Danganronpa 3: The End of Kibougamine Gakuen - Mirai-hen Episode 9 Discussion

Dreams_of_Neko said:

Kirigiri noticed something rare is happening with the whole event, maybe it is indeed not the work of Despair, after all, in the beggining it was said the activity of Despair has decreased significantly (only 40 terrorist attacks) and the report Togami received indicated there were no activity as well.

Haha, poor Hagakure...maybe he is the 13th Division Head and that is why Togami told him to stay outside as well? If it was a trap, better have 1 head division killed than 2. I feel like we are lowering our guards too fast with him, because Kodaka. But Hagakure been the head of 13 might have been theorized a lot as well, right? Ah...not enough clues.

Kizakura is a whole case in his own. He was sort of "guiding" Chisa through Zetsubou, and he might have been supporting Tengan because of Jin, but he certainly had a LOT of info on the school and the students, specially the 77th class. There is a chance Chisa´s notebook she usually consulted when dealing with her students was given to her by Kizakura. I even had information about Koizumi´s friend (Sato).

I could swear he was freaking "Ultimate Stalker" XP.

JizzyHitler said:
copied from /a/ but this might be good for speculators to not get distracted

Ogata Megumi, Naegi and Komaeda’s voice actress, does an online radio program. every week after every episode of DR. Some interesting things were said after this week’s episode

The radio after 9th Mirai-hen episode
1. There’s no class trials, no punishments, and no jokes around. Ogata thinks things are fun when there’s a gag character so she doesn’t like the fact that Bandai died early.
2. She’s quite surprised by the large number of underage people listening to radio.
3. She disses Naegi for doing nothing except riding Asahina every time.
4. Then she talks about some everyday stories that listeners sent. It’s the corner where she tells the listeners whether their stories are ‘Hope’ or 'Despair’. All of them are gloomy but she says they’re all 'Hopes’. I’ll add them if people are interested.
5. Kizakura’s voice in the bonus drama CD was recorded before the VA passed out.
6. In aftermath talk Ogata disses Kodaka for killing Kirigiri off. She was somewhat suspecting her death in advance because Kirigiri had too many lines.
7. Sakakura really did die. She told everyone to watch Despair episode to find out why he died.
8. Ogata was surprised by unusually large survivor number in the opening, but she suspects that it includes Togami and Hagakure as well.

Rip in fucking pieces kirigiri and juzo

Rukoudiora said:


Ah, I was just about to provide a link for this, beat me to it.

I find it odd how the main character's voice actor doesn't even know what's gonna happen right? I mean she doesn't know why the survivor number counter is that high nor did she know about Kirgiri's death whilst expecting it though.

I'm pissed that Juzo really is dead though :l

JizzyHitler said:
they only record their lines and they usually dont finish recording their lines for an episode till the week it airs, so she probably only knows what next weeks episodes are like from the perspective of her lines.

kacaj said:
We know that Chisa, Seiko and Ruruka cried before their deaths. From these 3 we can be sure, that Seiko and Ruruka was crying even when the time limit expired and the sleeping drug took effect. So in these 2 cases we know that these 2 have cried even without the killer getting involved. In Chisa´s case we can´t know when did she cry because too many circumstances are unknown, and in Gozu´s case we know that he didn´t cry without the killer getting involved and most likely he didn´t cry at all, so the killer made that imitation with cutting his eye. What I´m trying to imply is that, the 2nd victim was really supposed to be Asahina, and that prank saved her life. Why? - Because she cried without even the killer getting involved at the end of her time limit. This may be just a coincidence, but these circumstances in Ruruka, Asahina and Seiko´s case have too many similarities to just be ignored. And I again managed to make a theory which is weak, but still has a very little chance to be true...

kacaj said:


I´ve just came back and watched the new episode. So I´m moving the conversation to there.
Hagakure being the 13 th head? - Please, no. It´s not impossible, but very unlikely, except his character there is the fact, that he didn´t got summoned to Makoto´s conference, while Asahina did go there... Also 13 th division is: Frontline Food and Resource Distribution - - Even with anime logic its not a fit for Hagakure.

About the new episode, there are 3 things that came to my mind:
1. Ryota´s possible NG code. I think his NG code is that he can´t keep an eye contact with anyone who said the word "hope" in his presence. ( for an interval or for the whole game) In this episode when Naegi says the word hope, Ryota begins to look at his phone and says : - I can´t keep this up.
And that isn´t the only time, when something like this happened. In 2nd or 3rd episode after Tengen says hope while standing next to Ryota, Ryota begins to gaze to the floor while speaking. And he´s even a little relieved when he parts with Tengen.
2. Kyoko´s "death".
It´s hard to decide whether she´s alive or not, because I personally want her to survive, and I´d rather have making Makoto die in her stead. It´s impossible, that she faked her NG code, so the only explanation would be, that Chisa´s death wasn´t counted as a time limit. In this case she would´ve faked her own death, but that makes it even less likely, because I can´t think of a reason for her to fake her death. So I think that she´s like 90% dead.
3. Ruruka´s death.
Like in the other cases the method is really similar. Chest stab seems to be the death cause again, and her body is in the same pose as the others, also she has bloody eyes and before her death she was unmistakably crying,( with this again I´m pretty sure that all the victims were awake when killed ) and that´s where the similarities end.
She has torture wounds on her body, and she wasn´t suspended so she at least had to be paralyzed by the killer to not move. There is candy scattered all around the place, some of them are painted by blood, others look like they´ve been vomitted. Her mouth is also full of candy, in short she was forced to eat her candy until she started vomitting it. There are 2 types of torture wounds, the ones which are cuts, most likely done with a knife, and the other are small claw marks, most likely done by human nails. The weird thing is that, Ruruka is the most brutally murdered one until now, and the killing method suggests that the killer knew the way Ruruka killed Izayoi. It´s like the killer condemned Ruruka, but that still doesn´t make sense. The last thing I could notice is the black fluid on her thigs right below her skirt, but I can´t really tell what is it.
There are so much clues on this body, but they still don´t tell you much. From the deaths of Chisa, Gozu and Ruruka we can at least say that the killer makes the victims cry before killing them, or if he´s not able to do that the killer makes it look like the victims were crying before their death like in Great Gozu´s case. For me the method still suggests that the motive is hatred or anger, and the killer wants the victims to suffer. The most important thing now would be to find out, that why did the killer make Ruruka suffer the most from its victims. I think that he either wanted to get out some information from Ruruka or the killer emphatized with Izayoi and hated Ruruka more than the other victims.

Oh, and do you remember my theory about Miaya Gekkogahara being one of the masterminds? I think it´s even likely now, because Robot Gekkogahara had a computer with data about the participants and the game ( NG codes)

I also have an idea, that how does the killer select his/her targets. We know that Chisa, Seiko and Ruruka cried before their deaths. From these 3 we can be sure, that Seiko and Ruruka was crying even when the time limit expired and the sleeping drug took effect. So in these 2 cases we know that these 2 have cried even without the killer getting involved. In Chisa´s case we can´t know when did she cry because too many circumstances are unknown, and in Gozu´s case we know that he didn´t cry without the killer getting involved and most likely he didn´t cry at all, so the killer made that imitation with cutting his eye. What I´m trying to imply is that, the 2nd victim was really supposed to be Asahina, and that prank saved her life. Why? - Because she cried without even the killer getting involved at the end of her time limit. This may be just a coincidence, but these circumstances in Ruruka, Asahina and Seiko´s case have too many similarities to just be ignored. And I again managed to make a theory which is weak, but still has a very little chance to be true...

Maybe I wrote a little too much this time, but I got pretty worked up after this 1 week long pause...

Manecleis said:


On the subject of crying, I'd like to point out some situations which are, in my opinion, reminiscent of the people you mentioned crying. Don't watch if you haven't seen Despair #9.



One possible explanation:

kacaj said:



Maybe I´m too focused on Ryota´s NG code, but I want to finally find out about it, because he´s the only one who didn´t have his NG code revealed. And the thing he is doing mostly is staring on his phone´s blank screen or avoiding making eye contact with people.

What manecleis is saying sounds as a plausible answer, but then it would mean that the killer and the mastermind are the same person, because only the mastermind should have control above the cameras, because of this I´m a little reluctant to accept it.

I can´t tell whether Ruruka was moved or not. There are some changes in the room at least. She being sexually assaulted ? Not impossible, but don´t you find it a little absurd? Getting sexually assaulted and being forced to eat her favorite sweets until vomitting and also being tormented. This would make it the most cruel and terryfying death in the Danganronpa history, its even above Nagito´s suicide.

About the crying thing it seems to be I was wrong. I tought that Seiko cried before falling aslepp, but she didn´t.

Ruruka was Junko? I don´t completely understand what you mean. I got your clues, but I don´t get what are you trying to say with them. How would Ruruka being the mastermind fit in the story?
And if Byakuya is the ultimate impostor when the hell did they swap places?

I ´ve gotta watch the new episode now.

kacaj said:


Well that video may´ve been to brainwash them, or push them into despair, but that would mean that the killer and the mastermind ( if they aren´t them same person ) are working in a coordination. I can´t even explain that why but I´m reluctant to accept this. And still why would the attacker always use the same method? Despairs always hate regular things, if you take Junko as an example.

About Ruruka it may be true. The things that are against it are that Ruruka is acting practical, and she didn´t push Izayoi into despair while killing him. I´m getting sick of the hundreds of supposed clues and can´t really tell anymore which of them are remarkable and which are just misunderstood.

And Ruruka´s death: I just can´t understand that how would forcing to eat sweets till vomitting and sexually assaulting both fit in one kill. I wouldn´t be shocked either but I´m not sure that the creators are brave enough to add something like this and even adding that strange fluid on her thighs too.

And the last thing is somewhat regarding the 10th episode, but I´ll add it anyways. Do you think that Makoto´s talent ( good-luck ) is existing, I mean like modifying some things? Until DR3 I didn´t find any occurences, when Makoto´s luck has taken effect and done something, but in DR3 there are times when he just has too much luck compared to other seasons. In this Future arc luck saves his life at least 2 times: First when she meets Seiko when being chased by Juzo, then when that fire extinguisher miracuously activated when he fighted Munakata. I just wonder if this is a clue that I can build on.

kacaj said:
And still why would the attacker always use the same method? Despairs always hate regular things, if you take Junko as an example.

Manecleis said:


There is the possibility that it is a twisted artistic way of killing.

But if we want to see this the rational way... What about discussing the assumptions we naturally make when we see a consistent method in a series of murders?

Manecleis said:
@Dreams_of_Neko
Well, I have no definite answer, I'm as confused as everyone right now.
But yes, that's what I mean. By using such an obvious and fancy murder method, we are bound to focus on it and take it as the vital clue. And we would assume this is the doing of one person, since the method is consistently the same.

Honestly, what I just said may be entirely stupid, and it's possible that the truth is one of:
A/ the murder method is just a "fashion" element;
B/ the murder method was just a plot device for Kirigiri to solve Izayoi's murder, but it would be disappointing.

Dreams_of_Neko said:


Ok ok man, will stop with Ruru-Junko theory. Also forget the sexual assault, since i´m the only one who made those observations, then <i might be very wrong with those theories.

Naegi´s luck is very strange indeed. But then, the question would be: what does his talent consists in?. A clearer example would be Ibuki Mioda. She is the Super High-school Level Light Music Club. Why was she considered the best of all? Reading the Dangan wikia, it says that she has a very acute hearing, so sensitive she can hear a whisper from a distance, like we ha have seen a couple of times in Zetsubou.

Their titles says what they excel at, but doesn´t tell what their real talent is. Not sure if luck is a supernatural talent per se or consists of something like...extreme calculation of possibilities or something like Junko´s ultimate analist. Not sure. Same with his Hope title, his talent is about inspiring and moving people.

In DR0 it says that teachers were also scientists and thus did a lot of research on the students and their talents. How much did they experiment on the students?

kacaj said:


I don´t want to think that his luck is just plothshield so there´s the worrying possibility that his luck doesn´t come from himself. If that is the case I was probably wrong with everything. If all 3 of my major theories will fall to pieces I´ll feel pretty sad.

The teachers did experiment enough to give all existing ultimate talents ( well except ultimate despair ) to Izuru Kamukura. I can´t tell if it´s important, but they would be probably able to give artifical talents to others aswell. They should just release the last 2 episodes today and tomorrow and attack us with their truth.

Dreams_of_Neko said:
@kacaj Nonono! There's a big misunderstanding here. Scientists didn't steal the students talent, they just analized them so they could replicate them on Hinata/Izuru.

And you're confusing Naegi with Naegito. When I said Izuru got luck, I meant he probably got it from Makoto Naegi. Komaeda's luck wasn't that useful for the scientists to add to Izuru since his good luck comes along with a VERY bad luck.

Speaking of Komaeda, I made a theory in the Zetsubou side, that I think he has Synesthesia. Copying what I wrote there:

Now, i'm not really sure if he can only see talent, there are signs that he could see emotions as well.

But pretty sure he can see talent in people and I think that Kizakura was aware of this ability. He probably worked along with Komaeda or just used him to find new recruits. Kizakura commented to Jin this year had many students that they had to use more than one classroom. However, after Komaeda was suspended, Kizakura only got to find a few (class 78).

Probably the school wasn't aware of Komaeda's synesthesia, so Kizakura gave him the plane ticket to get him stay far away for a while so the steering commitee/scientists use him to get test subjects.

About Makoto Naegi, I meant it was him that got the analyst talent.

kacaj said:

To clear it up: How can you think that Makoto´s luck´s better than Komaedas? I find it kind of impossible. Komaeda´s luck binds the world to his will, while Makotos, well there are barely even moments when we see it working.
And Makoto having analyst talent? I´ve never seen anything that would suggest that he has an analyst talent. If someone except Junko would have an analyst talent then only one I can think of is Nagito.

Could that be that Nagito´s luck is somewhat connected to his synesthesia? For example he can see the items in colors and can tell which colors lead to hope or which actions lead to hope.

laczy90 said:
My theory: Mastermind is Ikusaba Mukuro. She not died in the first series, and the burned body was iNanami Chaki's, what was left there frozen for two years. First place, she was who make Junko despair, because Junko was never able defeat her. And she wasn't a despair just don't want leave alone her sister. In the first series, after her fake death, she help to the student stop her sister ( I think they defeat her too easily), but Junko died. She become real despair, and now want a revenge.

Dreams_of_Neko said:


It is better because for Komaeda's good luck to manifest, a disaster needs to happen. Well, the Tragedy happened, but it started way before Izuru?
Also, after Izuru shot him, he commented: "He does have good luck". I understand that as a confirmation of his part that Komaeda does have good luck.

Hmm...it's a very weak proof, but it is his way of finding solutions when under pressure or analizing things. In episode 6, Monaka was wondering how someone so empty headed could beat Junko, and then he came with the plan of blowing a hole on the walls to escape, and then in the latest episode with Munakata. I was reading DR0 and Ryoko's actions sorta reminded me on Naegi's when on similar situations, except that Ryoko was more....pro

Komaeda's luck can be directly related to his synesthesia, indeed. I was thinking more of the shine, though. He always said to bring up their talents to the shiniest, so I guess he follows the light XP.

Rewatching the shooting scene, I remembered, why did Izuru put his hand on Komaeda's waist? I was expecting a kiss Is there a chance he put something on his pocket?

I have 2 more observations, but i'll write them on the theory thread. Maybe I should also add the synesthesia one, since it seems to be very plausible.

kacaj said:

Makoto´s luck would be the same then, every time it manifests there is a disaster before. Let´s make DR1 an example. He was unlucky enough to get selected into Hope peak, so he would take part in the mutual killing game, but he was lucky enough to survive it with his friends. Then lets speak about the first killing: Naegi was unlucky enough, that only his bathroom´s door was stuck, but after the first murder it turned out to be the most solid piece of evidence which convinced everyone that he wasn´t the killer. I don´t want to infer that Makoto´s and Nagito´s luck are one of the same kind, I only think that Nagito´s luck has the upper hand in every case.
Let´s approach it from another angle. Let´s study Nagito´s luck in some cases:
- The vending machine. For a vending machine to give out all drinks it has to get broken in some way. Even luck has to follow the rules of the world, so the vending machine´s programming can´t just get corrupted from nothing. If the program cannot get corrupted the only way to get out all drinks is to break it. And from the point that it has to get broken you have to admit, that a vending machine cannot get broken in a positive way.
( After writing it down, it struck me, that this is the worst situation to explain what I want to say, but I´ll still leave it in. )

- When Nagito wanted the talent test in Hope Peak to get cancelled: I wanna say the same thing here too. Nagito´s luck helps to accomplish what Nagito wants, and accomplishes it in the most comfortable way for Nagito. You could say, that before the thing he wanted came true there were disasters, but my point is , that his goal is one which cannot be fulfilled without these disasters happening. In simple words I would say, that not his luck is wrong, but the things he is doing with his luck. Also DR2 proves, that his luck is binded to his will, exceptly the last kill. His luck isn´t the one responsible for the disasters, it´s Nagito who wants to boast hope, and by using his words hope shines most brightly when confronted by despair. For me at the confrontation, when Nagito attacks Izuru still Nagito´s luck seems to have the upper hand.

If Izuru did put something in Nagito´s pocket I don´t think it´s anything good, but is he now really someone who likes to play around?

Dreams_of_Neko said:


Mhmm. Good point. Then, Komaeda should have the upper hand against Naegi if they confronted each other?

And yeah. Komaeda had the upper hand against Izuru since he confirmed he is on the right path to the absolute hope.

I was just following the anime cliché that when someone puts their hand with no reason, is because there is a reason, like placing something in that place, which is usually in the pocket.

kacaj said:


If I´m right, Komaeda´s luck should be certainly stronger, but it´s up to Nagito´s will. So I think, that it matters if they confronted each another before, or after the Junko incident. Because after it Makoto becomes the ultimate hope. And if it´not just a hollow title then Nagito normally wouldn´t even confront him, and even if he would I don´t think he could do that with all of his will/luck. But it´s just how I see things.
There are many fans which think that Izuru isn´t on the despair´s side, but I think that bringing Junko AI to Neo World can´t be a good deed.

As laczy90 I was wondering too, that why was Chiaki killed the same way as Ikusaba Mukuro. There has to be a reason that why did she use the same method on Ikusaba as Chiaki. Or did just the creators run out of killing methods?
I wouldn´t really like if they brought back Chiaki.

kacaj said:


I don't know, rewatching the final trial of DR2, it seems that Izuru did fall into despair, but it seems it's not exactly because of Junko, but Kibougamine itself. Also, they said Kibougamine was founded for studying ultimates. I don't know if they also heavily experimented on them since the beggining, though.

There is also something that caught my attention on Zetsubou 10

Hmm, have no idea if there is a special meaning to it, but [spoiler]wasn't that maze built before Junko? Couldn't had it been built by the scientists to test their enhanced talented students?

kacaj said:
I would rather say that her talent did push her into despair. She herself said, that the only thing she cannot determine perfectly with her talent is despair.

It is likely that the scientists built it, but they certainly weren´t the ones who put the traps inside. They wouldn´t risk their talentes students´s lifes.
But after reading DR0 I find it possible that Junko had the resources to make it herself. Do you remember that Ryoko ( Junko ) at some point got taken to some secret basement near the school?
I didn´t find it likely, but but at this point I´ll just write it down. The secret basement in DR0 for me gave off the same vibe as the one where the Mirai-hen killing game is held. I remember that the building´s description was short but the details which we know are plausible to the buldding where the Mirai-hen killing game is held too. I don´t think that it´s the same building, but I find it likely that it was built by Junko too.

Edit: Do you remember, that the first ep of mirai-hen begins with a narration? Can be the narrators voice be the same as a characters voice from danganronpa universe? Because I think it´s the case, I just can´t associate this voice with anyone´s.

Dreams_of_Neko said:


Honestly, event though this game is the result of the previous games, novels, etc. I feel like we are following what those games, novels show us too...tighly? (can´t finde the proper word) I mean, there are things that haven´t been explained /revealed yet and we are getting a distorted idea.

Ugh. I would like to give a clear example, but my memories of the games is limited and watching them again is a pain. Couldn´t even finish reading the DR0 because I just can't concentrate enough to retain the information. *rant* I have been diagnosed with certain mental condition, but i'm hell as sure I must have ADHD as well, or I had been misdiagnosed, whatever. *endrant*

Monaka did say that the Mirai buil....ahhh, but that building this last game happens is supposed to be overseas.

I was thinking about what Monaka said. The building was still in process when The Tragedy struck, so I have been thinking that for a while that place was taken by the Despair, but was later taken back by the FF.

Not 100% sure, but that voice sounds like Kirigiri.

Ahhhhh! Not enough time to watch all the games! Not even the novel! or the manga! fml.

Dreams_of_Neko said:
@kacaj Not limited, no. I mean, we were being misleaded since DR1 into believing one thing, when the reality is something completely different.

Like, we were shown that the world was sent into uber chaos just because Enoshima Junko wanted to see/feel ultimate despair.

Then DR2 had shown us that even though it is known that Kibougamine studied the abilities of their students, those studies were more extensive than it was believed.


Then DR0 and DR3 are showing us the reality of that school (and the reality in the FF as well).

And that maybe Enoshima Junko wasn't the one who really started the Tragedy.

Ah, and I have been rewatching the whole series after each episode, i'm at my limit of my concentration, but i'm trying whatever I can catch.

AmagiSento said:
I won't believe it

Dreams_of_Neko said:

There are signs of class 77 being experimented on, for example, after Chisa returned from the Reserve Course, Ibuki´s hearing was increased, Tanaka was able to control bigger animals (like the bear), he previously was only able to work with small animals, like his hamsters and the dog. Saionji got taller, but it could be considered grow spurt.