question his own decisions publicly, he must never apologize publicly. If you waver, then so will your subjects. Morale will drop and your organization's order will be shaken. A leader must set an example for his followers. He must be a perfect figure, so that everyone will wish to become like him. That being said, all those things only apply in serious businesses (war for example). It's not something that would work in the high school society. Yeah, I know. But that doesn't change the fact that she was educated in such way, as possible heir of their empire. And that's something that gotta leave a mark. Kinda remind me of Kanata from previously mentioned Little Busters. But Yukino at least tried to apologize twice already (and both times she was interrupted) and even that counts. She's not bad person she only tries too hard to be perfect (and sometimes she is doing that at expense of others). I am really looking forward to explanation of her relation with her sister and mother. |
Andyis said: You read my mind!!! Then you could be like *shrug* "What i can say, I guess chairman suitable for this" Total humiliation in front of whole school...I would just ditch. there's no point in even trying with that lame-ass chairman. seriouslypisses me off |
| Each day I dislike more Yukinoshita older sister. And that Sagami is one of the worst characters ever. |
Takuan_Soho said: Sagami is not a bitch, she is too small to be a bitch. Sagami is the slightly above average person with above average looks who for the first time in her life is learning that she really isn't that special. The "snide" remark to Yui is mere jealousy that her former friend has moved on to bigger and better things, leaving her behind. It is so far below the standard of being a "bitch", that to call her one would be a compliment to her. You must be quite the optimist, interpreting so many nice things into Sagami's actions. First off, the term 'Bitch' has many meanings, so it's no wonder you misunderstood. 1. Bitch - a school girl who's loose with boys and uses her looks to her advantage (often used by japanese teenagers. Remember how Hikki called Yui a Bitch back in ep1) 2. Bitch - or slut, pretty much the adult version of the explanation above. 3. Bitch - a bad person, not neccessarily female. Someone who does or says bad things, is being mean or 'bitches around' etc. Example: 'Life is a bitch' Mugiwara probably meant version 1 and/or 3 whereas you were referring to 2. Secondly, Sagami is not 'learning' that she isn't special. She isn't learning at all. Cause she isn't even trying. She volunteered for the position to gather fame points, then dumped all the work on Yukino while she herself is only ever chatting away in the classroom with her gang and doesn't lift a finger. She didn't seek help because she realized it's too much for her. She just wanted someone else to do ALL the work for her. Notice the "I'm making fun of you" face of Sidekick A and Sidekick B as well as Sagami herself. The remark towards Yui had nothing to do with jealousy or 'not moving on'. Hachiman pointed it out in ep9. Sagami is totally looking down on him. If men were status symbols, Hayato would be a sports car while Hachiman is just some cheap old second-hand car. Sagami just wanted to show everyone how poor Yui's taste is, mocking her. To be clear Sagami's great failure wasn't asking for Yukino's help in the first place or even in how she asked, but rather not being able to stop Yukino from taking over. Had she done that (she tried, but failed) she would have been a great leader despite her being a normal, somewhat petty sixteen year old girl. Way too optimistic. Sagami's failure was her failure as a human being. She volunteered for a position that would bring her fame yet she never intended to even lift a finger. She messed things up by telling everyone to "slow down" and slack off. Well, she did get a popularity bonus for that. She tried and failed? Where do you see her actually do any kind of work? All she ever did was offer people some hollow praise, never actually contributing to the cause. She gets 'held up in class', arrives shortly before the bell rings and leaves soon after. |
Naoki-SatenJun 7, 2013 12:47 PM
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| All>Sagami Really, she pisses me off x.x. Poor Yukino. :( |
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| While you're arguing who is right,you ignore the fact that Hikki has become how he is today because of Sagami.She is the type of person with 2 or many more faces,I'd say many split personalities while Yukino is one person,one personality.I'd rather have a friend arrogant(which is what I hate the most at someone) than one with many personalities/faces. Also note that Sagami called for Yukino's help because she KNEW that Yukino will do all the work and better than her.It is a sign that they had a past,and it is certain that they had a past because she,Sagami,liked Hayaman but Hayaman was most likely running after Yukino and because of that Sagami played tricks on her,bullies her and from there the same experience as Hikki Yukino had. The person in common that triggered Hikkis and Yukinos personalities is Sagami. |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
| Just for clarification, Hikigaya made himself the bad guy by saying that the people who offloaded their work onto them are also doing something similar to Hayama's and the president's advice to Yukino, right? |
HappilyBelated said: Just for clarification, Hikigaya made himself the bad guy by saying that the people who offloaded their work onto them are also doing something similar to Hayama's and the president's advice to Yukino, right? It was more like "it's not fair, just helping her. People are dumping their work on me too." Only he did it in a meaner way, which is to say that "people have dumped their work on me, I can't abide seeing someone elses' load lighten," which is why Hayama replied that he would help with Hikigaya's work, too. It's a very spiteful sort of thing: if I must suffer, then you must suffer. This let Yukino issue a more general redistribution of the workloads rather than having to accept help. |
CNagy said: It was more like "it's not fair, just helping her. People are dumping their work on me too." Only he did it in a meaner way, which is to say that "people have dumped their work on me, I can't abide seeing someone elses' load lighten," which is why Hayama replied that he would help with Hikigaya's work, too. It's a very spiteful sort of thing: if I must suffer, then you must suffer. This let Yukino issue a more general redistribution of the workloads rather than having to accept help. Okay, that makes sense. Thanks. |
| Sagami is a familiar type; she is a ladder climber. She is very social status conscious and intent in improving her own status in the hierarchy. She has her own clique in the class, and then she quickly creates another clique in the committee. She might be more pleasant to work under, as she has low expectations to go with her own abilities, but the only reason she "non-rejected" the committee position was because Hayama and Tobe (but mostly Hayama) praised her as popular and having leadership qualities. The only reason she volunteered to be the committee chairman was because it makes her look better. Sadly, she's not very good at the game she is playing. She openly shirks her responsibilities as the chairman (given the excuse to by Haruno who, let's face it, doesn't breathe without an ulterior motive) and handed off her personal stamp to Yukino (seals have a very deep significance, handing one away is like a lord vesting all of his authority in an adviser.) She's not really positioning herself well to take any credit, and she's not popular enough to escape criticism if things do not go well. |
| Yukino is not breaking her character and neither is Hachiman. He does stand up for his way of life and speaking up for Yukino was just that. Other than the tension built up, nothing really happened in terms of character development. Still enjoyed it but it was a little slow |
| -Nothing can stay unchanged. Even so, can you still keep on loving this place? -Be still my soul; when change and tears are past, all safe and blessed we shall meet at last. |
| I can't decide whether this show is just over my head or unnecessarily complicated or I simply don't relate to anything on-screen. It feels like a story I should be enjoying... but I'm not. Maybe the show was aimed at a specific demographic, IDK because I'm obviously not in it =/ :( Also, and maybe because I'm not "getting it", it feels like you guys are giving way too much credit to the writers by justifying and extrapolating plot points, character traits and intent(s). |
| "Seize the time, Meribor - live now! Make now always the most precious time. Now will never come again." - Captain Jean-Luc Picard. |
| Damn this was a tense episode. What's great about this show is how every character is flawed, and how when a problem arises, no one goes about it the right way. Sagami's a lazy bitch, Yukinon's arrogance and sense of pride cause her to self-destruct, her sister's methods of teaching things to Yukinon cause her to suffer, and Hachiman's doesn't know how to voice his true opinions clearly enough without making himself look like a bad guy. Hayama had the right idea as well, but his position didn't really give him enough power to change things. It'll be interesting to see what happens next episode and who'll step up to the plate now that Yuki's sick. |
| A match made in heaven set the fires in hell |
| Man Yukino is just off when she feels guilty about what she did to Hikigaya, once they amend things (if ever) then it'll be back to the typical quirky remarks. |
| You may read this quote , "However, by that point you'll have been torn to pieces." |
Takuan_Soho said: I answered the first one above (we can't trust Hachiman when he talks about himself). As for Sagami having multiple faces, I mean really? Please, she is just an average 16 year girl. She wants to be liked, she wants to be flattered, you all are acting like she is some master manipulator. She's not that smart. As for Sagami and Yukino. Do you honestly think that Yukino is unaware of things, or that the council doesn't know that Yukino is the brains of the operation? Please. Yukino could crush Sagami like a bug, she just isn't worth the effort. Haruno instantly knew how to control Sagami. The funny thing is that IF Sagami did pull off having Yukino really "run" things, she actually would have deserved credit because not even the former Inchou could get Yukino to do this. That's the irony of the situation. I apologize for going on about this at length, but I think it is important because I think this shows how clever the writer and this show really are. There is some extremely good shading and interpersonal interaction here that I am trying (and maybe failing) to point out. We can trust Hachiman when he talks about his own status, because we can see that status reflected in how other people in the class react to him ("Who is that?") We can see it in this very episode, where the guy with the glasses is trying to get a female representative for the committee and says something to the effect of "the job isn't hard as long as you don't go wild, but the girl's rep might end up with more trouble than they bargained for," cut to Hachiman. Regarding Yukino, it's not about people being aware that she is more capable. Everyone knows she is more capable. But since she declined the position of chairman, it was unseemly the way that she then proceeded to run things as if she were the chairman, speaking over Sagami almost to the point of bullying her into agreement. It was uncomfortable for everyone. If Sagami had ridden that wave, though, she would have gotten credit for how well she managed an overbearing Yukino and how well the festival turned out. Frankly, I think that might be why Haruno gave her the push she needed to shirk her responsibilities entirely. |
Takuan_Soho said: BloodyNightsky said: While you're arguing who is right,you ignore the fact that Hikki has become how he is today because of Sagami.She is the type of person with 2 or many more faces,I'd say many split personalities while Yukino is one person,one personality.I'd rather have a friend arrogant(which is what I hate the most at someone) than one with many personalities/faces. Also note that Sagami called for Yukino's help because she KNEW that Yukino will do all the work and better than her.It is a sign that they had a past,and it is certain that they had a past because she,Sagami,liked Hayaman but Hayaman was most likely running after Yukino and because of that Sagami played tricks on her,bullies her and from there the same experience as Hikki Yukino had. The person in common that triggered Hikkis and Yukinos personalities is Sagami. I answered the first one above (we can't trust Hachiman when he talks about himself). As for Sagami having multiple faces, I mean really? Please, she is just an average 16 year girl. She wants to be liked, she wants to be flattered, you all are acting like she is some master manipulator. She's not that smart. As for Sagami and Yukino. Do you honestly think that Yukino is unaware of things, or that the council doesn't know that Yukino is the brains of the operation? Please. Yukino could crush Sagami like a bug, she just isn't worth the effort. Haruno instantly knew how to control Sagami. The funny thing is that IF Sagami did pull off having Yukino really "run" things, she actually would have deserved credit because not even the former Inchou could get Yukino to do this. That's the irony of the situation. I apologize for going on about this at length, but I think it is important because I think this shows how clever the writer and this show really are. There is some extremely good shading and interpersonal interaction here that I am trying (and maybe failing) to point out. I dont see where I'm hating her or I care about her to hate her......to have an emotion directed to someone or something,doesnt matter what or who,it means you care about it.I stated before I barely noticed her.What I did in the post you quoted is to point out the origins of theyr experience which is Sagami. Also,while we are at it,a girl of the kind you think Sagami is,and while you find it normal,which I BARELY to NONE found girls like her,it shows how bad a person is.It is worser to damage someone because you are that way than damage someone on purpose.Damaging someone on purpose means you controll the degree of the damage while doing it because you're that way it's a life changing damage,which is shown in this anime. Now,cut me some slack,I dont care about Sagami,she's just the center of the reasons that made Yukino and Hikki be how they are today.Just because I type down a name it doesnt mean I care about that person enough to hate or have anykind of emotions towards that person. And I repeat,to have emotions for someone it means you care about that person,no matter if its envy,hatred or w/e emotion you want to throw in there.If you DONT care about that person,you feel nothing,that person is unimportant,the existence of that person doesnt affect you in no way,shape or form. |
FluffyFleshJun 7, 2013 3:23 PM
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
Takuan_Soho said: Fame? This is a school festival we are talking about, not the invasion of Normandy. She volunteered for a thankless position that no one wanted. As for "not lifting a finger", she was smart enough to get Yukino to help, even after Yukino turned down the position. As for "messing" up, where did we see evidence of that? Again, we don't know that what the council had done was inadequate, all we do know was that it wasn't up to Yukino's level. But then again who is? It certainly does not compare to the invasion of Normandy, but getting in that position has 2 benefits: You'll get popular among the people on the comitee and if you do exceptionally well, just like Haruno did (as the student council president pointed out), you'll be remembered for having organized a very successfull event. And, oh, she messed up big time. It has nothing to do with the studen council doing something inadequate or not. The point is: Things were going well. Everything was going according to schedule. BUT Sagami wanted to make herself more popular, so she proposed that everyone should slack off. And that's why, I assume it's a few days later, work piled up sky high. "Maybe I should've shot down Sagami's idea back then. Sorry. Looks like we won't make it unless everyone here shares the workload." Takuan_Soho said: She at least confronted Yukino after Yukino had gone perfectionist and tried to rein her in. Even the previous inchou wouldn't do that and left it to Sagami. Again go back and watch when Yukino blasts everyone during the meeting. Look at their faces, including the teacher's face, look at the former Inchou's face when she tried to soften what Yukino said and Yukino nailed her for it, look at 8man's face, even he knows it. Think about the comments that Yukino made, would that really improve the festival for the students? In short stop for a second, stop identifying with Yukino and thinking about the mean girls you went to school with, and just watch. Everyone had been crushed, no one dared to raise their voice in protest, at least Sagami, for all her obvious faults, tried. Again this isn't to build Sagami up or to defend her. Her faults are there to see, but in comparison to the cowardice and apathy of the rest of the council, she is by far not the worse character there. I'm not sure which scene you are referring to. If it's the scene where the groups reported about their status, then they did seem surprised in the beginning, when Yukino interjected and issued additional commands. BUT that's all there was to it. They were surprised for a short while. They didn't feel like they were being blasted. In fact, there was clearly "Yukinoshita-san is amazing", "Just what you'd expect from Haru's sister" and "Yukinoshita should just be the chairman". In case you misinterpreted it somehow, they're actually PRAISING her! So, because Yukino got all the praise, Sagami decided to harvest some of it as well, thus the second scene where she proposed to slack off while Yukinoshita tried to cut her off - and failed to do so because Haruno butted in. How is that blasting and crushing everyone? And how is Sagami standing up to Yukino? She's just trying to push her own agenda through. And she wouldn't do even that if Haruno didn't support her. It's not like I'm bashing Sagami or anything but I find your overly optimistic regards of her... way too optimistic. |
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| @Takuan_Soho I started making a long reply to your post, but I realized early in it that you post annoyingly. Do not vaguely refer to the things you feel support your argument; state them plainly and let the evidence support your argument. Asking questions and referring to scenes without elaboration is for professors, and I will not interact with you in that manner. |
| I really dont get the big deal with Sagami debate.When I heard "Sagami bla bla is a bitch for doing bla bla" I expected to make me hate her like I hate Makoto but I barely noticed her.It just reminded me that she's the girl Hikki had a sad experience with and after that I connected some links and resulted in that Yukino's story and Hikki's are directly linked. |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
BloodyNightsky said: I really dont get the big deal with Sagami debate.When I heard "Sagami bla bla is a bitch for doing bla bla" I expected to make me hate her like I hate Makoto but I barely noticed her.It just reminded me that she's the girl Hikki had a sad experience with and after that I connected some links and resulted in that Yukino's story and Hikki's are directly linked. Weren't you a bit too hasty in connecting those links? I don't think any of the girls from Hikigaya's past have made an appearance, or ever will. Though the girl from the flashback looks similar to Sagami, I doubt it's her. Some people do look similar in this series. For an instance, back in Episode 1, I wondered if Shizuka and Yukino are somehow related by blood. |
Naoki-SatenJun 7, 2013 4:12 PM
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| Nope,it's definetly her.Look back at episode 9 when Yui and Hikki met with her and her friends.Hikki is very familiar to her.I didnt base on the looks but on how Hikki reacted about her in episode 9 and later in episode 10 how Hayaman,Yukino and Sagami acted. Hikki wouldnt act that way if she wasnt the very same girl he talked about regarding bad experiences. |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
| I think Haruno isn't a bad person like what the haters think she is imho.. On the other hand, Sagami is the real bitch here, ditched all her works and leaved em all to Yukino because she felt inferior to her. Let's hope she get some "slap" next week. |
| Keep moving forward |
| Yeah,mapodoufu is kinda right about that regarding the edit.I didnt particulary enjoyed,I actually suffered at the point I turned out like Hikki in many ways.After you turn that way,you are too afraid to change because you'll be exposed to suffer the same experiences that turned you the way you are.So basically instead of trying to change,which is an optimistic thought(that if you change everything will be alright) which totally contradicts a realistic thought and total opposite to pesimistic thoughts. |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
mapodoufu said: He DOESN'T pride himself in sacrificing his social position. The flipping point is his social life/status is so non-existent he is merely backing his opinion with the stance that his social status can not go any lower because hes already a loner. But you can easily tell even this self created idea of not going any lower doesn't hold, and see, saying it still makes him feel extremely uncomfortable and awkward by his cringe-worthy facial expression when he did his little monologue in class ("your horrible") further showing his social awkwardness I think it's just because Hachiman isn't used to making a speech in front of many unfamiliar people while everyone's eyes are at him. Cause loners don't usually do such things. Another example would be when he tried to defend Yui in front of Miura but then got her death glare. It's not like he was afraid of his status sinking. She was just being scary at that moment. Just as Yukino was in ep 1. Anyways, I doubt it's about his social status. |
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| This episode gives me THAT FEEL! When your incompetent workmates ditches their part of the job and causing everyone workload to increase. |
| The most important things in life is the people that you care about |
| Yukino overworked herself and got sick. With Yukino being absent the festival is gonna be a disaster for sure, because Sagami won't be able to handle the responsibility and she has probably no idea how hard it is to organize such a big event. I hope things are turning out well next episode. Hachiman has to help out again! I can't help but get the feeling that Yukino's sister is just trying to screw her over. |
| Haruno is just acting like the little sister a brother can have.She sees Yukino is sticking to her plan which she,Haruno,failed to do so.Here comes the little sister part.If she couldnt do it then she will make sure nor Yukino will.It's envy.Nothing wrong in being perfectionist.Also Yukino picked the right position,because a perfectionist has the perfect values a lider should have but not the atitude,a perfectionist is 2nd in command. Haruno is just acting like a prick,not even near to help her.I had seen the scenario,I've been involved into such a scenario,being a friend of a brother.Her sister basically made his life a hell just to ruin his plans because she cant.She is 15,he is 21 like me. WingsOfValor said: Yukino overworked herself and got sick. With Yukino being absent the festival is gonna be a disaster for sure, because Sagami won't be able to handle the responsibility and she has probably no idea how hard it is to organize such a big event. I hope things are turning out well next episode. Hachiman has to help out again! I can't help but get the feeling that Yukino's sister is just trying to screw her over. Being overworked for a perfectionist equals to satisfaction.It means she did everything she could,that,for a perfectionist is like a present.Also a perfectionist's missing leaves a huge whole.A perfectionist is what every group should want,because he is pushing people from theyr back,make them competitive and teach them how good it feels to do things right and up to the end. For instance,I used to overwork myself with running around the pitch when I was playing football/soccer and damn it felt good to run untill you got tired and you felt your feet on fire.Better than an e....tion. |
FluffyFleshJun 7, 2013 4:54 PM
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
| Man that Sagami chairman pissed me off. She let Yukinon's sister in on their school festival. There is a reason why Yukinon doesn't want to her sister around. WTH being late for committee and goofing off with your friends. Lazy person!!! Yukinon should be chairman. Hachiman with another of his thought provoking speeches. Now she is "sick" 0__0 |
Takuan_Soho said: Let me ask a question. Lets forget what we know about Yukino and just focus on how she acts, her attitude. Are perfectionists usually liked? Do perfectionists make good leaders? Perfectionists aren't usually liked. It's because they demand a lot from everyone. They don't make good leaders either because the morale will go down due to everyone else not being able to keep up with a perfectionist's pace. However, my point is that I would still prefer a perfectionist over a hypocrite. While the hypocrite only ever thinks about what other people think of him, thus spouting lies and shallow praises, all while messing up the task (which he doesn't care about), the perfectionist states the facts and says what needs to be done and therefore gets the work done. While the hypocrite shoves his work onto others, the perfectionist works just as much as he expects others to work. Do you understand? Perfectionists are sincere. They don't demand you to do more than they themselves would be prepared to do if need be. Their standards are high but they do live up to their own standards. Of course hypocrites are more liked than perfectionists. That doesn't make them better people though -_- Takuan_Soho said: Go back and watch the episode from 11:35 or so to the break. In particular watch the expression on the teacher's face and on hachiman's face. Listen to the tone of the people responding, not their words. Then watch from 14:23, look at the faces of the students looking in. Do they look happy? Like things are going well? Why do you think that the vice president called in Haruno if she thought that Yukino was doing so well? If Yukino was "really just like her sister" then they wouldn't have needed the sister. Listen to the excuse the Inchou gave to Yukino as to why, and watch Yukino's reaction. She was mad because SHE understood why the inchou called her sister. Sorry, all I see is the normal students being surprised. Actually, those gazes can be interpreted in many different ways. Apart from your interpretations, they could simply be stupified, thinking "so that how it's really done". Also, I interpret Hachiman's and Shizuka-Sensei's stares as "Yukinoshita is getting into trouble again." She's showing her brilliance, thus inviting envy. Everyone was praising Yukino while Sakagami feels humiliated. That's how it was in the past. Yukino stood out, was envied and thus bullied. Also, saying that Student council president called in Haruno because she thought Yukino was doing something wrong is overinterpreted. If you don't trust her words, look at her face. Does this face look like something's being done wrong? The reason she brought in haruno is because she's pretty much her biggest fan. The reason Yukino was pissed is because she can't deal with her older sister and she doesn't want her to butt in on her business (which indeed happened). She doesn't want to feel like a little kid who still needs to be taken care of by their older sibling. Takuan_Soho said: This gets to the root of Yukino's issue with her sister. Yukino is disappointed in her sister because her sister has stopped trying to be the perfect daughter of her parents. Yukino idolized her sister and in her disappointment is now trying to become the "perfect" person she wanted her sister to be. So for the inchou to invite her sister in was for Yukino a double insult (though of course the inchou didn't know she had stepped on a landmine). Haruno knows this, which is why it drives her crazy when she thinks that Yukino is copying her (like wanting to go to the same school). She knows why Yukino is so mad at her here, and the whole exchange from there is part of this conflict. Yukino trying to be the perfect person doing everything and Haruno trying to get Yukino to realize that perfection is not the goal, its a hindrance. Wait wait wait wait wait, hold it for a friggin second. Yukino being disappointed in her big sister because she's not trying to be the perfect child anymore? Trying to be perfect instead? Dude, that's not even overinterpreting anymore. It's like you're writing a whole different story. |
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| I think there are four characters who actually have a good read of the situation: Yukino who knows what is going on, but for whatever reason can't interrupt the train wreck that her sister has set up. Haru, who knows very well what she is doing to her sister. Hachiman, who is observing and analyzing the interactions and acts to prevent Yukino from having to make a no-win response. And possibly Hayama, who seems to be a lot more aware and well-intentioned than the usual school prince. As for some of the others like Sagami, I'll cut them some slack--they're young and they might grab a clue in another few years. If they don't, most of the others will and will recognize that if you want leadership you go for Yukino or Hayama who are actually invested in the project. In my circles we usually talk about leadership teams, rather than individual leaders these days. A really strong team would be Hayama as the leader, Yukino as the administrator, and Hachi as the analyst. |
rodacJun 7, 2013 6:21 PM
Please don't feed the trolls! In my next life I want to collide at the corner with the cute transfer student carrying a piece of toast in her mouth...rodac |
| The sister is probably the most interesting character thus far. From what I can tell she's giving her younger sister a bit of tough love. And I love it! She's the manipulative bitch that you hate but can't help love because she clearly has a good head on her shoulders -- she's clearly as smart as Yukino. |
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| To all these 'self proclaimed loners', you are just enjoying a period of pseudo intelligence. Been there, done that. You'll get over it. And that's when you'll get your life in motion (i.e. a job, a lover, some friends, and an apartment). Good luck young bloods. Life is too short for cynicism and drowning in your philosophical drivel. I've just bloomed. |
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| I think the case is that Haruno is misunderstanding Yukino. In the first place, even if you are the sister, best friend, or lover, there's no way you can tell what the person really feels. The best you can know is their character and capabilities. You won't really know unless that person clearly tells it to you, but many times a message can also be misinterpreted. There's really no definite way to know what and how a person feels unless you are that person. I believe Haruno is thinking that Yukino is trying her hard to be like her but is coming in short all the time. That's why she wants to support Yukino with all her might. The problem is, what if Yukino wasn't trying to be like Haruno in the first place? What if it just so happened that she also wanted the same course that Haruno is taking regardless of whether Haruno was taking it or not? What if while Yukino might have wanted to do things her way, the people just kept pushing their expectations that she was Haruno's sister? That since Haruno did it this way or that way and it was effective, that Yukino should also do it? And if Yukino says otherwise, they'd say she's being selfish and not as good as her sister? Yukinoshita Yukino is talented, honest, and righteous. Those are her selling points as a character in this series. However, having those traits doesn't mean you can push your thoughts into others even if you know it's right. Most of the time, people don't "think". As long as the records say, or majority says, or experts say that it's the answer, you would faithfully think it's correct (well, nothing less from the power of faith). Those who say otherwise are wrong, unless they actually prove otherwise (which is why many great people were persecuted when they were alive but are praised after they prove the people wrong). Since Yukino's method is not recognized, she is rejected. Simply because what she thinks is logically right isn't what others think is right, they force her to do it their way. Problem is, you can't work with your optimal efficiency if you yourself don't think the method you're doing it is right. Yukino gets sick. Now, people will panic and blame her if the cultural festival fails. The only character in the series who can probably realize this is no other than Hikki. Hence, only Hikigaya can help her. |
| Nice episode. Not as enjoyable as the previous ones though since this mostly had a serious atmosphere... Well, looks like things are going to get more interesting next ep. |
Kurogashi said: To all these 'self proclaimed loners', you are just enjoying a period of pseudo intelligence. Been there, done that. You'll get over it. And that's when you'll get your life in motion (i.e. a job, a lover, some friends, and an apartment). Good luck young bloods. Life is too short for cynicism and drowning in your philosophical drivel. I've just bloomed. You're pointing at someone that doesnt plan to have a kid and doesnt plan to marry.So far I'm still myself faking that I'm social while at work.Unless I get drunk,enough to shake my mind a little,you wont see me as a person that entertains the atmosphere or talk too much. Oh,I highly doubt Haruno is doing that for Yukino,if Yui havent told Haruno,by accident,what Yukino is planning you wouldnt see her doing that.Also note that Hikki kinda read what kind of person Haruno is when him and Yukino were dating.Haruno simply doesnt want Yukino to be better than her,simple as that.A mother that is being harsh,by the description so far,will most likely treat Yukino and Haruno different,being treated differently Haruno build some some hatred.She is plain mean and no tough love as some of you suggest.That's happening,usually,in a family where the mom is that way.As for her being sick,I bet Haruno lied to theyr mother and kept her home. If Haruno would want to give her "tough" love it wouldnt have picked the weakest person of that board.If she knew her sister,I repeat,she wouldnt have picked a person that can easily be destroyed. Also to point out the whole harsh mom thing: "Why can't you be like your younger sister?","Why cant you be as good as her?". This kind of things.When you hear that,being like Haruno,you'll do what she does. |
FluffyFleshJun 8, 2013 12:34 AM
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
Kurogashi said: To all these 'self proclaimed loners', you are just enjoying a period of pseudo intelligence. Been there, done that. You'll get over it. And that's when you'll get your life in motion (i.e. a job, a lover, some friends, and an apartment). Good luck young bloods. Life is too short for cynicism and drowning in your philosophical drivel. I've just bloomed. Not exactly, although I do agree there are several people that have to use that reason as a coping mechanism. I love being with my friends, it's the best, but being around people is extremely tiring. After a long day among people I need to be alone for a while to recharge. Coming home every day and having to be among people all the time (for instance, marriage), personally, I'd die. Not every one's cut out for that life. |
BloodyNightsky said: Oh,I highly doubt Haruno is doing that for Yukino,if Yui havent told Haruno,by accident,what Yukino is planning you wouldnt see her doing that.Also note that Hikki kinda read what kind of person Haruno is when him and Yukino were dating.Haruno simply doesnt want Yukino to be better than her,simple as that.A mother that is being harsh,by the description so far,will most likely treat Yukino and Haruno different,being treated differently Haruno build some some hatred.She is plain mean and no tough love as some of you suggest.That's happening,usually,in a family where the mom is that way.As for her being sick,I bet Haruno lied to theyr mother and kept her home. If Haruno would want to give her "tough" love it wouldnt have picked the weakest person of that board.If she knew her sister,I repeat,she wouldnt have picked a person that can easily be destroyed. Also to point out the whole harsh mom thing: "Why can't you be like your younger sister?","Why cant you be as good as her?". This kind of things.When you hear that,being like Haruno,you'll do what she does. You compare the situation to your own or your friend's circumstances. I doubt that's the case. I suspect that Haruno was planning to make both Sagami and Yukino self-destruct. Having Sagami slack off by 'approving' of such unproductive attitude, thus having everyone turn on her when the boat sinks. Also, she predicted that the perfectionist Yukino will try to make all the work by herself, thus overworking herself and crash... which is pretty much what happened. So now Sagami will get the shitstorm while Yukino will have to learn that it's physically impossible to do everything by herself. Since Haruno is 'perfect' herself, she is well aware of the mistakes Yukino might make. As her sister, she tries to teach her how to live a more enjoyable life. |
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If Hachiman was against it I'm sure he would have protested. I kind of suspect Hachiman knows what Haruno is trying to do - I'm willing to even bet that Hachiman would have done the same thing if he was required to do so. I'm thinking that Hachiman will act as Yukino's cushion/buffer (damage control) to prevent it from blowing up badly for the remainder of this School Festival arc. Furthermore I think Hiratsuka also knows the kind of character Haruno is and can be...could she have foreseen Yukino's participation in the committee and Haruno's eventual involvement and therefore sent Hachiman in as precaution? |
NanoNanoJun 8, 2013 2:15 AM
Naoki-Saten said: BloodyNightsky said: Oh,I highly doubt Haruno is doing that for Yukino,if Yui havent told Haruno,by accident,what Yukino is planning you wouldnt see her doing that.Also note that Hikki kinda read what kind of person Haruno is when him and Yukino were dating.Haruno simply doesnt want Yukino to be better than her,simple as that.A mother that is being harsh,by the description so far,will most likely treat Yukino and Haruno different,being treated differently Haruno build some some hatred.She is plain mean and no tough love as some of you suggest.That's happening,usually,in a family where the mom is that way.As for her being sick,I bet Haruno lied to theyr mother and kept her home. If Haruno would want to give her "tough" love it wouldnt have picked the weakest person of that board.If she knew her sister,I repeat,she wouldnt have picked a person that can easily be destroyed. Also to point out the whole harsh mom thing: "Why can't you be like your younger sister?","Why cant you be as good as her?". This kind of things.When you hear that,being like Haruno,you'll do what she does. You compare the situation to your own or your friend's circumstances. I doubt that's the case. I suspect that Haruno was planning to make both Sagami and Yukino self-destruct. Having Sagami slack off by 'approving' of such unproductive attitude, thus having everyone turn on her when the boat sinks. Also, she predicted that the perfectionist Yukino will try to make all the work by herself, thus overworking herself and crash... which is pretty much what happened. So now Sagami will get the shitstorm while Yukino will have to learn that it's physically impossible to do everything by herself. Since Haruno is 'perfect' herself, she is well aware of the mistakes Yukino might make. As her sister, she tries to teach her how to live a more enjoyable life. Seems right.I usually tend to go to extreme with the reasoning when comes to these kind of things,but I end up with a "middle" conclusion.But I find it alright since these are only guesses and we all are guessing what will happen most likely. |
| "Love is a drug to our brain , it stops the thinking function and when you realize it wether you acomplish it or not you'll enter in one of the 3 withdrawal states : happy , sad or anger. Once this drug gets hold of you you'd better be prepaired beforehand." - Me |
| I'm liking this anime more and more. The characters are well written and their motivations and actions have more depth to them than in your standard school romance story. The sister in particular is hard to read. I don't know if she's trying in her own way to help Yukino or if she's trying to put her down due to sibling rivalry. Hayama is another character that I don't have a handle on. I normally hate goodie doers like him, since many of them are hypocrites, but so far he really hasn't done anything to show that he's not a genuinely decent and reliable person. |
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