I need to understand what's wrong with the art

Piromysl said:
It's almost like studio changed or something.

Skaldi2 said:
the colour saturation blends better, idk

Apolygon2 said:
you clearly didn't read my post

it's obviously different because of the studio change, but that wasn't what I was talking about.

I'm trying to figure out what part of the difference has made the characters stick out more (in a bad way)

Sagenaker11 said:
Wit studio has the best lighting and texture effect in anime industry while mappa is....well mappa. Although the core staff remained the same, plenty of mappa employees did secondary effects

Piromysl said:

Also thematical shift and timeskip.

yomBlue said:
My guess is the animator doesnt have much time to draw detailed face and the animation director doesnt have the time to correct the drawing, the AD maybe probably said "let's just release the episode on time we Will fix it in bluray" to the animator.

Like in aot s4 p2 bluray they make a lot of changes in Chara expresion.

Monster of the week trope is a sign inability of the author to write a good plot so they introduce random ass villain to distract viewer with action.

Piromysl said:

Also thematical shift and timeskip.

Apolygon2 said:
I wanted to say "well chainsawman didn't have this problem"

but then I thought about it and realized that's mappa's best work animation wise, so it's not exactly their "normal standard"

CreepHazard said:
I think WIT had less line-work and more shadows, while MAPPA did the opposite. Backgrounds were pretty much the same both seasons, but since S1 involved more travelling it had a whole lot of Landscapes and Situations to shine. Season 2 was just as good imo.
Art direction wise I definitely prefer Season 2, WIT had a few standout cuts throughout the season, but other times there were quite a few off-model characters and very stiff animation the majority of the season. MAPPA did have a sort of stuff animation overall but the consistency was amazing. Technically Season 2 is more impressive imo.
As for exactly what it is that you were searching for, maybe the first line of my answer helped? I got carried away and I don't feel like deleting what I just said lol. But yeah I think it's the Shadows and Line-work.
ALSO WIT studios character designs look less... geometrical? The lines are more flowy compared to MAPPA except the hair.

Apolygon2 said:

how does that.. you ... why... I .....


you know what?



just nevermind

Apolygon2 said:
I wanted to say "well chainsawman didn't have this problem"

but then I thought about it and realized that's mappa's best work animation wise, so it's not exactly their "normal standard"

ktg said:

If that's their best work, then why does it have some problem with the animation that wasn't really a problem with JJK?
CSM was overhyped and animation-wise, compared to the hype, it was weak.

Piromysl said:

Have you even tried to considering what I said and that it might be deliberate change? Dramatic shift in theme is impossible to overlook and while faces of characters might be less detailed, what is way more detailed in fact in comparison to first season are HANDS.




In first season we were following the story of warriors and high profile figures making history, thus faces were detailed, while in Farmland Saga we have literal slaves as main characters. The only thing they have and provide is physical labour, thus their hands are so damn well detailed and we get quite a lot of close-ups on them, while their faces are much less important. They are beautifully rugged as someone who spent lengthy time doing physical labour would have.
That change you are bothered by is indeed symbolized by that thematical shift.
At least it's my theory.

Apolygon2 said:

well.... ok, the fights in jjk were better.

but the animation of csm had something that 99% of action anime don't have, good animation in every scene.

Sagenaker11 said:
bruh this was chainsaw mans biggest problem, it was bland boring and lifeless. Many people shit on cgi but it was  actually good for anime standards but this was the actual culprit. Mappa always uses annoying color filters which you can clearly see in csm, aot p1/p2.

Mappa actually has really good aniamtuon fluidity as we saw in jjk( mappa's best work)GOHS and csm but they always struggle when it comes to texture.

The only popular show they did which ticks all the box was aot p3 but then again it was just hour long( although jjk s2 trailer looks clean af)

Edit: btw s2 of vinalnd is actually better than s1 when it comes to production. Wit dropped the ball heavily during later half of s1( although they did went all out on 22-24

Sagenaker11 said:
Wit studio has the best lighting and texture effect in anime industry while mappa is....well mappa. Although the core staff remained the same, plenty of mappa employees did secondary effects

ZachyMoof said:
the facial shadows are a lot less present making their faces feel flat because shadow is what gives depth

ktg said:

If that's their best work, then why does it have some problem with the animation that wasn't really a problem with JJK?
CSM was overhyped and animation-wise, compared to the hype, it was weak.

Gavinyeet said:
the lighting is better this season. S1 was grey and dull the whole season

ktg said:

Lol, no. Overall animation was better in JJK. Currently that's the best animation-wise by MAPPA.
While they did try to do some good animation in CSM, but they introduced a couple mistakes in animation that weren't there in earlier shows.

It's actually not the first. They tried this with SnK where they also failed with this. Currently MAPPA can not be listed among the best studios probably because their tight schedules cause the qualities to drop compared to other top shows.
It was pretty obvious especially when CSM aired. It was pretty hyped, but wasn't even in the top 3 in that season.

Apolygon2 said:
bruh what lmao

it was more grey because it had more cloudy and night scenes. darker scenes being grey is not a sign of bad lighting. not even a little.

Apolygon2 said:
texture.... sure.... maybe

but the lighting of CSM is masterclass. and the characters do blend in with the backgrounds seemlessly.

that's what I meant when I said it didn't have that poblem.

also I like the filters... sue me lol

Apolygon2 said:

on a different note.

I can't understand why you would ever think s1 was worse looking.

even putting the characters aside.... wit's backgrounds were on a completely different level.

deg said:
this are low priority frames vs high priority frames so obviously low priority means lower quality

there are plenty of high quality frames on season 2 too aka strong AD (animation direction) work

YMW18 said:
stop hatin and enjoy lol nothin rlly changed. Season 2’s background art and compositing is much better too

Litbae said:
just in case you didn't know, both seasons share the same background artist yuusuke takeda (also responsible for the background art for csm). so maybe the difference comes from the historical significance of the places that s1 covered like the Roman columns, mercia and all that making it stand out more from s2's bgs. even though I'd say quality wise, think they're pretty much on the same scale.

Litbae said:
just in case you didn't know, both seasons share the same background artist yuusuke takeda (also responsible for the background art for csm). so maybe the difference comes from the historical significance of the places that s1 covered like the Roman columns, mercia and all that making it stand out more from s2's bgs. even though I'd say quality wise, think they're pretty much on the same scale.

Apolygon2 said:

you bring up a number of interesting points...


but I think the backgrounds are 100% worse without a question.

you will not find a single background even close to as good looking as these:

Apolygon2 said:
texture.... sure.... maybe

but the lighting of CSM is masterclass. and the characters do blend in with the backgrounds seemlessly.

that's what I meant when I said it didn't have that poblem.

also I like the filters... sue me lol


on a different note.

I can't understand why you would ever think s1 was worse looking.

even putting the characters aside.... wit's backgrounds were on a completely different level.

Apolygon2 said:

you bring up a number of interesting points...


but I think the backgrounds are 100% worse without a question.

you will not find a single background even close to as good looking as these:

Chilli_ said:
Season 1 was done by studio WIT.

Season 2 however was done by Mappa.

So just by that you’re gonna have changes, additionally Mappa was managing a lot of projects during this time so some series suffered. I agree season 2 looks worse, people like to hype up Mappa but WIT should have kept it.

I’d recommend reading the manga from this point, one because the next arc is the best arc in the series, and the art is just incredible compared to what Mappa has offered for season 2 and I assume they’ll offer for season 3.

CreepHazard said:

For both season 1 and 2, the backgrounds were made by Studio Bamboo, not the animation studio. A separate studio was in charge of both the season's backgrounds. This is the team you were looking for that did ED background for AOT S4 Part 2
They seem to be uncredited for VS season 2, but I'm pretty sure they're still incharge tbh.
They also did the backgrounds for Chainsaw Man
Actually I think it's the Studio Yuusuke Takeda is associated with.

Apolygon2 said:

I just checked. It is studio bamboo, but they are only credited on working on the first episode of s2, while they are credited as working on all of s1.

Apolygon2 said:
something about the character art of season 2 has been bothering me since the start, and I can't for the life of me understand what it is specifically, so help me out here, to make this easier:

here's some generic shots from season 1:












and here's some similar generic shots from season 2:












Here's the thing, I know the backgrounds are not nearly as detailed this season, that part is just factually true. if you don't think the backgrounds are worse you have probably just forgotten how good the backgrounds were in season 1....


but that's not the problem.

there is something about the characters.

for some reason they look more ""flat"". like they stick out of the screen more and have a harder time blending in the background... but the thing is... I sound like a crazy person to myself when I say it, cause when I look at the seasons side to side, I can not understand why it's like that.

My best guess is that it's a mix of worse lighting, and making the character outlines thinner, but I'm talking out of my ass here.

maybe it's the colouring, maybe it's the backgrounds... maybe maybe maybe i don't know.

and I need your help to understand what is problem.

ZXEAN said:
Vinland Saga is really a beautiful anime. I haven't seen anything like this before.

Piromysl said:
It's almost like studio changed or something.