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Does chinese animation lack productions of culture?

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Does chinese animation lack productions of culture?
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Yesterday, 7:58 AM

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May 2018
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"Kung Fu Liaoli Niang" and "Yao Jing Zhong Zhi Shou Ce"

Never heard of those, they look somehow low budget.
Yesterday, 8:06 AM

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Sep 2016
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Reply to MalchikRepaid
Zarutaku said:
Right, although unrestricted freedom is an utopia, and women of my taste are unicorns, but what does that have to do with the topic? lol


Your "the top unit that governs the lower ones" quote really makes me appreciate your sense of humor.
@MalchikRepaid Seems I was unintentionally funny, a good thing, I guess.
Yesterday, 8:15 AM
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Jebidor said:
Reality shows that China tightens freedom of speech perhaps more than the Western left, but the economy is a little more free.


I think people in the West or pro-Western Asian countries often forget this aspect of China. It's that China treats Western style freedom as a dangerous thing.

China believes that Western style freedom is not a net positive to humanity. Why? It fears that Western style freedom is like a Huxleyan dystopia. China also believes that ignorance among the population is much worse than censorship. There is no need to pursue censorship actively if ignorance prevails in a society.

Overall, China and the West (including pro-Western countries in Asia, all of them failing badly) have very different models of governance in the first place. But why should the West impose its way of governance onto China? It's the 21st century. There shouldn't be any Western imperialism around the world by now.

Don't give me the "muh human rights" approach because the West is also the worst offender of human rights.
Yesterday, 8:22 AM

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MalchikRepaid said:
China also believes that ignorance among the population is much worse than censorship.

I have trouble with making sense of this comparison, doesn't censorship promote ignorance?
Yesterday, 8:25 AM
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Zarutaku said:
I can't make sense of this comparison, because censorship promotes ignorance.


Censorship will make people gradually more curious, so censorship is the direct opposite of ignorance in so many instances.

Censorship in China is more like "be careful with this particular kind of knowledge", not "you don't need to know about it".
Yesterday, 8:27 AM

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Feb 2020
1427
Reply to detarameMAL
To explain:

deg said:
China bans pornography because the government considers it "spiritual pollution" that harms individuals and society, damaging physical and mental health, corrupting social morals, and undermining traditional Chinese cultural values. The ban aligns with broader Chinese censorship efforts aimed at controlling content that is seen as detrimental to national unity, social order, and traditional ethics.

This is true, but "spiritual" as used here does not have anything to do with religion; it's more like "corrupting the minds of the people."

Back when China was actually a communist country, some of the country's leaders got this idea that anything "Western," "bourgeoisie," and "indulgent" was "spiritual pollution" (精神污染). This would include obscenity, gambling, drugs, and so on, in addition to certain more liberal philosophies such as humanism. They thought that this spiritual pollution would undermine China's transition to a communist utopia: if the minds of the average people are polluted with capitalist ideas, how can we build a society where everyone lives in harmony? And, yes, this means that the notion of "spiritual pollution" is largely reactionary to Western progressive ideas at the time.

However, the term "精神污染" was never really defined clearly, since both conservative and progressive politicians were campaigning against this supposed bad thing. This is why it often seem very conservative, even though China was both secular and radically left at the time.

Nowadays, China is for all purposes not left-leaning or communist at all; it is instead rather conservative. So, "culture" and sexualization continue to be censored through this inherited notion of them being "bad for morals."

It's really interesting how what normally would be called "puritanism" by MAL users arose in a secular country through reactionary, anti-capitalist sentiments alone. I suppose Confucianism and Taoism didn't help either, but traditional values have collapsed just about everywhere else in the world when actually put up against with progressive ideas.
@detarameMAL Nothing weird. Puritanism was using some old tale written in the desert, when people shouldn't spend energy into what wouldn't keep them alive or carefully multiply, because food and water was hard to go by. Any culture planning on saving resources would promote it. Can people do debauchery and fun and do 996? I suppose you don't remember Confucianism is about stripping religion out of its magic and picking the practices that make sense.


Yesterday, 8:29 AM

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Reply to MalchikRepaid
Zarutaku said:
I can't make sense of this comparison, because censorship promotes ignorance.


Censorship will make people gradually more curious, so censorship is the direct opposite of ignorance in so many instances.

Censorship in China is more like "be careful with this particular kind of knowledge", not "you don't need to know about it".
@MalchikRepaid Seems reasonable, but does that mean people in China are curious about the censored stuff, and does the government want them to be?
Yesterday, 8:33 AM
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Zarutaku said:
@MalchikRepaid Seems reasonable, but does that mean people in China are curious about the censored stuff, and does the government want them to be?


It's more like "you know it, but don't talk about it in private or public spaces, time will tell that it will be reconciled eventually, but always oppose propaganda from Western countries and pro-American countries in Asia because these countries just want China to become weak again as they're using human rights and democracy as piss poor excuses".
Yesterday, 8:42 AM

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Reply to MalchikRepaid
Zarutaku said:
@MalchikRepaid Seems reasonable, but does that mean people in China are curious about the censored stuff, and does the government want them to be?


It's more like "you know it, but don't talk about it in private or public spaces, time will tell that it will be reconciled eventually, but always oppose propaganda from Western countries and pro-American countries in Asia because these countries just want China to become weak again as they're using human rights and democracy as piss poor excuses".
MalchikRepaid said:
always oppose propaganda from Western countries and pro-American countries in Asia because these countries just want China to be weak again

That's the first time I heard about this accusation, sounds like propaganda itself, to be fair.
Yesterday, 8:47 AM
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Zarutaku said:
That's the first time I heard about this accusation, sounds like propaganda itself, to be fair.


As a person with a Chinese heritage, I sense this all the time. If that's worse, wait until you read this. I don't talk to South Korean men because they often say in public "let's kill Chinese people" or "the only good Chinese is dead Chinese" in Korean.
Yesterday, 8:58 AM

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Reply to MalchikRepaid
Zarutaku said:
That's the first time I heard about this accusation, sounds like propaganda itself, to be fair.


As a person with a Chinese heritage, I sense this all the time. If that's worse, wait until you read this. I don't talk to South Korean men because they often say in public "let's kill Chinese people" or "the only good Chinese is dead Chinese" in Korean.
MalchikRepaid said:
I don't talk to South Korean men because they often say in public "let's kill Chinese people" or "the only good Chinese is dead Chinese" in Korean.

Sounds extreme, they probably do that because the Chinese government supports their northern archenemy.
Yesterday, 8:59 AM
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Zarutaku said:
Sounds extreme, they probably do that because China supports their northern archenemy.


Not really. It's more complicated than that and this is not a good place to explain this.
Yesterday, 2:23 PM

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I know for a lot of people here the whole notion of culture is basically limited to (child) porn. But that's a you problem, not a china problem
Yesterday, 6:03 PM

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Reply to Zarutaku
MalchikRepaid said:
always oppose propaganda from Western countries and pro-American countries in Asia because these countries just want China to be weak again

That's the first time I heard about this accusation, sounds like propaganda itself, to be fair.
@Zarutaku, I would say it's a rhetoric that's not without historical grievances. China at the turn of the 20th century suffered sovereignty crises, internal strife, and traumatic incidents one after another. The historical events that unfolded have had a profound impact on the Chinese people and their perception of what a government should do on its own soil to preserve its sovereignty. It's something that's exposed to every Chinese person via school or family.

The degree to which these historical events can be (sometimes turned) into nationalist ideals varies from person to person. But every Chinese person is at least taught the insights from that period to the current state of China. I, for one, while were exposed to these historical events, they were then tempered by my family to ensure not to develop a pure nationalistic view. And I think this is very much the main contemporary attitude of the Chinese people in the mainland, for example.

Yes, I do agree it's propaganda, but it's not without truth.




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Yesterday, 6:20 PM

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Reply to Zarutaku
MalchikRepaid said:
I don't talk to South Korean men because they often say in public "let's kill Chinese people" or "the only good Chinese is dead Chinese" in Korean.

Sounds extreme, they probably do that because the Chinese government supports their northern archenemy.
@Zarutaku, extreme or not, Chinese and Koreans don't exactly see eye to eye goes way back beyond just simple supporting North or South of the Korean peninsula.




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Yesterday, 10:25 PM

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Reply to LordSozin
@Zarutaku, I would say it's a rhetoric that's not without historical grievances. China at the turn of the 20th century suffered sovereignty crises, internal strife, and traumatic incidents one after another. The historical events that unfolded have had a profound impact on the Chinese people and their perception of what a government should do on its own soil to preserve its sovereignty. It's something that's exposed to every Chinese person via school or family.

The degree to which these historical events can be (sometimes turned) into nationalist ideals varies from person to person. But every Chinese person is at least taught the insights from that period to the current state of China. I, for one, while were exposed to these historical events, they were then tempered by my family to ensure not to develop a pure nationalistic view. And I think this is very much the main contemporary attitude of the Chinese people in the mainland, for example.

Yes, I do agree it's propaganda, but it's not without truth.
@LordSozin Understandable, but grudges based on historical events shouldn't be perpetuated, they hinder reconciliation and other peaceful developments.
ZarutakuYesterday, 10:32 PM
12 hours ago

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Jul 2019
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Reply to Zarutaku
@LordSozin Understandable, but grudges based on historical events shouldn't be perpetuated, they hinder reconciliation and other peaceful developments.
@Zarutaku, I can tell you the vast majority of Chinese don't hold grudges against the people of the past aggressors. Which I believe is reflected by the Chinese government's actions, too. When it comes to dealing with other countries, China is very pragmatic in action. In rhetoric, the tone might be different. But who isn't these days?




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11 hours ago

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Apr 2009
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Reply to MalchikRepaid
Zarutaku said:
@MalchikRepaid Does that mean South Korean men dislike cute anime girls?


Sort of like that.

Absurdo_N said:
It's because the Chinese government represses things involving sexuality.


Not really true as well. People should really stop painting the Chinese government as an evil entity so easily. We are already living in a world when Western style democracy is becoming more oppressive than "Chinese communism".

Zarutaku said:
Are you saying that Chinese society doesn't have excessive female beauty standards? Because I heard the beauty craze among Chinese women is pretty high as well, which shouldn't be surprising since increasing one's sexual market value is deeply rooted in the biology of most life forms, including humans.


China's beauty standard is much low in contrast to South Korea's beauty standard.
@MalchikRepaid It's refreshing to see someone who seems to be more media literate and better educated on geopolitical nuances than most ppl.
10 hours ago
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Dec 2022
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giantpudding said:
I know for a lot of people here the whole notion of culture is basically limited to (child) porn. But that's a you problem, not a china problem


Very true.

shiroi-ookami said:
@MalchikRepaid It's refreshing to see someone who seems to be more media literate and better educated on geopolitical nuances than most ppl.


It helps that I'm very close to both sides of my family. I'm a literal result of the 2 very different cultural realms, but communicating between the 2 cultural spheres isn't a hard task.

The saddest thing I regularly witness is the shenanigans in the current news and "somewhat academic teahouse" Discord server I'm in where some people from Indonesia and the Philippines blindly praise the West as a paradise despite the current state of the West is not really that great. I gave up explaining to them how my relatives in Quebec are experiencing so many injustices in their daily lives. It ain't the pre-9/11 world of the 90s, people.

And those particular people I described also have a very positive and ideal impression on Japan due to their fondness or more like obsession for manga and anime. C'mon, I work with a person in Japan and she often explains to me that it's like hell in Kobe and surrounding areas. Japan ain't like a very happy isekai world. Same for any other countries around the world. This is called reality.
9 hours ago

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Apr 2009
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Reply to MalchikRepaid
giantpudding said:
I know for a lot of people here the whole notion of culture is basically limited to (child) porn. But that's a you problem, not a china problem


Very true.

shiroi-ookami said:
@MalchikRepaid It's refreshing to see someone who seems to be more media literate and better educated on geopolitical nuances than most ppl.


It helps that I'm very close to both sides of my family. I'm a literal result of the 2 very different cultural realms, but communicating between the 2 cultural spheres isn't a hard task.

The saddest thing I regularly witness is the shenanigans in the current news and "somewhat academic teahouse" Discord server I'm in where some people from Indonesia and the Philippines blindly praise the West as a paradise despite the current state of the West is not really that great. I gave up explaining to them how my relatives in Quebec are experiencing so many injustices in their daily lives. It ain't the pre-9/11 world of the 90s, people.

And those particular people I described also have a very positive and ideal impression on Japan due to their fondness or more like obsession for manga and anime. C'mon, I work with a person in Japan and she often explains to me that it's like hell in Kobe and surrounding areas. Japan ain't like a very happy isekai world. Same for any other countries around the world. This is called reality.
@MalchikRepaid I can relate a lot to your experiences. You know, that's why I don't like engaging myself in this kind of discussions, esp not online, bc I figured it's a waste of time (it's already frustrating enough in real life). I grew up trilingual, with cantonese as one of them, but in the west, in the bubble of mainstream education and media. The riots in HK woke me up (being fluent in cantonese somewhat helped me sort out the western propaganda and the real situation there too) and made me more critical of mainstream media and what I have been taught till now, not just related to China.

It doesn't surprise me that ppl from the Philippines and Indonesia have this image of the West. They are countries heavily influenced by the West, esp since the political elite is very close to the West as well. I'm fluent in japanese too, bc my major was japanese studies. Even though there are lots of things I appreciate about Japan, the blind adoration ppl have for the country, and the ignorance ppl display regarding the history and current political climate are getting on my nerves. I have a hate-love relationship with Japan tbh. My brother-in-law is of south korean descent but grew up in Japan, so like the person in Japan you worked with, he doesn't care about the obsession and ideal impression of Japan bc he knows better.
9 hours ago

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Sep 2016
20865
Reply to giantpudding
I know for a lot of people here the whole notion of culture is basically limited to (child) porn. But that's a you problem, not a china problem
Not a problem for me, since I don't care about chinese animation, I just took notice of this lack, and brought a little attention to it.
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