To people who eat meat - why do you think it's okay?

Yamafam94 said:
If I was dead they would eat me
Or the plants that would use me for nutrition

I don't need to give rights to organisms that aren't part of my species

CondemneDio said:


Make on mistake, I am a fully functional, intelligent adult human being.

Mazaev said:


The fact you actually typed that out and had to tell us as if we didn't know is concerning.

CondemneDio said:


Yeah, the most probably would. Not that it would keep them alive for longer than a day or two.



Sorry, but I'm still not satisfied :D
Should people, who have been isolated, and have no morals be killed then? What about people with difficult mental illnesses that prevent them from understanding reality?



Make on mistake, I am a fully functional, intelligent adult human being. I just happen to be very vocal about my opinions on a select few issues.
A person who has a 100% opposing opinion of these things will end up in a crash course with me :D

CondemneDio said:


Because it's not okay to eat herbivores either.

TheBrainintheJar said:

They have the capacity, the ability to understand morals and that's enough. They will treat us how they expect us to treat them.

As for the mentally ill, they also have potential to understand morality. Until then, they DO have less rights. That's why we take care of them and don't let them to do things on their own. The thing is, anyone can become one of them someday and we wouldn't want to be treated this way when we're schizophrenic. You're less likely to turn into a cow.

Pacifica_Ocean said:


-*Dio runs up to a Lion who has just taken down a Gazelle* "No! bad lion! no meat!"
-*Gets mauled and eaten by Lion, guilt felt by Lion = 0*
-Damn nature you scary!

Pacifica_Ocean said:
So because humans understand why they abide by natures rules we have to...not abide by them or deny our nature because we can? Just because we understand our actions doesn't make them wrong.

Morals are made up brah no more reality in nature than saying pink isn't a boys colour. just like people telling people who eat meat that its wrong. No different than a Christian banning gays on "Gods word" out of fear of punishment, its not real but they fear it like it is they honestly 100% believe they're right just like Vegans and they would argue that we have to be above those natural acts just like Vegans would. You only get these ideas from social manipulation and been brainwashed subtly into that line of thought. No small child has an inbuilt morality complex making them feel guilty for eating meat its only when dumb ass parents or activists get it into their heads that what they are doing is wrong do they start believing it, just like any crazy religious cult.

CondemneDio said:

If you have no moral code, what's keeping you from killing people?

CondemneDio said:

I despise the idea of a moral code that come's from an outside source, I don't believe in gods.

Pacifica_Ocean said:

So you despise the idea of morality coming from anything but believe in the idea of some universal truth morality yeah hate to tell you but thats literally one step away from belief in a moral God you've just replaced an omnipotent God with some universally existing morality deciding our actions and telling humanity whats best for them. Yeah you tell those crazy religious people how silly they are, whilst spouting that there's an all knowing morality code built into the universe that we must obey to be good people totally less crazy. (a modern one btw based only on whats currently viewed moral or not hence why public hangings for all the family were once totally moral but now aren't, which one does this universal timeless morality subscribe to exactly?)

Bernkastel said:


Pls you guys believe the exact same thing.

Bernkastel said:

You also misunderstood his lol. This is what made the discussion so funny to watch.

CondemneDio said:
BTW Paz, nice job proving you don't read other peoples comments with that lion video ;)

Pacifica_Ocean said:


no I read it, was just too amusing not to post

"You're vegetarians nobody cares what you think" :D

CondemneDio said:

"You're meat eaters nobody cares what you think" :D

Pacifica_Ocean said:


Good thing meat eaters aren't trying to stop vegetarians eating what they want then ;)

Bernkastel said:
@CondemneDio:
As you consider ethics subjective and personal, rather than from divine calling, one can therefore make the deduction that ethics must have a pragmatic value as otherwise nobody would keep them.

An ethical duty to another person is meaningful because there are pragmatic consequences if such duty is broken. A society that does not follow ethics will lose trust in one another, this is a bad thing as human life is at the peak when a working community exists.

An ethical duty to another animal is not meaningful because there are no negative consequences to human life to uphold such ethics. Therefore if ethics is to be considered subjective, pragmatic and of utility, animal ethics from a rational perspective cannot reasonably exist.

The desire to protect animals therefore must come from compassion and sympathy, i.e. emotions, rather than reason. In other words, you will decide not to eat animals when the pleasure derived from meat is smaller than the sadness you experience from compassion. This means on a personal level, veganism is justifiable.

However this reasoning does not apply to others, as their compassion felt towards animals is less than the desire to consume meat. As there is no ethical ground to justify this act as pragmatically detrimental, one cannot reasonably impose vegan beliefs onto others. Animal rights therefore is only relevant when the consequence is merely a small inconvenience at best.

Does this justify meat eating as OK?

DejWo said:


Bullshit.
The taste is different.

Bernkastel said:
People seem to forget that the purpose of morality is so we can convince our neighbors to trust us. When a massive power gap exists, morality does not apply. It is not immoral because it is not an area governed by morality.

Bernkastel said:

The proposition "causing harm to a living being is never justifiable" is only justifiable if you believe in objective morality from the divine. If you believe in subjective morality, such a statement can only be justified two ways:
1. Shown that there is pragmatic value to human society if animals are not eaten in the same way that there is pragmatic value for human trust.
2. Show that under all circumstances, eating meat leads to adverse short and long term effects for everyone.

CondemneDio said:
Racism was okay a few centuries ago, but is now a bad thing. Vegetarianism/veganism is just one of those changes. Front-runners will always be demonized, made fun of or rejected.

Bernkastel said:

The problem with subjective morality is they cannot be imposed on another person. Subjectivism implies the moral belief is merely your attitude and holds no command value. If they say no, you have no argument left.

Bernkastel said:

Racism can be justified under category 1 because the human condition is diminished by racism. However veganism cannot be justified under category 1, therefore this analogy is false. Instead veganism should be compared to nudism, which is just a personal choice with no moral implications.

Bernkastel said:

Then a valid argument can be made that the meat industry needs to explore alternative methods to farming. This however has no moral value unless there are no alternative and more sustainable methods.

Pacifica_Ocean said:


Are you comparing racism with meat eating?

DejWo said:
Not mentioning the cycle of life and food chain(which humans are surprisingly also part on).

-AnimeLuke- said:
I have moral objections to intensive farming and when I think about it I find the farming of animals to be a pretty fucked up practice.

Humans don't need to eat animals to survive so why should we kill and eat them if we can survive without doing so? There are numerous health problems associated with the consumption of meat and many benefits of a balanced diet without meat so its not like our bodies are specifically suited to eat meat (particually not in large quantities).

It is much more energy and cost efficient to eat veg rather than feed it to an animal which would process it over a much longer period of time into meat. Therefore if everyone didn't eat meat then it would be much easier to feed the world's population.

Additionally, the farming of animals for meat (particually cattle) contributes a huge amount of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere through farming and distribution processes and from the livestock themselves. The input of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere would be significantly reduced if nobody ate meat (either way we are collectively screwed by global warming due to the industrialisation & growth of India and China).

I have nothing against people who eat meat (all my friends do) but sometimes I wish they would seriously think about what they are eating and then make their decision.

I'm vegan by the way :)

Latent said:
It ignores the important moral distinction that comes from our ability to choose from a wide variety of food options

CondemneDio said:



Yes, I am. They are at least equally as immoral in my opinion.

-AnimeLuke- said:

I have nothing against people who eat meat (all my friends do) but sometimes I wish they would seriously think about what they are eating and then make their decision.

Bernkastel said:

Jelly, can't go out for dinner cuz exams. Only have KitKat and donuts :[
I might as well be vegan...

Bernkastel said:

Jelly, can't go out for dinner cuz exams. Only have KitKat and donuts :[
I might as well be vegan...

Pacifica_Ocean said:

You may not have anything against people who eat meat but you obviously view them as inferior you mention you wish they wold seriously think about what they're doing. Assuming they're ignorant and incapable on making the same choice to eat meat even with full understanding. This is wrong and something that is common in vegans a sense of moral superiority even if unintentional you do view yourself as superior to those that eat meat.

CondemneDio said:

There's an easy solution to this problem. Meat eaters are the inferior beings.

Pacifica_Ocean said:


Previous guy who believed that made a great summer retreat, called it Auschwitz :)

CondemneDio said:


Sounds great, you want to visit?
I'll get you free tickets, lol :D

Pacifica_Ocean said:


Nah I hear the water spray system at the entrance they turn on during hot days is...problematic.

CondemneDio said:


Let me summarize your thoughts:

Humans must be moral towards other beings that have the potential to understand morals. Am I correct?

Here's my question then: how do you measure whether animals do or do not have this potential?

JCole said:
It tastes good.. I feel sorry for Vegans you are missing out on the greatest taste ever! Better than grass man

shotz_ said:
well you shouldn't. the great thing about plant-based diet is that there's still a great variety for you but at the same time it forces you to be creative with what you cook at home. vegans don't just eat salads all day. in the years since i switched i've tried a way bigger variety of foods and gotten more proficient at cooking. i like the food i eat now better a lot more than what i used to eat.