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Jul 9, 2017 5:50 PM
#1

Offline
Jul 2016
5129
What are people's views on Socialism.

Hopefully we can have a civil discussion on the matter.
RuneRemNov 15, 2020 11:53 AM
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Jul 9, 2017 6:09 PM
#2

Offline
Nov 2009
14588
Nyu said:
And if you don't know what national socialism represents, this is Hitler's interpretation.

"What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our
race and our people, the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland."
Hitler was fascist, while similar, it is not "socialist" - Per the ideals of socialism, all means of production are controlled by the people, per fascism means of production are controlled by the state (There is not "state" in a socialist society) - Typically the state is controlled by a single leader (I would say not elected, i.e. inherited, but since fascism really never survives longer than 1 generation, one cannot really speculate on how the leader of a fascist country will pass on power).


Nyu said:
I see this to mean a homeland for the European people, primarily for the European people.
Hitler was talking about Aryans, not Europeans. Their is a very large difference.

Nyu said:
Purity of blood, well if you know anything about genetics, you'd know about recessive and dominant genes, it just so happens our genes are recessive, so if our blood mixes, we lose our features, this actually leads to less diversity. And our population, it's falling, in every one of our countries. And it's just casually ignored, if it was any other group, then people would care.
You are wrong on so many levels it is hard to tackle this statement without being insulting but I'll try:

1) Genetics is far more complicated than recessive / dominant alleles; In fact, the amount of traits coded for by a single gene are likely >.01% of total traits. Most phenotypic traits are polygenetic (many genes code for 1 trait) / pleiotropic (one gene codes for a single trait or part of a trait) with very complex interactions between. This does not even factor in the fact that many genes are not fully dominant / recessive, meaning that any inherited trait is a mixture of both such as eye or hair color.

2) More diversity in the gene pool = more diversity in inherited traits. I honestly don't know how you could possibly rationalize the reverse.

3) Genetics has nothing to do w/ declining birth rate in the way you are thinking; and if it did (which it is likely 90%+ due to environmental influences), then what you would want is to bring in "genes from races that are multiplying faster than Europeans" (of course this is ridiculous in theory for so many reasons - including the most basic reason that heritability is based within groups, and cannot explain differences between groups; i.e. because you are grouping Europeans v. others you cannot then apply genetics to both groups equally - I am just trying to explain a fundamental flaw in your already backwards theory).



Nyu said:
We also reject feminism since nature intends for women and men to be complementary, not contradictory. While feminists arrogantly reject women’s uniqueness, attempting to “liberate” women from their womanhood, National Socialists accept the differences between men and women as strengths. Due to these differences, or natural roles, political authority and war are masculine spheres.
Socialism at its core is equality, and we are not talking "equality of opportunity", we are talking "equality of outcome" - now, typically socialism is only applied to economic status, but if you were to expand it to other spheres, logically it would follow this line of thought. Furthermore, the "differences between men and women" as you put it are based on the "hunter-gatherer" form of society which has been obsolete for decades. It is no longer required for a man to be physically strong or for a women to be popping out babies left and right to make sure 1-2 survive.


Nyu said:
That is National Socialism.
Why call it socialism, pretty sure you would HATE anyone calling themselves a socialist.
Pirating_NinjaJul 9, 2017 6:25 PM
Jul 9, 2017 6:23 PM
#3
lagom
Online
Jan 2009
106980
lol thats now how socialism is defined by modern socialist like me

rapid progress in automation is the main reason socialism and its final form communism are getting popular again thats all about it, its more about economic justice rather than social things like race and sexes or whatever cultural shit

you are just promoting racism and sexism with your pseudoscience social darwinism belief
Jul 9, 2017 6:26 PM
#4

Offline
Mar 2008
53221
National Socialism is a misnomer. It's not Socialism, it's barely even Social Democracy. It's a racist version of Social Democracy mixed with Fascism and thus is a form of Capitalism. The very notion of nation revolving around race is just idiotic. Race is just a social construct that divides humanity by arbitrary purely aesthetic attributes. This is very shallow.
traedJul 9, 2017 6:30 PM
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⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀
Jul 9, 2017 6:32 PM
#5
lagom
Online
Jan 2009
106980
and really you care about preserving races when the very point of natural selection (that you always like to talk) is genetic changes until another race/species comes up base on how well it/they adapt to the future environment?

humanity will not stay as humans forever you know

and besides there are genetic sequencing tech today to just preserve any genome/gene pool available so your worry about your race going extinct is nothing
Jul 9, 2017 6:35 PM
#6

Offline
Oct 2011
142
It may prove a more fruitful and noble goal to instead dedicate your efforts to preserving Western Culture, Literature, Visual Art, Music, Philosophy, and in general good ideas that allow mankind to develop and thrive while also looking to the future.
Jul 9, 2017 6:51 PM
#7

Offline
Mar 2008
53221
Nyu said:
traed said:
National Socialism is a misnomer. It's not Socialism, it's barely even Social Democracy. It's a racist version of Social Democracy mixed with Fascism and thus is a form of Capitalism. The very notion of nation revolving around race is just idiotic. Race is just a social construct that divides humanity by arbitrary purely aesthetic attributes. This is very shallow.


Why should I bother responding when you're throwing science out the window, how is ethnicity a social construct.

Nationality =/= ethnicity =/= race

Learn what words mean first.
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
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Jul 9, 2017 7:21 PM
#8

Offline
Mar 2008
53221
Nyu said:
traed said:

Nationality =/= ethnicity =/= race

Learn what words mean first.


You forget that people use race to mention ethnicity, that's pretty commonplace, especially since a lot of people don't know what ethnicity is, and refer to it as race. It is rather obvious I was using it in the ethnicity sense of the word.


Race as in black, white, asian, arab, jew or whatever isn't scientific it's just a load of bullshit. Ethnicity is about culture too so that's not about genes. The genetic similarities are by geographic region and these geographic regions do not have distinct boundaries except in cases of populations in very isolated locations that they had been in for many generations. These regions can include more than one so called race. Two races in same region share more genetic similarity than two of the same races from totally different regions.
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⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
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⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀
Jul 9, 2017 7:36 PM
#9

Offline
Apr 2017
4253
Bro lay off the hitler juice, thanks

Super national anything can cutely kiss my ass, if it asks nicely
イカロス --I K A R O S D E S U-- "Hai master" <3cruise

Becoming the bell of my heart
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Jul 9, 2017 8:15 PM

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Nyu said:
"meaning that any inherited trait is a mixture of both such as eye or hair colour."
Your only making my argument, the traits are no longer independent, they're a mix, so less diversity. And over time, as the mixing continues, there will no longer be independent traits, just mixes.

Moderation, Genetic diversity is good, however, too much diversity is bad, as it leads to mixes only. A good comparison, Vanilla and chocolate ice cream, when they mix, you no longer have chocolate or vanilla, just a mix.
Holy crap. I have never seen such blatant stupidity. I'm sorry but that is what this is -

Essentially what you are saying, is that instead of containing a gene pool with billions of combinations, limiting said gene pool to only 1-2 alleles allowing for only 2-4 combinations = more diversity.

Also, your vanilla / chocolate example is a shit tier example because what you are arguing is that Just vanilla / just chocolate is more diverse than vanilla / chocolate / 1% vanilla + 99% chocolate / 2% vanilla + 98% chocolate / etc. - The fact you struggle to even grasp such a simple concept and argue that limiting the gene pool creates diversity is so "anti-science" I suggest you fuck it and join the New Earthers - Then you won't have to worry about science, it is all just evil voodoo magic.
Jul 9, 2017 8:17 PM

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What is with kids unironically thinking Hitler was right lately?
Jul 9, 2017 8:20 PM

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So you're proud to be a neonazi or a fascist?
Lol, at what point ignorance can get.
Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious.
Jul 9, 2017 8:42 PM
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Narmy said:
What is with kids unironically thinking Hitler was right lately?


Eh, the Tankies and NazBols are far worse people than anyone else.
Jul 9, 2017 9:17 PM

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Nico- said:
Narmy said:
What is with kids unironically thinking Hitler was right lately?


Eh, the Tankies and NazBols are far worse people than anyone else.

I can't keep up with all these new terms...
Jul 9, 2017 9:18 PM
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Narmy said:
Nico- said:


Eh, the Tankies and NazBols are far worse people than anyone else.

I can't keep up with all these new terms...


People who unironically believe Stalin did nothing wrong and communism actually works in societies.
Jul 9, 2017 10:44 PM

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Jun 2017
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Nyu said:

Moderation, Genetic diversity is good, however, too much diversity is bad, as it leads to mixes only. A good comparison, Vanilla and chocolate ice cream, when they mix, you no longer have chocolate or vanilla, just a mix.


idk what the fuck you're talking about chocovanilla mix tastes better than either of those

actually tho, why is racemixing bad?

i could say "because reeee racism" but i know thats unproductive
Jul 9, 2017 11:13 PM
lagom
Online
Jan 2009
106980
Nyu said:

Moderation, Genetic diversity is good, however, too much diversity is bad, as it leads to mixes only. A good comparison, Vanilla and chocolate ice cream, when they mix, you no longer have chocolate or vanilla, just a mix.


wrong, more biodiversity is always good especially for controlling the spread and evolution of diseases http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101201/full/news.2010.644.html
if humanity will be the only species on earth for example of no biodiversity then you can be sure that germs will evolve and spread more faster since those germs can only focus on 1 target immune system and thats humanity

that is why global eugenics is a bad idea too and should go for localize eugenics to make each human group adapt better to their environment since not all environment on earth are the same especially when it comes to the climate
Jul 10, 2017 12:09 AM

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Nyu said:
traed said:


Race as in black, white, asian, arab, jew or whatever isn't scientific it's just a load of bullshit. Ethnicity is about culture too so that's not about genes. The genetic similarities are by geographic region and these geographic regions do not have distinct boundaries except in cases of populations in very isolated locations that they had been in for many generations. These regions can include more than one so called race. Two races in same region share more genetic similarity than two of the same races from totally different regions.


So now you're trying to argue Ethnicity isn't about biological differences, learn biology will you, I can't be bothered debating established scientific fact at 3 AM.


Ethnicity is about culture and national origins and it has some overlap with geographic groups but does not directly correlate with geographic groupings of genes.
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Jul 10, 2017 12:38 AM

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Dec 2015
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Nyu said:
"What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our
race and our people, the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland."

I don't know why you think "pure blood" is a good thing. If anything striving for "pure blood" will lead to congenital birth defects.
The strongest genes are those that are the most diverse.
Jul 10, 2017 12:48 AM
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561910
OP just call it what it is, the historical dumpster of idiocy known as "Nazism"
also genetics have repeatedly disproven your eugenic bullshit, most neonazis aren't even blonde haired and blue eyed anyway in accordance with their own ideological toxicity, they're often druggie looking scraggletoothed inbreds from some no name rural area who look like they did too much meth
removed-userJul 10, 2017 12:52 AM
Jul 10, 2017 12:54 AM

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Oh look, another nazi punk who considers himself an ubermensch but would've been considered an untermensch by Hitler and his pals.

Nothing to see here LOL
Nico- said:
@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite
Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained
Jul 10, 2017 2:25 AM
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2057
The Nazis lost the war a super long time ago already, I didn't know that Nazis were still salty over losing.

Jul 10, 2017 2:37 AM
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Socialism is a system in which heroically solves problems not known in any other system
Jul 10, 2017 6:08 PM

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13408
Nico- said:
Narmy said:
What is with kids unironically thinking Hitler was right lately?


Eh, the Tankies and NazBols are far worse people than anyone else.


You'd go Nazi if they rose to power AND I THINK YOU KNOW IT

Personally Im not a fan don't think it's funny and Nazis are K.O.S. yeh dawg lol
I CELEBRATE myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.
Jul 10, 2017 6:19 PM
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xrockxz89 said:
Nico- said:


Eh, the Tankies and NazBols are far worse people than anyone else.


You'd go Nazi if they rose to power AND I THINK YOU KNOW IT

Personally Im not a fan don't think it's funny and Nazis are K.O.S. yeh dawg lol


Me thinking people are worse than Nazis=I'm OK with Nazis? Nope, I'm just reiterating my stance on why communists or communist types will always be worse than Nazis based on both policy and empathy alike.
Jul 10, 2017 6:20 PM

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Rarusu_ said:
If someone doesn't behave like one of us, I don't care how 100% ancestrally of my group somebody is.

So close to realizing how stupid caring about your "identity" is, yet so far.
Jul 10, 2017 6:21 PM

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2145
Wow.... freedom of speech was a mistake. Way too many teenagers who want to take the most controversial opinion possible just because they can.

If the Nazis were so great why did they get owned by a bunch of starving underequipped Slavs?
BarryManilowJul 10, 2017 6:35 PM
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Jul 10, 2017 6:22 PM

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8330
Socialism is pretty cancer. Like cancer though it takes time to spread and some people don't even realize it's affecting thing. Nationalism Socialism is like a straight up dumpster fire. It's right there in your face and it's pretty ugly... and smelly.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
Jul 10, 2017 6:23 PM

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13408
Nico- said:
xrockxz89 said:


You'd go Nazi if they rose to power AND I THINK YOU KNOW IT

Personally Im not a fan don't think it's funny and Nazis are K.O.S. yeh dawg lol


Me thinking people are worse than Nazis=I'm OK with Nazis? Nope, I'm just reiterating my stance on why communists or communist types will always be worse than Nazis based on both policy and empathy alike.

Just sayin.

I am not saying you're currently a Nazi. But with Fascists, silence=consent just realize that.
I CELEBRATE myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.
Jul 10, 2017 6:24 PM

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First... It seems that you want to get reactions... But you also want users not to kill each other; which contradicts what you want to really happen in the first place. Therefore, what is the need of the existence of this thread?


Well anyway, I don't really like History that much, so I guess I just have to pretend that I don't know it despite Google who spit out Nasizm...
Jul 10, 2017 6:25 PM

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Nyu said:

This is actually annoying me, I'm talking about National Socialism, whereas you're considering it Socialism, it is not.

It is not normal socialism, but rather a variant, a nationalist variant.
Also, and since the leader was elected, by the people, and the leader controls the means of production, one could argue that the people do control the means of production.

Hitler never actually won an election, he used fascist tactics and very likely also used domestic terrorism to force his way into the position of Chancellor and dissolve German democracy, but he never got over 40% of the vote in an election.

If Papen wasn't so convinced that he was a complete moron who could be controlled, or Hindenburg hadn't have died soon after Hitler got into a position of power National Socialism would not have been able to institute itself the way it did.

tl;dr, if the people of Germany 'really' got to elect their leader National Socialism would not have gotten off the ground.
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Jul 10, 2017 6:26 PM
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xrockxz89 said:
Nico- said:


Me thinking people are worse than Nazis=I'm OK with Nazis? Nope, I'm just reiterating my stance on why communists or communist types will always be worse than Nazis based on both policy and empathy alike.

Just sayin.

I am not saying you're currently a Nazi. But with Fascists, silence=consent just realize that.


Fascism hasn't killed 94 Million people in the 20th Century, so yes, it does have a virtue that communism does not.
Jul 10, 2017 6:28 PM

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Nico- said:
xrockxz89 said:

Just sayin.

I am not saying you're currently a Nazi. But with Fascists, silence=consent just realize that.


Fascism hasn't killed 94 Million people in the 20th Century, so yes, it does have a virtue that communism does not.
WWII was arguably a direct result of Fascist regimes in Germany and Italy and killed 80 million both directly and indirectly, so they are pretty comparable.

Communism definitely gets off lightly in comparison though. Pol Pot was possibly even more of a monster than Hitler, and his atrocities were more directly tied to Communist economic ideals than the Holocaust was to any Fascist economic policy.
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Jul 10, 2017 6:29 PM

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Nico- said:
xrockxz89 said:

Just sayin.

I am not saying you're currently a Nazi. But with Fascists, silence=consent just realize that.


Fascism hasn't killed 94 Million people in the 20th Century, so yes, it does have a virtue that communism does not.

Surely they are equally bad. Nazism is only good for its fashion sense, beyond that it's a horror.
I CELEBRATE myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.
Jul 10, 2017 8:15 PM

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4153
very saddening that it plays a big part in the backlash against nationalism in modern times.
wish more people would read up on not the party, or hitler, or anything, but on the history of the weimar republic and the relationship between it and the rest of germany in the years preceding the rise of nazi germany.

Oh maybe, maybe it's the clothes we wear
The tasteless bracelets and the dye in our hair
Or maybe, maybe it's our nowhere towns or our nothing places
But we're trash, you and me
We're the litter on the breeze
We're the lovers on the streets
Just trash, me and you
It's in everything we do
It's in everything we do



Jul 10, 2017 8:33 PM

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53221
Yomiyuki said:
very saddening that it plays a big part in the backlash against nationalism in modern times.
wish more people would read up on not the party, or hitler, or anything, but on the history of the weimar republic and the relationship between it and the rest of germany in the years preceding the rise of nazi germany.

There is more than one kind of Nationalism. The kind of Nazi Germany is universally bad by any standard.
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Jul 10, 2017 9:07 PM

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7031
traed said:
Yomiyuki said:
very saddening that it plays a big part in the backlash against nationalism in modern times.
wish more people would read up on not the party, or hitler, or anything, but on the history of the weimar republic and the relationship between it and the rest of germany in the years preceding the rise of nazi germany.

There is more than one kind of Nationalism. The kind of Nazi Germany is universally bad by any standard.

All nationalism is bad.​​​​​​​​​​​​​
Jul 10, 2017 9:10 PM
lagom
Online
Jan 2009
106980
Narmy said:
traed said:

There is more than one kind of Nationalism. The kind of Nazi Germany is universally bad by any standard.

All nationalism is bad.​​​​​​​​​​​​​


ye nationalism can make people arrogant and/or racist
Jul 10, 2017 9:19 PM

Offline
Sep 2012
4153
traed said:
Yomiyuki said:
very saddening that it plays a big part in the backlash against nationalism in modern times.
wish more people would read up on not the party, or hitler, or anything, but on the history of the weimar republic and the relationship between it and the rest of germany in the years preceding the rise of nazi germany.

There is more than one kind of Nationalism. The kind of Nazi Germany is universally bad by any standard.

that's the main one that damages it is what i'm saying.
i don't know of any nationalism that has the same effect.

Oh maybe, maybe it's the clothes we wear
The tasteless bracelets and the dye in our hair
Or maybe, maybe it's our nowhere towns or our nothing places
But we're trash, you and me
We're the litter on the breeze
We're the lovers on the streets
Just trash, me and you
It's in everything we do
It's in everything we do



Jul 10, 2017 9:19 PM

Offline
Sep 2012
4153
Narmy said:
traed said:

There is more than one kind of Nationalism. The kind of Nazi Germany is universally bad by any standard.

All nationalism is bad.​​​​​​​​​​​​​

no.
it's not.
please explain in what way ALL nationalism is bad.

Oh maybe, maybe it's the clothes we wear
The tasteless bracelets and the dye in our hair
Or maybe, maybe it's our nowhere towns or our nothing places
But we're trash, you and me
We're the litter on the breeze
We're the lovers on the streets
Just trash, me and you
It's in everything we do
It's in everything we do



Jul 10, 2017 9:30 PM

Offline
May 2013
13408
Yomiyuki said:
Narmy said:

All nationalism is bad.​​​​​​​​​​​​​

no.
it's not.
please explain in what way ALL nationalism is bad.


look there's 2 kinds

rooting for your nation in the world cup = good

sectarian pride and wishing for world domination = dumbass
I CELEBRATE myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.
Jul 10, 2017 9:33 PM

Offline
Sep 2012
4153
xrockxz89 said:
Yomiyuki said:

no.
it's not.
please explain in what way ALL nationalism is bad.


look there's 2 kinds

rooting for your nation in the world cup = good

sectarian pride and wishing for world domination = dumbass

i don't see the correlation between loving your country= wanting world domination.

Oh maybe, maybe it's the clothes we wear
The tasteless bracelets and the dye in our hair
Or maybe, maybe it's our nowhere towns or our nothing places
But we're trash, you and me
We're the litter on the breeze
We're the lovers on the streets
Just trash, me and you
It's in everything we do
It's in everything we do



Jul 10, 2017 9:34 PM

Offline
Mar 2008
53221
Narmy said:
traed said:

There is more than one kind of Nationalism. The kind of Nazi Germany is universally bad by any standard.

All nationalism is bad.​​​​​​​​​​​​​

@j0x
" Left-wing nationalism, leftist nationalism or socialist nationalism (not to be confused with national socialism) describes a form of nationalism based upon social equality, popular sovereignty, and national self-determination.[1] It has its origins in the Jacobinism of the French Revolution.[1] Left-wing nationalism typically espouses anti-imperialism.[2][3] It stands in contrast to right-wing nationalism, and often rejects ethno-nationalism and fascism,[2] although some forms of left-wing nationalism have included a platform of racialism and rejection of minorities.[2]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_nationalism

"Civic nationalism, also known as progressive nationalism, is a kind of nationalism and identified by political philosophers who believe in a non-xenophobic form of nationalism compatible with progressive values of freedom, tolerance, equality and individual rights.[1][2] Ernest Renan[3] and John Stuart Mill[4][5] are often thought to be early civic nationalists. Civic nationalists often defend the value of national identity by saying that individuals need a national identity in order to lead meaningful, autonomous lives[6] and that democratic polities need national identity in order to function properly.[7]

Civic nationhood is a political identity built around shared citizenship in a democratic state. Thus, a "civic nation" isn't defined by its language or culture, but by its political institutions and progressive principles, which its citizens pledge to uphold. Membership in the civic nation is open to anyone who shares these values.[8]

In theory, a civic nation or state does not aim to promote one culture over another.[8] German philosopher Jürgen Habermas argued that immigrants to a progressive state need not assimilate into the host culture, but only need to accept the principles of the country's Constitution.[8]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civic_nationalism
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
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⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀
Jul 10, 2017 9:37 PM

Offline
May 2013
13408
Yomiyuki said:
xrockxz89 said:


look there's 2 kinds

rooting for your nation in the world cup = good

sectarian pride and wishing for world domination = dumbass

i don't see the correlation between loving your country= wanting world domination.


Neither do I but clearly some of us are having troubles with this distinction ay?

I CELEBRATE myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.
Jul 10, 2017 9:39 PM

Offline
Sep 2012
4153
xrockxz89 said:
Yomiyuki said:

i don't see the correlation between loving your country= wanting world domination.


Neither do I but clearly some of us are having troubles with this distinction ay?


umm. what?
there's not just two kinds of nationalism like you said.
unless you were joking or something idk

Oh maybe, maybe it's the clothes we wear
The tasteless bracelets and the dye in our hair
Or maybe, maybe it's our nowhere towns or our nothing places
But we're trash, you and me
We're the litter on the breeze
We're the lovers on the streets
Just trash, me and you
It's in everything we do
It's in everything we do



Jul 10, 2017 9:40 PM

Offline
Mar 2008
53221
Yomiyuki said:

i don't see the correlation between loving your country= wanting world domination.


You must be american. Mostly americans mix up patriatism and nationalism.
http://www.differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-nationalism-and-patriotism/

⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀
Jul 10, 2017 9:44 PM

Offline
Sep 2012
4153
traed said:
Yomiyuki said:

i don't see the correlation between loving your country= wanting world domination.


You must be american. Mostly americans mix up patriatism and nationalism.
http://www.differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-nationalism-and-patriotism/


idk i do think the us is better than every other country in a lot of ways, but don't really want world domination. maybe a mix between the two i guess.

Oh maybe, maybe it's the clothes we wear
The tasteless bracelets and the dye in our hair
Or maybe, maybe it's our nowhere towns or our nothing places
But we're trash, you and me
We're the litter on the breeze
We're the lovers on the streets
Just trash, me and you
It's in everything we do
It's in everything we do



Jul 10, 2017 9:46 PM
Offline
Jun 2015
1579
I think it's very powerful. The way it was used in Germany led to a complete turnaround for the country, causing it to become probably the strongest country in the world at the time.

Jul 10, 2017 9:50 PM
Offline
Jul 2018
561910
Can someone put this pathetic 'thread' out of its misery?
Jul 10, 2017 9:56 PM

Offline
May 2013
13408
Yomiyuki said:
xrockxz89 said:


Neither do I but clearly some of us are having troubles with this distinction ay?


umm. what?
there's not just two kinds of nationalism like you said.
unless you were joking or something idk


yeah straight up man I was saying that loving your nation does NOT need to imply sectarian aggression, but you didn't seem to dig it I guess.
I CELEBRATE myself,
And what I assume you shall assume,
For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.
This topic has been locked and is no longer available for discussion.
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