Kingdom 2nd Season Episode 35 Discussion

Zee530 said:
After the dragged out war things are finally getting back on track again, i know there are a lot of Diao haters from S1 but she's gradually proving her worth.

AlexTheRiot said:
Xin has now reached hentai level: Okabe

I liked how they fit in the flashbacks in to set up Diao's resolve in her first battle. It wasn't drug out, and it made her sudden transition more believable and justified.

The whole idea of all these units teaming up to go after Feixin is kinda funny, but oh well. It'll serve it's purpose of test running a well oiled machine with an actual licensed driver.

Azekura said:
Wow. Diao has really matured from the last time we've seen her. She's actually a lot more likable, can't wait to see what her plan is for the next episode.
And Xin was extremely stubborn this episode, more so than any other episode. I hope he slowly learns from Diao's tactics little by little, or I don't think he can ever be the Greatest General under the Heavens. Maybe he should just try to be the Greatest Unit/Army under the Heavens, since he's really dependent on Qiang Lei and Diao.

jackietran24 said:

Agree. Unless Xin learns strategy, I will just call him the Greatest warrior under Heavens and not the Greatest general.

AlexTheRiot said:
Xin has now reached hentai level: Okabe

fullmetalbender said:

(actually, who knew he'd be that bad to begin with!)

Azekura said:


I knew he wasn't the most clever person. Hell, I even remember how he walked right into a trap when he charged at the enemy castle, while Wang Ben and Tian Meng were waiting for a better situation in one of the earlier episodes.

But I sorta believed that Xin was slowly improving during the course of the Battle of Shanyang, while getting some help from his fellow soldiers and Qiang Lei, but I had no idea he was getting help entirely from Qiang Lei and the others.
Right now Xin is a strong warrior and a man who can give morale-boosting speeches, but sooner or later, he needs tactics to back himself up.

rebelakuma said:
^ Haha, it might take a while for Xin if he is to learn. But I would really love to see him fight in a more smarter and tactical way. And I am very impressed with Diao this time. As far as I remember, their master is Li Mu, right? So pretty credible foundation there. Can't wait how this will turn out since the enemy general is also testing Diao. hehe, I am liking this arc so far. Hoping for season 3!!

Ckan said:
It's been a long time, so it's definitely easy to get all these names mixed up. Li Mu is the Prime Minister of Zhao and one of the new 'Three Great Devas', the one who planned for Wang Qi's death in season 1.
Diao's, Meng Yi and Meng Tian's master would be Changpinjun, who is one of Lu Buwei's Four Pillars and the current head of Qin's military. He's the one hinted to be a greater general than Meng Wu.

Ckan said:
It's been a long time, so it's definitely easy to get all these names mixed up. Li Mu is the Prime Minister of Zhao and one of the new 'Three Great Devas', the one who planned for Wang Qi's death in season 1.
Diao's, Meng Yi and Meng Tian's master would be Changpinjun, who is one of Lu Buwei's Four Pillars and the current head of Qin's military. He's the one hinted to be a greater general than Meng Wu.

antonnn said:
Yeah Diao's pretty good. She's not the same as the first season. When Qiang Lei comes back, her, alongside Diao and Xin will make an amazing trio.

Azekura said:
I remember Meng Wu, Changpinjun and Cai Ou, but who's the other of the four pillars? Totally can't remember him.
Anyway, I can't wait to see what Changpinjun is capable of, so far we know he spends a lot of time on the board. We already know Meng Wu is extremely offensive and reckless as a general.

Azekura said:

I guess it'll be the Greatest Trio Under the Heavens.

Azekura said:



I guess it'll be the Greatest Trio Under the Heavens.

Ckan said:
The last one is Li Si (Ri Shi), I can't remember what his position was during their anime introduction, but he'd be on the administrative and advisor side of things. Historically he's also known for

Damn, Li Si (Ri Shi)? I can't put a face on him at all in the anime. I guess he wasn't featured too much in the anime, or didn't play a big role yet.
And yeah, I'm taking East Asian history this semester in my University as an elective, and we talked tons about Legalism. Though, I guess a Legalism episode in Kingdom would sorta be boring.
Li Si and the development of Legalism will be interesting in the anime for Zheng's case.

Ckan said:
Yeah, I don't think he's appeared since Lu Buwei's introduction. He had a pencil moustache, if I recall.

It'll definitely be interesting to see how the mangaka handles Zheng and the infamous ruthlessness of Qin Shi Huangdi. Makes you wonder how far the story will go (past ), and if it'll significantly diverge from our history.

Azekura said:
Also I'm not really familiar with Xin historically and his achievements (but I rather not know, so the anime will still be able to surprise me sometimes)

fullmetalbender said:
or they thought it would serve as a great comic relief to make him look an idiot

Thaosen said:
To me, this episode along with the last one were pretty much the episodes which killed the complete serie and I do not think I will keep this serie under watch, truly shameful after over 70 episodes.

We have been mostly following Xin since the beginning of the serie, he was improving over time in multiple areas. However, it was said and proven in the anime that being a good general requires to be a good strategist first and foremost, as seen when Wang Qi lost to Li Mu.

This is not One Piece with fights of a dozen persons scales, this is a manga about war, involving thousands of people. While being strong is useful (and still, I am quite sure Qianq Lei is much stronger than Xin will ever be), it is much less important than being a good strategist, which they pretty much forced Diao in the role.

At this point, if Xin somehow becomes an epic strategist, it won't make sense since Diao has studied much more in the area than he could ever do (and with the latest episodes, I don't even think the character of Xin have the ability to learn anything). If he becomes incredibly strong, Qiang Lei would surely keep being not only stronger, but smarter too.

I could see a duo of Qiang Lei and Diao being something quite strong, but Xin simply do not belong in any kind of trio, the author basically made his own main character the best candidate for the trash can.

To sums up, from my point of view, Xin is now a useless, dreamer character which turned out to be simply annoying to follow. Pretty much any other main character would be much better than him to reach his dream, which result in an anime with a main character who's a pain to follow more than anything.

Thaosen said:

To sums up, from my point of view, Xin is now a useless, dreamer character which turned out to be simply annoying to follow. Pretty much any other main character would be much better than him to reach his dream, which result in an anime with a main character who's a pain to follow more than anything.

fullmetalbender said:


I don't quite understand how you can arrive to the conclusion that Xin "is now a useless, dreamer character", unless your definition of useless actually includes being a thousand man general, having many achievements under the belt, and commanding the loyalty and respect of subordinates, friends, allies, and even some enemies. at the moment, Xin is not the legend he will, I assume, become in the future, he is still the nameless youth trying to rise with the power of his actions, and if you believe he (or anyone, for that matter) can do that without many failures and shortcomings...well, you either don't have much experience or think that kind of realism is not worth portraying in fiction.

and quite frankly, I'm surprised that after claiming to follow the anime for 70+ episodes you'd decide not to see through 4 more of them. well, it's your call of course, but for what it's worth, you should try finishing this season to see if your opinion of it remains as it is.

Azekura said:
Controlling a 300-man army isn't too much work, a 1000-man army is a bit harder, but that sudden jump to a 10,000-man army

Zephys said:
What really bugs me about Xin these past few episodes is his refusal to admit that he is wrong and accept help from a friend, not even an outsider, despite him losing many times to enemy forces. It's very unbelievable when wars involve the death of so many people which could be prevented yet he refuses just because he doesn't want help from an "outsider." This is perhaps because he hasn't been seeing the "behind the scenes" and only focusing on the generals themselves and end up thinking he can be like them without any help, but still his attitude makes very little sense to me.

Ckan said:
Well don't forget that to him and his men, Diao had no 'tangible' proof of her ability, not to mention they were expecting Meng Tian's cousin, not her. Closely bonded with his men, Xin (and pretty much anyone) would have significant doubts about sharing responsibility of command to an untried outsider.
I do agree that Xin was extremely foolhardy in ignoring Diao, but she too could have made a greater effort to convince Xin & co. of her skills. Ultimately we can also put it down to writing; it being an easy way of adding drama. It's always more fantastic to grasp victory from disadvantage.

Ckan said:

Well don't forget that to him and his men, Diao had no 'tangible' proof of her ability, not to mention they were expecting Meng Tian's cousin, not her. Closely bonded with his men, Xin (and pretty much anyone) would have significant doubts about sharing responsibility of command to an untried outsider.
I do agree that Xin was extremely foolhardy in ignoring Diao, but she too could have made a greater effort to convince Xin & co. of her skills. Ultimately we can also put it down to writing; it being an easy way of adding drama. It's always more fantastic to grasp victory from disadvantage.

Ckan said:
While I don't remember any instances in the anime so far, I think there'd likely be incremental ranks between leading 1000 to 10,000-man armies. I suppose there was the one time 1000-man Bi was temporarily given a boosted command of 5000 by Wang Jian, but that was presumably highly unusual.

Azekura said:


Yeah, that could be the case with many other generals, but I never seen that happen with Xin in the anime. He went from 300 to 1000, and then suddenly became a 10,000-man general during the Battle of Shangyang. And not only that, he was a reserve unit, only doing attacks together with Meng Tian and Wang Ben.

Ckan said:
Hmmm, wait. When did Xin command 10,000? Do you mean when he faced Lun Hu during the last part of the war? I do recall Lun Hu saying something along the lines of how Xin was now holding the Centre Army together, but I don't believe he was ever the actual commander of the whole force. I could be wrong on that though.

Azekura said:

Oh wait, I might be wrong. Did he get promoted to 1000 or 10,000?
EDIT: Ah, I was wrong. just rewatched some of the parts, and Xin is just a 1,000-man general. Still, 300 to 1,000 is a pretty big jump, I guess.

fullmetalbender said:


Yes I agree, and I actually mentioned this earlier in the discussion because it was bothering me too and I'll quote myself: "I have to say I was a little disappointed in Xin for opposing her for so long - he, of all people, should know better than to make assumptions on face value - but then I figured it must have been pretty tough for him as a 1000 man general. the pressure of his defeats, his men, and fame of his unit probably contributed to his tenacity." So yeah, I think it had a lot to do with the circumstances and Xin's psychological state.

fullmetalbender said:
I don't quite understand how you can arrive to the conclusion that Xin "is now a useless, dreamer character", unless your definition of useless actually includes being a thousand man general, having many achievements under the belt, and commanding the loyalty and respect of subordinates, friends, allies, and even some enemies. at the moment, Xin is not the legend he will, I assume, become in the future, he is still the nameless youth trying to rise with the power of his actions, and if you believe he (or anyone, for that matter) can do that without many failures and shortcomings...well, you either don't have much experience or think that kind of realism is not worth portraying in fiction.

and quite frankly, I'm surprised that after claiming to follow the anime for 70+ episodes you'd decide not to see through 4 more of them. well, it's your call of course, but for what it's worth, you should try finishing this season to see if your opinion of it remains as it is.

Thaosen said:


As I've outlined in my post, the problem isn't that he's showing a weakness, it's the fact that the author pretty much threw the character way too far below everybody in THE most important factor to be a general. With what I've seen in the two last episodes, it is clear to me that Xin is simply someone with great strength but which is way too limited by his intelligence. As I've said, being good at duels is a minor point in the general image. Li Mu is probably among the best generals right now and he's a tactician from what we've seen so far.

Just look at how his own group reacted when they learned that Xin was the one coming up with the strategies, it was truly pathetic and shows how much his own group believes in him. The general of his army was Qiang Lei, not him. In the last war, most of his credit came from beating Lun Hu. Do you really think Qiang Lei wouldn't have been able to beat him ? I think she would have beaten him much more easily than Xin did.

I like when main characters do evolves. But honestly, when an author present us a character at the point where the stupidity of this character is among his biggest trait, it becomes absurd to think that he might become smart.

Also, since he obviously learned nothing from the previous fights he did with Qiang Lei, what makes you think he will learn anything with Diao ? Or, will he learn for 1000 man, then will be completely clueless again when he reaches 10 000 man ?

At this point, he should try to become the best warrior in an army... But that would break everything before. Honestly, it would have been better in my opinion if he was supert smart and had to rely on his friends for the duels, like Li Mu did by using Pang Nuan.

The worst is that before these 2 last episodes, Xin seemed to be ok... Not the smartest person, but not the dumbest ever neither. Now though, with the reaction of his group when they learned he was doing the strategies and his own dumb reaction at pretty much everything... They went too far and it seems absurd to believe in any kind of come back. At this point, it would be like someone who's had major trouble or learning disorders suddenly turning into a genius.

Thaosen said:


As I've outlined in my post, the problem isn't that he's showing a weakness, it's the fact that the author pretty ........

Thaosen said:
As I've outlined in my post, the problem isn't that he's showing a weakness, it's the fact that the author pretty much threw the character way too far below everybody in THE most important factor to be a general. With what I've seen in the two last episodes, it is clear to me that Xin is simply someone with great strength but which is way too limited by his intelligence. As I've said, being good at duels is a minor point in the general image. Li Mu is probably among the best generals right now and he's a tactician from what we've seen so far.

Thaosen said:
Just look at how his own group reacted when they learned that Xin was the one coming up with the strategies, it was truly pathetic and shows how much his own group believes in him.

Thaosen said:
The general of his army was Qiang Lei, not him.

Thaosen said:
In the last war, most of his credit came from beating Lun Hu. Do you really think Qiang Lei wouldn't have been able to beat him ? I think she would have beaten him much more easily than Xin did.

Thaosen said:
I like when main characters do evolves. But honestly, when an author present us a character at the point where the stupidity of this character is among his biggest trait, it becomes absurd to think that he might become smart.

Thaosen said:
Also, since he obviously learned nothing from the previous fights he did with Qiang Lei, what makes you think he will learn anything with Diao ? Or, will he learn for 1000 man, then will be completely clueless again when he reaches 10 000 man ?

Thaosen said:
At this point, he should try to become the best warrior in an army... But that would break everything before. Honestly, it would have been better in my opinion if he was supert smart and had to rely on his friends for the duels, like Li Mu did by using Pang Nuan.

Thaosen said:
The worst is that before these 2 last episodes, Xin seemed to be ok... Not the smartest person, but not the dumbest ever neither. Now though, with the reaction of his group when they learned he was doing the strategies and his own dumb reaction at pretty much everything... They went too far and it seems absurd to believe in any kind of come back. At this point, it would be like someone who's had major trouble or learning disorders suddenly turning into a genius.

swordstriker21 said:
This is a spoiler from the manga so BE WARNED:

Thaosen said:


Well that's a good thing which will keep me to watch the anime. I seriously feared that the authors changed direction. Seems like it was truly a clumsy attempt at humor.

Thanks !

agequeue said:
This anime so gud, Xin increases the plot armor rating.