Why does fujoshi get a bad reputation?

Offline

Jan 2020

776

Because the anime fanbase hates women and they hate women having fun. Antifujos cope seethe and mald, fujoshis forever!

«

»

🍙 Koizumi Hanayo

Dareka Tasukete!!!

Apr 22, 2023 11:46 AM

#102

Offline

Dec 2012

16220

dreamingneon said:
Because the anime fanbase hates women and they hate women having fun. Antifujos cope seethe and mald, fujoshis forever!

Actually, it really just comes down to looks and isn't limited to fujoshi. Typically unattractive people with degenerate hobbies are going to be frowned upon. It's no different for incels, lolicons or furries.

Apr 22, 2023 12:39 PM

#103

Offline

Jul 2018

561864

Zekkenshin said:

dreamingneon said:
Because the anime fanbase hates women and they hate women having fun. Antifujos cope seethe and mald, fujoshis forever!

Actually, it really just comes down to looks and isn't limited to fujoshi. Typically unattractive people with degenerate hobbies are going to be frowned upon. It's no different for incels, lolicons or furries.

Well in real life which anime/manga fan is a fujoshi or not cant be guessed correctly just on look because average fujoshi do not look substantially uglier than average non fujoshi anime fangirl. Try a better excuse next time. Also nothing is "degenerate" about yaoi. What "degenerate" mean to you and what makes you considers incels, lolicons, furries and fushoji having any point common at all that is true to those four groups besides being more visible in the web than irl anyway?

Apr 22, 2023 12:42 PM

#104

Offline

Jul 2018

561864

Zekkenshin said:

dreamingneon said:
Because the anime fanbase hates women and they hate women having fun. Antifujos cope seethe and mald, fujoshis forever!

Actually, it really just comes down to looks and isn't limited to fujoshi. Typically unattractive people with degenerate hobbies are going to be frowned upon. It's no different for incels, lolicons or furries.

What? How do you come with unattractive and how is even degenerate? Lot of anime fans I know are quite to really attractive ... including myself I'd say lol; but for real, I think I look "normal", but surely not unattractive.
That stereotype of unattractive nerds really needs to die.

@Dreamingneon is absolutely right about that. Quite big parts of fandoms just don't like women and / or queer people in them, especially not if they talk about their own perception of things and what it's fun for them.

removed-userApr 22, 2023 12:46 PM

Apr 22, 2023 1:22 PM

#105

Offline

Dec 2012

16220

Sylpheline said:
Well in real life which anime/manga fan is a fujoshi or not cant be guessed correctly just on look because average fujoshi do not look substantially uglier than average non fujoshi anime fangirl. Try a better excuse next time. Also nothing is "degenerate" about yaoi. What "degenerate" mean to you and what makes you considers incels, lolicons, furries and fushoji having any point common at all that is true to those four groups besides being more visible in the web than irl anyway?

This isn't my personal judgment. The reality is that at the root of all these stigmas is always looks. The most vocal fujoshi are often the physical embodiment of "rotten girl." You're making a fair point about the nuances, but that doesn't really matter when answering this question about why fujoshi are shunned.

I'm using the term "degenerate" objectively. Anything that deviates from the norm is by definition degenerating from it. I like harems & ecchi but I won't shove it in people's faces, tell them it's normal and then accuse them of persecuting me when they're put off by it.

Risa92 said:

@Dreamingneon is absolutely right about that. Quite big parts of fandoms just don't like women and / or queer people in them, especially not if they talk about their own perception of things and what it's fun for them.

This is not even remotely true. I know 4/20 wasn't that long ago, but please put the pipe down and come to your senses.

Apr 23, 2023 2:07 AM

#106

Offline

Jul 2018

561864

You probably never seen most of these fujoshi you think are ugly. Look at yaoi con pictures people are probably the most hardcore yaoi fans and not that different from anywhere else. I think this idea that fujoshi must be ugly has really more to do with fictional media that tends to get them a nerd girl look than reality, same media do give same nerd look to male otaku this isnt any truer. And what's the point of insulting yourself, us and everybody here of "ugliness" pretending it is by saying such stereotypes about anime fans would be true? Especially as you probably didnt see most of us so you cant say.

Degenerates have a negative connotation and like beauty standards i can't really see how it would be objective as its always a subjective opinion therefore. Maybe if minority tastes is what you want to get across then just say that it would annoy people less they wouldnt feel insulted by this because its reality. I would not show a yaoi to someone who dont want to see it and most fujoshi wouldnt either. I might try to get people who could enjoy some titles try it when their hesitates but that's about it. I dont talk about yaoi to non yaoi fans usually and most fujoshi dont either from what i've seen. But I'm not ashamed of liking it either so yes i list the yaoi i like in my anime and manga list so that people who do like yaoi or might be interested by a peculiar yaoi title can know about it if they dont and i enjoy talking with other yaoi fans about it but that's it. I guess its the same for you with harem and ecchi. I dont feel persecuted by people put off by yaoi...but i can understand why some yaoi fan would as people have been sometimes pretty rude to them like telling them to kill themselves for their tastes or such things. I think counter attacking then is pretty understandable. Also here the topic literary is why fujoshi has bad reputation so its only natural they come defend their reputation and try to change people mind around it, they were literaly asked to do so.

Apr 23, 2023 3:29 AM

#107

Armosaurus

Offline

Feb 2023

25

I feel like it’s mostly because the average anime fan (straight male) thinks that two guys getting it on is sexually undesirable and the world’s opinion about LGBT issues is still generally in the negative (of course, yuri gets a pass because it’s “hot”, even if wrongly portrayed). My personal qualm with fujoshi as part of the LGBT community is that many of them tend to fetishize and grossly misrepresent gay men. Both Yaoi and Yuri have different issues with how they portray homosexual relationships and it’s very rare to find a title that has healthy and accurate representation.

Apr 23, 2023 4:32 AM

#108

Offline

Jul 2018

561864

Zekkenshin said:

Sylpheline said:
Well in real life which anime/manga fan is a fujoshi or not cant be guessed correctly just on look because average fujoshi do not look substantially uglier than average non fujoshi anime fangirl. Try a better excuse next time. Also nothing is "degenerate" about yaoi. What "degenerate" mean to you and what makes you considers incels, lolicons, furries and fushoji having any point common at all that is true to those four groups besides being more visible in the web than irl anyway?

This isn't my personal judgment. The reality is that at the root of all these stigmas is always looks. The most vocal fujoshi are often the physical embodiment of "rotten girl." You're making a fair point about the nuances, but that doesn't really matter when answering this question about why fujoshi are shunned.

I'm using the term "degenerate" objectively. Anything that deviates from the norm is by definition degenerating from it. I like harems & ecchi but I won't shove it in people's faces, tell them it's normal and then accuse them of persecuting me when they're put off by it.

Well... it just isn't. You stating something is "the reality" just by stating your personal bias and not giving any proof, doesn't make it more real.

There is no way to use "degenerate" objectively and then maybe you lack the self-confidence to do so.
When people are put off by queerness in real and / or queer ships and don't view them as normal, that sounds like a them problem and they don't have to be in contact with me.

Apr 23, 2023 9:53 AM

#109

Offline

Jul 2018

561864

Armosaurus said:
I feel like it’s mostly because the average anime fan (straight male) thinks that two guys getting it on is sexually undesirable and the world’s opinion about LGBT issues is still generally in the negative (of course, yuri gets a pass because it’s “hot”, even if wrongly portrayed). My personal qualm with fujoshi as part of the LGBT community is that many of them tend to fetishize and grossly misrepresent gay men. Both Yaoi and Yuri have different issues with how they portray homosexual relationships and it’s very rare to find a title that has healthy and accurate representation.

Then why most straight females have no issue with yuri? Its untrue that most edited yaoi is unhealthy, people did search every edited yaoi title and 70% didnt had any abuse, rape or dubcon. Misrepresentation is more of an issue but yaoi wasnt meant to be a actual representation of gay men when created but free space for women to express sexual desires. Nowadays its evolving and in yaoi community most people are LGBT themselves, the part of gay people in yaoi creation, edition, community etc...grow, 30% of yaoi fan are men...many that are gay.

Apr 23, 2023 9:55 AM

#110

Delphineum

Dominus Pinus

Offline

Mar 2019

38

Because people love to put others down for no real reason other than to feel better about themselves. And I guess fujoshi is an easy target.

Apr 23, 2023 10:38 AM

#111

Offline

Dec 2012

16220

Risa92 said:

Zekkenshin said:

This isn't my personal judgment. The reality is that at the root of all these stigmas is always looks. The most vocal fujoshi are often the physical embodiment of "rotten girl." You're making a fair point about the nuances, but that doesn't really matter when answering this question about why fujoshi are shunned.

I'm using the term "degenerate" objectively. Anything that deviates from the norm is by definition degenerating from it. I like harems & ecchi but I won't shove it in people's faces, tell them it's normal and then accuse them of persecuting me when they're put off by it.

Well... it just isn't. You stating something is "the reality" just by stating your personal bias and not giving any proof, doesn't make it more real.

There is no way to use "degenerate" objectively and then maybe you lack the self-confidence to do so.
When people are put off by queerness in real and / or queer ships and don't view them as normal, that sounds like a them problem and they don't have to be in contact with me.

Your answer is literally "anime fans hate all women", which is too farcical to comment on further.

Ah here we go. The classic "If you don't like gay porn then you're a bigot!"

ZekkenshinApr 23, 2023 10:46 AM

Apr 23, 2023 10:51 AM

#112

Offline

Jan 2020

776

Zekkenshin said:

dreamingneon said:
Because the anime fanbase hates women and they hate women having fun. Antifujos cope seethe and mald, fujoshis forever!

Actually, it really just comes down to looks and isn't limited to fujoshi. Typically unattractive people with degenerate hobbies are going to be frowned upon. It's no different for incels, lolicons or furries.

Quite literally proving my point. Enjoying romantic stories are on the same level of lolicons and violent misogynists? in what universe?

«

»

🍙 Koizumi Hanayo

Dareka Tasukete!!!

Apr 23, 2023 10:55 AM

#113

Offline

Jan 2020

776

Zekkenshin said:
This isn't my personal judgment. The reality is that at the root of all these stigmas is always looks. The most vocal fujoshi are often the physical embodiment of "rotten girl." You're making a fair point about the nuances, but that doesn't really matter when answering this question about why fujoshi are shunned.

"Rotten girl" did not derive from looks. The term originated in Japanese circles because women who engaged with yaoi arts was "rotten", and too ruined to be married. Again, solidifying my point that no matter where you go the ways that women/LGBT people engage with fandom will always be more scrutinized than those who aren't.

«

»

🍙 Koizumi Hanayo

Dareka Tasukete!!!

Apr 23, 2023 11:13 AM

#114

Offline

Dec 2012

16220

dreamingneon said:

Zekkenshin said:

Actually, it really just comes down to looks and isn't limited to fujoshi. Typically unattractive people with degenerate hobbies are going to be frowned upon. It's no different for incels, lolicons or furries.

Quite literally proving my point. Enjoying romantic stories are on the same level of lolicons and violent misogynists? in what universe?

Enjoying smut about men raping each other is on the same level as platonic loli romance? In what universe?

I could have worded my original post better, but it was actually meant to be in defense against unfair treatment & harsh stigmas. I personally have no problems with fujoshi - I'm a straight guy who literally gave Junjou Romantica a 7.

Apr 23, 2023 11:24 AM

#115

Offline

Jan 2020

776

Zekkenshin said:
Enjoying smut about men raping each other is on the same level as platonic loli romance? In what universe?

To boil all yaoi down to "men raping each other" just proves you know nothing of what you're talking about. I don't even engage with yaoi much anymore and even I know how wildly incorrect this is. Could this not be applied to your "platonic loli romance?" Like loli stuff, yaoi is simply a vessel in which a variety of stories can be told. I'm not denying those stories exist, but to boil the genre down to that is simply untrue.

«

»

🍙 Koizumi Hanayo

Dareka Tasukete!!!

Apr 23, 2023 11:36 AM

#116

Offline

Dec 2012

16220

dreamingneon said:

Zekkenshin said:
Enjoying smut about men raping each other is on the same level as platonic loli romance? In what universe?

To boil all yaoi down to "men raping each other" just proves you know nothing of what you're talking about. I don't even engage with yaoi much anymore and even I know how wildly incorrect this is. Could this not be applied to your "platonic loli romance?" Like loli stuff, yaoi is simply a vessel in which a variety of stories can be told. I'm not denying those stories exist, but to boil the genre down to that is simply untrue.

I was being facetious and turning your ignorant point right back onto you.

Liking yaoi is no more or less moral than liking lolicon. If you feel threatened by this, it's because of your own subjective personal preferences. If you want people to understand & respect the nuances of your subculture, you shouldn't be unfairly judging other groups when it's a convenient chance to pass the buck.

Apr 23, 2023 11:43 AM

#117

NotFred

Offline

Feb 2019

204

Any community can have bad reputation because of some toxic people. Some of Fujoshi can take shipping a little too extreme.

Apr 23, 2023 12:12 PM

#118

Offline

Jul 2018

561864

Sylpheline said:

Armosaurus said:
I feel like it’s mostly because the average anime fan (straight male) thinks that two guys getting it on is sexually undesirable and the world’s opinion about LGBT issues is still generally in the negative (of course, yuri gets a pass because it’s “hot”, even if wrongly portrayed). My personal qualm with fujoshi as part of the LGBT community is that many of them tend to fetishize and grossly misrepresent gay men. Both Yaoi and Yuri have different issues with how they portray homosexual relationships and it’s very rare to find a title that has healthy and accurate representation.

Then why most straight females have no issue with yuri? Its untrue that most edited yaoi is unhealthy, people did search every edited yaoi title and 70% didnt had any abuse, rape or dubcon. Misrepresentation is more of an issue but yaoi wasnt meant to be a actual representation of gay men when created but free space for women to express sexual desires. Nowadays its evolving and in yaoi community most people are LGBT themselves, the part of gay people in yaoi creation, edition, community etc...grow, 30% of yaoi fan are men...many that are gay.

My problem with the take is that... I dunno how I put it, writers want to prove they like to do "good and accurate representation" and end up doing them overly saccharine or idealized.
There are as many unhealthy, and fucked up in some ways, queer relationships as there are straight ones and while cute romances are well, just cute, I just want to have something more interesting and with more depth too.
Now it's evolving away from all that rape porn, which is overall a good thing, but there is so much saccharine stuff right now, it's getting too much, imo. I very much prefer works that find a middle ground.
Also I want my gays doing crimes (that's why I watch Bungou Stray Dogs now.)

Zekkenshin said:

Risa92 said:

Well... it just isn't. You stating something is "the reality" just by stating your personal bias and not giving any proof, doesn't make it more real.

There is no way to use "degenerate" objectively and then maybe you lack the self-confidence to do so.
When people are put off by queerness in real and / or queer ships and don't view them as normal, that sounds like a them problem and they don't have to be in contact with me.

Your answer is literally "anime fans hate all women", which is too farcical to comment on further.

Ah here we go. The classic "If you don't like gay porn then you're a bigot!"

How and where did I talk about porn?

Apr 23, 2023 12:53 PM

#119

Offline

Jul 2018

561864

Well there still plenty of twisted dark stories edited they just are becoming minority. I do love some of them (hell i'm a Kaori Yuki fan and i love Boy Next Door you kind of can't really get more creepy than a story about a mad serial killer and his young male prostitute victim that he end up killing because said victim asked for it as his only way to escape a proxenitism web he was a sex slave for before being major...that one sure is "unhealthy" as hell beyond any level and probably would be worthy of every trigger warning i know of but still i found it beautiful as I do so also with some pretty fucked up but beautiful het romances) but i find a bit worrying to sum up not abusive by saccharine, idealized, without depth and well boring...i mean stories can feature healthy relationships without being all that happily. I understand your point about worrying it might becoming too sanitized in a search for being fair representation but stories idealizing abuse and rape are still a real issue and there still damage some people so its not easy to debate that one, i know some people are mature enough to have harmless fun with dark twisted stories and that some rape stuff is more rape fantasy than actual rape and that the abusive/rapey stories disappearing would not be enough for real abuse and rape to disappear off course but still i can understand the concern about it reinforcing rape culture and some harmful tropes about gays like their evil, predatory, only thinking about sex, seeking young boys to corrupt etc...i dont think discussion on that and gay people feeling irky about it just have to accept it without criticism i think this debates are needed.

Apr 23, 2023 1:25 PM

#120

Offline

Dec 2012

16220

Risa92 said:
How and where did I talk about porn?

It's banter. I'm mocking your original point that yaoi isn't degenerate. All forms of porn & hentai are. I might love me some hentai, but I have enough self-awareness to know it's not the social norm for very valid reasons. As long as I can enjoy it in peace, I don't really care beyond that.

Look, this is veering into the realm of parody. I'll admit my original post looks more like a grenade chuck instead of the point I was really trying to get to. So I'll revise it to this:

The reason fujoshi get a bad rep is because of the bad optics brought by the most militant & radical elements of that fandom. This happens with every group. Also, when I say they're unattractive, I'm also referring to their unsociable personalities. Extremely aggressive, rude & overbearing towards people who don't agree with them. They play into the literal meaning of the term and act rotten.

Now when I say it's about looks, it's a combination of unfair misperception vs poor presentation. Yes, it's not fair to judge an entire fandom based on the worst elements. But often times, someone's only interaction with that group comes from those radical sects. I can guarantee you if a Hololive waifu said "I like BL and my favorite anime is Given" and left it that, most of her male fans would be like "Oh I didn't know that. That's pretty cool." Some might even pretend they love BL too in order to vie for her attention.

And also, unfortunately, there's the shallow reality of lookism. Gaming didn't become cool until the captain of the football team was playing Call of Duty and the cheerleaders are gamer girls on Twitch.

ZekkenshinApr 23, 2023 1:31 PM

Apr 23, 2023 2:44 PM

#121

BilboBaggins365

Offline

Oct 2017

5370

I mean take your pick it's either because they are really common in traditionally battle/sports shonen franchsies or over fetishization. The predominantly male straight fans of battle shonen fandoms do get annoyed by BL ships and the like. The actual big reason they are "despised" these days is way more from self righteous gay/bi men and women who whine about fetishization more so than any straight or sexist dude actually caring about them lol. That and I mean the general image of Yaoi does have a lot of fetish shit and just porn straight up attached to the label (I know the commonality of rape isn't what it used to be in BL but it still has that image really attached to it). Regardless of what some of the sensitive people in the thread crying out sexism think male fans into that also are really stigmatized. Ecchi or self insert male romances still have a lot of stigma behind them.

Anyway if you want my opinion as a bi guy I largely don't care. Most fujos I have talked to seem nice enough (which is true about most anime sub communities generally at least). You do have plenty of just simply annoying and irate fans who demand for certain ships to be made canon but I find that is more common in the Western cartoon community or other media communities than anime.

BilboBaggins365Apr 23, 2023 2:50 PM

Apr 23, 2023 5:31 PM

#122

Armosaurus

Offline

Feb 2023

25

Sylpheline said:

Armosaurus said:
I feel like it’s mostly because the average anime fan (straight male) thinks that two guys getting it on is sexually undesirable and the world’s opinion about LGBT issues is still generally in the negative (of course, yuri gets a pass because it’s “hot”, even if wrongly portrayed). My personal qualm with fujoshi as part of the LGBT community is that many of them tend to fetishize and grossly misrepresent gay men. Both Yaoi and Yuri have different issues with how they portray homosexual relationships and it’s very rare to find a title that has healthy and accurate representation.

Then why most straight females have no issue with yuri? Its untrue that most edited yaoi is unhealthy, people did search every edited yaoi title and 70% didnt had any abuse, rape or dubcon. Misrepresentation is more of an issue but yaoi wasnt meant to be an actual representation of gay men when created but free space for women to express sexual desires. Nowadays its evolving and in yaoi community most people are LGBT themselves, the part of gay people in yaoi creation, edition, community etc...grow, 30% of yaoi fan are men...many that are gay.

Hm.. interesting. I was not aware of this. I guess I have been fed misinformation about BL. Maybe it’s not as bad as it used to be. Usually when I see ads for BL manga it’s super sexually charged and the characters seem forced into masculine and feminine roles, but maybe that’s because I haven’t been actively looking for BL manga. I’ll have to do more research.
As for why most straight females have no issues with yuri, I have a theory that it’s for a couple of reasons— A. The sexualization of lesbians has become normalized in society and you hear many stories of straight girls making out at parties to impress guys. B. Overall it’s more socially acceptable for women to be touchy-feely with each other than it is for men so it’s not “as big of a deal” to see two girls behaving like a couple as it is to see two guys doing the same thing.

I’m glad that BL is evolving as a genre though, and I know from experience that GL is evolving too. Hopefully someday people won’t freak out about either genre as much and it’ll be just as normal as straight romance.

Apr 24, 2023 12:43 AM

#123

Offline

Jul 2018

561864

Many yaoi titles are neither featuring abuse, rape or dubcon nor heteronormative here a list of such titles if that would please you more : https://www.mangago.me/home/mangalist/1385281/ and lot have more romantic stories with few or no sex even if yeah sex oriented yaoi are many just as het hentai is. Its true that besides this list male guy+fem guy is common in yaoi more than real life but such dynamic of gay couples do exist in reality also, and two manly guys together became more popular in yaoi fandom lately. Now if you want stories from a gay man point of view outside of yaoi there is bara like My brother's husband and stories like That Blue Sky Feeling webcomic about a japanese gay guy that was more or less biographical and get popular enough that Square Enix make it into a three volumes manga also if you want more realistic gay stories.

Apr 30, 2023 1:05 PM

#124

Memore

Offline

Feb 2021

8066

I also don't understand why. It is their taste first of all, we can't judge it anyways.

Apr 30, 2023 2:21 PM

#125

Offline

Jul 2018

561864

Anime fans don't want to see pretty guys kissing because they're afraid it'll turn them gay :(((((

May 2, 2023 6:03 PM

#126

oappo

Offline

Sep 2013

229

Some of it might be "I don't like gay" but tbh, I think they suffer from the same problem as shipping in general.

Being hyper-zealous, both very aggressive and very defensive about it, expecting/demanding it to be canonized, bringing it up where it's not relevant, etc. Straight and yuri shippers can get away with it because there's probably more appeal and acceptance (and there's more yuri teasing in many genres).

May 3, 2023 2:39 AM

#127

Yuri-Crusader

Offline

Dec 2018

3912

oappo said:
Some of it might be "I don't like gay" but tbh, I think they suffer from the same problem as shipping in general.

Being hyper-zealous, both very aggressive and very defensive about it, expecting/demanding it to be canonized, bringing it up where it's not relevant, etc. Straight and yuri shippers can get away with it because there's probably more appeal and acceptance (and there's more yuri teasing in many genres).

Acutely Yuri shippers often get attacked and hated because they have their lesbian ships

I have been threatened many times and worse. People wishing me death. Saying me and my family should be burned in an oven, or that they are going find where I live and come and shoot me Lol

All of this because I like Yuri and lesbian ships and are not afraid to praise what I love

The anime community is full of aggressive homophobes that often attack anyone who likes gay ships. We Yuri fans are not excluded from this and get hated on a lot

But I don't give a fuck if people hate me =) Go ahead. Homophobes don't frighten me neither their little threats

I will still continue to praise lesbian kissing,,,YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES

May 3, 2023 2:53 AM

#128