New
Jul 13, 12:12 AM
#1
Does he wants to be a girl for real or he just love girly, feminine stuff? |
Jul 13, 12:14 AM
#2
Undetermined, unless you're spoiling from the manga, essentially. Don't listen to anyone who says otherwise. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 2:06 AM
#3
Author made several statements on social media, that the story is not about gender identity but gender norms. He likes cute things and at no points is questioning his own gender identity. |
PiromyslJul 13, 2:47 AM
Jul 13, 5:12 AM
#4
Jul 13, 5:47 AM
#5
I think he loves for being able to love the things he likes no matter if its meant for men or women |
Jul 13, 6:03 AM
#7
It’s spelled out clearly in ep 1 and 2 that he just loves cute things, his gender identity is irrelevant. I sympathise to be honest, I never see the same choice of colourful trainers in the men’s section as the ladies/ girls. And sadly I’m size 12 UK so I can’t buy from the female section. |
Jul 13, 9:16 AM
#8
He's just a cute boy who likes cute things |
Jul 13, 11:18 AM
#9
Reply to Piromysl
Author made several statements on social media, that the story is not about gender identity but gender norms. He likes cute things and at no points is questioning his own gender identity.
@Piromysl I usually try to avoid your comments, but... lol He literally seems to prefer living as the female gender, so "likes cute things" is quite the oversimplification. I hope the author puts some thought/sensitivity into these aspects of the story, at any rate. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 11:19 AM
#10
LostSpectre said: @Piromysl I usually try to avoid your comments, but... lol He literally seems to prefer living as the female gender, so "likes cute things" is quite the oversimplification. I hope the author puts some thought/sensitivity into these aspects of the story, at any rate. Yeah, please keep avoiding my comments. |
Jul 13, 11:20 AM
#11
Reply to Piromysl
LostSpectre said:
@Piromysl I usually try to avoid your comments, but... lol
He literally seems to prefer living as the female gender, so "likes cute things" is quite the oversimplification. I hope the author puts some thought/sensitivity into these aspects of the story, at any rate.
@Piromysl I usually try to avoid your comments, but... lol
He literally seems to prefer living as the female gender, so "likes cute things" is quite the oversimplification. I hope the author puts some thought/sensitivity into these aspects of the story, at any rate.
Yeah, please keep avoiding my comments.
@Piromysl Hahaha ... that's such a pathetic reply, but fine by me. :) |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 11:23 AM
#12
It is not I who went full westerner Twitterian mode, so not really. Author is not a westerner, so this gender stuff is not the only thing they have on their mind and definitely doesn carter to this group, nor they have to. Assuming that they need to make Makoto a certain gender just because of one character trait usually associated with certain gender is everything the message of this show is against and by saying that you're no better than Makoto's mother. |
PiromyslJul 13, 11:27 AM
Jul 13, 11:27 AM
#13
Reply to FutoiOtaku
It’s spelled out clearly in ep 1 and 2 that he just loves cute things, his gender identity is irrelevant. I sympathise to be honest, I never see the same choice of colourful trainers in the men’s section as the ladies/ girls. And sadly I’m size 12 UK so I can’t buy from the female section.
@FutoiOtaku Gender identity could be very relevant to a male who prefers girly things, wants to dress like girls, prefers to live as a girl, etc. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 11:28 AM
#14
Reply to Piromysl
It is not I who went full westerner Twitterian mode, so not really. Author is not a westerner, so this gender stuff is not the only thing they have on their mind and definitely doesn carter to this group, nor they have to. Assuming that they need to make Makoto a certain gender just because of one character trait usually associated with certain gender is everything the message of this show is against and by saying that you're no better than Makoto's mother.
@Piromysl That's such a painfully idiotic viewpoint of gender, transgender people and femboys can both exist, homie. To be clear, nobody said a fucking thing about him needing to be trans, but you need him to only be a femboy. lol |
LostSpectreJul 13, 11:34 AM
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 11:32 AM
#15
LostSpectre said: @FutoiOtaku Gender identity could be very relevant to a male who prefers girly things, wants to dress like girls, prefers to live as a girl, etc. You don’t get it do you? The whole point of the story, That tastes don’t need to be linked to gender. His tastes have been shown, but his gender identity has not yet been revealed or explored. He just enjoys the clothing options available to females. Gender identity is so far irrelevant. |
Jul 13, 11:34 AM
#16
Reply to FutoiOtaku
LostSpectre said:
@FutoiOtaku Gender identity could be very relevant to a male who prefers girly things, wants to dress like girls, prefers to live as a girl, etc.
@FutoiOtaku Gender identity could be very relevant to a male who prefers girly things, wants to dress like girls, prefers to live as a girl, etc.
You don’t get it do you? The whole point of the story, That tastes don’t need to be linked to gender. His tastes have been shown, but his gender identity has not yet been revealed or explored. He just enjoys the clothing options available to females. Gender identity is so far irrelevant.
@FutoiOtaku Funny. You're not getting the point that what has been shown could easily be deeper than "boy likes cute things". |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 11:34 AM
#17
LostSpectre said: @FutoiOtaku Gender identity could be very relevant to a male who prefers girly things, wants to dress like girls, prefers to live as a girl, etc. Assuming that someone has to identify as certain gender just because they like things commonly associated with certain gender is literally everything this show's message is against. You have the exact same mentality like Makoto's mother with the only difference being on the other side of radical spectrum. How is she worse person for refusing her son access to cute things, than someone encouraging Makoto into transitioning? |
Jul 13, 11:40 AM
#18
Reply to Piromysl
LostSpectre said:
@FutoiOtaku Gender identity could be very relevant to a male who prefers girly things, wants to dress like girls, prefers to live as a girl, etc.
@FutoiOtaku Gender identity could be very relevant to a male who prefers girly things, wants to dress like girls, prefers to live as a girl, etc.
Assuming that someone has to identify as certain gender just because they like things commonly associated with certain gender is literally everything this show's message is against.
You have the exact same mentality like Makoto's mother with the only difference being on the other side of radical spectrum.
How is she worse person for refusing her son access to cute things, than someone encouraging Makoto into transitioning?
@Piromysl Stop drinking that red pill Koolaid, bud. There's more than enough context so far to support a potential trans interpretation of the character, you're just as bigoted as the people you seem to despise if you're not even willing to accept that much. These are not mutually exclusive concepts, crossover can exist. Not once have I said he IS trans, you're misgendering him, or any other sort of fearmongering that's spinning around in that head of yours. My only argument is that it's entirely possible someone like Makoto could be trans, given the context of the story, hence why I said it's undetermined. The rest of you are the ones that are closeminded to any other perspectives, not me. Like, if you think it's impossible that someone who seems more comfortable presenting as female could be trans, don't know what to tell you. Give me a little context here, what do you think of transgender people? Do you think it's a real thing or just mental illness? |
LostSpectreJul 13, 11:46 AM
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 11:47 AM
#19
Reply to LostSpectre
@Piromysl Stop drinking that red pill Koolaid, bud. There's more than enough context so far to support a potential trans interpretation of the character, you're just as bigoted as the people you seem to despise if you're not even willing to accept that much. These are not mutually exclusive concepts, crossover can exist. Not once have I said he IS trans, you're misgendering him, or any other sort of fearmongering that's spinning around in that head of yours. My only argument is that it's entirely possible someone like Makoto could be trans, given the context of the story, hence why I said it's undetermined. The rest of you are the ones that are closeminded to any other perspectives, not me.
Like, if you think it's impossible that someone who seems more comfortable presenting as female could be trans, don't know what to tell you.
Give me a little context here, what do you think of transgender people? Do you think it's a real thing or just mental illness?
Like, if you think it's impossible that someone who seems more comfortable presenting as female could be trans, don't know what to tell you.
Give me a little context here, what do you think of transgender people? Do you think it's a real thing or just mental illness?
@LostSpectre Yeah, I'm bigoted because I don't drag my fetish into this show and don't want it to descend into souless, western shlock. Totally. Like, I don't even know what else author could have present to us in order to convey, that Makoto is NOT trans and does not doubt his gender identity. And if you see someone who likes cute things, immediately think that they may be trans, then I don't know what to tell you. But it's not like someone did not had similar opinion before. And not falling for that "gotcha" question. Don't bother. We are talking about anime, not real life. |
PiromyslJul 13, 11:52 AM
Jul 13, 11:53 AM
#20
Reply to Piromysl
@LostSpectre Yeah, I'm bigoted because I don't drag my fetish into this show and don't want it to descend into souless, western shlock. Totally.
Like, I don't even know what else author could have present to us in order to convey, that Makoto is NOT trans and does not doubt his gender identity.
And if you see someone who likes cute things, immediately think that they may be trans, then I don't know what to tell you.
But it's not like someone did not had similar opinion before.
And not falling for that "gotcha" question. Don't bother. We are talking about anime, not real life.
Like, I don't even know what else author could have present to us in order to convey, that Makoto is NOT trans and does not doubt his gender identity.
And if you see someone who likes cute things, immediately think that they may be trans, then I don't know what to tell you.
But it's not like someone did not had similar opinion before.
And not falling for that "gotcha" question. Don't bother. We are talking about anime, not real life.
@Piromysl I'll just go back to an earlier comment, transgender people and femboys can both exist, bro. It's weird hating one and loving the other. Also, not sure why you think that Japanese people are somehow incapable of writing about this subject. Oh, and no "gotcha" buddy, a genuine question to gauge your stance, because it's relevant to the topic. |
LostSpectreJul 13, 11:56 AM
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 12:01 PM
#21
@Piromysl "And if you see someone who likes cute things, immediately think that they may be trans, then I don't know what to tell you." You can keep repeating that statement, but it doesn't make it any less of an oversimplification. Sure, you have an argument for when he's a 4 year old and he liked the pink bag with bows on it, but it's not quite as compelling of an argument when he seems to be more comfortable living/dressing as a girl, wig included, is happy to be recognized as a girl, etc. All I'm asking you to do is think with an open mind, but I imagine that's difficult when the word "trans" makes you start foaming at the mouth. Edit: After reading your other comment, If you don't have a problem with trans people, then you have to learn the difference between someone making a good faith argument versus someone who simply wants to morph the narrative for "representation" etc. because you can't live in a world that's completely black/white. |
LostSpectreJul 13, 12:18 PM
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 12:04 PM
#22
Reply to LostSpectre
@Piromysl I'll just go back to an earlier comment, transgender people and femboys can both exist, bro. It's weird hating one and loving the other.
Also, not sure why you think that Japanese people are somehow incapable of writing about this subject.
Oh, and no "gotcha" buddy, a genuine question to gauge your stance, because it's relevant to the topic.
Also, not sure why you think that Japanese people are somehow incapable of writing about this subject.
Oh, and no "gotcha" buddy, a genuine question to gauge your stance, because it's relevant to the topic.
@LostSpectre And my point is, that unlike westerners, they are capable of writing something else. And don't even try to give me BS that it's not true, because we all know, that even if they would try to make a male character that shows even the slightest sign of lower testosterone, they would be immediately bullied by Those People into making them trans. Femboys do not exist in western media, while in Japan they still do and people who say stuff like you did want to erase them. They already managed to erase Bridget and definitely won't stop at just him. There are already people on X, who aggressively push the false narrative, that Makoto is actually trans and even try to gaslight people, that "otokonoko" is a slur. Not even joking. LostSpectre said: Oh, and no "gotcha" buddy, a genuine question to gauge your stance, because it's relevant to the topic. There are several amazing trans characters, like Ryuuji from Blue Period or Nao from Skip to Loafer. 👍 I'd say that Japanese are actually better at writing them, than westerners are. |
PiromyslJul 13, 12:12 PM
Jul 13, 12:13 PM
#23
Reply to Piromysl
@LostSpectre And my point is, that unlike westerners, they are capable of writing something else.
And don't even try to give me BS that it's not true, because we all know, that even if they would try to make a male character that shows even the slightest sign of lower testosterone, they would be immediately bullied by Those People into making them trans. Femboys do not exist in western media, while in Japan they still do and people who say stuff like you did want to erase them. They already managed to erase Bridget and definitely won't stop at just him. There are already people on X, who aggressively push the false narrative, that Makoto is actually trans and even try to gaslight people, that "otokonoko" is a slur. Not even joking.
There are several amazing trans characters, like Ryuuji from Blue Period or Nao from Skip to Loafer. 👍
I'd say that Japanese are actually better at writing them, than westerners are.
And don't even try to give me BS that it's not true, because we all know, that even if they would try to make a male character that shows even the slightest sign of lower testosterone, they would be immediately bullied by Those People into making them trans. Femboys do not exist in western media, while in Japan they still do and people who say stuff like you did want to erase them. They already managed to erase Bridget and definitely won't stop at just him. There are already people on X, who aggressively push the false narrative, that Makoto is actually trans and even try to gaslight people, that "otokonoko" is a slur. Not even joking.
LostSpectre said:
Oh, and no "gotcha" buddy, a genuine question to gauge your stance, because it's relevant to the topic.
Oh, and no "gotcha" buddy, a genuine question to gauge your stance, because it's relevant to the topic.
There are several amazing trans characters, like Ryuuji from Blue Period or Nao from Skip to Loafer. 👍
I'd say that Japanese are actually better at writing them, than westerners are.
@Piromysl This just tells me your actions are a reaction to those groups, not that you're actually thinking for yourself. Look at how upset your getting because even the possibility of a character being trans in a form of Japanese media might impact the actions/beliefs of the group you oppose. This no longer has anything to do with a critical examination of the work itself, it just comes down to politics and an "us or them" mentality. The problem with being against "woke" content is that you're inevitably drawing the line against all forms of "progressive" content, even the ones that are genuine and not forced to meet a diversity quota, etc. and to be clear we're not talking about just anime anymore. It's interesting you bring up Ryuuji because I wasn't under the impression they were (canon) trans, unless it happened later in the manga. |
LostSpectreJul 13, 12:19 PM
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 12:26 PM
#24
Reply to LostSpectre
@Piromysl This just tells me your actions are a reaction to those groups, not that you're actually thinking for yourself. Look at how upset your getting because even the possibility of a character being trans in a form of Japanese media might impact the actions/beliefs of the group you oppose. This no longer has anything to do with a critical examination of the work itself, it just comes down to politics and an "us or them" mentality. The problem with being against "woke" content is that you're inevitably drawing the line against all forms of "progressive" content, even the ones that are genuine and not forced to meet a diversity quota, etc. and to be clear we're not talking about just anime anymore.
It's interesting you bring up Ryuuji because I wasn't under the impression they were (canon) trans, unless it happened later in the manga.
It's interesting you bring up Ryuuji because I wasn't under the impression they were (canon) trans, unless it happened later in the manga.
@LostSpectre No, not really. I don't dislike the possibility of Makoto being trans by itself, but yours insistence. And you're kinda right. I'm not really falling for your "be open minded" argument and I don't belive it was made in good faith. Those People are already trying to pollute anime and this slippery slope went too far. And I don't really mind "progressive" content, but leftist political propaganda poorly disguised as entertainment, which is what "wokeness" is. |
Jul 13, 12:35 PM
#25
Reply to Piromysl
@LostSpectre No, not really. I don't dislike the possibility of Makoto being trans by itself, but yours insistence.
And you're kinda right. I'm not really falling for your "be open minded" argument and I don't belive it was made in good faith. Those People are already trying to pollute anime and this slippery slope went too far.
And I don't really mind "progressive" content, but leftist political propaganda poorly disguised as entertainment, which is what "wokeness" is.
And you're kinda right. I'm not really falling for your "be open minded" argument and I don't belive it was made in good faith. Those People are already trying to pollute anime and this slippery slope went too far.
And I don't really mind "progressive" content, but leftist political propaganda poorly disguised as entertainment, which is what "wokeness" is.
@Piromysl Yet, I see "anti-woke" people all the time bashing literally anything with LGBT+ characters, black people, female leads, etc. as if the only reason to have them is "leftist propaganda" because it's not always easy to tell the difference. If you supposedly don't mind the possibility of Makoto being trans, it sure as fuck doesn't translate when it comes to your behavior, you come across as seething the moment anyone mentions anything that could be construed as "woke". Please, point to a single instance where I insisted Makoto is trans, giving context that supports a possible trans interpretation of the character is not in ANY way an insistence that said character IS trans. As for the rest, I'm genuinely telling you to be more open minded and not so reactionary, and I don't see what's bad faith about arguing that it's possible he could be trans, that the logical context of the story doesn't completely rule it out. However, I can sometimes be just as much of an asshole as you, though, so don't let that confuse you. lol That's it. |
LostSpectreJul 13, 12:38 PM
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 12:47 PM
#26
Reply to LostSpectre
@Piromysl Yet, I see "anti-woke" people all the time bashing literally anything with LGBT+ characters, black people, female leads, etc. as if the only reason to have them is "leftist propaganda" because it's not always easy to tell the difference. If you supposedly don't mind the possibility of Makoto being trans, it sure as fuck doesn't translate when it comes to your behavior, you come across as seething the moment anyone mentions anything that could be construed as "woke". Please, point to a single instance where I insisted Makoto is trans, giving context that supports a possible trans interpretation of the character is not in ANY way an insistence that said character IS trans. As for the rest, I'm genuinely telling you to be more open minded and not so reactionary, and I don't see what's bad faith about arguing that it's possible he could be trans, that the logical context of the story doesn't completely rule it out. However, I can sometimes be just as much of an asshole as you, though, so don't let that confuse you. lol
That's it.
That's it.
@LostSpectre LostSpectre said: Please, point to a single instance where I insisted Makoto is trans LostSpectre said: He literally seems to prefer living as the female gender, Literally the first thing you wrote is implying he is trans. |
Jul 13, 12:48 PM
#27
Reply to LostSpectre
@Piromysl Yet, I see "anti-woke" people all the time bashing literally anything with LGBT+ characters, black people, female leads, etc. as if the only reason to have them is "leftist propaganda" because it's not always easy to tell the difference. If you supposedly don't mind the possibility of Makoto being trans, it sure as fuck doesn't translate when it comes to your behavior, you come across as seething the moment anyone mentions anything that could be construed as "woke". Please, point to a single instance where I insisted Makoto is trans, giving context that supports a possible trans interpretation of the character is not in ANY way an insistence that said character IS trans. As for the rest, I'm genuinely telling you to be more open minded and not so reactionary, and I don't see what's bad faith about arguing that it's possible he could be trans, that the logical context of the story doesn't completely rule it out. However, I can sometimes be just as much of an asshole as you, though, so don't let that confuse you. lol
That's it.
That's it.
@LostSpectre LostSpectre said: Please, point to a single instance where I insisted Makoto is trans LostSpectre said: He literally seems to prefer living as the female gender, Literally the first thing you wrote is implying he is trans. bruv. |
Jul 13, 12:53 PM
#28
Reply to Piromysl
@LostSpectre
Literally the first thing you wrote is implying he is trans.
LostSpectre said:
Please, point to a single instance where I insisted Makoto is trans
Please, point to a single instance where I insisted Makoto is trans
LostSpectre said:
He literally seems to prefer living as the female gender,
He literally seems to prefer living as the female gender,
Literally the first thing you wrote is implying he is trans.
@Piromysl That's incorrect. I implied that this level of feminine gender presentation goes beyond merely "likes cute things" because it does. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 12:54 PM
#29
LostSpectre said: @Piromysl That's incorrect. I implied that this level of feminine gender presentation goes beyond "likes cute things" because it does. Bro, I'm not that stupid and can read English, so don't even bother. |
Jul 13, 1:00 PM
#30
Reply to Piromysl
LostSpectre said:
@Piromysl That's incorrect. I implied that this level of feminine gender presentation goes beyond "likes cute things" because it does.
@Piromysl That's incorrect. I implied that this level of feminine gender presentation goes beyond "likes cute things" because it does.
Bro, I'm not that stupid and can read English, so don't even bother.
@Piromysl I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. You're the one who simplified it to "likes cute things" and I don't think you can 100% boil it down to just that, definitively. I believe there's more than enough context given to support that the possibility of a trans gender identity. He does seem comfortable living as a "female" in school, what's wrong about that statement? Me critiquing your absolute stance does not mean that I'm advocating for an absolute stance of my own. |
LostSpectreJul 13, 1:08 PM
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 1:17 PM
#31
Reply to LostSpectre
Undetermined, unless you're spoiling from the manga, essentially. Don't listen to anyone who says otherwise.
@Piromysl Look, I'll take responsibility if I gave you the wrong impression, but my stance has been right fucking here the entire time. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 4:36 PM
#32
I think he’s a feminine guy. Doesn’t necessarily have to make him LGBTQ |
Jul 13, 4:53 PM
#33
LostSpectre said: @Piromysl Yet, I see "anti-woke" people all the time bashing literally anything with LGBT characters, black people, female leads, etc. as if the only reason to have them is "leftist propaganda" because it's not always easy to tell the difference. If you supposedly don't mind the possibility of Makoto being trans, it sure as fuck doesn't translate when it comes to your behavior, you come across as seething the moment anyone mentions anything that could be construed as "woke". Please, point to a single instance where I insisted Makoto is trans, giving context that supports a possible trans interpretation of the character is not in ANY way an insistence that said character IS trans. As for the rest, I'm genuinely telling you to be more open minded and not so reactionary, and I don't see what's bad faith about arguing that it's possible he could be trans, that the logical context of the story doesn't completely rule it out. However, I can sometimes be just as much of an asshole as you, though, so don't let that confuse you. lol That's it. My main problem with the LGBTQ (and many of them share this sentiment) is with the over saturation of Pride stuff that is being abused by companies to sell their “support” and has therefore overshadowed several other issues that matter too. For example, July is Disability Pride month yet no one knows or gives a shit, and I don’t blame LGBTQ people at all but the companies that monetize them. Anyway, as for LGBTQ characters (specifically L), it’s true that there’s been a significant increase of those types of characters and often times their representation is very unrealistic and insufferable, so some people will dislike them regardless of “wokeness”. For example, I, and many others, can’t stand how so many series shove in an interfering lesbian/bisexual character as a joke in some romance oriented anime. Also, you mentioned black people, but different races, as well as disabled people, are barely represented in anime unlike LGBTQ. I would welcome more characters like them. |
AnimillionJul 13, 4:56 PM
Jul 13, 5:25 PM
#34
Reply to Animillion
LostSpectre said:
@Piromysl Yet, I see "anti-woke" people all the time bashing literally anything with LGBT characters, black people, female leads, etc. as if the only reason to have them is "leftist propaganda" because it's not always easy to tell the difference. If you supposedly don't mind the possibility of Makoto being trans, it sure as fuck doesn't translate when it comes to your behavior, you come across as seething the moment anyone mentions anything that could be construed as "woke". Please, point to a single instance where I insisted Makoto is trans, giving context that supports a possible trans interpretation of the character is not in ANY way an insistence that said character IS trans. As for the rest, I'm genuinely telling you to be more open minded and not so reactionary, and I don't see what's bad faith about arguing that it's possible he could be trans, that the logical context of the story doesn't completely rule it out. However, I can sometimes be just as much of an asshole as you, though, so don't let that confuse you. lol
That's it.
@Piromysl Yet, I see "anti-woke" people all the time bashing literally anything with LGBT characters, black people, female leads, etc. as if the only reason to have them is "leftist propaganda" because it's not always easy to tell the difference. If you supposedly don't mind the possibility of Makoto being trans, it sure as fuck doesn't translate when it comes to your behavior, you come across as seething the moment anyone mentions anything that could be construed as "woke". Please, point to a single instance where I insisted Makoto is trans, giving context that supports a possible trans interpretation of the character is not in ANY way an insistence that said character IS trans. As for the rest, I'm genuinely telling you to be more open minded and not so reactionary, and I don't see what's bad faith about arguing that it's possible he could be trans, that the logical context of the story doesn't completely rule it out. However, I can sometimes be just as much of an asshole as you, though, so don't let that confuse you. lol
That's it.
My main problem with the LGBTQ (and many of them share this sentiment) is with the over saturation of Pride stuff that is being abused by companies to sell their “support” and has therefore overshadowed several other issues that matter too. For example, July is Disability Pride month yet no one knows or gives a shit, and I don’t blame LGBTQ people at all but the companies that monetize them.
Anyway, as for LGBTQ characters (specifically L), it’s true that there’s been a significant increase of those types of characters and often times their representation is very unrealistic and insufferable, so some people will dislike them regardless of “wokeness”. For example, I, and many others, can’t stand how so many series shove in an interfering lesbian/bisexual character as a joke in some romance oriented anime.
Also, you mentioned black people, but different races, as well as disabled people, are barely represented in anime unlike LGBTQ. I would welcome more characters like them.
@Animillion Uhhhhh.... yeah, that all sounds fair to me. Wait, are we talking about that L? I just remember BL fans shipping him and Light, but didn't think he was gay/bi. lol |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 5:28 PM
#35
Reply to LostSpectre
@Animillion Uhhhhh.... yeah, that all sounds fair to me.
Wait, are we talking about that L? I just remember BL fans shipping him and Light, but didn't think he was gay/bi. lol
Wait, are we talking about that L? I just remember BL fans shipping him and Light, but didn't think he was gay/bi. lol
@LostSpectre As in the L in LGBTQ (lesbians). |
Jul 13, 5:55 PM
#36
Reply to Animillion
@LostSpectre As in the L in LGBTQ (lesbians).
@Animillion Oh, well shit. LMAO |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 13, 11:20 PM
#37
Reply to Piromysl
It is not I who went full westerner Twitterian mode, so not really. Author is not a westerner, so this gender stuff is not the only thing they have on their mind and definitely doesn carter to this group, nor they have to. Assuming that they need to make Makoto a certain gender just because of one character trait usually associated with certain gender is everything the message of this show is against and by saying that you're no better than Makoto's mother.
Piromysl said: Assuming that they need to make Makoto a certain gender just because of one character trait usually associated with certain gender is everything the message of this show is against and by saying that you're no better than Makoto's mother. literally my exact thoughts. the story is about gender norms, not identity, and i think we can all safely say anyone of any gender can love cute things. we all agree that girls that like masculine things arent trans so it should be the same for guys that like feminine things |
Jul 14, 1:20 AM
#38
Reply to LostSpectre
@Animillion Uhhhhh.... yeah, that all sounds fair to me.
Wait, are we talking about that L? I just remember BL fans shipping him and Light, but didn't think he was gay/bi. lol
Wait, are we talking about that L? I just remember BL fans shipping him and Light, but didn't think he was gay/bi. lol
Anime has always had a lot of queer or near-queer characters, especially in "overtly homophobic times." It's just that Japanese culture looks at sexuality a little differently than Western culture. Either by assuming that all people are bisexual, or that all girls go through some sort of "lesbian in college" thing. Add to this the idealization of friendship as a platonic “romance.” This is why so many friendships in shoujo are almost indistinguishable from yuri. But yes, so-called “rainbow capitalism” is indeed problematic. You can clearly see how hypocritical they're by the way they abandon their tolerance in countries with harsher attitudes towards minorities. @LostSpectre As far as I remember, the writers implied that he was either asexual or so fanatical that he was devoid of romance and attraction. But while the authors expectedly put it as “not interested in girls and romance,” shippers read it as “he’s gay". Many Japanese people are quite heteronormative due to the general conservatism of Japanese culture, so as with Death Note or LWA, they don't always understand that saying "he's not interested in girls" or "she's not interested in boys" will be interpreted as "they're gay" not "they're not interested in romance." |
RobertBobertJul 14, 1:24 AM
Jul 14, 9:12 AM
#39
He's a boy who likes cute things, it's like in the Otomen manga. |
Jul 14, 12:08 PM
#40
Reply to wahwahworld
Piromysl said:
Assuming that they need to make Makoto a certain gender just because of one character trait usually associated with certain gender is everything the message of this show is against and by saying that you're no better than Makoto's mother.
Assuming that they need to make Makoto a certain gender just because of one character trait usually associated with certain gender is everything the message of this show is against and by saying that you're no better than Makoto's mother.
literally my exact thoughts. the story is about gender norms, not identity, and i think we can all safely say anyone of any gender can love cute things. we all agree that girls that like masculine things arent trans so it should be the same for guys that like feminine things
@goodbyesekai Fine, but anime only viewers would not know it's strictly about gender norms at this stage in the story unless you're reading "otokonoko" in the title as "not trans" which is a huge stretch, because there's plenty of crossover between the two, and the majority of trans people likely experimented with crossdressing before transitioning. Trying to make this shit out to be "guys can like cute things without being trans" is so incredibly facetious. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 14, 12:21 PM
#41
By the way, I'm surprised @Piromysl forgot to bring up the subs, since one the notorious "woke" localizers is working on it IIRC. Also, I read a bit further in the web-comic, and there's a pretty strong emphasis on gender identity in the translation I found. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 15, 6:13 AM
#42
Reply to LostSpectre
By the way, I'm surprised @Piromysl forgot to bring up the subs, since one the notorious "woke" localizers is working on it IIRC.
Also, I read a bit further in the web-comic, and there's a pretty strong emphasis on gender identity in the translation I found.
Also, I read a bit further in the web-comic, and there's a pretty strong emphasis on gender identity in the translation I found.
@LostSpectre I already gave my opinion in episode discussion thread and yup, it is bad. |
Jul 15, 11:28 AM
#43
Reply to Piromysl
Author made several statements on social media, that the story is not about gender identity but gender norms. He likes cute things and at no points is questioning his own gender identity.
@Piromysl It's useless to say this. Tourists are OBSESSED with transgenderism and want to see it everywhere, and they will shove it everywhere. "Oh you're a biological male who likes to act feminine? You are a trans girl" Which is sad and funny in a way, because back then being LGBT was against labeling and normalizing being non conforming, now a lot of vocal LGBTourists desperately try to label everything as A or B to feel good with themselves. The idea of someone not conforming with gender norms without gender dysphoria is enough to make their heads explode. I guess to them all women in equality movements in the early 1900s wanting to wear trousers were all trans men because they were biological females desperately wanting to dress up and behave in the same way as men /s TL;DR why are we even bothering lol If anything, I REALLY want to see the reaction of tourists to the ending, when they see it, they will call this show transphobic for sure 😂 |
bruh |
Jul 15, 11:31 AM
#44
Reply to FullyCharged
@Piromysl It's useless to say this.
Tourists are OBSESSED with transgenderism and want to see it everywhere, and they will shove it everywhere. "Oh you're a biological male who likes to act feminine? You are a trans girl"
Which is sad and funny in a way, because back then being LGBT was against labeling and normalizing being non conforming, now a lot of vocal LGBTourists desperately try to label everything as A or B to feel good with themselves.
The idea of someone not conforming with gender norms without gender dysphoria is enough to make their heads explode.
I guess to them all women in equality movements in the early 1900s wanting to wear trousers were all trans men because they were biological females desperately wanting to dress up and behave in the same way as men /s
TL;DR why are we even bothering lol
If anything, I REALLY want to see the reaction of tourists to the ending, when they see it, they will call this show transphobic for sure 😂
Tourists are OBSESSED with transgenderism and want to see it everywhere, and they will shove it everywhere. "Oh you're a biological male who likes to act feminine? You are a trans girl"
Which is sad and funny in a way, because back then being LGBT was against labeling and normalizing being non conforming, now a lot of vocal LGBTourists desperately try to label everything as A or B to feel good with themselves.
The idea of someone not conforming with gender norms without gender dysphoria is enough to make their heads explode.
I guess to them all women in equality movements in the early 1900s wanting to wear trousers were all trans men because they were biological females desperately wanting to dress up and behave in the same way as men /s
TL;DR why are we even bothering lol
If anything, I REALLY want to see the reaction of tourists to the ending, when they see it, they will call this show transphobic for sure 😂
@FullyCharged Yeah, I get it, but you should probably bring this to the person above, who somehow sees trans connotations in the manga, despite the ending. |
Jul 15, 12:56 PM
#45
Reply to FullyCharged
@Piromysl It's useless to say this.
Tourists are OBSESSED with transgenderism and want to see it everywhere, and they will shove it everywhere. "Oh you're a biological male who likes to act feminine? You are a trans girl"
Which is sad and funny in a way, because back then being LGBT was against labeling and normalizing being non conforming, now a lot of vocal LGBTourists desperately try to label everything as A or B to feel good with themselves.
The idea of someone not conforming with gender norms without gender dysphoria is enough to make their heads explode.
I guess to them all women in equality movements in the early 1900s wanting to wear trousers were all trans men because they were biological females desperately wanting to dress up and behave in the same way as men /s
TL;DR why are we even bothering lol
If anything, I REALLY want to see the reaction of tourists to the ending, when they see it, they will call this show transphobic for sure 😂
Tourists are OBSESSED with transgenderism and want to see it everywhere, and they will shove it everywhere. "Oh you're a biological male who likes to act feminine? You are a trans girl"
Which is sad and funny in a way, because back then being LGBT was against labeling and normalizing being non conforming, now a lot of vocal LGBTourists desperately try to label everything as A or B to feel good with themselves.
The idea of someone not conforming with gender norms without gender dysphoria is enough to make their heads explode.
I guess to them all women in equality movements in the early 1900s wanting to wear trousers were all trans men because they were biological females desperately wanting to dress up and behave in the same way as men /s
TL;DR why are we even bothering lol
If anything, I REALLY want to see the reaction of tourists to the ending, when they see it, they will call this show transphobic for sure 😂
@FullyCharged Denying trans identity isn't quite the brave and progressive take that you think it is. There's at least a handful of manga on trans issues, there's literally no reason this couldn't have been one of them (if you don't know spoilers obv) and how many times are all of you going to regurgitate this massively oversimplified strawman about "boys can like cute things w/o being trans" lol |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 15, 12:57 PM
#46
Reply to Piromysl
@FullyCharged Yeah, I get it, but you should probably bring this to the person above, who somehow sees trans connotations in the manga, despite the ending.
@Piromysl The same fucking person who said it was UNDETERMINED after 2 ep. unless you know SPOILERS. That same person? lmao |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 15, 11:32 PM
#47
Reply to LostSpectre
@FullyCharged Denying trans identity isn't quite the brave and progressive take that you think it is. There's at least a handful of manga on trans issues, there's literally no reason this couldn't have been one of them (if you don't know spoilers obv) and how many times are all of you going to regurgitate this massively oversimplified strawman about "boys can like cute things w/o being trans" lol
LostSpectre said: There's at least a handful of manga on trans issues, there's literally no reason this couldn't have been one of them Sho. Go away tourist. |
Jul 18, 8:59 PM
#48
I'll put a spoiler tag here so people can read it at their own risk In the webcomic he does state towards the end that he doesn't want to be a girl, he just wants to live as himself. |
Jul 19, 6:24 AM
#49
In English terms crossdresser questioning wanting to live as a girl or is instead genderqueer. Later basically just means not really necessarily identifying as a different gender just defying gender expectations. I mean that is closest terms we have in English. Otokonoko is just a character type term that doesnt necessarily directly translate to real people except cosplayers so results may vary on what it counts as. |
traedJul 19, 6:30 AM
Jul 19, 7:23 AM
#50
Reply to traed
In English terms crossdresser questioning wanting to live as a girl or is instead genderqueer. Later basically just means not really necessarily identifying as a different gender just defying gender expectations. I mean that is closest terms we have in English. Otokonoko is just a character type term that doesnt necessarily directly translate to real people except cosplayers so results may vary on what it counts as.
@traed Otokonoko has long been a real quasi-subculture in Japan. With its analogues for women who “love everything masculine” or people who do not want to limit themselves to genders at all. But this is still a question beyond identities. All these people may have completely different reasons for their lifestyle. |
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