DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
| Atrocious. Ange dies because Battler is an idiot, and proceeds to use the blue on ridiculous explanations, and since Beatrice didn't bother countering anything, she dies. Then we have Lambda-delta refute all of the explanations, and then talk about how Beatrice will lose, even thought I thought it was clear she had already lost. This felt like a waste of an episode to me. 3/10. |
noteDhero said: Atrocious. Ange dies because Battler is an idiot, and proceeds to use the blue on ridiculous explanations, and since Beatrice didn't bother countering anything, she dies. Then we have Lambda-delta refute all of the explanations, and then talk about how Beatrice will lose, even thought I thought it was clear she had already lost. This felt like a waste of an episode to me. 3/10. Ange "died" because she told Battler who she was. She was only a piece of Bernkastel after all. And Beatrice didn't actually lose either, since neither of the theories or truths got proven. So the Battle is still on-going. |
Sasu-neko said: Ange "died" because she told Battler who she was. She was only a piece of Bernkastel after all. And Beatrice didn't actually lose either, since neither of the theories or truths got proven. So the Battle is still on-going. I understand why she died. I'm just saying that it's lame, since she was the little spark of life the show had for me. Didn't Beatrice say she lost? What was the point of Beatrice's "ghost" if she hadn't died? We saw her revive from the other faulty blue truths, so why didn't the same happen the second time? |
| She just gave up and is kind of like how Battler was when he lost his soul. So she's not exactly dead. |
| I understand what I saw, but then if she's not dead (and Lambdadelta has already said she isn't yet), what is the point of the ghost? It just seems pointless to do that second "death scene" when she could/should have just said it outright. edit: read your edit moldy. Losing her will to fight isn't a good enough explanation for the second death since she was so easily energized just seconds before. |
noteDhero said: Losing her will to fight isn't a good enough explanation for the second death since she was so easily energized just seconds before. DEEN fails again for not showing any of Beato's thoughts in this scene. She was trying to make him mad on purpose so he would kill her. She wasn't really trying to win. |
| I don't think it's DEEN's fault for that one. Just from the anime you can theorize that she is just that tired; as soon as the last ditch plan didn't work and Battler wasn't competent enough to finish her AGAIN nor remember what she wanted him to remember, she just went "bah, I don't care anymore, the miracle didn't work and it won't. I'm disappoint." The only thing missing from the anime for a complete understanding are the shackles imo. |
 |
| What the heck was up with the ending? =__________= blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah... still... it deserves an overall 8 for the show methinks |
 |
| Battler's not the same family. Isn't that cheating xD Well it was an okay ending for the season. Beato won't win, but maybe Bern will~ |
Tosi ystävyys ei jäädy pakkasella! Thank you for your visit. Welcome again! |
| He is. He's just not Asumu's son. He could still be, and most likely is, Rudolf's son, and Kinzo's grandson. It's not really cheating. If anything, it could be a motive for Kyrie. |
thatsimple said: I read somewhere that Kinzo was somehow angry that Rosa named her daughter Maria. (I haven't played the VN - so yeah, I lack information compared to those who have played- feel free to inform me more) :P Yes, that's correct. Read the Pony theory for more informations. |
| That bomb thing is crazy, but foreshadowed (small bombs, ticking clocks). It's also a good explanation of the final riddle. JackFrost said: Although this still doesn't explain some things, since it would probably seem obvious to people discovering the crime scene if a bomb had gone off, and doesn't explain why only the corpses of the "survivors" are missing. The bomb shred the corpses; that's why only random bones (ie Maria's jaw) can be found. The bomb itself may be located behind the portrait, which would explain why the EP1 cousin corpses were FUBARed. The bomb also causes a landslide, which obliterates the Main House, the Guest House, the Chapel, and only spares Kuwadorian. As you said, EVA-Beatrice + Siestas attacking Beatrice may represent her trying to defuse it (...was she shooting the bomb with a Winchester? lol Eva). As she fails, she runs to Kuwadorian. Battler was supposed to be following her, so her breaking down under all the stress/pain and killing him would have to be before going to Kuwadorian (his corpse would be found by the police). In EP2 Rosa and Maria were running from the landslide caused by the bomb instead of goats. In EP4 no one person was alive besides Battler, except the bomb was still alive (active) and killed Battler at 24:00. It's another one of those "so much crack" theories, but since it's based on the epitaph, and wouldn't be out of the blue (Kinzo interest about loading mechanisms in explosives and guns, characters having experiences in mines), and would also be something that already exists (instead of a fictional virus or biological weapon that violates Knox, it could just be dynamite)... |
|
dioptase said: thatsimple said: I read somewhere that Kinzo was somehow angry that Rosa named her daughter Maria. (I haven't played the VN - so yeah, I lack information compared to those who have played- feel free to inform me more) :P Yes, that's correct. Read the Pony theory for more informations. Uploaded for their convenience  |
| Hmm as a whole the anime didn't pick up until after the 2nd arc and I only stuck around just in case it would stop sucking. Then after turning out to be not that bad after all I was actually intrigued but it fell flat on it's ass when it ended pretty badly. Still all in all I gave it a 7. |
| Forum signatures are annoying. |
| I liked the Pony theory up until it tries to tie everything into the game boards. It just doesn't fit at all for me, since I feel like the killer and the extra person are one in the same. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't think that a couple of people in the family, and the servants are in on it, but the extra person is either an equal accomplice with a family member, or the main person pulling the strings of multiple family members. |
moldy_tomato said: Your post made me believe in the bomb theory too. :) So in Ep1 when the clock reached 24:00, the bomb immediately exploded. It happened so fast that Battler never noticed it, and after death he had an experience of seeing Maria run to Beatrice and hearing them laugh together. So he was already in the "meta world". Edit: Was it mentioned in Ep4 that the mansion on Rokkenjima was destroyed? I'm asking because I can't remember for sure. At least Ange couldn't find it on the island. Edit2: sigh... Still 71 more posts for this thread to break the record for the longest Umineko discussion thread on MAL. Edit3: It still leaves the question about who was the person behind the bomb. We were shown a Kinzo that thought that his descendants were worthless and would leave them nothing. For that kind of person it might not be strange to install a powerful bomb behind the portrait of Beatrice. (and even name the bomb itself "Beatrice") If we assume that the killer knows about the bomb, then it might explain why the people to be murdered are chosen randomly. The killer doesn't care who he/she kills. Everyone is going to die anyway. The bomb theory bugs me: Eva, the sole survivor in EP3, sold off a considerable portion of Kinzo's rare books and other 'magical' possessions locked in his study. She wouldn't have been able to do so if the mansion had blown up. |
thatsimple said: Thanks for uploading the "Pony Theory" MarthX. :) Why do I have a feeling Shannon really likes Batter and not George? @.@ Well... When I first watched the anime, and Shannon was introduced to Battler (again), Shannon blushed. I felt a chemistry between them. Really wasn't expecting a ShannonXGeorge till George proposed. Well shes probably just shy that's why she blushed... Still... If she truly loves George, she should have accepted his proposal immediately right? Why wait I mean... Plush... She really wasn't that happy when George proposed, and George "ordered" her to accept the ring. We're not really sure if George asked nicely or he did it forcefully. Cause she did reply "well since its an order". Although she did wear it on the next day (too bad shes dead), I have my theory on that though. Anyway I could still be wrong about a possibility Shannon likes Batter. :) So I have a strong feeling the servants are really behind this... Especially Kanon and Shannon. Mostly Shannon.. hehehe don't get me wrong! I have nothing against her.. It's just that, the servants have their own master keys, and remember in the first arc? Legend of the golden witch? The 6 first people who died in the shed. Their faces were ripped, it was impossible to recognize them immediately except for the clothes they were wearing. Shannon was one of the six, and she was wearing the ring which immediately made them identify the corpse was Shannon. But in the next arc Beatrice made the first 6 murder distinguishable, she sees trough it that their faces can be identified immediately, but - Shannon is not one of the six this time. In the first arc, the first six who died couldn't possibly be done by the person X since in ep4, Beatrice already stated in Red that there are only 17 people in the island and no person X which was applied in all games. If that really is the case, then definitely one of them is the culprit. The shed was locked and of course it can only be opened and locked again to those who have a key. Plus the first one who noticed something is weird on the shed was Kanon. So anyway fast forward >>> There was something burning and it smelled. Kumisawa and Kanon checked it out. But later, Kanon asked Kumisawa to stay (okay why would you do that? 2 heads is definitely better than 1). What Kanon found was a dead body of Kinzo - if Kinzo really didn't exist in the first place then obviously what Kanon found was definitely not Kinzo and he lied. Kanon probably met the real culprit there. If the rest were inside the mansion, so the one he met there was definitely one of the 6 who they thought died. If it was his sister then he was obviously trying to stop his sister to continue whatever she was doing (thats probably why we see Kanon is talking to some butterflies explaining he really isn't a furniture), but Shannon insisted and stabbed Kanon. Realizing she really couldn't kill her own brother, she fled immediately. Cause yeah, if the culprit wanted to kill everybody, the culprit would have made sure the witness(Kanon) dies, like stabbing him in the head or ripping his face too. Kanon definitely met the culprit and he just couldn't say who it was since it was his sister. Anyway this is my theory. :D Heres some red text in the VN that they didn't show in the anime to help you for Kanon's death in EP1. - All of the survivors have alibis! - Let us include the dead as well!! - In short, no kind of human or dead person on the island could have killed Kanon! - Kanon did not commit suicide. - Kanon did not die in an accident! |
| The only explanation is : |
| I didnt really enjoy it, I expected far more from the ending on this. I rated it 3/5 |
 |
moldy_tomato said: dioptase said: The only explanation is : It isn't actually the ONLY explanation. You could explain it also by saying that Kanon had a sickness that killed him. Kanon tried to fake his death with a stake and fake blood. (or real blood from other person) When Nanjo was "tending his wound", Kanon suddenly had a heart attack and died. How's that? It doesn't violate the red truth. No evidence indicates that Kanon is ill. |
| Oh god dammit. A Cliffhanger ending. >.< 8/10 Hopefully they'll come out with the next season. |
dioptase said: No evidence indicates that Kanon is ill. That brings to mind that there is evidence for Kanon being so weak, he can't lift a bag of... fertilizer, was it? Needing Battler's help. That's probably a clue. Also lol with the shoops originating from the B0MB theory.  |
OmegaDenmadDec 29, 2009 4:54 PM
|
OmegaDenmad said: ROFL! That is great joking! My theory is that all is illusionary. Things happen as a illusion then really it is just a murder. To tell you the truth all of this is confusing but the BD version is interesting to rewatch.dioptase said: No evidence indicates that Kanon is ill. That brings to mind that there is evidence for Kanon being so weak, he can't lift a bag of... fertilizer, was it? Needing Battler's help. That's probably a clue. Also lol with the shoops originating from the B0MB theory. |
 In spoiler my anime list for now. |
| Soooooooo. I guess there will be a second season? Since i haven't read the VN's i kinda expected things to be explained in this season. This really dissapointed me. Though i kinda suspected Maria being the cause of all, since Ange said that Beato isn't a real witch and Marias book having all of the spells and servants in it. If Marias magical power and imagination were greeat enough, she could just have created all of the others with her imagination. Or there is no magic at all, and she is just imagining all of it? The two BIG questons which were left unanswered also pain me: Who is Beatrice? Which was Battlers sin? All in all i think i will give this anime a 6/10. I guess i got to play the VN sometime soon so that i understand WTF is going on. |
 |
OmegaDenmad said: Also lol with the shoops originating from the B0MB theory. Well, Beatrice is a blonde bombshell. |
| I hope Chiru gets animated with DEEN but with a different director Don't blame DEEN for all of this, blame the director Kon, Chiaki . |
| looooooooooooool. |
 |
| I don't know, looking at her filmography, she seems to be spotty and inconsistent. Not outright bad. DEEN's shows are just generally bad nowadays, even the ones she doesn't direct. |
noteDhero said: I don't know, looking at her filmography, she seems to be spotty and inconsistent. Not outright bad. DEEN's shows are just generally bad nowadays, even the ones she doesn't direct. Well people did like Seitokai no Ichizon, and was kind of popular. It finished airing less then 2 weeks ago. |
| Popularity doesn't say much for her ability as a director. I thought she was good creating a mood in Higurashi, but didn't get to the point in the first season. Did a good job in Kai, nearly ruined Nodame Paris, was slow and melodramatic in Hanasakeru, but miles better than whoever is doing it now, decent in Junjou, and pretty bad here in Umineko. So I suppose she's good at making fangirls cum in their pants. As far as understanding characters, plot, and nuance, she fails. So I take that back. Umineko really had fail written over before it started. She's a bad director, and it would honestly take a great director with foresight and understanding to tackle an adaptation like this, and DEEN just went for fangasms. |
moldy_tomato said: Hard_Sir said: There are three questions: Who? How? and Why?... The question isn't even who killed the whole familiy but rather was it possible to be done by humans. ... whodunit, howdunit, whydunit, huh? ;) |
 |
| And the most important if you want to solve everything: good luck. |
| So bad it wasn't even funny. 1/10 |
 |
| Oh my. That was some cliffhanger right there. I'm starting to think that Beatrice is the real mother of Battler, LOL. Also, what the fuck man? Battler didn't even answer the last riddle Beatrice gave him. Maaan, so season 2 will come in the future? This Anime entertained me quite a bit so I'm giving this a 9/10. I hope there's a second season. I need to know the answer to the riddle, and who's the real mother of Battler. OHH, AND ANGE, NOOOO OMFG WHY DID YOU DISAPPEAR? NOOO MAN YOU SO COOL MAN, YOU'RE THE MOST POWERFUL WITCH EVER, COME ON REVIVE YOURSELF MAN. |
| Yes, there will be a second season. |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 22 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )francismeunier - Nov 25, 2009 |
127 |
by Infinityns
»»
Nov 28, 1:36 PM |
|
Poll: » Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 19 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Samu-tan - Nov 4, 2009 |
125 |
by Infinityns
»»
Nov 24, 11:43 AM |
|
Poll: » Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 )LunarEmerald - Sep 2, 2009 |
214 |
by Infinityns
»»
Nov 16, 3:16 PM |
|
Poll: » Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 8 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Plate - Aug 19, 2009 |
340 |
by Infinityns
»»
Nov 11, 2:40 PM |
|
Poll: » Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 5 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )z-pak - Jul 29, 2009 |
533 |
by Infinityns
»»
Nov 2, 2:26 PM |