World Trigger Chapter 145 Discussion

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Oct 2015

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Commentator1 said:

OneCommentary said:
I think only the top 3 of A-teams can go to neighborhood. (but maybe I'm wrong because i don't remember very well)

That was before. This time it's going to be a "Large scale Mission" (Rescue Mission). So basically most A-rankers are going.
(Thought Kido probably has some hidden "evil" ulterior motive for the missions...)

Then, I'm right. Mino's unit didn't go in neighborhood incursion because they was only a middle A-team in their best times and the reason of Hatohara performance is only an Emma misunderstood. Simply they never were good enough.

Well, I don't think Chika will be a baggage for the only reason that there are things that only she can do with her monstruous trion. For other side, she is working in her debilities and perfectly she can overcome them when she goes to neighborhood.

In the same pack, Usamu isn't a baggage either. He is a bad fighter but he is a very good tactician. If you think about this, he only have an experience of weeks. Maybe... Can Osamu be considered as a "genius" tactician? Lol
I'm pretty sure he will develop more and more this aspect, and he can begin the A-rank wars with 8 or 9 in comand.

May 29, 2016 1:43 AM

#153

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OneCommentary said:
Then, I'm right. Mino's unit didn't go in neighborhood incursion because they was only a middle A-team in their best times and the reason of Hatohara performance is only an Emma misunderstood. Simply they never were good enough.

Ooookay I think it's time to pull up pages from the manga because it seems everyone here needs to jog their memories:

May 29, 2016 2:01 AM

#154

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Oct 2015

117

Dragon_Slayer_X said:

Botato said:
But Osamu wants to go ASAP.

Well i know that but even with the improvements and Hyuse, i don't really see how they can get past B-1 and B-2. Ninomiya and Kageura are both capable of handling Kuga and Hyuse with normal triggers.

I hate to say this about one of my favorite characters but Osamu is rushing and needs a little break from all that responsibility.

Well, nobody says that T-2 must fight against B-1 and B-2 in last round. Perfectly they could fight against B-3, B-4 B-5 or B-6. And these teams are weaker than B-1 and B-2. In fact, they usually hide themselves when they face B-1 and B-2. In B-rank wars the most important are the points, and T-2 can add more points than B-1 or B-2 without fight against them.
In other side, T-2 are deveolping very fast and they will have their chances even if they fight against B-1 or B-2

Botato said:

dat_le_tat said:
Yuma joined Border because Jin offer them his Fujin, Hyuse is the enemy.

No, Yuma joined Border because he applied through Tamakoma.

Jin giving up his Fujin was to make HQ leave Yuma's BT alone.

I'm with dat_le_tat. HQ leave Yuma alone, AND, the fact, HQ are agree with the inclusion of Yuma in Border... Because Yuma is in Border.

OneCommentaryMay 29, 2016 2:08 AM

May 29, 2016 2:03 AM

#155

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Oct 2015

117

Botato said:

OneCommentary said:
Then, I'm right. Mino's unit didn't go in neighborhood incursion because they was only a middle A-team in their best times and the reason of Hatohara performance is only an Emma misunderstood. Simply they never were good enough.

Ooookay I think it's time to pull up pages from the manga because it seems everyone here needs to jog their memories:

Where is the problem?

You only put the Emma's version of the situation. Perfectly he can be worng.

The truth is that Mino's unit never were in top 3 of A teams, and for that, they never had the chance to go in neighorhood incursions

OneCommentaryMay 29, 2016 2:07 AM

May 29, 2016 2:09 AM

#156

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OneCommentary said:

Botato said:

Ooookay I think it's time to pull up pages from the manga because it seems everyone here needs to jog their memories:

Where is the problem?

You only put the Emma's version of the situation. Perfectly he can be worng.

How can he be wrong about the fact she passed the exam???

I don't understand this logic @_@

May 29, 2016 2:19 AM

#157

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Oct 2015

117

Yes, I think that we have a little problem. It seems that I have a lack of information. I know that only best A teams can go to neighborhood, but as a team. What means this exam? Is it a individual test? Is only a mistake of Emma? or a mistake of Ashahira?

Well, I put this situation in stand by until I have more information

May 29, 2016 2:30 AM

#158

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OneCommentary said:
Yes, I think that we have a little problem. It seems that I have a lack of information. I know that only best A teams can go to neighborhood, but as a team. What means this exam? Is it a individual test? Is only a mistake of Emma? or a mistake of Ashahira?

Well, I put this situation in stand by until I have more information

Okay let's take a step back and look at it from a different angle.

In chapter 85 Kido says those selected will be "A-Rank or higher" and that there will be a "selection process." So it's not just about the top 3 teams.

Second, there are two possible outcomes for trying out for the away teams:
1. Ninomiya squad is chosen
2. Ninomiya squad is not chosen

You can't misunderstand either choice when results come out, so if Ninomiya squad was not but Ema said they were, then he was lying. But he has absolutely no reason to lie.

May 29, 2016 2:30 AM

#159

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Oct 2015

117

Well, information readed. (BBF pag. 163)

Who was mistaken was me.

HQ choose who goes in a neighborhood incursion and the ranking of A-teams doesn't matter. It is only a casuality that Top 3 went to the last incursion. So Emma can be right.

Well, this is a good day. I learn other thing. Lol

Thanks Botato ;)

Botato said:

OneCommentary said:
Yes, I think that we have a little problem. It seems that I have a lack of information. I know that only best A teams can go to neighborhood, but as a team. What means this exam? Is it a individual test? Is only a mistake of Emma? or a mistake of Ashahira?

Well, I put this situation in stand by until I have more information

Okay let's take a step back and look at it from a different angle.

In chapter 85 Kido says those selected will be "A-Rank or higher" and that there will be a "selection process." So it's not just about the top 3 teams.

Second, there are two possible outcomes for trying out for the away teams:
1. Ninomiya squad is chosen
2. Ninomiya squad is not chosen

You can't misunderstand either choice when results come out, so if Ninomiya squad was not but Ema said they were, then he was lying. But he has absolutely no reason to lie.

I was thought that A-rank wars was the "selection process"

OneCommentaryMay 29, 2016 2:36 AM

May 29, 2016 6:03 AM

#160

MisterBonBons

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Apr 2016

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Since the away squad is being built up as their largest expedition, is it weird that they are only sending a bunch of A Rank Members?

I mean I don't recall Replica's maps, but there are a number of planets whose orbits intersect with Midens. If Afto is so powerful they would not only be ordering Galopoula but also trying to maneuver units through other orbiting planets so that they could strike again or prevent from being hit. Take into account Galopoula only had Rodochroun's Trion soldiers, and Rodochroun is coming around as well, they might strike with Trigger users later. If at any time Galopoula, Rodochroun or Afto decide to attack after an A-Rank Expedition ship leaves Border then Miden's military force is desperately drained.

Now that's just in terms of total war strategy, I know someone's these Neighbor countries wouldn't wait for reasons to the plot. BUT wouldn't it make sense to send a mix of A Squad and B Squad. I mean I assume the ship has operators and engineers, I'm sure B Rank agents could act as security or backup while operating other mechanics of the ship.

This is all just pondering the mission, overall I have a lot of questions about b/c sending a fat group of A-Ranks to another dimension feels like bad strategy.

"The big secret to breaking the rules is to make it look as though you're following them." - Liebert

May 29, 2016 7:14 AM

#161

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dat_le_tat said:
... Kazama said that.

"Kazama said"... So Kazama can "read" the future now? He can tell you in "definite" that, if Osamu and Chika performed better, they "could" have taken down Nino? No! What he said was, Osamu and Chika were absolutely useless.... And could have done better supporting Yuma (who got 2 points). And even if Yuma got 2 points, could he still have taken down Nino with 2 supporters? We simply DON"T freaking KNOW! Cause it never happened... We can only talk about what DID happen, which was T2 losing badly...

dat_le_tat said:
And even that how she is, will HQ just accept it? No, Hatohara.

Lol. It's not like i don't know Hatohara... All I'm saying is, do we care that much about whether HQ will "accept it"? They are Tamakoma branch, as long as they pass the "selection", HQ will have no choice to let them go. Frankly HQ didn't accept Yuma either... But again i say... We all know how that ended, Yuma's a Border agent...

dat_le_tat said:
I said before, Jin can forseen all posibility futures, many futures, Jin did explain before, better to read it.

Okay, so we all agree that Jin can see "ALL possibility", meaning 100% read future, whether be that 3 days ahead or 4 days (or some other time frame).... Dont' say it doesn't "work" 100%... As it sounds it like, it malfunctions... And Jin doesn't know some future outcomes... Jin doesn't know "all outcomes" of "all people". But the people he has "seen faces off", he can 100% definite tell if they will be in danger or what not... (so like if Hyuse joins, Jin can know whether Hyuse does something suspicious, waaaayyyy before Hyuse even does it, and can take actions to prevent it and/ or stop Hyuse)

dat_le_tat said:
The mission is known by public, they wanted to know the outcome, HQ can't hide it.

Omg? The "public" has "media" in the Neighbor world? if Chika dies (for example), how would the public ever know???... All the information about what happens in the Neighbor world will be given to the public, "by Neighbor" itself... So if Neighbor don't say, no one has any way to know... And since Chika - no family; no one will be looking for her... No possible way of knowing if she disappear. Only Tamakoma branch will know. But they won't be "telling public" about it... Instead they will be trying to rescue Chika themselves.

dat_le_tat said:
If 32 agents wouldnt comeback, and more is lost, it can be worst.

Whether it can be "worst" or not is not the issue here. It's whether Border is for the "good of the people". People understand Border can't control when enemies attack, or when agent's lives are lost. As long as Border is "trying" to do the right thing, that's all that matters.
Frankly the "real problem" was that C-rank agents didn't have "Bail-Out" function... They weren't even supposed to be in the "fight", but got dragged in, and got kidnapped (well they were helping/ making sure public were evactuated); but that was seen as something that got "neglected" by Border....
This time, all the agents will be A-rank, and if some die or get kidnapped, that's not Border's fault. There's always casualties in a war.

dat_le_tat said:
Chika has a family, she not alone.

Who?

dat_le_tat said:
You know how combat happen in WT, every lost and victory affect the outcome, who want send an incompleted extra person for more losing chace?

You should go complain how Chika shouldn't go to Ashihara? sensei. All i know "for sure" is Chika won't go over her "problem" of "shooting people". This "lead bullet" thing was kind of her "getting over" it... There's no more... and Chika won't become sooo good of a sniper that she can shoot people's weapons in their hand either (like Hatohara). That would be like becoming Ema, and that would take a while, if we had to wait... (probably at least another year)
Chika's going to be sent, as a result of Tamakoma-2 "as a team" being selected. So if Chika's not a baggage, what else are you going to call her? She's basically B-rank at best, if you had to rank her individually; and still going to be sent.

May 29, 2016 7:22 AM

#162

p-kun

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Feb 2015

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MisterBonBons said:
Since the away squad is being built up as their largest expedition, is it weird that they are only sending a bunch of A Rank Members?

Seeing the performance of B-ranked teams, who aside from B-1 and B-2 (who are A ranked in skills anyway), cannot even manage a newly formed team like T-2 whose members were only a few months into training aside from Yuuma, would you send them into a situation without BO available? Under best case scenario, Afto has 13 BT. Under worst case scenario they have more than that. Afto's grunts should be around the level of Hyuse and in Afto, they'll be attacking en masse. Again, why would B ranked teams, who cannot even handle noob team like T-2 be trusted to defeat these enemies without BO available?

And remember, the expedition ship only has 12-13 seats (unless Border wants to cubify the rest, but this brings another issue of supplies). With T-2 guaranteed a spot thanks to their MC status, there are enough baggages to babysit already (Osamu, Chika, and 3 operators, so 5 baggages to babysit). I don't think Border can afford more B-rankers to babysit.

May 29, 2016 7:24 AM

#163

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Jul 2015

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Botato said:
Ooookay I think it's time to pull up pages from the manga because it seems everyone here needs to jog their memories:[img]

Right back at ya. Nino team "got selected". Then that "right" to go was "taken away" from them.
Let's say Tamakoma-2 gets the "right" by passing the "selection" (test), whatever that may be. It won't be easy for the HQ to "take away" that right, like they did with Nino.
We know the branches basically does whatever they want to their agents.
So HQ doesn't have that authority to make Tamakoma branch members not to go.

IF there was an "actual rule" that said "Can't shoot people, can't go"; then that's different. But what really happened to Hatohara, was her team passed all the "tests" (it means the tests doesn't include "everyone have to shoot people"); and was "unfairly" (even tho selected) lost their "right".
Tamakoma branch wouldn't let that go. And if it comes to it, would use Osamu's public image. Saying "HQ stops a Hero, from his mission" etc;, (haha, Osamu hero...) even though the Hero passed all the "qualifications" (selection/ tests).

There's just much more "lee-way" to negotiate here with T-2. Nino team basically had no choice... Unless they left HQ and changed branch, and tried for the next "selection"... or something.

May 29, 2016 7:35 AM

#164

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p-kun said:
...Again, why would B ranked teams, who cannot even handle noob team like T-2 be trusted to defeat these enemies without BO available?

And remember, the expedition ship only has 12-13 seats... With T-2 guaranteed a spot thanks to their MC status, there are enough baggages to babysit already

Lol... I love how you dis T-2 and Osamu, without even sounding like "you are trying"... But no, T-2 IS a "noob-team", i agree (just thought it sounded funny xD )

I'm glad that at least you think T-2 will be "granted" a spot. And IF they are to be going, we both (and everyone else should) agree that Osamu, Chika are just going to be "mediocre at best" as they are; and the ONLY reason they will be going is, because "as a team" they qualify to go.

Just want to "clarify" to others, there will be more than just 1 ships this time (the 12-13 seats thing). And the ships this time are supposed to be bigger? or something... We'll just have to see. Of course that don't mean B-rankers can come, unless we are picking some outstanding individuals. Like that sniper(Azuma?...), Or some operator, or some special SE people might come as part of A-rank teams (so like each B rank "special agent" gets to assigned to different A-rank teams). But that's basically for "specially skilled" a few individuals (even if that...), to use as a tool to "bring" the A-teams together in the Neighbor World. The only one that seems that could be in that category at the moment are Azuma? (that previous #1 sniper guy...) and Nino, or something... There could be some "hidden" SE operator or something that we don't know about yet... that could really help the mission as a "whole"...

Commentator1May 29, 2016 7:38 AM

May 29, 2016 7:57 AM

#165

dat_le_tat

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Sep 2015

160

Commentator1 said:

"Kazama said"... So Kazama can "read" the future now? He can tell you in "definite" that, if Osamu and Chika performed better, they "could" have taken down Nino? No! What he said was, Osamu and Chika were absolutely useless....

That why they learned their own mistake and fix it. Still not enough if Chika still can't shot people.

Commentator1 said:

Lol. It's not like i don't know Hatohara... All I'm saying is, do we care that much about whether HQ will "accept it"? They are Tamakoma branch, as long as they pass the "selection", HQ will have no choice to let them go. Frankly HQ didn't accept Yuma either... But again i say... We all know how that ended, Yuma's a Border agent...

Without HQ doesn't recognize him, Yuma enlistment won't be complete.
http://mangafox.me/manga/world_trigger/v04/c031/15.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/world_trigger/v04/c031/16.html
Away forces need HQ approve as well, it is Kido responsibility, not Tamakoma
responsibility.

Commentator1 said:

Okay, so we all agree that Jin can see "ALL possibility", meaning 100% read future, whether be that 3 days ahead or 4 days (or some other time frame).... Dont' say it doesn't "work" 100%... As it sounds it like, it malfunctions... And Jin doesn't know some future outcomes... Jin doesn't know "all outcomes" of "all people". But the people he has "seen faces off", he can 100% definite tell if they will be in danger or what not... (so like if Hyuse joins, Jin can know whether Hyuse does something suspicious, waaaayyyy before Hyuse even does it, and can take actions to prevent it and/ or stop Hyuse)

Then why Jin pull his Fujin when Hyuse fake stab Youtaro?

Commentator1 said:

Omg? The "public" has "media" in the Neighbor world? if Chika dies (for example), how would the public ever know???... All the information about what happens in the Neighbor world will be given to the public, "by Neighbor" itself... So if Neighbor don't say, no one has any way to know... And since Chika - no family; no one will be looking for her... No possible way of knowing if she disappear. Only Tamakoma branch will know. But they won't be "telling public" about it... Instead they will be trying to rescue Chika themselves.
Who?

She has a family. Q.13
http://chippokenabokura.tumblr.com/post/144144114788/world-trigger-bbf-translation-part-51-of-many
After all, Chika isn't Anakin Skywalker.

Commentator1 said:

Whether it can be "worst" or not is not the issue here. It's whether Border is for the "good of the people". People understand Border can't control when enemies attack, or when agent's lives are lost. As long as Border is "trying" to do the right thing, that's all that matters.
Frankly the "real problem" was that C-rank agents didn't have "Bail-Out" function... They weren't even supposed to be in the "fight", but got dragged in, and got kidnapped (well they were helping/ making sure public were evactuated); but that was seen as something that got "neglected" by Border....
This time, all the agents will be A-rank, and if some die or get kidnapped, that's not Border's fault. There's always casualties in a war.

Border gain money from public support, success and reputation gain their support. If they fail, people will question why and agent family will force their children to quit Border.
No matter how good you are, public care about sucess and reputation.

Commentator1 said:

You should go complain how Chika shouldn't go to Ashihara? sensei. All i know "for sure" is Chika won't go over her "problem" of "shooting people". This "lead bullet" thing was kind of her "getting over" it... There's no more... and Chika won't become sooo good of a sniper that she can shoot people's weapons in their hand either (like Hatohara). That would be like becoming Ema, and that would take a while, if we had to wait... (probably at least another year)
Chika's going to be sent, as a result of Tamakoma-2 "as a team" being selected. So if Chika's not a baggage, what else are you going to call her? She's basically B-rank at best, if you had to rank her individually; and still going to be sent.

More like a deadweight. Chika has to shot people sooner or later, Ashihara never said she will never shot people.

dat_le_tatMay 29, 2016 8:08 AM

May 29, 2016 8:04 AM

#166

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Nov 2013

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Commentator1 said:
"as a team" they qualify to go.

Yeah, well, that's the whole point.

I can almost swear someone said those exact same words a few weeks back.

Commentator1 said:
Just want to "clarify" to others, there will be more than just 1 ships this time (the 12-13 seats thing). And the ships this time are supposed to be bigger? or something... We'll just have to see.

Huh... ?!

Pretty sure during Galo's attack there was only one ship. And according to Kinuta during the BT retrieval arc Border can't send a bigger ship than the one they have. So, sadly, there won't be any increase in number of participants this time.

May 29, 2016 8:58 AM

#167

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566

dat_le_tat said:
That why they learned their own mistake and fix it. Still not enough if Chika still can't shot people.

Did i say, if Chika can't shoot people, they are enough? (Sure if Hyuse joins)
But if Hyuse don't join, even if Chika can shoot people, it won't be enough. So whether Chika can or can not shoot people is NOT the problem...

dat_le_tat said:
Without HQ doesn't recognize him, Yuma enlistment won't be complete.

The point was HQ can "change" their mind... There's no rule that says "Can't shoot people, can't go to Neighbor world". That just happened 1 time. Rule = law, happens all the time. 1 time decision is different. Do you catch my drift?...

dat_le_tat said:
Away forces need HQ approve as well, it is Kido responsibility, not Tamakoma responsibility.

What? What are you talking about... Tamakoma is still part of Border... It isn't HQ's "Away Mission"... It's "Border" away mission. The leaders making decisions, will be the "joint" forces, joint leaders... Not just Kido. So there will be more consideration towards Tamakoma-2. Kido, could even tell Tamakoma to take full responsibility, and that if something happens to Tamakoma 2, they will shut down Tamakoma, or something... (of course all their resources would go to HQ)

dat_le_tat said:
Then why Jin pull his Fujin when Hyuse fake stab Youtaro?

Because there was a "possibility" of Hyuse really stabbing Youtaro. That's why it's 100%, and "safe" isn't it? Because everytime Hyuse is doing something that "could be risk", Jin is in a "safe distance" eyeing him... Ready to stop him, if need be.
You could call Jin's ability not 100%, if Jin didn't know there was a possibility of Hyuse stabbing Youtaru, but he did, didn't he?

dat_le_tat said:
Border gain money from public support, success and reputation gain their support. If they fail, people will question why and agent family will force their children to quit Border.
No matter how good you are, public care about sucess and reputation.

Okay, now you've lost me... What does this part has anything to do with Tamakoma-2... You say, Border sending Chika, will make the mission fail. I say it won't... What else is there?

dat_le_tat said:
More like a deadweight. Chika has to shot people sooner or later, Ashihara never said she will never shot people.

Chika won't shoot people. Ashihara never said she "WILL" shoot people... omg

If he "didn't say" something "will not happen", it HAS to happen? On the other hand he never said it "Would" happen...
You get your logic?

May 29, 2016 9:02 AM

#168

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Nov 2013

22774

Jin pulled out Fujin on impulse acting on his emotions.

May 29, 2016 9:04 AM

#169

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Jul 2015

566

Botato said:
Huh... ?!

Pretty sure during Galo's attack there was only one ship. And according to Kinuta during the BT retrieval arc Border can't send a bigger ship than the one they have. So, sadly, there won't be any increase in number of participants this time.

Huh...?!

Pretty sure this time, it's going to be a "Big @$$ Mission"... (at least it's supposed to be).

Last time, what, 3 teams were sent? This time, "almost" all of the A-rankers. At least that's my understanding....

during Galo's attack, probably there was 1 place, that kept all the ships. I'm pretty sure there's supposed to be like 2-3?

Also wasn't like "making the food and all other luggage" in "cubics mode" (like trion mode, that Afto guy making everyone cubes); was supposed to like make room and save on "trion"(gas) they use to go or something?

May 29, 2016 9:14 AM

#170

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Nov 2013

22774

I'm not sure where you got the 2-3 ships thing from so I'll just assume there's only one.

And the size of the ship is what determines how much Trion they need, not the contents. Touma asked Kinuta to make it bigger because he's too tall and finds it uncomfortable and Kinuta said it's impossible.

Food and personal items (what could they even possibly take with them to begin with...) aren't made of Trion so they can't be cubified.

Away missions have always been covert operations, sneaking in and stealing tech, as well as diplomacy according to BBF, and it will stay that way against Afto even if the main goal is a rescue. Afto has 13 Black Triggers according to dated info from 7+ years ago, even if the entirety of Border goes for the rescue they will just get their asses handed to them and go home.

Like everyone has been suggesting so far, they will most likely take advantage of the brewing conflict in Afto and sneak in to rescue their people and leave ASAP.

May 29, 2016 9:35 AM

#171

dat_le_tat

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Sep 2015

160

Commentator1 said:

Did i say, if Chika can't shoot people, they are enough? (Sure if Hyuse joins)
But if Hyuse don't join, even if Chika can shoot people, it won't be enough. So whether Chika can or can not shoot people is NOT the problem...

Are you sure if Chika can shot people, it won't be enough? Know why Chika got bail out this match? No one there to finish Teruya. Even Hyuse join, one day she still have to face it alone.

Commentator1 said:

The point was HQ can "change" their mind... There's no rule that says "Can't shoot people, can't go to Neighbor world". That just happened 1 time. Rule = law, happens all the time. 1 time decision is different. Do you catch my drift?...

There is 5 teams pass the "selection process" last time, Nino team was one of them, so why they can't join the Away team? Their sniper can't shot people.

Commentator1 said:

What? What are you talking about... Tamakoma is still part of Border... It isn't HQ's "Away Mission"... It's "Border" away mission. The leaders making decisions, will be the "joint" forces, joint leaders... Not just Kido. So there will be more consideration towards Tamakoma-2. Kido, could even tell Tamakoma to take full responsibility, and that if something happens to Tamakoma 2, they will shut down Tamakoma, or something... (of course all their resources would go to HQ)

It is the same situation Yuma join border isn't it? HQ is the one give decisions.

Commentator1 said:

Because there was a "possibility" of Hyuse really stabbing Youtaro. That's why it's 100%, and "safe" isn't it? Because everytime Hyuse is doing something that "could be risk", Jin is in a "safe distance" eyeing him... Ready to stop him, if need be.
You could call Jin's ability not 100%, if Jin didn't know there was a possibility of Hyuse stabbing Youtaru, but he did, didn't he?

Jin ability not 100% until the future make to present. There is no 100% Hyuse will not backstab his team. If Jin in Away teams, then Jin can stop him.

Commentator1 said:

Okay, now you've lost me... What does this part has anything to do with Tamakoma-2... You say, Border sending Chika, will make the mission fail. I say it won't... What else is there?

I never said send Chika make the mission fail but she will increase the posibility the mission will fail. Border need the mission success.

Commentator1 said:

Chika won't shoot people. Ashihara never said she "WILL" shoot people... omg

If he "didn't say" something "will not happen", it HAS to happen? On the other hand he never said it "Would" happen...
You get your logic?

English =))

May 29, 2016 10:31 AM

#172

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Dec 2015

313

Jesus F#CK you guys are a mess!

Let's start with Ninomiya team. The FACTS are:

-They were A-rank
-They are not A-rank anymore ONLY because it was a punishment for Hatohara breaking the law. Not because she couldn't shoot people. Not because they were not strong enough without her.

-Hatohara was an exceptional sniper. But...
-Inukai and Tsuji are master class in their own position and...
-Ninomiya is the #1 shooter AND the #2 overall agent AND the higest trion after Chika AND the captain and strategist of his team so...
-Hatohara was/is in no way a pre-requisite to their strenght.

-Hatohara passed the away mission selection test.
-Hatohara was taken out of it because she couldn't shoot people. We don't know if it really affected the rest of her team or if it was just a clever way to cover up what happend after because...
-We have no idea what the selection process is.

-Ema was in awe of his teacher and misses her a lot also...
-He currently hates Nino team and...
-He is 100% clueless to the real reasons behind Hatohara not being in Border anymore so...
-He is at the very least an unreliable source of info for EVERYTHING Nino team and Hatohara.

THOSE ARE THE FACTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS CONJECTURES.

As for Ninomiya team not being A-rank again yet, there could be a number of reasons beside not being strong enough. For starters we have no idea what the A-rank test is. Also, we know Nino is a little obsessed with finding info on what happend with Hatohara so we don't know how much he dedicated to that. Also, since they were punished by the higher ups it would probably be a good idea not to rush back to the top since it could be seen as conflictual with the top brass. Considering that, they might have prefered focusing on investigating and building a new team dynamic rather the rank wars for a few years.

May 29, 2016 10:41 AM

#173

Dues-aj

Offline

Mar 2014

912

p-kun said:

MisterBonBons said:
Since the away squad is being built up as their largest expedition, is it weird that they are only sending a bunch of A Rank Members?

Seeing the performance of B-ranked teams, who aside from B-1 and B-2 (who are A ranked in skills anyway), cannot even manage a newly formed team like T-2 whose members were only a few months into training aside from Yuuma, would you send them into a situation without BO available? Under best case scenario, Afto has 13 BT. Under worst case scenario they have more than that. Afto's grunts should be around the level of Hyuse and in Afto, they'll be attacking en masse. Again, why would B ranked teams, who cannot even handle noob team like T-2 be trusted to defeat these enemies without BO available?

And remember, the expedition ship only has 12-13 seats (unless Border wants to cubify the rest, but this brings another issue of supplies). With T-2 guaranteed a spot thanks to their MC status, there are enough baggages to babysit already (Osamu, Chika, and 3 operators, so 5 baggages to babysit). I don't think Border can afford more B-rankers to babysit.

Bail out exists on expeditions according to the BBF though. It's just has a range. Also Hyuse was mentioned to be an elite soldier.

May 29, 2016 10:48 AM

#174

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Dec 2015

313

p-kun said:

MisterBonBons said:
Since the away squad is being built up as their largest expedition, is it weird that they are only sending a bunch of A Rank Members?

Seeing the performance of B-ranked teams, who aside from B-1 and B-2 (who are A ranked in skills anyway), cannot even manage a newly formed team like T-2 whose members were only a few months into training aside from Yuuma, would you send them into a situation without BO available? Under best case scenario, Afto has 13 BT. Under worst case scenario they have more than that. Afto's grunts should be around the level of Hyuse and in Afto, they'll be attacking en masse. Again, why would B ranked teams, who cannot even handle noob team like T-2 be trusted to defeat these enemies without BO available?

And remember, the expedition ship only has 12-13 seats (unless Border wants to cubify the rest, but this brings another issue of supplies). With T-2 guaranteed a spot thanks to their MC status, there are enough baggages to babysit already (Osamu, Chika, and 3 operators, so 5 baggages to babysit). I don't think Border can afford more B-rankers to babysit.

I agree with some of what you are saying but I have an issue with others.

1. I don't think it's fair to reduce T-2 to a newly formed team when judging the B-ranks for loosing to them. Yuma is neighbor with tremendous experience and Chika is Trion monster that dwarfs even the second biggest trion in Border.

2. Aside from a storytelling POV, I don't know why you would say that T-2 is guaranteed a spot on the expedition. When you talk about MC status I suppose you are talking about Osamu's public status but status is no way positive... He willingly took responsibility for the recent invasion and although he managed to avoid public lynching at most he was forgiven not applauded, not even liked. When people asked if he was going to be part of the expedition it wasn't because they wanted him to,it was just becaue they wanted to know if he could actually keep his word. And Kido made it very clear that only those who passed the selection process would go and everybody seemed to be fine with that.

May 29, 2016 10:59 AM

#175

dizzyroboto

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Jan 2012

65

Plotwise, I don't like the idea of T2 getting to A-Rank this season.
It's been a long struggle (150 chapters is too much, I know) but I get the feeling Ashihara is nerfing the other teams just for T2 become A-Rank now.
But it would be very interesting if they don't get to A-Rank now and stay in miden while Afto or some other nation takes advantage of the fact that Elite teams are on expedition and raids Miden...

May 29, 2016 10:59 AM

#176

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Nov 2013

22774

LuzNight said:
-Ema was in awe of his teacher and misses her a lot also...
-He currently hates Nino team and...
-He is 100% clueless to the real reasons behind Hatohara not being in Border anymore so...
-He is at the very least an unreliable source of info for EVERYTHING Nino team and Hatohara.

I'm not sure what the point of casting doubt on Ema is. You already said taking out Nino squad from the away team might be a clever cover up.

JCNSilva said:
Plotwise, I don't like the idea of T2 getting to A-Rank this season.
It's been a long struggle (150 chapters is too much, I know) but I get the feeling Ashihara is nerfing the other teams just for T2 become A-Rank now.
But it would be very interesting if they don't get to A-Rank now and stay in miden while Afto or some other nation takes advantage of the fact that Elite teams are on expedition and raids Miden...

It's a fun prospect but how would they know that elite teams are leaving?
If they are capable of gaining that kind of information then they should also know Miden repelled the attack of 4 BTs + the accompanying army. Even if elite teams are away Miden would still be a force not to mess with halfheartedly.

BotatoMay 29, 2016 11:03 AM

May 29, 2016 11:17 AM

#177

Dues-aj

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Mar 2014

912

JCNSilva said:
Plotwise, I don't like the idea of T2 getting to A-Rank this season.
It's been a long struggle (150 chapters is too much, I know) but I get the feeling Ashihara is nerfing the other teams just for T2 become A-Rank now.
But it would be very interesting if they don't get to A-Rank now and stay in miden while Afto or some other nation takes advantage of the fact that Elite teams are on expedition and raids Miden...

I don't think another invasion is going to be the answer. A time skip would probably be the better solution, but we don't have time for that.

May 29, 2016 12:07 PM

#178

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Dec 2015

313

Botato said:

LuzNight said:
-Ema was in awe of his teacher and misses her a lot also...
-He currently hates Nino team and...
-He is 100% clueless to the real reasons behind Hatohara not being in Border anymore so...
-He is at the very least an unreliable source of info for EVERYTHING Nino team and Hatohara.

I'm not sure what the point of casting doubt on Ema is. You already said taking out Nino squad from the away team might be a clever cover up.

I simply wanted to be thorough and discredit all those who used something Ema said to justify their arguments.

May 29, 2016 5:15 PM

#179

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Jul 2015

566

dat_le_tat said:
English =))

Yeah, i think you should work on that... Clearly you don't understand a thing...

Just the clear example is, when you say stuff like this over and over again:

dat_le_tat said:
It is the same situation Yuma join border isn't it? HQ is the one give decisions.

Who is "dis-agree" ing (arguing) with you on that? The point is HQ WILL DECIDE to let T-2, including Chika (who still can't shoot), go on the freaking mission.
I never said Tamakoma take over HQ, kill Kido, and send Chika... Chika will go, and that will be the result of HQ agreeing with that...

May 29, 2016 5:58 PM

#180

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Jul 2015

566

LuzNight said:
Not because they were not strong enough without her.

Yes, Hatohara messed up, and Nino team got demoted to B-rank. But we simply DON"T know if Nino team can be A-rank without Hatohara or not (whether they are strong enough).
Because they "rose" to A-rank and passed selection WITH Hatohara. So we just don't know what would happen "without" her.
Sure Nino is OP as hell. But we were explained how to be an A-rank team, you can't simply have 1 OP player carrying the team. You need an actual decent team. Who was that, that depressing looking short kid (maybe the commentator now?) was telling Osamu on that, on relying on Yuma. Otherwise, instead of trying to "pick points" themselves, they can just try to "support Yuma" better, and help Yuma get OP as Ninomiya or other OP's there are...

Some of your points are pretty good.

The "A-rank" test (to become A-rank), basically you have to be B-rank 1 and/ or 2. Then it's same as those B-rank Wars. With including 1 or 2 "lowest" A-rank teams (7 and 8?), and B-rank 1 and/ or 2; have a "rank war"? And the winner (depending on points?) becomes A-rank, and the others are "pushed" down to B-rank. At least that's my understanding, of the whole thing. So basically the "points" you get in A-rank Wars, should "weigh" more than the "points" you get in B-rank Wars. So that A-rank and B-rank's won't be switching all the time... Once you lose down to B-rank, you probably would have to beat other high B-rank teams "many times" (well considering), to "make up" for the points you lost in the A-rank War? To compete for A-rank War again.
Does that make sense?

The "Selection for the Going Away Mission" is a whole separate issue... who knows what that is.

May 29, 2016 10:44 PM

#181

Matchmaker_

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Sep 2015

36

I don't know where to post this, but the opening color of this chapter had deers with the horns highlighted.

And Kinuta asks this. Possible foreshadowing of the next arc in afto?

May 30, 2016 5:29 AM

#182

Sedgewic

Offline

Aug 2015

72

Some points are'nt too clear too me:

1 - The selection test it seems to be for a-rank only. Doesn't mean all of the A-rank go, just the selected, right?

2 - The test is team or individual? I mean, they may be elegible as a team but pass the exam individually.

3 - Nino team got demoted not too long ago as it seems, so they may didn't have the chance to be promoted again yet. It seems the Rank wars were to be longer, but they are shortening because or the urgency of the expedition, so now Nino will have his chance to promote again....am i wrong?

4 - And, i missed something? where did some of you got this "more ships" thing? unless border is hiding something even from his agents, they had only one ship, as it was stated in galo's arc. If THE SHIP was damaged they would have to delay the mission, they doesn't have a backup ship or more than one.

May 30, 2016 5:33 AM

#183

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Nov 2013

22774

Sedgewic said:
1 - The selection test it seems to be for a-rank only. Doesn't mean all of the A-rank go, just the selected, right?

The selected from the ones that actually try to go. I imagine Arashiyama squad can't because they have to do PR work.

2 - The test is team or individual? I mean, they may be elegible as a team but pass the exam individually.

We don't know.

3 - Nino team got demoted not too long ago as it seems, so they may didn't have the chance to be promoted again yet. It seems the Rank wars were to be longer, but they are shortening because or the urgency of the expedition, so now Nino will have his chance to promote again....am i wrong?

Rank Wars aren't shortening, but basically yes; if Nino squad remains as #1 then they have a shot at going up to A-Rank and then going through the selection process.

4 - And, i missed something? where did some of you got this "more ships" thing? unless border is hiding something even from his agents, they had only one ship, as it was stated in galo's arc. If THE SHIP was damaged they would have to delay the mission, they doesn't have a backup ship or more than one.

There is only one ship.

May 30, 2016 8:49 AM

#184

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Dec 2015

313

Commentator1 said:

LuzNight said:
Not because they were not strong enough without her.

Yes, Hatohara messed up, and Nino team got demoted to B-rank. But we simply DON"T know if Nino team can be A-rank without Hatohara or not (whether they are strong enough).
Because they "rose" to A-rank and passed selection WITH Hatohara. So we just don't know what would happen "without" her.
Sure Nino is OP as hell. But we were explained how to be an A-rank team, you can't simply have 1 OP player carrying the team. You need an actual decent team. Who was that, that depressing looking short kid (maybe the commentator now?) was telling Osamu on that, on relying on Yuma. Otherwise, instead of trying to "pick points" themselves, they can just try to "support Yuma" better, and help Yuma get OP as Ninomiya or other OP's there are...

Well, I'm glad to see you toning down your POV when faced with better arguments. Obviously, no one can claim that Nino team IS A-rank level as it is but I can sure as hell claim with the shadow of a doubt that: 1. Hatohara was good but by no means was she carrying her team and she wasn't a vital part of her team. 2. If Hatohara hadn't commited a crime and just left, Nino team would've been allowed to stay A-rank without her. (Kakizaki left Arashiyama squad and that didn't change anything for them)

Commentator1 said:

Some of your points are pretty good.

They all are. Most of them are not points however, they are FACTS.

Commentator1 said:

The "A-rank" test (to become A-rank), basically you have to be B-rank 1 and/ or 2. Then it's same as those B-rank Wars. With including 1 or 2 "lowest" A-rank teams (7 and 8?), and B-rank 1 and/ or 2; have a "rank war"? And the winner (depending on points?) becomes A-rank, and the others are "pushed" down to B-rank. At least that's my understanding, of the whole thing. So basically the "points" you get in A-rank Wars, should "weigh" more than the "points" you get in B-rank Wars. So that A-rank and B-rank's won't be switching all the time... Once you lose down to B-rank, you probably would have to beat other high B-rank teams "many times" (well considering), to "make up" for the points you lost in the A-rank War? To compete for A-rank War again.
Does that make sense?

The "Selection for the Going Away Mission" is a whole separate issue... who knows what that is.

Well, my understanding is that you don't understand anything. We have no idea what the A-rank test is. We had no info concerning it, at all. Whatever you are talking about is pure conjecture. It's not a POV, it's not an opinion, it's not an understanding it's your imagination. You are welcome to talk about it but as a theory and that's it.

May 30, 2016 11:06 AM

#185

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Nov 2013

22774

So according to Viz's translation, Izumi was surprised at Katori using the wires not the way she shot them down before charging in.

May 30, 2016 11:41 AM

#186

Caeless

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Apr 2016

139

I'm really looking forward to the post match analysis after this. Lots of surprises for our commentators, it was a really good match.

Maybe we'll get to see some Hyuse screen time as well.

May 30, 2016 12:12 PM

#187

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Dec 2015

313

Caeless said:
I'm really looking forward to the post match analysis after this. Lots of surprises for our commentators, it was a really good match.

Maybe we'll get to see some Hyuse screen time as well.

I can't wait to hear the analysis either! The comments here were divided at best so I wonder what the ''experts'' will think of this match. Personnaly, I think the two loosing team did good considering they were facing a surprise and brand new strategy but most people had more to say about the team's short-comings then that.

May 30, 2016 12:20 PM

#188

Caeless

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Apr 2016

139

LuzNight said:

Caeless said:
I'm really looking forward to the post match analysis after this. Lots of surprises for our commentators, it was a really good match.

Maybe we'll get to see some Hyuse screen time as well.

I can't wait to hear the analysis either! The comments here were divided at best so I wonder what the ''experts'' will think of this match. Personnaly, I think the two loosing team did good considering they were facing a surprise and brand new strategy but most people had more to say about the team's short-comings then that.

I agree, while Katori unit underperformed, Katori clearly showed she's still a top notch Agent, with that last move, and even impressed Izumi.

Teruya and Kakizaki both had great moments as well, and I'm looking forward to seeing where their team goes from here.

T-2 though, wow. I expected them to be good going into this match, but not *this* good (although part way through, it became pretty evident it would).

They went from a team that was really good at player 2 teams against one another, to a team that completely controlled the movement and pace of a match. I think they made it pretty clear that they belong in upper B-Rank. Still a ways to go to beat top teams like Ninomiya and Kageura squads, but at a minimum, they'll be far more competitive in coming matches.

I'm sure Izumi is quite pleased with the "Show" Osamu put on for him. All around, even if a bit long, still good development.

May 30, 2016 2:44 PM

#189

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Oct 2015

117

Botato said:

3 - Nino team got demoted not too long ago as it seems, so they may didn't have the chance to be promoted again yet. It seems the Rank wars were to be longer, but they are shortening because or the urgency of the expedition, so now Nino will have his chance to promote again....am i wrong?

Rank Wars aren't shortening, but basically yes; if Nino squad remains as #1 then they have a shot at going up to A-Rank and then going through the selection process.

Probably Mino's unit was demoted around the date when they investigated Hatohara's desertion. She did traffic of triggers with Chika's brother, and logically if she was exposed after her desertion because she would have arrested if she would have been exposed before her desertion.
In english version we can not see when it happened, but in raw version, we can know by the telephone...
http://raw.senmanga.com/World_Trigger/82/10

The date was around 5/2. 9 months before now. To respond this question we need to know about the frequency of de B-rank wars. If it happens one time every year... Mino's unit has not had the opportunity to face against A-teams yet. If the frequency is two times every year, it means they failed to rise to A teams.

May 30, 2016 2:46 PM

#190

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Jul 2015

566

LuzNight said:
Well, I'm glad to see you toning down your POV when faced with better arguments.

Well, yeah; I'm not trying to change what WT already is... I will argue on the theories that have not become "clear" yet (not yet revealed). Well, some already were, and it seems i missed it... I'm never repulsed to say that I was wrong and accept the right... Cause I'm wrong a lot of times, and unless you confront what you think (believe); you will stay wrong forever...

LuzNight said:
1. Hatohara was good but by no means was she carrying her team and she wasn't a vital part of her team.

There's your POV, right there... Ema said, her team got advanced in "some wars" (not all rank wars), just cause Hatohara destroyed enemy weapons. Maybe that didn't happen in the A-rank wars... Or maybe it did happen. In any case, she's supposed to be above Ema. So.... Even if she wasn't as good as Nino, that's pretty close. I mean they are "different positions" anyway. So she WAS a vital part of the team. Without her, it's just Nino. And we know 1 man teams are hard to get to A-rank... (I basically don't know any "1 OP only" A-rank teams).... And even if Nino team could still become A-rank, that wouldn't prove that Hatohara wasn't "vital part" of the team. As with Hatohara, they got "selected" to be 1 of the 5, teams from A-rank team selections. So inside the A-rank, with Hatohara, Nino team would have placed "way higher" than without her. Moving up and down "inside the A-rank" is probably a lot harder than moving up to "lower A-rank".... As, the higher you go, the stronger (very OP) the members get, and their teamwork etc;. Nino can only become one of the "low" A-rank teams without Hatohara... Unless there was some other better team members in Nino team, that i don't remember.

LuzNight said:
They all are. Most of them are not points however, they are FACTS.

Maybe you should tone down your POV too....

LuzNight said:

Commentator1 said:
At least that's my understanding, of the whole thing.

Well, my understanding is that you don't understand anything. We have no idea what the A-rank test is. It's not a POV, it's not an opinion, it's not an understanding it's your imagination. You are welcome to talk about it but as a theory and that's it.

I did say that was just what i thought....

Whatever it was B-rank #1 and B-rank #2; is "somehow" going to compete with A-rank lowest 2 teams. Maybe not all of them in the same game, like a 4 team game (maybe, maybe not).
Basically the whole point was you move A-rank, B-rank (up and down) "as a team". There's no individual test...
And there's "limited" amount of A-rank teams. (8?) Otherwise Nino team, Kage team; would be A-rank.
Like Kage team got demoted because Kage's violent behavior. But it doesn't mean, they will never be A-rank as long as Kage's violent behavior isn't fixed.
As i understood it... because of Kage's rage, the team "lost points".... And that thus resulted in becoming B-rank... So... it should be connected to the "points".

My point is, for B-rank teams to "move up"; there has to be equal amount of A-rank teams "moving down".
So like the 2 top B-rank taems and 2 lowest A-rank teams; have a Rank War. Then the top 2 teams from that intercourse becomes A-rank; and starts fighting in the A-rank Wars. And the 2 teams that lost, becomes B-rank, and starts fighting in the B-rank Wars... That makes the most sense to me... (doesn't mean both 2 B-rank teams move up; it can be only 1 of the B-rank teams, and 1 of the A-rank teams move up; and the other 1 B-rank team, and 1 A-rank team move down).

As i said this is what i think... I realize this is a "conjecture", but everything else is "conjecture" also. This is the "best" conjecture, there is...

You don't have to give me your "permission", to say my theories... As i don't need them...
And don't argue with "my theories", unless 1) my theory goes against something from the Manga
2) you have a better theory....

If you don't have a better theory, why argue with my on how B-rank teams become A-rank?
We all haven't actually seen any B-rank teams become A-rank yet. So of course, none of us know how actually that happens... OF COURSE, it's all a theory.... I'm assuming, everyone who reads these posts, have first read the Manga... Then anything i say, that don't go with what they've read, they will automatically assume, it's a theory...

Commentator1May 30, 2016 2:49 PM

May 30, 2016 2:55 PM

#191

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Jul 2015

566

Caeless said:
They went from a team that was really good at player 2 teams against one another, to a team that completely controlled the movement and pace of a match.

Wow, that's a really nice way of looking at it xD
Instead of having the other 2 teams fight against one another, they can fight against both the other 2 teams... xD
Nice.

Thought the other 2 teams did let Osamu have some time, putting down his wires and stuff in the beginning. In future matches, i can see them pressuring Osamu from the start. Also block Chika lead bullets with debris... or what not...
Maybe a field with full of tree's? a forest ish? Then Chika lead bullet won't be that effective.

May 30, 2016 3:13 PM

#192

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Oct 2015

117

LuzNight said:
(Kakizaki left Arashiyama squad and that didn't change anything for them)

When Kakizaki left Arashiyama unit, this squad was a B-team. The proof is they don't carry any symbol of their team. Only A-teams or former A-teams carry a symbol of their teams.

Kakizaki's flashback:
http://www.mangamint.com/world-trigger-142?page=11

Arashima unit now (it is in the chest):
http://www.mangamint.com/world-trigger-145?page=4

It means that Arashima unit rose up in A-team after Kakizaki left them. Probably alfter Kitora joined in this team, because Tokieda said they began to win with more frequency then.

May 30, 2016 3:16 PM

#193

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Jul 2015

566

OneCommentary said:

LuzNight said:
(Kakizaki left Arashiyama squad and that didn't change anything for them)

When Kakizaki left Arashiyama unit, this squad was a B-team.

Thanks.
But, @LuzNight .... Even if Arashiyama squad was still A-rank when Kakizaki left... Is Kakizaki = Hatohara? How would the result of them leaving, define their influence to the teams? There's no logic in there... That's a true "conjecture" there...

May 30, 2016 3:33 PM

#194

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Dec 2015

313

OneCommentary said:

LuzNight said:
(Kakizaki left Arashiyama squad and that didn't change anything for them)

When Kakizaki left Arashiyama unit, this squad was a B-team. The proof is they don't carry any symbol of their team. Only A-teams or former A-teams carry a symbol of their teams.

Kakizaki's flashback:
http://www.mangamint.com/world-trigger-142?page=11

Arashima unit now (it is in the chest):
http://www.mangamint.com/world-trigger-145?page=4

It means that Arashima unit rose up in A-team after Kakizaki left them. Probably alfter Kitora joined in this team, because Tokieda said they began to win with more frequency then.

I don't see how winning more is an argument for their rank but the emblem situation is strong enough to for me to admit that I'm probably wrong. Although for argument's sake I could say that maybe the emblem thing is a recent trend or that he left right after they graduated to A-rank which makes a lot a sense because the only thing we know FOR SURE is that he left when they were chosen to do PR and I think Border would choose a A-rank team for that. But anyway...

May 30, 2016 3:50 PM

#195

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Dec 2015

313

Commentator1 said:

OneCommentary said:

When Kakizaki left Arashiyama unit, this squad was a B-team.

Thanks.
But, @LuzNight .... Even if Arashiyama squad was still A-rank when Kakizaki left... Is Kakizaki = Hatohara? How would the result of them leaving, define their influence to the teams? There's no logic in there... That's a true "conjecture" there...

It doesn't matter if Kakizaki=Hatohara because I seriously doubt Border is going to nitpick on the individual strenght of a leaving member to decide the fate of the rest of the team. It's not conjecture because it is/would be proof an existing rule.

But I don't need Kakizaki anyway. Ashihara himself said that adding a B-rank to a A-rank team is ok once per season so if it doesn't matter to dilute the strenght of the team I don't see why it would be different to loose a member.

BUT EVEN BETTER THAN THAT: Ashihara also said that a new team's ranking is determined "the rank of the lowest ranking member in the new squad’. If a team is made with just A-rank agents, then they start from A-rank".

I hope you realise that between those two arguments there is no room for doubt: Ninomiya squad would NOT have been demoted if Hatohara had just left.

Finally, you can attack the veracity of my facts like OneCommentary if you want but tell me there is no logic to what I say because all I do IS build and explain logical arguments.

TyrelMay 30, 2016 4:16 PM

May 30, 2016 4:00 PM

#196

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Jul 2015

566

Kakizaki = Hatohara doesn't matter?....
Do you even remember why and what you argued with me in the first place? Hatohara's position in the Nino team....
And you took Kakizaki as an example, to tell me Hatohara wasn't a vital part of her team... So Kakizaki = Hatohara doesn't matter?
I ask you, how does Kakizaki matter at all? In whether or not Hatohara was a crucial part of her team...

Whether Nino team would have been demodet to B-rank or stayed A-rank, DOESN't matter.... We're talking about Hatohara's influence to her team....

Like i said, even if Nino team stayed in the A-rank, their "ranking" would have lowered. and that "decrease" would have shown Hatohara's influence to her team... But we'll never know.

So everything's conjecture.... But all you do is "Build and Explain" arguments that have NO logic at all....
I don't care if you're emotional or not... I just KNOW that you are not being logical... Like if Hatohara wasn't equal to Kakizaki; why did you bring up Kakizaki in the first place anyway? That's how logical you are.

I feel sad for you now. You can't argue, so you attack my opinion, by "spouting nonsense sprinkled with invented facts and wonky POV"?
lol? I'm not trying to impress you... If you don't like it, don't reply to it. Simple as that...

Who's the one "inventing facts" and "wonky POV" here? ... What did i say that was that? I said Hatohara was a "vital part of Nino team". And you have nothing to prove otherwise.... The "proof" you bring up is Kakizaki; which now you say is not equal to Hatohara... How does Kakizaki prove that "Hatohara wasn't a vial part of Nino team"?

Your "logical train of thought" has gotten off the rails... I advise, you erase all your "built" (made up, only in your head) thoughts of WT in your head, and start reading it over again; so you don't accuse others of, doing what you're doing...

Commentator1May 30, 2016 4:06 PM

May 30, 2016 4:51 PM

#197

Offline

Dec 2015

313

Commentator1 said:

LuzNight said:
It doesn't matter if Kakizaki=Hatohara
I seriously doubt Border is going to nitpick on the individual strenght of a leaving member to decide the fate of the rest of the team. It's not conjecture because it is/would be proof an existing rule.

Ashihara himself said that adding a B-rank to a A-rank team is ok once per season so if it doesn't matter to dilute the strenght of the team I don't see why it would be different to loose a member.

Ashihara also said that a new team's ranking is determined "the rank of the lowest ranking member in the new squad’. If a team is made with just A-rank agents, then they start from A-rank".

I hope you realise that between those two arguments there is no room for doubt: Ninomiya squad would NOT have been demoted if Hatohara had just left.

Finally, you can attack the veracity of my facts like OneCommentary if you want but tell me there is no logic to what I say because all I do IS build and explain logical arguments. Even when I'm at my most emotional, all I say is built on a logical train of thought wheras you only spout nonsense sprinkled with invented facts and wonky POV.

Kakizaki = Hatohara doesn't matter?....
Do you even remember why and what you argued with me in the first place? Hatohara's position in the Nino team....
And you took Kakizaki as an example, to tell me Hatohara wasn't a vital part of her team... So Kakizaki = Hatohara doesn't matter?
I ask you, how does Kakizaki matter at all? In whether or not Hatohara was a crucial part of her team...

Whether Nino team would have been demodet to B-rank or stayed A-rank, DOESN't matter.... We're talking about Hatohara's influence to her team....

No we are not. Neither of us saw Hatohara in action or Kakizaki inside Arashiyama squad so I wonder how you can compare them.

Commentator1 said:

Like i said, even if Nino team stayed in the A-rank, their "ranking" would have lowered. and that "decrease" would have shown Hatohara's influence to her team... But we'll never know.

Indeed. So why are you even talking!

Commentator1 said:

So everything's conjecture.... But all you do is "Build and Explain" arguments that have NO logic at all....
I don't care if you're emotional or not... I just KNOW that you are not being logical... Like if Hatohara wasn't equal to Kakizaki; why did you bring up Kakizaki in the first place anyway? That's how logical you are.

Because I was only comparing them as both being members that left their team. Their individual strenght is meaningless in the point I made which is how you use logic best --> by removing as much specifications and singularity as possible in order to get a GENERAL RULE.

Commentator1 said:

I feel sad for you now. You can't argue, so you attack my opinion, by "spouting nonsense sprinkled with invented facts and wonky POV"?

I'm glad you like my burn enough to try to use it against me but if you want it to hurt you're going to have to tell me the facts you claim I invented. Now go apply cold water ;)

Commentator1 said:

I'm not trying to impress you...

I sure as hell hope not!

Commentator1 said:

Your "logical train of thought" has gotten off the rails...

Nice one! Too bad it lacks any foundation. I don't think anyone mistook my mention of Kakizaki for something other than what it was: an argument about your claim that Nino team would've been demoted without Hatohara. If you want to pretend you were talking about simply loosing ranking and not being demoted then yes, it makes no sense for me to mention Kakizaki, but you just admitted that we will never know so why would you be talking about that. I guess you have to pick one!

Finally please don't edit your posts, it's cheap. If you can't organize your thought the first time, then don't post. If you want to add something, add it in another post.

PS: I've used all the time I could waste on you today so if you want another spanking it will have to wait until tomorrow.

Mod Edit: Removed baiting

TyrelMay 30, 2016 10:29 PM

May 30, 2016 9:19 PM

#198

Offline

Jul 2015

566

LuzNight said:
Because I was only comparing them as both being members that left their team. Their individual strenght is meaningless in the point I made which is how you use logic best --> by removing as much specifications and singularity as possible in order to get a GENERAL RULE.

"individual strength doesn't matter"... ???? How does someone's "individual strength" doesn't affect their "influence" to their team???
You see? This is your so called logic... and train of though...

Nice one! Too bad it lacks any foundation.[/quote]
What "foundation" do i need?
You saying Kakizaki is the reason, that proves that Hatohara wasn't a vital part of her team, IS the foundation... that says you are off the rails... I mean, you are connecting 2 things, that have NOTHING to do with each other... Don't you see it?...

LuzNight said:
PS: I've used all the time I could waste on you today so if you want another spanking it will have to wait until tomorrow.

Again, the fact that you keep adding insults (nothing to do with the manga, or the main argument); each comment you make... Only shows me, that you are out of "logical" sound argument... I do feel for you... It sucks, when you realize you were wrong... Or... Are you not there yet?...

TyrelMay 30, 2016 10:30 PM

May 30, 2016 9:23 PM

#199

iKlinex

Offline

May 2016

19

Commentator1 said:

Caeless said:
They went from a team that was really good at player 2 teams against one another, to a team that completely controlled the movement and pace of a match.

Wow, that's a really nice way of looking at it xD
Instead of having the other 2 teams fight against one another, they can fight against both the other 2 teams... xD
Nice.

Thought the other 2 teams did let Osamu have some time, putting down his wires and stuff in the beginning. In future matches, i can see them pressuring Osamu from the start. Also block Chika lead bullets with debris... or what not...
Maybe a field with full of tree's? a forest ish? Then Chika lead bullet won't be that effective.

Basic anti-sniper tactics still apply. Selecting low terrain, narrow paths, etc.
This might not be a problem since Chika can use lead hound (in the appropriate situation of course; sniping fundamentals!). Preferably in short bursts and delayed strikes as well similar to how Teruya timed her Hound barrage.

I'm wondering what Hyuse's trigger set will be like. Maybe something along the lines of a shooter setup like this:

Main:
Viper
Free slot
Shield
Metora

Sub:
Viper
Hound
Shield
Bagworm

I'm think Viper oriented shooter since he was very accurate with reflecting shots back with Lampyris vs Reiji and Torimaru. The main Viper could be substituted with asteroid for raw power. Also, T2 is lacking in mid range power; not necessarily for just point scoring, but also more movement manipulation.

May 30, 2016 9:44 PM

#200