Makoto Question

Author made several statements on social media, that the story is not about gender identity but gender norms. He likes cute things and at no points is questioning his own gender identity.

Yeah, please keep avoiding my comments.

It’s spelled out clearly in ep 1 and 2 that he just loves cute things, his gender identity is irrelevant. I sympathise to be honest, I never see the same choice of colourful trainers in the men’s section as the ladies/ girls. And sadly I’m size 12 UK so I can’t buy from the female section.

It is not I who went full westerner Twitterian mode, so not really. Author is not a westerner, so this gender stuff is not the only thing they have on their mind and definitely doesn carter to this group, nor they have to. Assuming that they need to make Makoto a certain gender just because of one character trait usually associated with certain gender is everything the message of this show is against and by saying that you're no better than Makoto's mother.

You don’t get it do you? The whole point of the story, That tastes don’t need to be linked to gender. His tastes have been shown, but his gender identity has not yet been revealed or explored. He just enjoys the clothing options available to females. Gender identity is so far irrelevant.

Assuming that someone has to identify as certain gender just because they like things commonly associated with certain gender is literally everything this show's message is against.
You have the exact same mentality like Makoto's mother with the only difference being on the other side of radical spectrum.
How is she worse person for refusing her son access to cute things, than someone encouraging Makoto into transitioning?

@Piromysl Stop drinking that red pill Koolaid, bud. There's more than enough context so far to support a potential trans interpretation of the character, you're just as bigoted as the people you seem to despise if you're not even willing to accept that much. These are not mutually exclusive concepts, crossover can exist. Not once have I said he IS trans, you're misgendering him, or any other sort of fearmongering that's spinning around in that head of yours. My only argument is that it's entirely possible someone like Makoto could be trans, given the context of the story, hence why I said it's undetermined. The rest of you are the ones that are closeminded to any other perspectives, not me.

Like, if you think it's impossible that someone who seems more comfortable presenting as female could be trans, don't know what to tell you.

Give me a little context here, what do you think of transgender people? Do you think it's a real thing or just mental illness?

@LostSpectre Yeah, I'm bigoted because I don't drag my fetish into this show and don't want it to descend into souless, western shlock. Totally.
Like, I don't even know what else author could have present to us in order to convey, that Makoto is NOT trans and does not doubt his gender identity.
And if you see someone who likes cute things, immediately think that they may be trans, then I don't know what to tell you.
But it's not like someone did not had similar opinion before.

And not falling for that "gotcha" question. Don't bother. We are talking about anime, not real life.

@Piromysl I'll just go back to an earlier comment, transgender people and femboys can both exist, bro. It's weird hating one and loving the other.

Also, not sure why you think that Japanese people are somehow incapable of writing about this subject.

Oh, and no "gotcha" buddy, a genuine question to gauge your stance, because it's relevant to the topic.

@LostSpectre And my point is, that unlike westerners, they are capable of writing something else.
And don't even try to give me BS that it's not true, because we all know, that even if they would try to make a male character that shows even the slightest sign of lower testosterone, they would be immediately bullied by Those People into making them trans. Femboys do not exist in western media, while in Japan they still do and people who say stuff like you did want to erase them. They already managed to erase Bridget and definitely won't stop at just him. There are already people on X, who aggressively push the false narrative, that Makoto is actually trans and even try to gaslight people, that "otokonoko" is a slur. Not even joking.



There are several amazing trans characters, like Ryuuji from Blue Period or Nao from Skip to Loafer. 👍
I'd say that Japanese are actually better at writing them, than westerners are.

@Piromysl This just tells me your actions are a reaction to those groups, not that you're actually thinking for yourself. Look at how upset your getting because even the possibility of a character being trans in a form of Japanese media might impact the actions/beliefs of the group you oppose. This no longer has anything to do with a critical examination of the work itself, it just comes down to politics and an "us or them" mentality. The problem with being against "woke" content is that you're inevitably drawing the line against all forms of "progressive" content, even the ones that are genuine and not forced to meet a diversity quota, etc. and to be clear we're not talking about just anime anymore.

It's interesting you bring up Ryuuji because I wasn't under the impression they were (canon) trans, unless it happened later in the manga.

@LostSpectre No, not really. I don't dislike the possibility of Makoto being trans by itself, but yours insistence.
And you're kinda right. I'm not really falling for your "be open minded" argument and I don't belive it was made in good faith. Those People are already trying to pollute anime and this slippery slope went too far.
And I don't really mind "progressive" content, but leftist political propaganda poorly disguised as entertainment, which is what "wokeness" is.

@Piromysl Yet, I see "anti-woke" people all the time bashing literally anything with LGBT+ characters, black people, female leads, etc. as if the only reason to have them is "leftist propaganda" because it's not always easy to tell the difference. If you supposedly don't mind the possibility of Makoto being trans, it sure as fuck doesn't translate when it comes to your behavior, you come across as seething the moment anyone mentions anything that could be construed as "woke". Please, point to a single instance where I insisted Makoto is trans, giving context that supports a possible trans interpretation of the character is not in ANY way an insistence that said character IS trans. As for the rest, I'm genuinely telling you to be more open minded and not so reactionary, and I don't see what's bad faith about arguing that it's possible he could be trans, that the logical context of the story doesn't completely rule it out. However, I can sometimes be just as much of an asshole as you, though, so don't let that confuse you. lol

That's it.

@Piromysl Yet, I see "anti-woke" people all the time bashing literally anything with LGBT+ characters, black people, female leads, etc. as if the only reason to have them is "leftist propaganda" because it's not always easy to tell the difference. If you supposedly don't mind the possibility of Makoto being trans, it sure as fuck doesn't translate when it comes to your behavior, you come across as seething the moment anyone mentions anything that could be construed as "woke". Please, point to a single instance where I insisted Makoto is trans, giving context that supports a possible trans interpretation of the character is not in ANY way an insistence that said character IS trans. As for the rest, I'm genuinely telling you to be more open minded and not so reactionary, and I don't see what's bad faith about arguing that it's possible he could be trans, that the logical context of the story doesn't completely rule it out. However, I can sometimes be just as much of an asshole as you, though, so don't let that confuse you. lol

That's it.

@LostSpectre





Literally the first thing you wrote is implying he is trans.

Bro, I'm not that stupid and can read English, so don't even bother.

Undetermined, unless you're spoiling from the manga, essentially. Don't listen to anyone who says otherwise.

My main problem with the LGBTQ (and many of them share this sentiment) is with the over saturation of Pride stuff that is being abused by companies to sell their “support” and has therefore overshadowed several other issues that matter too. For example, July is Disability Pride month yet no one knows or gives a shit, and I don’t blame LGBTQ people at all but the companies that monetize them.

Anyway, as for LGBTQ characters (specifically L), it’s true that there’s been a significant increase of those types of characters and often times their representation is very unrealistic and insufferable, so some people will dislike them regardless of “wokeness”. For example, I, and many others, can’t stand how so many series shove in an interfering lesbian/bisexual character as a joke in some romance oriented anime.

Also, you mentioned black people, but different races, as well as disabled people, are barely represented in anime unlike LGBTQ. I would welcome more characters like them.

@Animillion Uhhhhh.... yeah, that all sounds fair to me.

Wait, are we talking about that L? I just remember BL fans shipping him and Light, but didn't think he was gay/bi. lol

@LostSpectre As in the L in LGBTQ (lesbians).

It is not I who went full westerner Twitterian mode, so not really. Author is not a westerner, so this gender stuff is not the only thing they have on their mind and definitely doesn carter to this group, nor they have to. Assuming that they need to make Makoto a certain gender just because of one character trait usually associated with certain gender is everything the message of this show is against and by saying that you're no better than Makoto's mother.

@Animillion Uhhhhh.... yeah, that all sounds fair to me.

Wait, are we talking about that L? I just remember BL fans shipping him and Light, but didn't think he was gay/bi. lol

literally my exact thoughts. the story is about gender norms, not identity, and i think we can all safely say anyone of any gender can love cute things. we all agree that girls that like masculine things arent trans so it should be the same for guys that like feminine things

By the way, I'm surprised @Piromysl forgot to bring up the subs, since one the notorious "woke" localizers is working on it IIRC.

Also, I read a bit further in the web-comic, and there's a pretty strong emphasis on gender identity in the translation I found.

Author made several statements on social media, that the story is not about gender identity but gender norms. He likes cute things and at no points is questioning his own gender identity.

@Piromysl It's useless to say this.
Tourists are OBSESSED with transgenderism and want to see it everywhere, and they will shove it everywhere. "Oh you're a biological male who likes to act feminine? You are a trans girl"

Which is sad and funny in a way, because back then being LGBT was against labeling and normalizing being non conforming, now a lot of vocal LGBTourists desperately try to label everything as A or B to feel good with themselves.
The idea of someone not conforming with gender norms without gender dysphoria is enough to make their heads explode.

I guess to them all women in equality movements in the early 1900s wanting to wear trousers were all trans men because they were biological females desperately wanting to dress up and behave in the same way as men /s

TL;DR why are we even bothering lol

@Piromysl It's useless to say this.
Tourists are OBSESSED with transgenderism and want to see it everywhere, and they will shove it everywhere. "Oh you're a biological male who likes to act feminine? You are a trans girl"

Which is sad and funny in a way, because back then being LGBT was against labeling and normalizing being non conforming, now a lot of vocal LGBTourists desperately try to label everything as A or B to feel good with themselves.
The idea of someone not conforming with gender norms without gender dysphoria is enough to make their heads explode.

I guess to them all women in equality movements in the early 1900s wanting to wear trousers were all trans men because they were biological females desperately wanting to dress up and behave in the same way as men /s

TL;DR why are we even bothering lol

@FullyCharged Yeah, I get it, but you should probably bring this to the person above, who somehow sees trans connotations in the manga, despite the ending.

@FullyCharged Denying trans identity isn't quite the brave and progressive take that you think it is. There's at least a handful of manga on trans issues, there's literally no reason this couldn't have been one of them (if you don't know spoilers obv) and how many times are all of you going to regurgitate this massively oversimplified strawman about "boys can like cute things w/o being trans" lol

In English terms crossdresser questioning wanting to live as a girl or is instead genderqueer. Later basically just means not really necessarily identifying as a different gender just defying gender expectations. I mean that is closest terms we have in English. Otokonoko is just a character type term that doesnt necessarily directly translate to real people except cosplayers so results may vary on what it counts as.