Bridget has officially become a trans girl.

Aug 16, 2022 3:39 PM

#101

RobertBobert

Offline

Apr 2012

24601

TrishaCat said:

RobertBobert said:

If it wasn't for 2022, I would have thought it was trolling. Especially in combination with the right "based" meme.

Well I'm trans
Of course I'd be happy to see some form of representation.

Even if this representation was achieved by erasing the character's cis identity and actually reinforcing the idea that the character became trans through parenting? I think that as a trans you are very familiar with this toxic stereotype.

Aug 18, 2022 11:28 AM

#102

RobertBobert

Offline

Apr 2012

24601

Narmy said:

Rikku said:
Never got into any GG games anyway so i don't care. That said people are crazy if they think a straight male being forced into becoming the opposite gender is something to celebrate. If that's what the person originally wanted, them by all means they are free to do whatever they want. But that's not the case here.

I'm sure if the roles here were reversed (character that identifies as gay just as example) is forced by their parents to only be attracted to the opposite gender and in the end they accept their parents wishes, this would be cancelled left and right. Not that i agree with forced habits in the first place. We really live on a society.

Plus it's super regressive the way that men aren't allowed to be feminine anymore. A minority is being erased by people who would probably call themselves progressive.

_Nette_ said:

GamerDLM said:

_Nette_ said:

GamerDLM said:

RobertBobert said:

GamerDLM said:

RobertBobert said:

GamerDLM said:

RobertBobert said:

GamerDLM said:

RobertBobert said:

GamerDLM said:

RobertBobert said:

GamerDLM said:

RobertBobert said:

_-_Sally_-_ said:
I recently heard the news, and it makes me happy!

I'm sure that a bunch of whiny transphobes are going to complain, but fuck those people.

Retcon literally made him a boy who was turned trans by his parents through forced upbringing as a girl, but you accuse those who criticize it of being transphobic. Classic trans activists. However, if it makes you happy that a cis character whose whole personality was built on trying to prove that he is a real man, was turned into a trans girl to please you, then you probably just don't care about lore.

This is a blatant misrepresentation of the parents for somebody who seems to care about lore. The parents raised them as a girl because the alternative was exiling or sacrificing them per village traditions because they were a twin and per the lore the parents felt incredibly guilty and tried to atone by giving them things like the best education available.
Bridget also never took issue with this notably committing to the identity and their entire motivation is to debunk the village superstition regarding twins.

If you don't believe me, to use your earlier post as a reference, just use the wiki https://guiltygear.fandom.com/wiki/Bridget

Their motivations don't change things, he's still a male character who became trans due to being raised as a girl. If you broke the dishes, you still broke them, no matter what your motivation." And don't arrogantly assume that I'm not familiar with the franchise, I've known it since the 00s and I remember very well that literally the whole idea of the character was based on him being an otokonoko who doesn't want to be perceived as a cute girl. And "if you don't believe me", watch his YouTube his cutscenes where someone mistakes him for a girl.

Their motivations change your representation of them because your entire initial post hinges on the premise that people will simultaneously follow the parents example yet ironically ignore their entire mindset as established by the canon.
The parent's guilt is a major factor to take into consideration and you conveniently ignore it to make your argument work. If anything you should be promoting the guilt the parents felt if you want to criticize the idea but criticizing the character embracing the identity later on would be obviously wrong.

So, you literally want to tell me that if parents raised a boy as a girl for good reasons, he ceases to be a boy who was raised as a girl? Great mental gymnastics, yes. If this is your only argument against the fact that with the new canon, Bridget became a trans girl due to the fact that her parents raised him as a girl, then further discussion is simply pointless.

The character embraced the identity on their own later on independent of the parents. That is a factual statement that cannot be denied per the canon. You can say you dislike the canon result which is a fair opinion.

But the problem is you're saying the parents will be a model for similar methodology while ignoring that the reason they did it was to literally save their child's life and caused them to feel guilty despite the positive motivations. Which even in the most cynical view, a parent doing anything in their power to save their child's life is always going to be a peak example of morality. So if you actually wanted a canonically supported argument against the methodology you would highlight the guilt the parents felt, but you appear to refuse to do so.

The story is obviously a blatant critique of harmful outdated traditions but for this specific argument you are only harming your own premise by misrepresenting the parents.

I repeat once again, the dialogue is pointless. I have no desire to waste my time on blatant mental gymnastics of pushing the gate back from a man who just doesn't even try to hide that he doesn't read my arguments, just arguing with the scarecrow instead. Especially when all this is covered up with clever "scientific words" to hide the actual sophistry.

Then just stop responding. If you're wasting your time you can simply choose to not engage.
Bold methodology to start going for a character attack instead of criticizing any part of the argument I presented when if anything I'm giving you a better way to present your own premise. But by all means keep vilifying parents whose only desire was to save their child in the canon of a series you seem to only care about when it's convenient to your narrative.

Because I have already told you twice that I consider your argument as sophistry and do not intend to continue the discussion. But you continued to prove something to me, including even now distorting my position and trying to impose your context on me. And now I'm to blame for this? No, it doesn't work that way. However, if you continue to obsessively prove to me that the motivation for an act can change the very fact of its commission, then I really just stop answering you.

Yes motivation is an extremely important factor, and more importantly is the mindset of the characters in the game, if you intend to have the parents in the game be the driving force for your critique.
Because your initial post is advocating that people will replicate a very specific lore upbringing while simultaneously ignoring the characters present in the lore. Which frankly is insulting of you to the narrative writers that you would so easily disregard the characters they built up for a political agenda and minimize the character involvement.

My post does not advocating anyone and you continue to argue with the scarecrow instead of my original intentions and text. But since you are ignoring any requests to stop, I will simply stop responding to you.

That's literally what your first post does. It claims that it's harmful because of the idea it incites regarding upbringing, while still ignoring the immense guilt the parents felt in the context of the canon. You can't ignore that aspect of context while also claiming they will cite other context of the backstory.
It also straight up ignores the idea that a character could of their own volition embrace the identity after at least 5 years in the games timeline traveling on their own.

Lol. "Sorry we were horrible groomers, I guess now that we feel bad about it later it must have never happened"

Imagine if this backstory was about spousal beatings. You'd probably have a different tone.

The alternative was straight up killing the child or exiling them at birth because they were a twin and it was their village's superstition that twins of the same gender would bring misfortune. You skipped quite a few steps and the risk of infanticide is a pretty strong motivator for the parents even if they had personal qualms with raising a boy as if they were a girl.

I could go into the meta perspective about story telling as a whole.

But let's step back and point out how retarded this is. Yes it is rational to raise Bridgette as a girl in the context if the story. But taking it a step further in making Bridgette trans is when this becomes problematic and insane.

It's literally walking into a minefield to cater to a minority group that treats their existence with a cult like fervor and tribalism.

Not going to go into the fact that is removes nuances of the human condition and only perpetuates the idea that feminine guys are trans and the like.

Basically it is a lose/lose situation that is monumentally retarded.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/08/18/bridget-seemingly-being-retconned-into-transgender-in-guilty-gear-strive-described-as-cultural-plagiarism-by-japanese-players/

Really a very interesting article that helps to better understand why so many Japanese people are pissed off with this kind of retcon as pandering to western audiences. Especially in terms of erasing the unique Japanese cultural aspect in order to squeeze the character into Western concepts.

Aug 18, 2022 12:09 PM

#103

Piromysl

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Jul 2015

13600

So, they literally just took a well written character, that despite all odds managed to preserve his identity, present himself with his own brand of masculinity and reconned it into a trans person, who out it nowhere decided to be literally everything they stood against for 20 years just to check some diversity boxes? And all of that is a result of literal grooming.
I thought Japan knows better.

Aug 18, 2022 12:22 PM

#104

RobertBobert

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Apr 2012

24601

Piromysl said:
So, they literally just took a well written character, that despite all odds managed to preserve his identity, present himself with his own brand of masculinity and reconned it into a trans person, who out it nowhere decided to be literally everything they stood against for 20 years just to check some diversity boxes? And all of that is a result of literal grooming.
I thought Japan knows better.

The Japanese speculate that the company did it for "business reasons". At least in Sony, they almost openly justify this censorship.

Aug 18, 2022 2:56 PM

#105

Narmy

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Jun 2011

7031