Rarusu_ said: TheBrainintheJar said: I think that society doesn't offer people enough purposes. You get a few routes, and if you don't go that way you're destined to be a bum. My environment believes that anyone who isn't a programmer must be a bum. That's what make purposes so tricky. We need them, and to give someone a purpose isn't bad, in fact it may be necessary. For most people, this won't be a problem, but for the very few, purposes may be what lead them to commit suicide. One of Nietsche's most famous quotes is "God is dead". Many people missunderstand this quote. The point is, the price we had to pay for our secular society, is that our lives will be meaningless, unless we create our own meaning in life, and give up our christian concepts of morality as some objective truth, to create our own. This is easier said then done. We had to sacrifice our comfort about heaven and all, and start to focus on making a heaven on Earth, now while we are still alive. Still, society has not really come up with any conclusion yet. The conclusion society reached, at least from my environment is: Study programming and get money or at least have a lot of sex and then kids. But not everyone is into programming. Not everyone is attractive enough for sex and not everyone can be a parent. When I bring up other ways of living people around me are astounded. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| 1-800 |
| I'm not the kind of person that can stop someone once they've decided on something, so if that's what you've decided you're going to do, then go ahead. Just don't regret it. |
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MCsq2 said: How are they gonna regret it if they kill themselvesI'm not the kind of person that can stop someone once they've decided on something, so if that's what you've decided you're going to do, then go ahead. Just don't regret it. |
Klad said: I don't know, as a soul maybe?MCsq2 said: How are they gonna regret it if they kill themselvesI'm not the kind of person that can stop someone once they've decided on something, so if that's what you've decided you're going to do, then go ahead. Just don't regret it. |
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| I have tried suicide in the past... not something that I'm really proud of. I understand that sometimes, when life TRULY gets rough, a person may think that the only solution would be to end their own life. However, how I see suicide today is an easy escape for a coward, making everyone else who cared about you wallow in sadness only because you refused to fight it. It is never a good choice. Suicide is selfish, because the one who dies will be the one who gets hurt the least. Instead anyone who cared for the person in question will suffer a lot. |
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| don't fuckin do it ya cocksucka |
| i make terrible youtube videos, dont click the link unless you have literally seen everything else in existence https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH8qW8C2w0PNpTGlA-0r_HA |
| If someone's fuckin' done, has exhausted all possible alternatives to find contentedness, and is old and mature enough to be sure of that, then do it. The void of nonexistence seems chill. How in fuck is it still illegal to commit suicide with a terminal illness? That's just the law at its cruelest. |
Wretch said: Suicide is selfish, because the one who dies will be the one who gets hurt the least. Instead anyone who cared for the person in question will suffer a lot. I think having to put up with a person who will never amount to anything for the entirity of your life and seeing that person grow worse and worse will hurt much more and turn you into a hateful being. In the end, there is no nobility in suffering, ever. People need to stop using that as a measuring stick. |
RedTie47 said: Wretch said: Suicide is selfish, because the one who dies will be the one who gets hurt the least. Instead anyone who cared for the person in question will suffer a lot. Except when there's no one that cared about the person. People have to stop acting like there's no such thing as someone completely alone in this world. There are people who have done suicide for that very reason. If there are people at that person's funeral it will be randoms killing time on their lunch break. Even so, it's still giving up. Not that I honestly care if some other person decides to, but I am glad that I survived. Couple years after my attempts at suicide, my life got better. Since then I decided that even if I ever end up being all alone again, I'll keep on fighting. If somebody decides that the only option for them is to give up and die because they're all alone, fine. It has nothing to do with me, so let them walk off the cliff or whatever. |
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| My thoughts: Do it only when there is literally no alternative. Like, if you know for a fact that what awaits you is nothing but pure torture... Other than that, try to fight it. |
| i did it before, it was boring |
Wretch said: I have tried suicide in the past... not something that I'm really proud of. I understand that sometimes, when life TRULY gets rough, a person may think that the only solution would be to end their own life. However, how I see suicide today is an easy escape for a coward, making everyone else who cared about you wallow in sadness only because you refused to fight it. It is never a good choice. Suicide is selfish, because the one who dies will be the one who gets hurt the least. Instead anyone who cared for the person in question will suffer a lot. Keeping a miserable person alive for your own happiness isn't selfish? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: Wretch said: I have tried suicide in the past... not something that I'm really proud of. I understand that sometimes, when life TRULY gets rough, a person may think that the only solution would be to end their own life. However, how I see suicide today is an easy escape for a coward, making everyone else who cared about you wallow in sadness only because you refused to fight it. It is never a good choice. Suicide is selfish, because the one who dies will be the one who gets hurt the least. Instead anyone who cared for the person in question will suffer a lot. Keeping a miserable person alive for your own happiness isn't selfish? As I said in my newer post, if somebody truly feels miserbale enough, they're free to go walk off the cliff for all I care. It's their choice, not mine. |
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| It might just be the years spent on 4chan, but I feel compelled to answer with: Hurry up and do it you candy-ass faggot. In all seriousness though, I doubt what you're going through right now is actually as horrid as it seems, can't be much worse than Iraq was. TheBrainintheJar said: Keeping a miserable person alive for your own happiness isn't selfish? People change their minds over time, and the pains of life fade and you end up stronger than you were before it happened. People grow through conflict. One of my ex-girlfriends overdosed after saying goodbye to me over the phone. She's still alive because I called her mother and she was rushed to the hospital. Now, 5 years later she's a good friend of mine and is one of the happiest people i know. She just got engaged and is pursuing her dream of being a musician. A final solution for a temporary problem is a poor idea. |
Creatorofgods said: It might just be the years spent on 4chan, but I feel compelled to answer with: Hurry up and do it you candy-ass faggot. In all seriousness though, I doubt what you're going through right now is actually as horrid as it seems, can't be much worse than Iraq was. TheBrainintheJar said: Keeping a miserable person alive for your own happiness isn't selfish? People change their minds over time, and the pains of life fade and you end up stronger than you were before it happened. People grow through conflict. One of my ex-girlfriends overdosed after saying goodbye to me over the phone. She's still alive because I called her mother and she was rushed to the hospital. Now, 5 years later she's a good friend of mine and is one of the happiest people i know. She just got engaged and is pursuing her dream of being a musician. A final solution for a temporary problem is a poor idea. Your girlfriend turned out fine. It doesn't happen to all of us. Some people find life unexciting, boring and pointless. There is no direction for them to go. Maybe the Asymmtery Argument (David Benatar's idea) applies to them. Maybe they just hate being alive. Remember: You were forced to live. If people change their minds over time, maybe you'd find out life isn't for you either? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: Your girlfriend turned out fine. It doesn't happen to all of us. The problem is once it gets you it never really goes away you can feel fine for days, weeks, even years and in one moment bam it all comes back. It could lie in wait when someone feels this thing hanging over them like a time bomb for the rest of their lives just the idea that it could at any moment strike and tear apart your life can add a lot of pressure to this persons existence. Its always there from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed, every moment of every day, forever. |
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TheBrainintheJar said: Your girlfriend turned out fine. It doesn't happen to all of us. Some people find life unexciting, boring and pointless. There is no direction for them to go. Maybe the Asymmtery Argument (David Benatar's idea) applies to them. Maybe they just hate being alive. Remember: You were forced to live. If people change their minds over time, maybe you'd find out life isn't for you either? Given that what you said was essentially a tautology I would have to agree, it is certainly possible. Although given that there is far too much in life for any human to experience in a lifetime, I would say growing bored of life (i.e. feeling weary because one is unoccupied or lacks interest in one's current activity -websters dictionary) is not due to life being uninteresting but because of the perspective that the person in question has taken in relation to life. Life is neither interesting nor is it uninteresting, it simply is. I find plenty of things pointless, but a simple change of perspective can change that. As for the Asymmetry Argument, I will admit that my research on it was a five minute google search, but from what I can gather the four major tenants are: (1) The presence of pain is bad (2) The presence of pleasure is good (3) The absence of pain is good, even if that good is not enjoyed by anyone (4) The absence of pleasure is not bad unless there exists somebody for whom this absence is a deprivation. To this I would say (and I'm sure you've probably seen this counterpoint before but its the first that comes to mind) the presence of pain is not necessarily a bad thing. I have done a few things I found very difficult and painful, and I feel that those are some of the things that taught me the most. I value those experiences more BECAUSE they were painful. They mean something to me, they took more of me. As for point (3) if there is no one then there is no pain, that doesn't make it good or bad. There is nothing, so thus it is nothing. If there is no person to interpret it, then good or bad is meaningless since humans are the deciding factor for good and bad. Anyways, I look forward to your reply! ~Cheers! -Creator~ |
| oh no not this thread again |
And_Ryan said: TheBrainintheJar said: Your girlfriend turned out fine. It doesn't happen to all of us. The problem is once it gets you it never really goes away you can feel fine for days, weeks, even years and in one moment bam it all comes back. It could lie in wait when someone feels this thing hanging over them like a time bomb for the rest of their lives just the idea that it could at any moment strike and tear apart your life can add a lot of pressure to this persons existence. Its always there from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed, every moment of every day, forever. Sure, it could. I never claimed that life was simple or easy. It can be rough, you can end up in the worst situations imaginable, losing your brother in a fire, or having to pick up your friend's body parts when he was KIA by an IED, so he can be shipped home to his parents. Things like that could haunt you forever, but no matter how the shadows and ghosts haunt you, they can't hurt you unless you let them. They are just that ghosts, shadows of the past. The future is there, you just have to reach out and grasp it. You're going to die eventually anyways, might as well chill out here while you wait, you never know a simple change in perspective can make all the difference between PTSD and a happy life. |
| Whoa now where did those examples come from, depression and soldier wartime PTSD are quite different ballparks here. If those are your own personal examples you really should have mentioned them earlier. If they were just plucked at random saying things like that have a tendency to come off seeming of making light of depression as not as bad. I mean if we start stacking common depression with a soldiers severe wartime PTSD its going to end up swaying opinion of those less informed on the subject that normal depressed people are just losers who can't handle normal life. Now I know thats not your intention but thats generally how these things go. |
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And_Ryan said: Whoa now where did those examples come from, depression and soldier wartime PTSD are quite different ballparks here. If those are your own personal examples you really should have mentioned them earlier. If they were just plucked at random saying things like that have a tendency to come off seeming of making light of depression as not as bad. I mean if we start stacking common depression with a soldiers severe wartime PTSD its going to end up swaying opinion of those less informed on the subject that normal depressed people are just losers who can't handle normal life. Now I know thats not your intention but thats generally how these things go. You're probably right, my apologies for getting a bit heated. My only point for bringing that up was that depression does happen, it can hurt you for a long time, you can spend all your time wishing you had done something different. Wishing your friends were still there, or in a lot of peoples cases wishing you hadn't had the experience that you felt ruined everything. The truth is that what happened happened, regretting it, and feeling sorry for what you didn't do won't improve anything. A lot of people view depression and happiness like a number line with happiness being positive and depression being negative. So if they kill themselves its an improvement since they will be going from negative to zero. There is no number line. Depression isn't the negative, its the realization that who or what you lost truly mean't a lot. It is worth remembering, but it's loss doesn't make everything else lose it's value too. Now if you want to kill yourself because you are just disinterested with life, I can't help you, only you can change that, but hopefully you won't give up on it without realizing that one friend can make a life devoid of meaning quite the adventure. -Creator |
| It has a great factor about environment. Studies say that the most common factor about suicide is peer pressure, family problems, bullying, and failure keeping up with the standards. Sigmund Freud tells us that human beings are naturally born with an instinct of death, but because of our life instinct, we continue to live and survive. But what comes to ourselves that our death instinct overwhelms the life instinct? That is the point of the environment nowadays. Instead of nourishing our life instinct to be motivated to survive, we continue to induce such depressive matters to society, nourishing our own destruction. |
| I am not going to judge someone for an act that they decide to do to themselves. It is their life, their body, their decision. With that being said I look at death as the absolute worst thing anyone can go through, since it is the literal end. Humans cannot come back from death, and with so many opportunities in life that many people do not see I question one's individual act of killing themselves. If I come across anyone who wants to end it, I will no doubt put all my energy into trying to make them stay. I do not want anyone, no matter who they are, to die and that includes those whom are suicidal. Yet if they are absolutely sure they want to leave then so be it. I would then fight for their right to die in their own way, on their own time. I do support physician assisted suicide as a means to help people pass over comfortably. For anyone out there who is suicidal... please take one more look at your decision. I don't want you to die... |
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| Don't knock it till you try it. |
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Creatorofgods said: TheBrainintheJar said: Your girlfriend turned out fine. It doesn't happen to all of us. Some people find life unexciting, boring and pointless. There is no direction for them to go. Maybe the Asymmtery Argument (David Benatar's idea) applies to them. Maybe they just hate being alive. Remember: You were forced to live. If people change their minds over time, maybe you'd find out life isn't for you either? Given that what you said was essentially a tautology I would have to agree, it is certainly possible. Although given that there is far too much in life for any human to experience in a lifetime, I would say growing bored of life (i.e. feeling weary because one is unoccupied or lacks interest in one's current activity -websters dictionary) is not due to life being uninteresting but because of the perspective that the person in question has taken in relation to life. Life is neither interesting nor is it uninteresting, it simply is. I find plenty of things pointless, but a simple change of perspective can change that. As for the Asymmetry Argument, I will admit that my research on it was a five minute google search, but from what I can gather the four major tenants are: (1) The presence of pain is bad (2) The presence of pleasure is good (3) The absence of pain is good, even if that good is not enjoyed by anyone (4) The absence of pleasure is not bad unless there exists somebody for whom this absence is a deprivation. To this I would say (and I'm sure you've probably seen this counterpoint before but its the first that comes to mind) the presence of pain is not necessarily a bad thing. I have done a few things I found very difficult and painful, and I feel that those are some of the things that taught me the most. I value those experiences more BECAUSE they were painful. They mean something to me, they took more of me. As for point (3) if there is no one then there is no pain, that doesn't make it good or bad. There is nothing, so thus it is nothing. If there is no person to interpret it, then good or bad is meaningless since humans are the deciding factor for good and bad. Anyways, I look forward to your reply! ~Cheers! -Creator~ I don't think our arugment is whether life has or doesn't have value. It's up to each person to find value in his life. But some don't want to. For some, death works better. Maybe finding meaning takes too much effort, especially if you got PTSD or clinical depression or borderline or other such disorders. Maybe the person's life became a series of mistake he can't live with anymore. Life can be or not worth living. It's not universal. That's why we need euthanasia to let people choose for themselves. I enjoy my life overall, but some people aren't lucky as me. They deserve a clean exit. Also, the Life Is Not a Choice argument: The Right to Live doesn't exist without the Right to Die. A right is something you choose. If it's something that's forced on you, it becomes a duty. Now, you can see that everyone can just jump off a building. But then we're forcing people to hurt themselves. We force them to live and tell them the only way to exit is a painful way that may not work. Hospitals help people be forced into life. Why shouldn't day help people exit? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| I am not gonna be judgmental about people who kill themselves i am about though about those who pretend about it to get attention. If you really feel desperate and tired and just want to eternally sleep and get away from everything you wouldn't make failed attempts or big announcements about it. Just kill yourself with some pride left and don't be an attention whore. If you don't really want to kill yourself and just really want the help of others then be honest and ask for the damn help instead of trying to get attention by pretending you want to die. |
TheBrainintheJar said: I don't think our arugment is whether life has or doesn't have value. It's up to each person to find value in his life. But some don't want to. For some, death works better. Maybe finding meaning takes too much effort, especially if you got PTSD or clinical depression or borderline or other such disorders. Maybe the person's life became a series of mistake he can't live with anymore. Life can be or not worth living. It's not universal. That's why we need euthanasia to let people choose for themselves. I enjoy my life overall, but some people aren't lucky as me. They deserve a clean exit. Also, the Life Is Not a Choice argument: The Right to Live doesn't exist without the Right to Die. A right is something you choose. If it's something that's forced on you, it becomes a duty. Now, you can see that everyone can just jump off a building. But then we're forcing people to hurt themselves. We force them to live and tell them the only way to exit is a painful way that may not work. Hospitals help people be forced into life. Why shouldn't day help people exit? The problem is that depression makes it very easy for you to not make rational decisions. Everyone gets depressed at some point in their life, if even for an instant you may consider not existing being better. If a depressed person could actually be rational and think through their decisions and weigh all the options I think you would be right. I don't remember the young philosopher who did this, but he essentially came to the rational decision that life had no meaning outside of pleasure and enjoyed pleasurable things for a few years and then killed himself when he lost interest in it. If that's what these people are doing then sure. But most of them aren't, they aren't in a state of mine to make very well thought out decisions, they only see a dark hole, and shadows of the past haunting them. Shadows only hurt you if you let them. Psychologists know this, Psychiatrists know this, that's why there is counseling, to change your perspective. Unless you are literally in jail and have no control over your life, theres always a way out. The main reason most of them 'don't want to' is because they can't think rationally and see those ways. It only makes sense to make it difficult for people who aren't making rational decisions to not make rational decisions. -Creator |
Creatorofgods said: TheBrainintheJar said: I don't think our arugment is whether life has or doesn't have value. It's up to each person to find value in his life. But some don't want to. For some, death works better. Maybe finding meaning takes too much effort, especially if you got PTSD or clinical depression or borderline or other such disorders. Maybe the person's life became a series of mistake he can't live with anymore. Life can be or not worth living. It's not universal. That's why we need euthanasia to let people choose for themselves. I enjoy my life overall, but some people aren't lucky as me. They deserve a clean exit. Also, the Life Is Not a Choice argument: The Right to Live doesn't exist without the Right to Die. A right is something you choose. If it's something that's forced on you, it becomes a duty. Now, you can see that everyone can just jump off a building. But then we're forcing people to hurt themselves. We force them to live and tell them the only way to exit is a painful way that may not work. Hospitals help people be forced into life. Why shouldn't day help people exit? The problem is that depression makes it very easy for you to not make rational decisions. Everyone gets depressed at some point in their life, if even for an instant you may consider not existing being better. If a depressed person could actually be rational and think through their decisions and weigh all the options I think you would be right. I don't remember the young philosopher who did this, but he essentially came to the rational decision that life had no meaning outside of pleasure and enjoyed pleasurable things for a few years and then killed himself when he lost interest in it. If that's what these people are doing then sure. But most of them aren't, they aren't in a state of mine to make very well thought out decisions, they only see a dark hole, and shadows of the past haunting them. Shadows only hurt you if you let them. Psychologists know this, Psychiatrists know this, that's why there is counseling, to change your perspective. Unless you are literally in jail and have no control over your life, theres always a way out. The main reason most of them 'don't want to' is because they can't think rationally and see those ways. It only makes sense to make it difficult for people who aren't making rational decisions to not make rational decisions. -Creator A person with depression (brain fucked so he's trapped in anhedonia and can't enjoy anything), with schizophrenia or PTSD has to carry the burden for their whole life. Psych's can make it easier, but they can't make him like us. I also wished you'd respond to the Life Is Not a Choice argument. It's far more important. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| It's not up to me to decide how someone else handles their life. Who am I to say "no" to someone who doesn't want to live their own life? I'm not saying I won't get really sad about it if someone close to me killed themselves. It'd make my insides crumble, but utlimately if that's what they chose and what they would have found the most comfort in, then so be it no matter how sucky it is. |
| Narukami no sukoshi toyomite (A faint clap of thunder) sashi kumori (Clouded skies) Ame mo furanu ka? (Perhaps rain comes) Kimi wo todomemu (If so, will you stay here with me?) |
| There three things that you should know. 1. You're going to die someday, suiciding is pointless. 2. If you want to die, so be it But.... make sure you won't regret it at the very last second, before you start losing your consciousness. 3. 99% of humans around the world has went through the suicidal thought phase, you're not the only one who wants to die, but a lot of people are still living. |
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AnonysAMVs said: 99% of humans around the world has went through the suicidal thought phase Bullshit. |
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