The anime community's obsession with elitists/hipsters

Mar 7, 2016 9:34 PM

Offline

Nov 2009

8716

WordIsBond said:
Wouldn't it be easier to try to explain to that person why you found a certain show to be good, instead of just calling them an elitist cunt?

I have explained several times that I like SAO because it's an fine sci-fi (genre) show. I don't care if its plots are cliched or characters flat (they're believable enough for me), as long as it's a fine sci-fi. I also like that the MC is not just good with a sword, but good with technology and game rules too, because it goes against the usual tide of anti-intellectualism present in anime.
I have never seen anybody agree with me or accept this explanation. So it usually ends with me thinking of a way to translate sciences/humanities dichotomy into English in such a way as to make it obvious that "humanities person" is a term of abuse. It's easy for me to say in my native language, but for some reason I have never encountered this divide in English.

Mar 7, 2016 9:49 PM

#152

flannan

Offline

Nov 2009

8716

animefan899 said:

- I've rated sao 9 most of the run then 8 because of the ending while having watched easily over one thousand titles spanning many decades, styles, genres, mal_rattings. at the same time I've rated lotgh 3 after trying to watch it 3 times only to drop it every time over the years, starting when I had less than 200 titles and ending when I had 1200+ watched titles. am I a casual or an elitist?

These labels do not comprise the entirety of MAL population. If pressed to describe you, I would call you "anime veteran".
I've seen a number of people who claim that people who have watched a lot of anime inevitably fall into elitism, start hating ordinary anime and liking only their refined list, but I don't believe them. Because I've watched over 600 titles, yet I did not.

animefan899 said:
- the most important point, and evidently glanced over in the discussion. even the most closed-minded individual, in his twisted view, can see that some random title is better than another and can probably articulate a reason - good or bad. too bad that it is also the hardest to even tackle. also it wont happen because it means work has to be done by the user and the dev.

I did not understand your point. Especially the "tackle" part and what follows.

Mar 8, 2016 12:50 AM

#153

TheBrainintheJar

Offline

May 2015

16468

You said:

animefan899 said:

- elitist dont have anything any more to do, the recommendations for the casual viewer are already well circulated and haven't really changed in the last years.
- casuals if left to digest their favourite sphere of interest, once done, will reach outside of it on their own.
- I've rated sao 9 most of the run then 8 because of the ending while having watched easily over one thousand titles spanning many decades, styles, genres, mal_rattings. at the same time I've rated lotgh 3 after trying to watch it 3 times only to drop it every time over the years, starting when I had less than 200 titles and ending when I had 1200+ watched titles. am I a casual or an elitist?
- the most important point, and evidently glanced over in the discussion. even the most closed-minded individual, in his twisted view, can see that some random title is better than another and can probably articulate a reason - good or bad. too bad that it is also the hardest to even tackle. also it wont happen because it means work has to be done by the user and the dev.
- completionist - been there, done that. time is a finite resource. if you value your time so little that you accept watching a bad title over a potentially better one, you are a kid.

So basically you're implying that there's already no problem between this casual-elitist stuff? Well maybe that kind of like that in your perspective, but I don't think so.

People should try to respect the others POV, I think. Welp I use my spare time for watching it. And judging a thing before you digests the whole thing feels incredibly wrong for me. I need to complete literally everything before can finally gives my judgement.

You can judge something based on a single episode if you want. The important thing is that there will be coherency behind your judgment. You should be able to explain why you judged the anime as bad even based on a single episode. You should also be open to new arguments and refutations. In fact, you should be open even if you completed the anime.

Then you're an intelligent human being who engages in productive discussions and challenges their mindset. Huzzah!

WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things

Mar 8, 2016 12:56 AM

#154

animefan899

Offline

Feb 2010

23

flannan said:

animefan899 said:
- the most important point, and evidently glanced over in the discussion. even the most closed-minded individual, in his twisted view, can see that some random title is better than another and can probably articulate a reason - good or bad. too bad that it is also the hardest to even tackle. also it wont happen because it means work has to be done by the user and the dev.

I did not understand your point. Especially the "tackle" part and what follows.

if the rating system would be split into categories and each user's ratings would have a different weight in the final rating based on various factors (eg: is the show airing? .8 all ratings and increase them over the next 2 seasons; is the user new? .5 his first 50 ratings; etc), ratings would become a lot more objective and such any discussion about the quality of a show would be gone. but that requires work so the users won't really do it, and ultimately will lower engagement so the site administration won't do it.

a metacritic like system would be interesting as well(and cheaper/easier to implement) if you had some good anime reviewers. alternatively just tag some users as reviewers and their ratings would be .4(?) of the final rating. but the process to select them is another can of worms.

Mar 8, 2016 6:23 AM

#155

You

Offline

Apr 2015

5601

TheBrainintheJar said:

You said:

So basically you're implying that there's already no problem between this casual-elitist stuff? Well maybe that kind of like that in your perspective, but I don't think so.

People should try to respect the others POV, I think. Welp I use my spare time for watching it. And judging a thing before you digests the whole thing feels incredibly wrong for me. I need to complete literally everything before can finally gives my judgement.

You can judge something based on a single episode if you want. The important thing is that there will be coherency behind your judgment. You should be able to explain why you judged the anime as bad even based on a single episode. You should also be open to new arguments and refutations. In fact, you should be open even if you completed the anime.

Then you're an intelligent human being who engages in productive discussions and challenges their mindset. Huzzah!

I'm pretty open tbh towards any opinion, and I always searching whether my reasoning to point the flaws of the anime is legitimate (how I give 7/10 on NGE while 5/10 on EoE is one example)

Mar 8, 2016 6:31 AM

#156

Zefyris

Offline

Apr 2013

8016

It's the same as the obsession of the gaming community to oppose "casual" and "hardcore". And to put everyone in one of the two category (stupidity to its finest).

On the anime community it's "casual vs elitist" (without understanding that you can be a casual elitist, but whatever, they need those groups so they won't listen to you if you explain to them that kind of thing) bullshit. Same stuff really.

Seems like peoples like to put others in boxes, and to create "group" where they fill like they can belong. Then oppose themselves to anyone not part of the "group" because if you're not in my group you're in the opposing one, riiiight.

Mar 8, 2016 6:45 AM

#157

KaoruMatsuoka

Offline

May 2015

3235

It's just like the console vs. PC wars on the internet. Both sides end up looking completely stupid.

Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is with not liking popular anime, or liking unpopular anime. You're not doing it just to be a special snowflake. Most people I've talked to who dislike popular anime have legitimate grievances with them.

I'd say a lot of the hate on "elitists" comes from the new to anime, weeaboo crowd. You know, the kinds of people who have only watched about 10 anime and have given Naruto a 10. They end up looking worse than the "elitists" themselves...none of the people with "hipster taste" that I know are really that concerned with shoving their preferences in people's faces. Eventually, the weebs are going to watch more, get older, and grow out of it...or not.

Anime List▼Manga List▼Watch Sansha Sanyou!▼Neko Pub

Mar 9, 2016 8:52 AM

#158

TheBrainintheJar

Offline

May 2015

16468

You said:

TheBrainintheJar said:

You said:

animefan899 said:

You said:
Elitism thread again? Well I'm just going to left this.

-Elitist should recommend casuals some more thought provoking anime that's still enjoyable.
-Casuals should be more open to watch any animu
-Both should just have the sense of respect each other, cmon don't we have an attitude education?
-You can't blame people that rates SAO 10/10 when they haven't watch something like LoGH or any other anime that most elitist loves, especially if they've watched less than 50 anime.
-How people rates anime differs, there's one that uses 100% enjoyment, there's one that use almost 0% enjoyment, and there's someone who rates like me.
-Completionist is master race

- elitist dont have anything any more to do, the recommendations for the casual viewer are already well circulated and haven't really changed in the last years.
- casuals if left to digest their favourite sphere of interest, once done, will reach outside of it on their own.
- I've rated sao 9 most of the run then 8 because of the ending while having watched easily over one thousand titles spanning many decades, styles, genres, mal_rattings. at the same time I've rated lotgh 3 after trying to watch it 3 times only to drop it every time over the years, starting when I had less than 200 titles and ending when I had 1200+ watched titles. am I a casual or an elitist?
- the most important point, and evidently glanced over in the discussion. even the most closed-minded individual, in his twisted view, can see that some random title is better than another and can probably articulate a reason - good or bad. too bad that it is also the hardest to even tackle. also it wont happen because it means work has to be done by the user and the dev.
- completionist - been there, done that. time is a finite resource. if you value your time so little that you accept watching a bad title over a potentially better one, you are a kid.

So basically you're implying that there's already no problem between this casual-elitist stuff? Well maybe that kind of like that in your perspective, but I don't think so.

People should try to respect the others POV, I think. Welp I use my spare time for watching it. And judging a thing before you digests the whole thing feels incredibly wrong for me. I need to complete literally everything before can finally gives my judgement.

You can judge something based on a single episode if you want. The important thing is that there will be coherency behind your judgment. You should be able to explain why you judged the anime as bad even based on a single episode. You should also be open to new arguments and refutations. In fact, you should be open even if you completed the anime.

Then you're an intelligent human being who engages in productive discussions and challenges their mindset. Huzzah!

I'm pretty open tbh towards any opinion, and I always searching whether my reasoning to point the flaws of the anime is legitimate (how I give 7/10 on NGE while 5/10 on EoE is one example)

Well, EOE is an experimental mess which is bound to polarize people. It's an idea that's very hard to make work. NGE is more accessible and easy most of the time, so no wonder people will enjoy it more.

WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things

Mar 9, 2016 9:18 AM

#159

You

Offline

Apr 2015

5601

TheBrainintheJar said:

You said:

TheBrainintheJar said:

You said:

animefan899 said:

You said:
Elitism thread again? Well I'm just going to left this.

-Elitist should recommend casuals some more thought provoking anime that's still enjoyable.
-Casuals should be more open to watch any animu
-Both should just have the sense of respect each other, cmon don't we have an attitude education?
-You can't blame people that rates SAO 10/10 when they haven't watch something like LoGH or any other anime that most elitist loves, especially if they've watched less than 50 anime.
-How people rates anime differs, there's one that uses 100% enjoyment, there's one that use almost 0% enjoyment, and there's someone who rates like me.
-Completionist is master race

- elitist dont have anything any more to do, the recommendations for the casual viewer are already well circulated and haven't really changed in the last years.
- casuals if left to digest their favourite sphere of interest, once done, will reach outside of it on their own.
- I've rated sao 9 most of the run then 8 because of the ending while having watched easily over one thousand titles spanning many decades, styles, genres, mal_rattings. at the same time I've rated lotgh 3 after trying to watch it 3 times only to drop it every time over the years, starting when I had less than 200 titles and ending when I had 1200+ watched titles. am I a casual or an elitist?
- the most important point, and evidently glanced over in the discussion. even the most closed-minded individual, in his twisted view, can see that some random title is better than another and can probably articulate a reason - good or bad. too bad that it is also the hardest to even tackle. also it wont happen because it means work has to be done by the user and the dev.
- completionist - been there, done that. time is a finite resource. if you value your time so little that you accept watching a bad title over a potentially better one, you are a kid.

So basically you're implying that there's already no problem between this casual-elitist stuff? Well maybe that kind of like that in your perspective, but I don't think so.

People should try to respect the others POV, I think. Welp I use my spare time for watching it. And judging a thing before you digests the whole thing feels incredibly wrong for me. I need to complete literally everything before can finally gives my judgement.

You can judge something based on a single episode if you want. The important thing is that there will be coherency behind your judgment. You should be able to explain why you judged the anime as bad even based on a single episode. You should also be open to new arguments and refutations. In fact, you should be open even if you completed the anime.

Then you're an intelligent human being who engages in productive discussions and challenges their mindset. Huzzah!

I'm pretty open tbh towards any opinion, and I always searching whether my reasoning to point the flaws of the anime is legitimate (how I give 7/10 on NGE while 5/10 on EoE is one example)

Well, EOE is an experimental mess which is bound to polarize people. It's an idea that's very hard to make work. NGE is more accessible and easy most of the time, so no wonder people will enjoy it more.

no, it's not about that, it's just that I'm still confused on how

Mar 10, 2016 5:30 AM

#160

removed-user

Offline

Jul 2018

561867

hoopla123 said:
Because there are way more new fans entering the fanbase compared to the past. Meaning, we have people who have only watched a few anime and instantly 10/10 the said anime such as SAO, Erased, OPM and all that shit.

Once they see long time watchers start hating on the said series, they start to label these people as "elitists" and think that they are some endangered species being overrun by haters.

Elitists are fucking cancerous as well. Especially the moe haters.

Moe is cancer

O/T I really need to start posting in AD again ..... I seen this recently ish also I usually ignore them tbh unless the same person keeps making threads then I'll get annoyed

Mar 10, 2016 5:59 AM

#161

flannan

Offline

Nov 2009

8716

I think this topic: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1404272 easily explains why there are anti-elitists.
For example:

MortalMelancholy said:
Yes. Because most people have shit taste, mainstream, which most people like, is shit. And so is your waifu.

I have no idea if the MortalMelancholy is serious there, but still.

Mar 10, 2016 6:05 AM

#162

AkitoTheGambler

Overlord

Offline

Jul 2015

114

Wensbane said:
I really would love to see what this forum would be like, if no one ever said anything negative about any work of fiction.

Just a full-on constant circlejerk of positive thinking and pollyannaism. It would be glorious.

it would constantly die because every disscussion would like

A: SAO is the best
B; Yes right
C: Totally true
D: especially ep 14 and 24
E: yes i agree

End of discussion

kind of like the http://myanimelist.net/anime/21039/Gatchaman_Crowds_Insight if you have seen it you know what i mean (everyone has the same opinion)
people get even more stupid than they are already now.

@Immahnoob is maybe the most hated (and best known) user on MAL but I like the discussions he makes in the forum, they are very interesting and fun. other users say its like fighting against a wall. discoussions like those makes the forum and the communities "alive".

thats why there is something for everyone, people who love or hate yaoi, mahou shojou, etc., people who hate on everything, people who hate on haters, and elitist

AkitoTheGamblerMar 10, 2016 6:10 AM

.

Mar 10, 2016 6:10 AM

#163

flannan

Offline

Nov 2009

8716

TheGambler97 said:

Wensbane said:
I really would love to see what this forum would be like, if no one ever said anything negative about any work of fiction.

Just a full-on constant circlejerk of positive thinking and pollyannaism. It would be glorious.

it would constantly die because every disscussion would like

A: SAO is the best
B; Yes right
C: Totally true
D: especially ep 14 and 24
E: yes i agree

End of discussion

I think it would leave more space for proper discussions. Like "Do you agree with Kirito's view that AIs are people, even if they're dumb as bricks?".
Or "Chamo Rosso from Rokka no Yuusha, or Gasai Yuuno from Mirai Nikki - compare and contrast".

Mar 10, 2016 6:10 AM

#164

Deathko

Offline

Jul 2015

14392

You said:

no, it's not about that, it's just that I'm still confused on how

Why would you want to take everything EoE throws at you literally? Why are you looking for reasons in the middle of

Prophetess of the Golden Era

Mar 10, 2016 6:29 AM

#165

AkitoTheGambler

Overlord

Offline

Jul 2015

114

flannan said:

TheGambler97 said:

it would constantly die because every disscussion would like

A: SAO is the best
B; Yes right
C: Totally true
D: especially ep 14 and 24
E: yes i agree

End of discussion

I think it would leave more space for proper discussions. Like "Do you agree with Kirito's view that AIs are people, even if they're dumb as bricks?".
Or "Chamo Rosso from Rokka no Yuusha, or Gasai Yuuno from Mirai Nikki - compare and contrast".

when there is propper discussion there will be always non-propper discussion too
humanity is like if there is a possibilty at least someone loves it, like recently ive heard some thinks she is a cat. not like im a man Physically but im feeling as a girl ? no she thinks she is a cat and walks always like in anime with cat ears and tail

good discussion would be nice but if nobody hates what you are thinking the discussion ends too fast

.

Mar 10, 2016 6:36 AM

#166

You

Offline

Apr 2015

5601

Clebardman said:

You said:

no, it's not about that, it's just that I'm still confused on how

Why would you want to take everything EoE throws at you literally? Why are you looking for reasons in the middle of

Because everything should be explained. A great concept but ruined with just a single glimpse is just like Tokyo Ghoul. At lease EoE concept is better that's why I rate it higher. That worst anime girl, took my hate towards her aaside, should just die taken by the rei clones as LCL or at least show all of her classmates alive instead.

YouMar 10, 2016 6:44 AM

Mar 10, 2016 9:15 AM

#167

TheBrainintheJar

Offline

May 2015

16468

Clebardman said:

You said:

no, it's not about that, it's just that I'm still confused on how

Why would you want to take everything EoE throws at you literally? Why are you looking for reasons in the middle of

That's the problem. It's so far un-literal that it lost any connection it had to the story.

WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things

Mar 11, 2016 2:13 PM

#168

PeppermintHearts

Offline

Jul 2015

2373

YES, I agree with you totally. There are elitist in the anime community. I really like harem anime series like To Love Ru, which is also ecchi, but there are a lot of anime elitist who always dump on harem anime...so just SCREW THEM!
By far the worst anime "elitist" are the authors of The Anime Encyclopedia...Jonathan Clements and
Helen McCarthy, who have worked anime series and wrote about anime for a long time, yet the are extremely cynical in their assessments of a lot of series in the entries of the encyclopedia.
When they wrote about Ah! My Goddess anime, they referred to Belldandy as a doormat and Keichii as a wimp. That is extremely cynical. Belldandy and Keichii were a very nice and loving couple and Keichii was hardly a wimp. Belldandy was just kindhearted, and nice, but these cynical authors called them a wimp and a doormat. So, the anime series wasn't as good as the manga, maybe, but the series was entertaining, and a good fantasy romance series. I really enjoyed watching tha series.
I believe in just watching anime and enjoying it and not let these elitist ruin for you or anybody else!

Mar 11, 2016 11:09 PM

#169

penguindrum264

Offline

Jan 2012

487

The only problem I have is with people who always post about how modern anime sucks, every season post about how much they think the the current season sucks and/or post on series they hate for every single episode discussion. The worst are the ones that threaten to drop a series multiple times and still complete it.

Criticism is perfectly fine with me and I think it's necessary, but mindless hate and saying their opinion(not objective criticism) on a series or anime in general is a fact just makes me cringe. This also applies to rabid fanboys who get mad when faced with valid criticism like plot holes and inconsistencies within a series.

Thankfully they're both rare.

An example of an elitist, or just a masochist?
A while back I saw a user that used to watch every single show airing each season but give it all low ratings and post about it how much they hated the series. I don't know if they were just trolling or if they just have some weird fetish for doing stuff they hate. Or they could possible have their own unique rating system, since a 7 for me is "eh, I'm not watching this again" and anything lower is something I thought was terrible.

penguindrum264Mar 11, 2016 11:12 PM

Mar 11, 2016 11:13 PM

#170

Diginarcissa

Offline

Jan 2015

11129

Its the beta uprising. Of course they flock en masse now since these "elitists" are either banned or left this site

Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race

Mar 11, 2016 11:27 PM

#171

Benienma

Offline

Jul 2015

2641

Because being an actual elitist/hipster about something is just has shallow as being a mindless supporter.

If you hate on something far more than it deserves just because you wanna rustle some jimmies, you're no better than someone slobbering on the knob of something they love that deserves criticism.

The only difference is that hipster/elitism conjures up a lot more needless negativity than those who go overly fanboy/fangirl for something, which is why those kind of people are faaar worse.

Mar 12, 2016 12:13 AM

#172

cody

Offline

Jun 2015

13681

People hate when their favorite shows get criticized and get defensive.
That's pretty much it.

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The anime community's obsession with elitists/hipsters

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