It's sad how people are Calling Macaron a non binary

Huntee1999 said:
“No hate to non-binary people” as you hate on non-binary people. Look if the mangaka said it, it’s final. NB people exist in Japan so saying it’s to appease western fans with your made up “woke agenda” is just a conspiracy theory.

baymaxemon said:
Bro wtf is non binary people? I don't understand...

Sch4n said:
First of all those who are going to bring up that one page from manga, let me inform you that the Japanese version didn't use the anything like non binary. The author just said both male and female.

Those who are watching anime for a long time now and have watched anime from different time and era not just this era they know that a lot of anime has that one goofy ass guy who acts like women and tries to flirt with the MC or Side characters. Those guys are there only for the laughter of the audience. Those guys are just like tomboy girls.

And author probably said both male and female because of some weird doujinshi thing or to satisfy the western audience.

And Macaron, he literally has Takehito Koyasu, the voice actor for Dio. It's not someone cheap to hire. So if the studio wanted to present Macaron as non binary then they would have hired someone that does voice in that way.

No hate on non binary people but don't bring your woke agenda into the entertainment industry and ruin it for majority. If want to do that you guys have Disney and other shits in your west side.

ktg said:
Anime was "woke" even before the definition of woke came to existence.
So you are wrong on several levels.

karemi_ said:
And if Macaron was considered NB by the fans then... why would it be bad?
Not like he's a real person with actual feelings who can feel hurt by that lol

FZREMAKE said:
It's simple. The author did not intend to add such a character for representation or woke stuff. It's just there for comedy purpose or to add some fun element.

Sch4n said:

because considering him NB will change the writers' way to portray him. People just want to read and watch which is real and comes from the writer. Not someones' imagination to push an agenda.

karemi_ said:

Idk man, it's just fiction. It's like fujoshi who consider every second character gay, as long as it's fiction and they aren't being creepy then who cares.

Sch4n said:

Owww I get it, what you are saying. It's a nice way to put it. Thank you.

Yeah you are right. It's not the show or the character which is annoying. It's the people putting their weird fantasies on the show. I should just not care about these people.

traed said:
@Bobbie1233
Was the word ryousei 両性 meaning bi-gender as in both genders as identity?

Piromysl said:
Is this Yamato 2.0 situation, where localized are mistranslating and tourists without media literacy are drawing wrong conclusions as a result?

Saimatsu_Fan said:
considering the fact that the translation use " they/them" pronouns for Macaron even though calling someone with " they/them " doesn't work in the Japanese or literally 99% of any language, yes

traed said:

Japanese doesn't use third person pronouns to begin with usually because it is omitted when speaking especially for example how you cant call some girl "shoujo" because that term usually is used to mean "girlfriend" instead which would potentially come off rude like you're saying "my girl" to some random girl so technically Japanese always are saying "they" indirectly because they will only use the person's name or description of that person or include them in a group of people. The 99% of languages comment is even more wrong. Why English is that way is because while originally "hit" was used in Olde English as a neutral for people but at some point "it" started just being used more on objects and sometimes animals not people so much (I dont know the details how that happened yet) and some people were using singular "they" though it was never consistently something everyone did but Shakespeare used it and chances are you use "they/them" all the time without realizing it since it is used when uncertain of a person's gender or sometimes to avoid redundancy in sentences. German the parent language of English has the gender neutral third person pronoun "es".


While I agree on the comment of applying the label asexual to someone not explicitly stated as having zero attraction to guys or girls the rest is uninformed on psychology. Gender identities aren't mental illnesses, gender dysphoria is though but one doesn't need gender dysphoria inherently to identify as transgender of some kind including non binary. The concept of gender roles are just social constructs that differ culture to culture and through the ages. Likewise asexual isnt considered a mental illness, but there are mental illnesses that make people avoid relationships or sex.

The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf. Except for the old-style language of that poem, its use of singular they to refer to an unnamed person seems very modern. Here’s the Middle English version: ‘Hastely hiȝed eche . . . þei neyȝþed so neiȝh . . . þere william & his worþi lef were liand i-fere.’ In modern English, that’s: ‘Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together.’

In the eighteenth century, grammarians began warning that singular they was an error because a plural pronoun can’t take a singular antecedent. They clearly forgot that singular you was a plural pronoun that had become singular as well. You functioned as a polite singular for centuries, but in the seventeenth century singular you replaced thou, thee, and thy, except for some dialect use. That change met with some resistance. In 1660, George Fox, the founder of Quakerism, wrote a whole book labelling anyone who used singular you an idiot or a fool. And eighteenth-century grammarians like Robert Lowth and Lindley Murray regularly tested students on thou as singular, you as plural, despite the fact that students used singular you when their teachers weren’t looking, and teachers used singular you when their students weren’t looking. Anyone who said thou and thee was seen as a fool and an idiot, or a Quaker, or at least hopelessly out of date.

Singular you has become normal and unremarkable. Also unremarkable are the royal we and, in countries without a monarchy, the editorial we: first-person plurals used regularly as singulars and nobody calling anyone an idiot and a fool. And singular they is well on its way to being normal and unremarkable as well. Toward the end of the twentieth century, language authorities began to approve the form. The New Oxford Dictionary of English (1998) not only accepts singular they, they also use the form in their definitions. And the New Oxford American Dictionary (Third Edition, 2010), calls singular they ‘generally accepted’ with indefinites, and ‘now common but less widely accepted’ with definite nouns, especially in formal contexts.

Examples of the singular "they" being used to describe someone features as early as 1386 in Geoffrey Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales and also in famous literary works like Shakespeare's Hamlet in 1599.
"They" and "them" were still being used by literary authors to describe people in the 17th Century too - including by Jane Austin in her 1813 novel Pride and Prejudice.

While these pronouns weren't used historically to define people as gender neutral, 'they' was used to specify a role being undertaken by a person.
"You could say that somebody was say, a teacher, but you didn't know whether that teacher was male or female," Dr Emma Moore, a professor of linguistics at the University of Sheffield, tells Radio 1 Newsbeat.
But she says it was from the 18th century onwards that people started using male pronouns when describing someone of a non-specific gender in writing and this marks the time when opinions on what pronouns should be used started to change.
"You might have a sentence like 'if a student comes to see the teacher, he must bring his homework', where he is supposed to refer generically to males and females," explains Dr Emma Moore.

traed said:
@Saimatsu_Fan
Pretty sure it isnt exclusive to Americans



https://www.oed.com/discover/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/


https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-49754930

Not that im saying the translation wasnt awkward and nonsensical that every character was using only singular "they/them" on Macaron who was a stranger to them. That would have worked if it was an androgynous character maybe but it comes off odd that it was silently understood.

ktg said:
@Sch4n Okay, the definition of woke is actually "someone is being normal". That's all, so if you are woke, that means you are normal.
Yes, there is another definition that the fascists are using which is about being gay and stuff.

But either way, anime and manga were woke like 40 years ago too. Oooka was adapted recently and everyone called it "woke", while the manga was 20 years old and the definition of woke is like 10.
So I'm right, anime and manga were woke even before the definition.

There's actually a cultural aspect of that too. Japan is a closed off country and not many people speak japanese outside of Japan, therefore they have a relatively small market where they need to sell their products. Because of that, the japanese authors always try to be more revolutionary and bring in new concepts, like being gay (or non binary, trans, whatever you call it). That's why it was/is successful.
So, when on the west being gay was still an illness, in Japan you could read about gay characters.

Naveen6662246 said:
yup they ruined hollywood completely,now they are coming to anime....i think those people have lot of freedom and time or money ,.....send them to north korea.....

Saimatsu_Fan said:

considering the fact that the translation use " they/them" pronouns for Macaron even though calling someone with " they/them " doesn't work in the Japanese or literally 99% of any language, yes

Sch4n said:
First of all those who are going to bring up that one page from manga, let me inform you that the Japanese version didn't use the anything like non binary. The author just said both male and female.

Those who are watching anime for a long time now and have watched anime from different time and era not just this era they know that a lot of anime has that one goofy ass guy who acts like women and tries to flirt with the MC or Side characters. Those guys are there only for the laughter of the audience. Those guys are just like tomboy girls.

And author probably said both male and female because of some weird doujinshi thing or to satisfy the western audience.

And Macaron, he literally has Takehito Koyasu, the voice actor for Dio. It's not someone cheap to hire. So if the studio wanted to present Macaron as non binary then they would have hired someone that does voice in that way.

No hate on non binary people but don't bring your woke agenda into the entertainment industry and ruin it for majority. If want to do that you guys have Disney and other shits in your west side.

ktg said:
@Sch4n And if you would be right about how Japanese society is not accepting lgbtq as a society, then they would have been attacked either way.
So you just refuted your own point. GJ. :)

bahimiron said:
I love how the fascism fetishists accuse others of acting on emotion, but themselves constantly go with gut feelings and general assumptions, finding any excuse to ignore any evidence and making wide-ranging generalizations about shit in which they've got no real understanding.

It's just like the way they'll insist everyone else has an agenda, but not them. They brought up the conversation. They started the thread. They dictated the tone. They said to ignore the source material. They tried to redefine the argument. But it's everyone else who has an agenda.

I mean, our hero in this little narrative ends their original post with making sure people understand that there is no hate for NB people, then has spent the entire thread showing nothing but absolute contempt for NB people. So it's hard to believe that anything they've said is genuine. Which is fine. If you choose to tune them out, you haven't lost much at all.

ktg said:
@Sch4n Yes, you did say. You literally said that "they don't accept it as a norm", which is false and for whatever reason you agree with this statement.
This is actually a pretty obvious thing that fascist does. They change their points regularly, lying, talking about something else etc.

Again, being woke means being normal and that is actually accepted in Japan right now and wokeness was already in the media like 40 years ago.
To be fair, western media aren't pushing it either, they just go after the money. You can hardly find more racist companies than Disney, for example.

In this show everyone is supposed to be a comedic gig, so being male and female in itself is not a comedic gig and calling Macaron non binary or trans is perfectly fine (btw, no, acting feminine was not part of the gig). In Japan media they usually go with these types of explanation to show different types of people to the younger generation. This is still a shounen show.
This is pretty similar how Yamato was explained in One Piece. They don't use complex words.

ktg said:
@Sch4n Yes, you did say. You literally said that "they don't accept it as a norm", which is false and for whatever reason you agree with this statement.
This is actually a pretty obvious thing that fascist does. They change their points regularly, lying, talking about something else etc.

Again, being woke means being normal and that is actually accepted in Japan right now and wokeness was already in the media like 40 years ago.
To be fair, western media aren't pushing it either, they just go after the money. You can hardly find more racist companies than Disney, for example.

In this show everyone is supposed to be a comedic gig, so being male and female in itself is not a comedic gig and calling Macaron non binary or trans is perfectly fine (btw, no, acting feminine was not part of the gig). In Japan media they usually go with these types of explanation to show different types of people to the younger generation. This is still a shounen show.
This is pretty similar how Yamato was explained in One Piece. They don't use complex words.

Sch4n said:

Bro you serious? Sailor Uranus?

There are two existing theories about her.

1. She is a biological girl, who acts as a boy on the race track and school because she doesn't want anyone to underestimate her thinking she is a girl. She is basically a Tomboy character.

2. And the other one is that She was born with Both male and female biological parts. That's a real but very very very rare condition. And it's a physical one with enough scientific proof to back up. Not some "feel like" bullshit. That's a mental disorder. Now the theory is she is intersex. That's it. When she transforms she gives off more girly traits and when she doesn't she gives off more masculine traits.


And most of the people who watched her, all of them thought of her as a girl who likes to look tough by behaving like a man and wearing masculine clothes. One body thought the other way. It started to happen after all these western audience spreading their woke bs.

LucenProject said:

Competing theories? No. It's 2.

Sch4n said:

Bro you serious? Sailor Uranus?

There are two existing theories about her.

1. She is a biological girl, who acts as a boy on the race track and school because she doesn't want anyone to underestimate her thinking she is a girl. She is basically a Tomboy character.

2. And the other one is that She was born with Both male and female biological parts. That's a real but very very very rare condition. And it's a physical one with enough scientific proof to back up. Not some "feel like" bullshit. That's a mental disorder. Now the theory is she is intersex. That's it. When she transforms she gives off more girly traits and when she doesn't she gives off more masculine traits.


And most of the people who watched her, all of them thought of her as a girl who likes to look tough by behaving like a man and wearing masculine clothes. One body thought the other way. It started to happen after all these western audience spreading their woke bs.