RayReynolds said: I'm glad that the production committees in Japan responsible for the anime that we watch don't rely on the opinions of people like you. And as for SxF, you must really have shit taste if you're complaining about a MASTERPIECE that pretty much everyone and their mother loves. And you know what? I'm glad SxF is focusing more on the gag aspect of the show. It's one of the most entertaining aspects of SxF. if I have a shit taste? So I can also say that you have a shitty opinion yes, sir those are strong arguments  Go ahead then, you're free to think it's shitty. Like I and many others, I'm sure, will think your opinion is shitty. And as for good arguments, you haven't presented any either. All you've said is that you think SxF is "wasting resources" because you think it's boring. Don't like SxF? Then go watch something else. |
RayReynolds said: if I have a shit taste? So I can also say that you have a shitty opinion yes, sir those are strong arguments Go ahead then, you're free to think it's shitty. Like I and many others, I'm sure, will think your opinion is shitty. And as for good arguments, you haven't presented any either. All you've said is that you think SxF is "wasting resources" because you think it's boring. Don't like SxF? Then go watch something else. I would recommend you read my comments that I have written in each episode of SxF in their forums. One of my complaints is how completely useless Yor is despite the fact that she can break all your bones, but they never have an important role for her. I can only highlight the good animation and the opening. |
Jeje2020 said: Do yourself a favor and just stop replying to Thigh Tide. Everyone here already knows how much of self-important asshat she is and as such, a lot of us have stopped paying attention to her and her bullshit lolO_T_T said: Are you under the impression that there being "plenty of people" sharing your opinion somehow makes it more reliable? I do not find it at all an unlikely scenario that "plenty of people" simply fail to understand what makes a show worth producing, as you have. That's true. But there being a market for something, there being customers for something, does not mean that something is automatically good. To make an extreme example, there's a market for heroin. I already did? They take away resources that could be better used elsewhere. What exactly doesn't make sense to you there? A - I don't have to participate in something to be able to point out its systematic issues, and B - that still wouldn't deal with said issues. Even if I suddenly had the necessary funds and connections to set up my own anime studio tomorrow, the pumping out of shallow romance anime would still continue to take away from other, more valuable projects that I alone would not be able to quell. Again, doesn't deal with the problem at hand, see my previous comment. No, you haven't proven to me or to anyone here why romcoms are bad. All you have proven is how much of an elitist ass you are because you don't think romcoms should be produced simply because oh how utterly bad YOU think they are. So again, FUCKING PROVE TO ME why the anime industry should listen to some elitist on a MAL forum instead of their market audience? If you have a problem with the anime the anime industry is producing, why not book a ticket to Japan and air your grievances out to the production committees responsible for making these anime instead of whining about romcoms here on MAL? You say there's a problem but the only problem I see here is that you don't like romcoms so that means the anime industry should focus on making anime that aren't romcoms. Again, don't like the anime? GO. WATCH. SOMETHING. ELSE. It's that fucking simple. She's free to say all the nonsense that she wants but I've already learned from experience that arguing with her is a complete waste of time |
Rosary_Diva said: the romcom they are also fantasies for otakus, where a boring and bland guy gets an amazing and extrovert girl as a girlfriend or several girls fall in love with him despite being a beta character with nothing remarkable. The isekai are not usually different because having several girls who fall in love with the protagonist is usually the most important thing, especially now that lately the isekais tend to focus more on the slice of life, the harem and pretend to be a comedy/parody. Then you obviously haven't watched that many romcoms then if you just lumped them all as "otaku pandering". And even if they are, what's wrong with that? People like them for the same reasons why they like power fantasies. If people find something fun and enjoyable to watch, leave them be. And besides, most of your romcoms are simple, inoffensive affairs. There are far more problematic anime out there that deserves people's hatred. In any case, don't like it? Go find something else to watch. I could not define those stories as "inoffensive" when many times they only show how homophobic and transphobic is the author. |
 "The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." |
Jeje2020 said: No, you haven't proven to me or to anyone here why romcoms are bad. My point wasn't about proving romcoms are bad, it was about them requiring hate due to their continued production harming the industry. I.e, my argument starts with the premise that romcoms are bad as a given, then makes comment based on that. If you wish to argue about whether or not romcoms are bad in the first place, then we can do that instead, but know that it's wholly irrelevant for this current line of discussion. Assuming we were to change topics, I'll first question the justification of your earlier claim that they were "good and enjoyable." My proof of their lack of quality will be aided by having a recorded example of how you interact with such media. All you have proven is how much of an elitist ass you are because you don't think romcoms should be produced simply because oh how utterly bad YOU think they are. First, define elitist. It's a term used in dozens of different, mutually contradictory ways, we need to be clear on what you think it means. Second, your conclusion fails to refute the points I raised in my earlier comment, so it is invalid. If you want to claim that that's what's truly my qualm with the genre, you first need to explain how my earlier proofs against yours are wrong. So again, FUCKING PROVE TO ME why the anime industry should listen to some elitist on a MAL forum instead of their market audience? I have already demonstrated both those. If you think I have not, then, as mentioned above, demonstrate any flaws in my earlier reasoning. If you have a problem with the anime the anime industry is producing, why not book a ticket to Japan and air your grievances out to the production committees responsible for making these anime instead of whining about romcoms here on MAL? Relevance? Even if I did that, assuming I have not already, it wouldn't mean I can't or shouldn't discuss the issue here also. You say there's a problem but the only problem I see here is that you don't like romcoms so that means the anime industry should focus on making anime that aren't romcoms. Again, don't like the anime? GO. WATCH. SOMETHING. ELSE. It's that fucking simple. This is an exact repeat of things you've already said and I've already dealt with. As I said, refute what I presented earlier, then you can try and claim this. And once more, "watching something else" fails to deal with both the actual issue, and even the misinterpretation of it you've made up just here. Distancing oneself from a problem does not rectify it. By the logic you're employing here, your solution to rising sea levels would be "live further inland." |
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
RayReynolds said: Go ahead then, you're free to think it's shitty. Like I and many others, I'm sure, will think your opinion is shitty. And as for good arguments, you haven't presented any either. All you've said is that you think SxF is "wasting resources" because you think it's boring. Don't like SxF? Then go watch something else. I would recommend you read my comments that I have written in each episode of SxF in their forums. One of my complaints is how completely useless Yor is despite the fact that she can break all your bones, but they never have an important role for her. I can only highlight the good animation and the opening. I am not going to go through every episode discussion of SxF just to see your complaints on the show.I have better things to do than that. As for Yor, what do you mean she's wasted? Her role is to play as Loid's "wife" and as Anya's "mother" and she does that quite well. What else do you want her to do? And let me just say that Yor does have her own story arc it's just that it's only the early parts of the series. How about you learn some patience? And if you still think the show is horrible, well go watch something else then. |
Jeje2020 said: RayReynolds said: I would recommend you read my comments that I have written in each episode of SxF in their forums. One of my complaints is how completely useless Yor is despite the fact that she can break all your bones, but they never have an important role for her. I can only highlight the good animation and the opening. I am not going to go through every episode discussion of SxF just to see your complaints on the show.I have better things to do than that. As for Yor, what do you mean she's wasted? Her role is to play as Loid's "wife" and as Anya's "mother" and she does that quite well. What else do you want her to do? And let me just say that Yor does have her own story arc it's just that it's only the early parts of the series. How about you learn some patience? And if you still think the show is horrible, well go watch something else then. in episode 9 she had multiple chances to show that she's hyper-competent and capable too that would have improved her character and added some badly needed tension to the whole thing. She could've noticed that Loid was bugging her and now she has reasons to be suspicious of him. She could know about the SS, which she should, being an assassin, and realized it was all a farce. They could've at least hidden that it was goddamned Truth or Dare Pt 2 instead of showing that up front. But glaring and slapping people that touch her are what she's been reduced to, and the show seemingly has no aspirations for her otherwise. while Loid is perfectly fine at both being a parent and a killer unlike Yor who is practically useless in everything that does not involve killing. oh yeah i love seeing how misogynistic manga authors are even here, it's almost no different than an isekai or romcom writer. |
Jeje2020 said: Nice try, but no, your attempt to change the topic ain't working. You are trying to change the topic. The entire first section of my last response was me observing that, showing how you're trying to, and getting past it to keep the conversation on track. There is no way you can demonstrate that my current position differs from my original one, unless you have just not properly read either my current or previous comments, which I see as entirely likely. This whole conversation started with you saying that romcoms shouldn't be produced anymore because they're a waste of resources. If that doesn't say "romcoms are not good and they should not be made into anime" then you're delusional. Well it does say that, obviously. I never claimed it didn't. My point is that I'm not arguing for that to be true, that is already a given and a different argument to have. I am discussing how "just watch something else" isn't a solution, and why they should in fact be hated rather than ignored. I already explained this to you in my last comment. As for the definition of elitist, I suggest looking through every comment you've made. Your words and attitude are the definition of being an elitist. You're really just undercutting your own insult here. "You're an elitist and the meaning of elitist is you," that's a recursive statement. It carries with it no inherent negative connotations, other than those gleaned from a completely different (and now, evidently, unused) definition. That is why I asked you to define it, so that your insult even makes sense. Again, it's you who have to prove something here, not me. That which I have set out to prove, I have. You need to actively disprove what I've said and prove your contrary view, it is not enough to just pretend I haven't sufficiently shown it (which you would also need to demonstrate, and you have not). Lastly, and I don't mind repeating this since such it's such a simple concept but for some reason you are unable to comprehend it, if you don't like something, GO WATCH SOMETHING ELSE. You claim that there's a problem here, the only problem I see is you and your inability to comprehend simple solutions. I have explained precisely how your suggestion doesn't fix anything about half a dozen times. You have made no effort to show how it does, you have just repeated it at the end of every comment. It is not a simple concept, it is an absent one. You do not have a point, I have shown you do not. At the very least, you could take the time to elaborate on just how you think "watch something else" magically improves the whole situation. This you haven't even tried. |
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
RayReynolds said: Jeje2020 said: I am not going to go through every episode discussion of SxF just to see your complaints on the show.I have better things to do than that. As for Yor, what do you mean she's wasted? Her role is to play as Loid's "wife" and as Anya's "mother" and she does that quite well. What else do you want her to do? And let me just say that Yor does have her own story arc it's just that it's only the early parts of the series. How about you learn some patience? And if you still think the show is horrible, well go watch something else then. in episode 9 she had multiple chances to show that she's hyper-competent and capable too that would have improved her character and added some badly needed tension to the whole thing. She could've noticed that Loid was bugging her and now she has reasons to be suspicious of him. She could know about the SS, which she should, being an assassin, and realized it was all a farce. They could've at least hidden that it was goddamned Truth or Dare Pt 2 instead of showing that up front. But glaring and slapping people that touch her are what she's been reduced to, and the show seemingly has no aspirations for her otherwise. while Loid is perfectly fine at both being a parent and a killer unlike Yor who is practically useless in everything that does not involve killing. oh yeah i love seeing how misogynistic manga authors are even here, it's almost no different than an isekai or romcom writer. Regarding your complaints against Yor, again, the anime hasn't even adapted 30 chapters of the manga. Chill out with wanting Yor front and center. She'll get her time to shine. And as for her being useful, for me, she's already being useful by being some sort of a mother figure for Anya. What else do you want? And wtf is that with your misogyny comment? First the guy above complaining about homophobia and all that shit, now misogyny? How? Because Yor isn't acting the way you want the mangaka is now automatically some misogynist? |
Jeje2020 said: No, you haven't answered anything because everything you've said so far has been downright wrong starting from the very beginning. Claiming that romcoms shouldn't be produced in the first place was downright and inherently STUPID that everything you've said afterwards just sounds like pretentious drivel which it is. I have already instructed you to demonstrate how any of this is the case. Why am I wrong, why am I pretentious? Simply saying you think I'm wrong over and over is not an effective counterargument. And that is what makes you, and everything you've been saying so far, elitist. Given that, as established, all you're doing is denying what I've told you without any further discussion, what you're essentially saying is simply "anyone who disagrees with me is an elitist." I think it's pretty obvious what's wrong with that statement. And yes, everything I've said does fix the problem. It's what any sane person does. Don't like the anime, go find something else to watch. It's a simple solution to a simple problem but for some reason you can't understand that. There is no other problem here except for you being unable to understand that. So again, GO. WATCH. SOMETHING. ELSE. "Not liking the anime" is not "the problem." The continued production of drivel is. Therefore, your "solution" doesn't solve anything, as I already proved about four comments ago. |
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
yamiyugi101 said: hate to break it to you but anime production com panies will not change due to social media complaining they will only change with cold hard cashvoting with your wallet is actually more productive also why should they not produce things because a vocal minority find it bad i'm sorry but they are not going to change a multi trillion yen business practice because of social media whiners please actually learn how business,markets and the real world works It's incredibly hard to tell if you're talking to me thanks to your formatting, but I assume you are. You are making the same mistake the other user did, which is assuming that whatever is financially best for the producers is the best decision to make. I, however, am discussing what is the best artistic decision. Not in the interests of them making a profit, but in the interests of them making good shows. Creating shitty romcoms makes the studios money, absolutely, but that isn't the goal of the creative arts. And thinking it is, as you and the other seem to, only demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge in the field. |
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
yamiyugi101 said: animation costs money that's just objective reality i want more detective animes, horror animes,as well as more folklore animes myself but i understand that the reality is that the industry will always be focused on profit regardless of what i think soi do the adult thing and vote for better shows with my money I have already discussed this in my last comment. I'm explaining what is a better artistic decision, not a financial one. Money is irrelevant to the conversation. also "artistic integrity" was a word created by talentless bums And this comes from where? It doesn't even make sense as an idea. Talentless bums are those who gave up on artistic integrity, not those advocating for it. Your statement here doesn't make a lick of sense. the goal of anime is to make money your feeling are irrelavant Yes, the goal of most anime is to make money. The issue is that that is a bad thing. Making money is not what the creation of fiction is suited nor originally intended for. I've already laid this out to you. Jeje2020 said: You do know that every comment you post proves everything I'm saying, right? Nah, you're too stubborn to see that. You have already claimed this, and I have already asked you to show how. You have not done so, so your claim doesn't work. Also, the fact that you continue to claim that you're not pretentious/elitist and ask me to prove why you're pretentious/elitist while stating pretentious/elitist BS like "Not liking the anime" is not "the problem." The continued production of drivel is" just shows how much up your ass your head is in. No wonder that comment above was telling me that everyone on this site that has come across you has mostly viewed you as a pretentious/elitist asshat. This is just a repeat of your last comment. As I already said, defining elitist simply as my actions, then claiming I'm an elitist as an insult is a recursive and thus illegitimate statement. Continually claiming this, even when your error is laid out so plainly, only demonstrates your inability to argue your point. In fact I don't think your last few comments have even said anything about the original issue we were discussing, you've gone on a tangent about trying and failing to insult me. Again, there is no problem here but your inability to GO. WATCH. SOMETHING. ELSE. I'm not even going to bother explaining the issue here since it's obvious you're just saying that like some mantra without even reading my points. |
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
Jeje2020 said: Nah, I will repeat my previous comments since they're the ones making sense here unlike you. If they were making sense, how is it that I've been able to refute all of them? And if you're going to claim I somehow didn't, do explain how I was wrong. And I have read your points, it just doesn't make any sense to me. All of it just sounds like elitist blabber. The Fallacy of Incredulity. If there's something you fail to understand you're allowed to ask for clarification, you know. As for that mantra, it's a simple but effective mantra, one that I don't mind repeating over and over and one you don't seem to comprehend. So again: Don't like the anime? GO. WATCH. SOMETHING. ELSE. Have you considered that it may not be that I can't comprehend your catchphrase, but that it simply fails to address the issue at hand? Can you prove that it is relevant, that I'm at fault? Also forgot to add. In a reply you made to the other guy, you mention money is irrelevant. Wtf are you smoking? Of course money is fucking relevant. I dare you to try and make an anime without money. We're not discussing making anime. We're discussing making good anime. Has that not been clear to you? Sure, it's important to be creative. But creativity alone isn't going to feed your animators. As I mentioned in a previous reply, how about you make your own anime if you think you're so talented instead of bitching about non existent problems here on MAL? I've already dealt with a similar "why don't you do X then" statement earlier. As I said then, I could, for all you know I have, but that still won't solve the issue nor stop me from discussing it here. |
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
Jeje2020 said: LOL, no. You haven't proved me wrong and the fact that you're using that excuse just goes to show that. So noting that I have already proved you wrong is in your eyes an excuse, and citing it suggests the exact opposite? That's not even close to any form of logic. You've essentially tried to argue "I'm right because you're right." That's idiotic. YOU'RE the one who has to prove me wrong here. And you haven't done that once. There are well over a dozen messages in this thread between us, in each of which I have pointed out how your reasoning is incorrect. If you want to claim that all of these are themselves incorrect, you need to show that, exactly as you're suggesting I should. Simply insisting over and over again that I have not proven you wrong is not an argument. That is denial. All you have done is just spout your elitist nonsense. We have already established that what you consider "elitist" is simply disagreeing with you, and that's a circular argument. At the end of the day, your inability to just watch something else is the only problem here. We have already established the problem is a misallocation of resources. (And here's a hint for you: this and the above are exactly what I'm talking about when I note I've already proven my point, and they're exactly what you need to go after to show I'm allegedly wrong.) There is no grand problem with the anime industry. Maybe issues like overworking and lack of good pay, but when it comes to the stuff they produce, it's all dependent on the person watching. Well you clearly just contradicted yourself, but also see the point above, you fail to understand what the issue we're even talking about is. If the people like it, they like it. If they don't, THEY MOVE ON AND WATCH SOMETHING ELSE. Again and again, there is no problem here other than your inability to just move on to watch something else. I already covered this above. Oh, and heads up, I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure even good anime needs money. There is no difference between making anime and making good anime. They're both dependent on money. I doubt you'll understand that though since simple concepts seem to fly through your head. I already covered this above. |
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
Jeje2020 said: Again and again, you keep bringing up so called problems that doesn't exist. Demonstrate they do not exist, then. Note I have already shown how they do, so good luck with that. As I mentioned earlier, JUST WATCH SOMETHING ELSE if you don't like what you're watching. And as I mentioned earlier, that isn't the issue, hence that is not the solution. How can you still not get this? For someone acting so smart and elitist, you have little to no common sense. That's another fallacy. You need to first establish what constitutes common sense, then show that my position does not match. You made a comment how our arguments have filled up with this thread, well that's more on you than on me. And you figure that out how? This is a back and forth, one cannot speak at length without the other participating. You're welcome to stop your ranting, if this conversation bothers you so. Anyone else would've just shut up and just moved on to another anime. Yet here you are complaining about things that don't need complaining. I already covered this above. |
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
Jeje2020 said: For someone who complained a while ago about how this has filled up this comment section, you seem to like being here. How scathing. Look, you're not going to convince me to stop correcting you like this. Strange as it may seem to you, your taunts fail to terrify me. And again, you're welcome to stop talking yourself. Of course, we can all tell you just want the last word as a consolation prize. As for your arguments, did you even learn anything? What was I supposed to have learnt? I have been explaining why I'm right and you're wrong, in case you forgot. That's not a situation that leaves me with anywhere to grow. You haven't proven any of the problems you claim exist. I think that makes about 6, if I counted correctly. 6 times you've said this, and 6 times you've failed to demonstrate that after I instruct you to do so. Like, really, what is your game here? Do you think after 25, 50, 100, I'll suddenly turn around and agree with you? All you did was complain about how x anime shouldn't be produced and that's it. Well that's just an outright lie. You can scroll up and see me go into quite significant detail about precisely why and how this impacts the industry as a whole. So again, if you don't like the anime in question, GO WATCH SOMETHING ELSE. Already covered, you know the drill. |
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
Jeje2020 said: No, you haven't learned anything. I did point out that there was nothing for me to learn, what with me having been right all along. As I asked before, though, what was I supposed to have learned, in your eyes? You keep claiming that there's some grand problem with the anime industry but all you've done is complain about romcoms. I'll remind you that I never actually had complaining about romcoms as any part of my argument, I simply began with that as an accepted and obvious fact. I told you this almost a month ago. You keep trying to pose this as a question of whether romcoms are any good or not, because that is, I imagine, simpler for you to think about, but that isn't what this conversation has ever focused on. And no, you have not explained why. All you've done is say things that can be summarized as "I don't like this anime and it shouldn't be produced" which is just utter nonsense. Go on then, go through my points, pick, say, 3 or 4, and show me how they can be cut down into what you just said. Or hell, even 1 would do, though I still doubt you'll even try. (For the record, in reference to your next line, this is what calling a bluff actually looks like.) You can claim to go into detail all you want about how you've explained it but anyone with common sense will call your bluff. First, you clearly don't know what a bluff is. A bluff is to pretend you possess some advantage over an opponent that you in truth do not, and with this threat get what you want. Such a tactic relies on said advantage never actually being visible in the open, which would immediately reveal said advantage is false. However, the critical difference here is that I have already, numerous times, proven my position's validity. There is no bluff to call on my part, there is only my existing, wholly valid argument. If you wanted to actually "call my bluff," you could, oh-I-don't-know, actually try refuting any single thing I've said, like I instructed you to a dozen times already. Second, you've tried this "common sense" line before, so I'll just point you to how I refuted that then, above. No, romcoms and anime like them do not threaten the anime industry. Prove this claim. If anything, heeding you is more likely to negatively impact the anime industry than the romcom genre ever will. Wow, a new claim from you. I never thought I'd see the day. Prove it also, then. I'll keep bringing it up because you seem to think it's some massive problem that needs to be fixed when pretty much everyone else will just tell you what I've been telling you all this time: Don't like romcoms? GO WATCH SOMETHING ELSE. Yeah, yeah, same again, still an invalid argument for reasons already given. You've tried the "many people will agree with me" route before as well, I refuted it then too. |
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
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