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Nov 11, 2012 6:40 AM

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Aug 2009
20062
Nidhoeggr said:
ssjokg said:
Nidhoeggr said:
Then tell me: How does this make sense? Please, I'm waiting.

1:the caster turns into a monster not one of the races.Alf is one of the races even if it the trophy for the other nine.
2:Have you played a VMMO in your life?No.Neither have I bu how do you know that it is not scary?
It's the same as watching a good horror film.Why would you get scared if it's fake AND in the TV screen.AND if you can be scared by something in the TV screen why is it weird to be scared by something that is "real" in a Virtual world?

Of course I doubt that this will make sense to you.


1. It was established that nobody was scared at illusion magic because even if it looks realistic most players ignore it and just attack like normal. This would especially apply for a party that hunts down someone who is KNOWN to have such a magic because of his race.
2. It doesn't amplify stats, so they should still have way higher damage output against him despite his extended range. They also mentioned how they designed the party to go against him, which implies proper equipment (special resistance, etc.)
3. If illusion magic is so powerful in the hands of a single player, why don't other - more experienced Spriggan - players utilze it to the same effect.
4. Illusion magic the way it is presented here IS useful in combat, which contradict the rules established by the author himself during the past few episodes.

Tell me again that this not a convenient asspull by teh writer. I want to laugh.
1.It was also established that most players that could use illusion magic would transform into a weak monster.Kirito's stats and illusion is what did the trick .Also look at 2 from my previous post.
2.You mean that Kirito isnt already OP enough?Kirito can kill each one of them in one hit as we show with one of Salamander's high level platoon in the ep he meets Lyfa.Kagemune IS one of the highest lvl salamander's so his men must be the same.And designed to go against means they know his stats and equipement. So how did they found out about his stats?His gear was easy but how did they know his stats?Even if you get higher gear if your stats are shit compared to the enemy then you are a goner.Or you say that isnt true in real mmo? He took them out,at least the fighters class one at a time,why is it so weird?As for the mages they obviously are weaker in phys.Def..
3.Expereienced=/=high stats
4.It IS useful in combat because the enemies were noobs enough(except he mage leader)to get scared by the illusion.Since it DOESNT amplify someones stats in IS useless in combat.

asspull by the writer?You are saying that anyone who plays mmo (or like in SAO vmmo) isnt a noob or a retard to be scared by an illusion?

You dont like it so you find it faulty EVERYWHERE. deal with it.
Nov 11, 2012 6:40 AM
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Oct 2012
683
Dessiato said:
symbv said:
Dessiato said:
Presenting feedback on an epsiode and what it has given us is different from referencing the novel.

As far as we are concerned, Kirito's spriggan racial just gave him a godly power upgrade.

That is called bad conveyance, what we can interperet is limited when the adapted source won't bother to go in depth.
In the anime it was already explained by Lyfea that the illusion magic did not make one more powerful. It was not a godly power upgrade. I guess you just have a case of badly misunderstanding what is clear in the anime.

And I did not read the novel.


Except it was conveyed to show the opposite.

The animation and direction made it appear as if what was previously mentioned became void.

The problem is, the illusion is not an illusion, it is changing his mass, and allowing extended combat range and effectiveness, considering he impaled a soldier several feet above the ground.

The rules of illusion magic just took a 180, there is no explanation for the reallocated mass, and strength to support that mass moving at that speed.


It's a transformation spell but the magic school is called illusion.


there is no explanation for the reallocated mass, and strength to support that mass moving at that speed.

You are aware that this happens in a game, right?



Read my previous post.


I don't see anything I haven't adressed.
Nov 11, 2012 6:41 AM
Offline
Aug 2012
412
ssjokg said:
Nidhoeggr said:
ssjokg said:
Nidhoeggr said:
Then tell me: How does this make sense? Please, I'm waiting.

1:the caster turns into a monster not one of the races.Alf is one of the races even if it the trophy for the other nine.
2:Have you played a VMMO in your life?No.Neither have I bu how do you know that it is not scary?
It's the same as watching a good horror film.Why would you get scared if it's fake AND in the TV screen.AND if you can be scared by something in the TV screen why is it weird to be scared by something that is "real" in a Virtual world?

Of course I doubt that this will make sense to you.


1. It was established that nobody was scared at illusion magic because even if it looks realistic most players ignore it and just attack like normal. This would especially apply for a party that hunts down someone who is KNOWN to have such a magic because of his race.
2. It doesn't amplify stats, so they should still have way higher damage output against him despite his extended range. They also mentioned how they designed the party to go against him, which implies proper equipment (special resistance, etc.)
3. If illusion magic is so powerful in the hands of a single player, why don't other - more experienced Spriggan - players utilze it to the same effect.
4. Illusion magic the way it is presented here IS useful in combat, which contradict the rules established by the author himself during the past few episodes.

Tell me again that this not a convenient asspull by teh writer. I want to laugh.
1.It was also established that most players that could use illusion magic would transform into a weak monster.Kirito's stats and illusion is what did the trick .Also look at 2 from my previous post.
2.You mean that Kirito isnt already OP enough?Kirito can kill each one of them in one hit as we show with one of Salamander's high level platoon in the ep he meets Lyfa.Kagemune IS one of the highest lvl salamander's so his men must be the same.And designed to go against means they know his stats and equipement. So how did they found out about his stats?His gear was easy but how did they know his stats?Even if you get higher gear if your stats are shit compared to the enemy then you are a goner.Or you say that isnt true in real mmo? He took them out,at least the fighters class one at a time,why is it so weird?As for the mages they obviously are weaker in phys.Def..
3.Expereienced=/=high stats
4.It IS useful in combat because the enemies were noobs enough(except he mage leader)to get scared by the illusion.Since it DOESNT amplify someones stats in IS useless in combat.

asspull by the writer?You are saying that anyone who plays mmo (or like in SAO vmmo) isnt a noob or a retard to be scared by an illusion?

You dont like it so you find it faulty EVERYWHERE. deal with it.


How is that first impaled man floating in the air at that angle?
Nov 11, 2012 6:42 AM
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Aug 2012
412
whatever123456 said:
Dessiato said:
symbv said:
Dessiato said:
Presenting feedback on an epsiode and what it has given us is different from referencing the novel.

As far as we are concerned, Kirito's spriggan racial just gave him a godly power upgrade.

That is called bad conveyance, what we can interperet is limited when the adapted source won't bother to go in depth.
In the anime it was already explained by Lyfea that the illusion magic did not make one more powerful. It was not a godly power upgrade. I guess you just have a case of badly misunderstanding what is clear in the anime.

And I did not read the novel.


Except it was conveyed to show the opposite.

The animation and direction made it appear as if what was previously mentioned became void.

The problem is, the illusion is not an illusion, it is changing his mass, and allowing extended combat range and effectiveness, considering he impaled a soldier several feet above the ground.

The rules of illusion magic just took a 180, there is no explanation for the reallocated mass, and strength to support that mass moving at that speed.


It's a transformation spell but the magic school is called illusion.


there is no explanation for the reallocated mass, and strength to support that mass moving at that speed.

You are aware that this happens in a game, right?



Read my previous post.


I don't see anything I haven't adressed.


Then it is no longer an illusion.

Creating mass is a different branch of magic altogether.

I think I can settle my case.

That type of logic is a cop out, and it was evidently used by the animators here.

Bad conveyance to show an otherwise decent scene that was described vividly in the LN.
Nov 11, 2012 6:43 AM

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Sep 2012
10121
Dessiato said:

Except it was conveyed to show the opposite.

The animation and direction made it appear as if what was previously mentioned became void.

The problem is, the illusion is not an illusion, it is changing his mass, and allowing extended combat range and effectiveness, considering he impaled a soldier several feet above the ground.
We saw the same anime, right? What was conveyed to me is that it was all illusion. I remembered what Lyfa said about the magic. So the overwhelming killing power of Kirito is just his cheater level, as demonstrated by him when he first came to ALO. As for the impaling several feet above the ground I would say it just goes to say when Kirito could use his full power to kill he could actually lift a player several feet above ground and kill him. The extended combat range I just interpreted as Kirito's super speed.
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
Nov 11, 2012 6:43 AM

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Apr 2009
5766
ssjokg said:


asspull by the writer?You are saying that anyone who plays mmo (or like in SAO vmmo) isnt a noob or a retard to be scared by an illusion?

You dont like it so you find it faulty EVERYWHERE. deal with it.


I just explained my reasoning. And the fact that I don't like it doesn't excuse the bad writing that is obvious to a lot of other people.
Steel Ball Run anime when?
Nov 11, 2012 6:44 AM

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Sep 2012
10121
Nidhoeggr said:

For something that was supposed to be easy to understand you had a lot of explaining to do. I see it once again is an example of a failed adaption as an anime-only viewer quickly perceives the problems I described and only gets very brief hints.
I did a lot of explaining because I wanted to make sure people understand. For me it is easy to understand.
Nidhoeggr said:

Additionally, the very fact that kirito is at "cheater level" already can be seen as bad writing because imho this is nothing but a bad fanwank and takes away from a true sense of achievement that should be present in an adventure story with such a strong focus on (pseudo) RPG elements.
That's something else. You have a tendency to shift topic when you are defeated in one line of debate. Just to save face I suppose.
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
Nov 11, 2012 6:45 AM

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Aug 2009
20062
Nidhoeggr said:

About the other matter: The game balance would still be fucked up the very moment Alfs appear in the game. Why would ANYONE play as his former race when alfs have the biggest possible advantage in the entire game? The design is so obviously flawed.

THATS why we have politics in the game,that some people seem to call stupid.And
Nov 11, 2012 6:45 AM
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Oct 2012
683
Dessiato said:

I don't see anything I haven't adressed.

Then it is no longer an illusion.

Creating mass is a different branch of magic altogether.


I literally said that it's a transformation, not an illusion. No idea why you need to repeat this.



That type of logic is a cop out, and it was evidently used by the animators here.

Bad conveyance to show an otherwise decent scene that was described vividly in the LN.


What? It's inside a video game, it doesn't follow the laws of physics. He doesn't need strength to support a bigger body.
Nov 11, 2012 6:45 AM
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Aug 2012
412
symbv said:
Dessiato said:

Except it was conveyed to show the opposite.

The animation and direction made it appear as if what was previously mentioned became void.

The problem is, the illusion is not an illusion, it is changing his mass, and allowing extended combat range and effectiveness, considering he impaled a soldier several feet above the ground.
We saw the same anime, right? What was conveyed to me is that it was all illusion. I remembered what Lyfa said about the magic. So the overwhelming killing power of Kirito is just his cheater level, as demonstrated by him when he first came to ALO. As for the impaling several feet above the ground I would say it just goes to say when Kirito could use his full power to kill he could actually lift a player several feet above ground and kill him. The extended combat range I just interpreted as Kirito's super speed.


Simultaneously throwing one around while gnawing the other?


This is just trying to make the scene badass by the writers to cash in, I guarantee it, Kirito doesn't have an effective combat length of a few dozen feet to be simultaneously ragdolling enemies.
Nov 11, 2012 6:46 AM

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Sep 2012
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Kirito speeches were really creepy in this episode. LOL at him saying that what you do in this game influences your behavior IRL, when some minutes ago, he turned into a monster and was chomping people left and right. I really hate how everyone takes this game too seriously and that doesn't seem to bother a single character in this anime.

Even if I think this ALO arc is better than the SAO one, there are some things that really bothers me like Kirito's recent decision. Asuna's fate is defintely more important than whatever happens in this stupid game.
Nov 11, 2012 6:48 AM

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Sep 2012
10121
Dessiato said:

Simultaneously throwing one around while gnawing the other?
Yes, when the speed is too high it would look like that. Just like the scene when Kirito and Lyfa pulled across the monsters to get out of the cave. Do you really think the monsters opened a lane for them to run through? No, it is just that Kirito's speed is too fast so that it looked like there is a lane for him to pass through.
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
Nov 11, 2012 6:50 AM
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Aug 2012
412
whatever123456 said:
Dessiato said:

I don't see anything I haven't adressed.

Then it is no longer an illusion.

Creating mass is a different branch of magic altogether.


I literally said that it's a transformation, not an illusion. No idea why you need to repeat this.



That type of logic is a cop out, and it was evidently used by the animators here.

Bad conveyance to show an otherwise decent scene that was described vividly in the LN.


What? It's inside a video game, it doesn't follow the laws of physcis. He doesn't need strength to support a bigger body.


I'm ending my discussion here, there is only a certain degree of density I care to waste my time on.

For those who care enough to have a summary:

What has been described to be illusion magic has been conveyed to be transformation magic capably allowing Kirito to increase his combat effectiveness, allowing him to simultaneously throw around multiple opponents previously not possible with just his sword and wings.
Nov 11, 2012 6:51 AM

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Aug 2009
20062
Dessiato said:
ssjokg said:
Nidhoeggr said:
ssjokg said:
Nidhoeggr said:
Then tell me: How does this make sense? Please, I'm waiting.

1:the caster turns into a monster not one of the races.Alf is one of the races even if it the trophy for the other nine.
2:Have you played a VMMO in your life?No.Neither have I bu how do you know that it is not scary?
It's the same as watching a good horror film.Why would you get scared if it's fake AND in the TV screen.AND if you can be scared by something in the TV screen why is it weird to be scared by something that is "real" in a Virtual world?

Of course I doubt that this will make sense to you.


1. It was established that nobody was scared at illusion magic because even if it looks realistic most players ignore it and just attack like normal. This would especially apply for a party that hunts down someone who is KNOWN to have such a magic because of his race.
2. It doesn't amplify stats, so they should still have way higher damage output against him despite his extended range. They also mentioned how they designed the party to go against him, which implies proper equipment (special resistance, etc.)
3. If illusion magic is so powerful in the hands of a single player, why don't other - more experienced Spriggan - players utilze it to the same effect.
4. Illusion magic the way it is presented here IS useful in combat, which contradict the rules established by the author himself during the past few episodes.

Tell me again that this not a convenient asspull by teh writer. I want to laugh.
1.It was also established that most players that could use illusion magic would transform into a weak monster.Kirito's stats and illusion is what did the trick .Also look at 2 from my previous post.
2.You mean that Kirito isnt already OP enough?Kirito can kill each one of them in one hit as we show with one of Salamander's high level platoon in the ep he meets Lyfa.Kagemune IS one of the highest lvl salamander's so his men must be the same.And designed to go against means they know his stats and equipement. So how did they found out about his stats?His gear was easy but how did they know his stats?Even if you get higher gear if your stats are shit compared to the enemy then you are a goner.Or you say that isnt true in real mmo? He took them out,at least the fighters class one at a time,why is it so weird?As for the mages they obviously are weaker in phys.Def..
3.Expereienced=/=high stats
4.It IS useful in combat because the enemies were noobs enough(except he mage leader)to get scared by the illusion.Since it DOESNT amplify someones stats in IS useless in combat.

asspull by the writer?You are saying that anyone who plays mmo (or like in SAO vmmo) isnt a noob or a retard to be scared by an illusion?

You dont like it so you find it faulty EVERYWHERE. deal with it.


How is that first impaled man floating in the air at that angle?

I dont see the problem here.How was he killed doesnt change the fact that Kirito can onehit kill them.Kirito has stated that he did transform.He wasnt normal while the others were seeing a monster.I dont know if this falls in illusions school or any other but his Ultra high stats and the fact that he already could onehit kill them doesnt change.
Nov 11, 2012 6:52 AM

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Sep 2012
10121
Dessiato said:

What has been described to be illusion magic has been conveyed to be transformation magic capably allowing Kirito to increase his combat effectiveness, allowing him to simultaneously throw around multiple opponents previously not possible with just his sword and wings.
Add: when you failed to take the information already present in the anime.
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
Nov 11, 2012 6:53 AM

Offline
Apr 2009
5766
symbv said:
Nidhoeggr said:

For something that was supposed to be easy to understand you had a lot of explaining to do. I see it once again is an example of a failed adaption as an anime-only viewer quickly perceives the problems I described and only gets very brief hints.
I did a lot of explaining because I wanted to make sure people understand. For me it is easy to understand.
Nidhoeggr said:

Additionally, the very fact that kirito is at "cheater level" already can be seen as bad writing because imho this is nothing but a bad fanwank and takes away from a true sense of achievement that should be present in an adventure story with such a strong focus on (pseudo) RPG elements.
That's something else. You have a tendency to shift topic when you are defeated in one line of debate. Just to save face I suppose.


For me, the very core premise of this arc is flawed which leads to the bad writing presented in this scene. And while i concede that the flaw I mentioned in this episode can be rationalized in a way you showed us, it is still inherent to the flawed writing of the author (or at least the anime staff) that was displayed throughout the entire series. Shifting the focus is only logical then, because it helps us to understand the reasoning behind this very scene better. This is not chicken out, this is going deeper.

ssjokg said:
Nidhoeggr said:

About the other matter: The game balance would still be fucked up the very moment Alfs appear in the game. Why would ANYONE play as his former race when alfs have the biggest possible advantage in the entire game? The design is so obviously flawed.

THATS why we have politics in the game,that some people seem to call stupid.And


That's good. I like this twist because it removes the biggest flaw in this setting. About the politics...

SetsukoHara said:
I really hate how everyone takes this game too seriously and that doesn't seem to bother a single character in this anime.


The whole extra-serious attitude of everyone in this anime sounds unreasonable because well, it's just a fucking game - especially since they can't die here.
Steel Ball Run anime when?
Nov 11, 2012 6:53 AM
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Aug 2012
412
ssjokg said:
Dessiato said:
ssjokg said:
Nidhoeggr said:
ssjokg said:
Nidhoeggr said:
Then tell me: How does this make sense? Please, I'm waiting.

1:the caster turns into a monster not one of the races.Alf is one of the races even if it the trophy for the other nine.
2:Have you played a VMMO in your life?No.Neither have I bu how do you know that it is not scary?
It's the same as watching a good horror film.Why would you get scared if it's fake AND in the TV screen.AND if you can be scared by something in the TV screen why is it weird to be scared by something that is "real" in a Virtual world?

Of course I doubt that this will make sense to you.


1. It was established that nobody was scared at illusion magic because even if it looks realistic most players ignore it and just attack like normal. This would especially apply for a party that hunts down someone who is KNOWN to have such a magic because of his race.
2. It doesn't amplify stats, so they should still have way higher damage output against him despite his extended range. They also mentioned how they designed the party to go against him, which implies proper equipment (special resistance, etc.)
3. If illusion magic is so powerful in the hands of a single player, why don't other - more experienced Spriggan - players utilze it to the same effect.
4. Illusion magic the way it is presented here IS useful in combat, which contradict the rules established by the author himself during the past few episodes.

Tell me again that this not a convenient asspull by teh writer. I want to laugh.
1.It was also established that most players that could use illusion magic would transform into a weak monster.Kirito's stats and illusion is what did the trick .Also look at 2 from my previous post.
2.You mean that Kirito isnt already OP enough?Kirito can kill each one of them in one hit as we show with one of Salamander's high level platoon in the ep he meets Lyfa.Kagemune IS one of the highest lvl salamander's so his men must be the same.And designed to go against means they know his stats and equipement. So how did they found out about his stats?His gear was easy but how did they know his stats?Even if you get higher gear if your stats are shit compared to the enemy then you are a goner.Or you say that isnt true in real mmo? He took them out,at least the fighters class one at a time,why is it so weird?As for the mages they obviously are weaker in phys.Def..
3.Expereienced=/=high stats
4.It IS useful in combat because the enemies were noobs enough(except he mage leader)to get scared by the illusion.Since it DOESNT amplify someones stats in IS useless in combat.

asspull by the writer?You are saying that anyone who plays mmo (or like in SAO vmmo) isnt a noob or a retard to be scared by an illusion?

You dont like it so you find it faulty EVERYWHERE. deal with it.


How is that first impaled man floating in the air at that angle?

I dont see the problem here.How was he killed doesnt change the fact that Kirito can onehit kill them.Kirito has stated that he did transform.He wasnt normal while the others were seeing a monster.I dont know if this falls in illusions school or any other but his Ultra high stats and the fact that he already could onehit kill them doesnt change.


The shape of his transformation is now effecting physical interactions with the enemies, moving one enemy left, while the other right as if being controlled by two independant sources.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ron0rmQgjE4

1:05 is the perfect example.

I can tell you for a fact even with wings, you cannot replicate that kind of movement.

I think that's enough of a debunk for today.

This is transformation magic, the animators wanted to make an epic scene, so they created a plothole.
Nov 11, 2012 6:54 AM

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Sep 2012
10121
ssjokg said:
Kirito has stated that he did transform.He wasnt normal while the others were seeing a monster.
The part Kirito told Lyfa later I took him to be joking as he later admitted (to smooth out the tense mood from the combat).
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
Nov 11, 2012 6:54 AM
Offline
Oct 2012
683
Dessiato said:
whatever123456 said:
Dessiato said:

I don't see anything I haven't adressed.

Then it is no longer an illusion.

Creating mass is a different branch of magic altogether.


I literally said that it's a transformation, not an illusion. No idea why you need to repeat this.



That type of logic is a cop out, and it was evidently used by the animators here.

Bad conveyance to show an otherwise decent scene that was described vividly in the LN.


What? It's inside a video game, it doesn't follow the laws of physcis. He doesn't need strength to support a bigger body.


I'm ending my discussion here, there is only a certain degree of density I care to waste my time on.

For those who care enough to have a summary:

What has been described to be illusion magic has been conveyed to be transformation magic capably allowing Kirito to increase his combat effectiveness, allowing him to simultaneously throw around multiple opponents previously not possible with just his sword and wings.


Dessiato said:

As far as we are concerned, Kirito's spriggan racial just gave him a godly power upgrade.


Heh.
I like how you started with "godly power upgrade" and change it to "increase in combat effectiveness" when you get refuted and then proceed to call me dense for adressing your original point.
Nov 11, 2012 6:54 AM

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Aug 2009
20062
Dessiato said:
whatever123456 said:
Dessiato said:

I don't see anything I haven't adressed.

Then it is no longer an illusion.

Creating mass is a different branch of magic altogether.


I literally said that it's a transformation, not an illusion. No idea why you need to repeat this.



That type of logic is a cop out, and it was evidently used by the animators here.

Bad conveyance to show an otherwise decent scene that was described vividly in the LN.


What? It's inside a video game, it doesn't follow the laws of physcis. He doesn't need strength to support a bigger body.


I'm ending my discussion here, there is only a certain degree of density I care to waste my time on.

For those who care enough to have a summary:

What has been described to be illusion magic has been conveyed to be transformation magic capably allowing Kirito to increase his combat effectiveness, allowing him to simultaneously throw around multiple opponents previously not possible with just his sword and wings.

How do you know that?He never tried.And the shields obviously wouldnt let him IMPALE them with his sword.

ALSO for those that didnt notice it Kirito did change into a monster.
Nov 11, 2012 6:59 AM

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Aug 2009
20062
Dessiato said:
ssjokg said:
Dessiato said:
ssjokg said:
Nidhoeggr said:
ssjokg said:
Nidhoeggr said:
Then tell me: How does this make sense? Please, I'm waiting.

1:the caster turns into a monster not one of the races.Alf is one of the races even if it the trophy for the other nine.
2:Have you played a VMMO in your life?No.Neither have I bu how do you know that it is not scary?
It's the same as watching a good horror film.Why would you get scared if it's fake AND in the TV screen.AND if you can be scared by something in the TV screen why is it weird to be scared by something that is "real" in a Virtual world?

Of course I doubt that this will make sense to you.


1. It was established that nobody was scared at illusion magic because even if it looks realistic most players ignore it and just attack like normal. This would especially apply for a party that hunts down someone who is KNOWN to have such a magic because of his race.
2. It doesn't amplify stats, so they should still have way higher damage output against him despite his extended range. They also mentioned how they designed the party to go against him, which implies proper equipment (special resistance, etc.)
3. If illusion magic is so powerful in the hands of a single player, why don't other - more experienced Spriggan - players utilze it to the same effect.
4. Illusion magic the way it is presented here IS useful in combat, which contradict the rules established by the author himself during the past few episodes.

Tell me again that this not a convenient asspull by teh writer. I want to laugh.
1.It was also established that most players that could use illusion magic would transform into a weak monster.Kirito's stats and illusion is what did the trick .Also look at 2 from my previous post.
2.You mean that Kirito isnt already OP enough?Kirito can kill each one of them in one hit as we show with one of Salamander's high level platoon in the ep he meets Lyfa.Kagemune IS one of the highest lvl salamander's so his men must be the same.And designed to go against means they know his stats and equipement. So how did they found out about his stats?His gear was easy but how did they know his stats?Even if you get higher gear if your stats are shit compared to the enemy then you are a goner.Or you say that isnt true in real mmo? He took them out,at least the fighters class one at a time,why is it so weird?As for the mages they obviously are weaker in phys.Def..
3.Expereienced=/=high stats
4.It IS useful in combat because the enemies were noobs enough(except he mage leader)to get scared by the illusion.Since it DOESNT amplify someones stats in IS useless in combat.

asspull by the writer?You are saying that anyone who plays mmo (or like in SAO vmmo) isnt a noob or a retard to be scared by an illusion?

You dont like it so you find it faulty EVERYWHERE. deal with it.


How is that first impaled man floating in the air at that angle?

I dont see the problem here.How was he killed doesnt change the fact that Kirito can onehit kill them.Kirito has stated that he did transform.He wasnt normal while the others were seeing a monster.I dont know if this falls in illusions school or any other but his Ultra high stats and the fact that he already could onehit kill them doesnt change.


The shape of his transformation is now effecting physical interactions with the enemies, moving one enemy left, while the other right as if being controlled by two independant sources.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ron0rmQgjE4

1:05 is the perfect example.

I can tell you for a fact even with wings, you cannot replicate that kind of movement.

I think that's enough of a debunk for today.

This is transformation magic, the animators wanted to make an epic scene, so they created a plothole.
Read my bolds and then the bolds in your reply.Where did I say that he had his normal body/avatar?I said that he DID transform into the GleamEyes.How did you misread it judging by your reply?
Nov 11, 2012 7:00 AM

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Nidhoeggr said:
For me, the very core premise of this arc is flawed which leads to the bad writing presented in this scene. And while i concede that the flaw I mentioned in this episode can be rationalized in a way you showed us, it is still inherent to the flawed writing of the author (or at least the anime staff) that was displayed throughout the entire series. Shifting the focus is only logical then, because it helps us to understand the reasoning behind this very scene better. This is not chicken out, this is going deeper.
I think we are talking here. I do admit that there is flawed writing in SAO/ALO and it is definitely not helped by further bad writing by the anime staff. But I really do not think making Kirito a cheater-level strong character is by itself and alone bad writing. It all depends on how that premise is used. For that part I do not really have too much of problem so far because we are not seeing Kirito use his super-level power everywhere and all the time. He still faces limits and restriction in this world, and he is still navigating and learning things. It is not as if he uses his super-combat-power to trailblaze to his goal. Which is why I do not think that the combat in this episode presents a case of bad writing. A bit of need for better animation, perhaps, but not bad writing.
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
Nov 11, 2012 7:01 AM
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Alright.

Since there is massive amounts of butthurt and people assuming I am even getting refuted, lets cover the ground base.

I have provided my evidence, and developed them into strong conclusions, I have been given "what ifs", I expected a half decent discussion, not circular logic arguments that only end up creating a minor differentation in my wording which I am later called out upon.

I didn't enter this discussion with the intention to troll, or flame bait, but instead I have received the standard response one would expect from a fanbase who can't stand to see a major flaw in writing elements within their show, instead you have provided me with the motivation to type out these explantions to most likely clear the air and confusion with the few hundred people that will read this, and actually take my analysis with a grain of salt and thought.

We have a MC who can break racial magic abilities and transcend them into a higher art. Illusion --> transformation.
limpbuttmanNov 11, 2012 7:05 AM
Nov 11, 2012 7:02 AM

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Dessiato said:
The shape of his transformation is now effecting physical interactions with the enemies, moving one enemy left, while the other right as if being controlled by two independant sources.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ron0rmQgjE4

1:05 is the perfect example.

I can tell you for a fact even with wings, you cannot replicate that kind of movement.

I think that's enough of a debunk for today.
I don't see any problem with 1:05 or whatever in the clip. It still agrees with my observation.
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
Nov 11, 2012 7:03 AM

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Seems like the illusion magic is tangible but supposed to be weak similar to Naruto's Kagebunshin (like low HP and can easily be destroyed) however, Kirito's overpowered stats + illusion magic makes that illusion so strong. Same concept of illusions with Katekyo Hitman Reborn!
Nov 11, 2012 7:05 AM

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Dessiato said:

I have provided my evidence, and developed them into strong conclusions, I have been given "what ifs", I expected a half decent discussion, not circular logic arguments that only end up creating a minor differentation in my wording which I am later called out upon.
Strong conclusions looks strong only for you. What I see is that your interpretation is not the only valid interpretations, and there is better one available.
Dessiato said:

I did enter this discussion with the intention to troll, or flame bait, but instead I have received the standard response one would expect from a fanbase who can't stand to see a major flaw in writing elements within their show, instead you have provided me with the motivation to type out these explantions to most likely clear the air and confusion with the few hundred people that will read this, and actually take my analysis with a grain of salt and thought.
You admitted your intention to troll?
Anyway, I do not consider myself a fan of SAO. In fact the anime is only in middle rank of the anime I am watching this season, but what you talked about is never any major flaw. I think it is pretty clear that it makes sense in the anime.
So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.
Nov 11, 2012 7:05 AM
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symbv said:
Dessiato said:

I have provided my evidence, and developed them into strong conclusions, I have been given "what ifs", I expected a half decent discussion, not circular logic arguments that only end up creating a minor differentation in my wording which I am later called out upon.
Strong conclusions looks strong only for you. What I see is that your interpretation is not the only valid interpretations, and there is better one available.
Dessiato said:

I did enter this discussion with the intention to troll, or flame bait, but instead I have received the standard response one would expect from a fanbase who can't stand to see a major flaw in writing elements within their show, instead you have provided me with the motivation to type out these explantions to most likely clear the air and confusion with the few hundred people that will read this, and actually take my analysis with a grain of salt and thought.
You admitted your intention to troll?
Anyway, I do not consider myself a fan of SAO. In fact the anime is only in middle rank of the anime I am watching this season, but what you talked about is never any major flaw. I think it is pretty clear that it makes sense in the anime.


Obvious wording mistake, terribly sorry about that.
Nov 11, 2012 7:07 AM

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Dessiato said:
Alright.

Since there is massive amounts of butthurt and people assuming I am even getting refuted, lets cover the ground base.

I have provided my evidence, and developed them into strong conclusions, I have been given "what ifs", I expected a half decent discussion, not circular logic arguments that only end up creating a minor differentation in my wording which I am later called out upon.

I did enter this discussion with the intention to troll, or flame bait, but instead I have received the standard response one would expect from a fanbase who can't stand to see a major flaw in writing elements within their show, instead you have provided me with the motivation to type out these explantions to most likely clear the air and confusion with the few hundred people that will read this, and actually take my analysis with a grain of salt and thought.

We have a MC who can break racial magic abilities and transcend them into a higher art. Illusion --> transformation.
Although I agree that it isnt 100% illusion isnt changing your appearance also considered an illusion?Also can someone tell me the right school for the "illusion" kirito used?
Nov 11, 2012 7:07 AM
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Dessiato said:

I did enter this discussion with the intention to troll, or flame bait


Thanks for your honesty.

Dessiato said:

We have a MC who can break racial magic abilities and transcend them into a higher art. Illusion --> transformation.


Nobody transcended anything, the spell is a transformation spell that falls under the magic school of illusion.
Nov 11, 2012 7:09 AM
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ssjokg said:
Dessiato said:
Alright.

Since there is massive amounts of butthurt and people assuming I am even getting refuted, lets cover the ground base.

I have provided my evidence, and developed them into strong conclusions, I have been given "what ifs", I expected a half decent discussion, not circular logic arguments that only end up creating a minor differentation in my wording which I am later called out upon.

I did enter this discussion with the intention to troll, or flame bait, but instead I have received the standard response one would expect from a fanbase who can't stand to see a major flaw in writing elements within their show, instead you have provided me with the motivation to type out these explantions to most likely clear the air and confusion with the few hundred people that will read this, and actually take my analysis with a grain of salt and thought.

We have a MC who can break racial magic abilities and transcend them into a higher art. Illusion --> transformation.
Although I agree that it isnt 100% illusion isnt changing your appearance also considered an illusion?Also can someone tell me the right school for the "illusion" kirito used?


Changing your appearance is illusion, but it would be like a veil or cover, you would still be that small character in many of the tradtional senses that are derived from DnD, if anyone passes through it, they notice it.

This is pretty much blatant transformation/transfiguration I THINK. Not too sure on the transifguration, since if it was a branch of illusion under transformation that counteracts against them saying the reach is artificial.

*edit

Reading that again I think that was what I needed to settle this case, I will try to further explain it for a bit more here if people still don't get it.

Nov 11, 2012 7:12 AM

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Dessiato said:
ssjokg said:
Dessiato said:
Alright.

Since there is massive amounts of butthurt and people assuming I am even getting refuted, lets cover the ground base.

I have provided my evidence, and developed them into strong conclusions, I have been given "what ifs", I expected a half decent discussion, not circular logic arguments that only end up creating a minor differentation in my wording which I am later called out upon.

I did enter this discussion with the intention to troll, or flame bait, but instead I have received the standard response one would expect from a fanbase who can't stand to see a major flaw in writing elements within their show, instead you have provided me with the motivation to type out these explantions to most likely clear the air and confusion with the few hundred people that will read this, and actually take my analysis with a grain of salt and thought.

We have a MC who can break racial magic abilities and transcend them into a higher art. Illusion --> transformation.
Although I agree that it isnt 100% illusion isnt changing your appearance also considered an illusion?Also can someone tell me the right school for the "illusion" kirito used?


Changing your appearance is illusion, but it would be like a veil or cover, you would still be that small character in many of the tradtional senses that are derived from DnD, if anyone passes through it, they notice it.

This is pretty much blatant transformation/transfiguration I THINK. Not too sure on the transifguration, since if it was a branch of illusion under transformation that counteracts against them saying the reach is artificial.


After a search I did in other games would his spell fall more under the School of Conjuration or a mix of Conjuration and Illusion?
ssjokgNov 11, 2012 7:16 AM
Nov 11, 2012 7:14 AM
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ssjokg said:
Dessiato said:
ssjokg said:
Dessiato said:
Alright.

Since there is massive amounts of butthurt and people assuming I am even getting refuted, lets cover the ground base.

I have provided my evidence, and developed them into strong conclusions, I have been given "what ifs", I expected a half decent discussion, not circular logic arguments that only end up creating a minor differentation in my wording which I am later called out upon.

I did enter this discussion with the intention to troll, or flame bait, but instead I have received the standard response one would expect from a fanbase who can't stand to see a major flaw in writing elements within their show, instead you have provided me with the motivation to type out these explantions to most likely clear the air and confusion with the few hundred people that will read this, and actually take my analysis with a grain of salt and thought.

We have a MC who can break racial magic abilities and transcend them into a higher art. Illusion --> transformation.
Although I agree that it isnt 100% illusion isnt changing your appearance also considered an illusion?Also can someone tell me the right school for the "illusion" kirito used?


Changing your appearance is illusion, but it would be like a veil or cover, you would still be that small character in many of the tradtional senses that are derived from DnD, if anyone passes through it, they notice it.

This is pretty much blatant transformation/transfiguration I THINK. Not too sure on the transifguration, since if it was a branch of illusion under transformation that counteracts against them saying the reach is artificial.


After a search I did in other games would his spell fall morel under the School of Conjuration or a mix of Conjuration and Illusion?


I think another race can do summoning, which is conjuration, I am not sure about the branches on conjuration though. My experience in skyrim tells me it is just summoning armor and monsters to fight for you.
Nov 11, 2012 7:16 AM
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Dessiato said:
ssjokg said:
Dessiato said:
ssjokg said:
Dessiato said:
Alright.

Since there is massive amounts of butthurt and people assuming I am even getting refuted, lets cover the ground base.

I have provided my evidence, and developed them into strong conclusions, I have been given "what ifs", I expected a half decent discussion, not circular logic arguments that only end up creating a minor differentation in my wording which I am later called out upon.

I did enter this discussion with the intention to troll, or flame bait, but instead I have received the standard response one would expect from a fanbase who can't stand to see a major flaw in writing elements within their show, instead you have provided me with the motivation to type out these explantions to most likely clear the air and confusion with the few hundred people that will read this, and actually take my analysis with a grain of salt and thought.

We have a MC who can break racial magic abilities and transcend them into a higher art. Illusion --> transformation.
Although I agree that it isnt 100% illusion isnt changing your appearance also considered an illusion?Also can someone tell me the right school for the "illusion" kirito used?


Changing your appearance is illusion, but it would be like a veil or cover, you would still be that small character in many of the tradtional senses that are derived from DnD, if anyone passes through it, they notice it.

This is pretty much blatant transformation/transfiguration I THINK. Not too sure on the transifguration, since if it was a branch of illusion under transformation that counteracts against them saying the reach is artificial.


After a search I did in other games would his spell fall morel under the School of Conjuration or a mix of Conjuration and Illusion?


I think another race can do summoning, which is conjuration, I am not sure about the branches on conjuration though. My experience in skyrim tells me it is just summoning armor and monsters to fight for you.


Shapeshifting technically falls under neither of those, yet there are games where it does. In SAO, it is in the illusion school, like I said before.
Nov 11, 2012 7:16 AM

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Dessiato said:
ssjokg said:
Dessiato said:
ssjokg said:
Dessiato said:
Alright.

Since there is massive amounts of butthurt and people assuming I am even getting refuted, lets cover the ground base.

I have provided my evidence, and developed them into strong conclusions, I have been given "what ifs", I expected a half decent discussion, not circular logic arguments that only end up creating a minor differentation in my wording which I am later called out upon.

I did enter this discussion with the intention to troll, or flame bait, but instead I have received the standard response one would expect from a fanbase who can't stand to see a major flaw in writing elements within their show, instead you have provided me with the motivation to type out these explantions to most likely clear the air and confusion with the few hundred people that will read this, and actually take my analysis with a grain of salt and thought.

We have a MC who can break racial magic abilities and transcend them into a higher art. Illusion --> transformation.
Although I agree that it isnt 100% illusion isnt changing your appearance also considered an illusion?Also can someone tell me the right school for the "illusion" kirito used?


Changing your appearance is illusion, but it would be like a veil or cover, you would still be that small character in many of the tradtional senses that are derived from DnD, if anyone passes through it, they notice it.

This is pretty much blatant transformation/transfiguration I THINK. Not too sure on the transifguration, since if it was a branch of illusion under transformation that counteracts against them saying the reach is artificial.


After a search I did in other games would his spell fall morel under the School of Conjuration or a mix of Conjuration and Illusion?


I think another race can do summoning, which is conjuration, I am not sure about the branches on conjuration though. My experience in skyrim tells me it is just summoning armor and monsters to fight for you.
Too bad that my only exp with magic schools is also skyrim so...yeah...
Nov 11, 2012 7:18 AM
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whatever123456 said:
Dessiato said:
ssjokg said:
Dessiato said:
ssjokg said:
Dessiato said:
Alright.

Since there is massive amounts of butthurt and people assuming I am even getting refuted, lets cover the ground base.

I have provided my evidence, and developed them into strong conclusions, I have been given "what ifs", I expected a half decent discussion, not circular logic arguments that only end up creating a minor differentation in my wording which I am later called out upon.

I did enter this discussion with the intention to troll, or flame bait, but instead I have received the standard response one would expect from a fanbase who can't stand to see a major flaw in writing elements within their show, instead you have provided me with the motivation to type out these explantions to most likely clear the air and confusion with the few hundred people that will read this, and actually take my analysis with a grain of salt and thought.

We have a MC who can break racial magic abilities and transcend them into a higher art. Illusion --> transformation.
Although I agree that it isnt 100% illusion isnt changing your appearance also considered an illusion?Also can someone tell me the right school for the "illusion" kirito used?


Changing your appearance is illusion, but it would be like a veil or cover, you would still be that small character in many of the tradtional senses that are derived from DnD, if anyone passes through it, they notice it.

This is pretty much blatant transformation/transfiguration I THINK. Not too sure on the transifguration, since if it was a branch of illusion under transformation that counteracts against them saying the reach is artificial.


After a search I did in other games would his spell fall morel under the School of Conjuration or a mix of Conjuration and Illusion?


I think another race can do summoning, which is conjuration, I am not sure about the branches on conjuration though. My experience in skyrim tells me it is just summoning armor and monsters to fight for you.


Shapeshifting technically falls under neither of those, yet there are games where it does. In SAO, it is in the illusion school, like I said before.


that counteracts against them saying the reach is artificial, since we have confirmed it to have been altered from the ability.
Nov 11, 2012 7:25 AM

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gillbobjones said:
I don't like how kirito can go from "I must save Asuna, even if it costs me my life blah blah blah" to...well.... this episode.

Yeah it's like he forgot about her ;_; I miss Asuna!
I like the part where Kirito bites Lyfa's fingers and then gets slapped LOL Also, when Kirito bribes that last Salamander for information XD
Nov 11, 2012 7:26 AM

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about Spriggan
"The Spriggan are a race within Alfheim Online. They are known for their illusion type magic, though they are unpopular due to most illusions not being useful in combat."

Hm.It looks like Kawahara couldnt decide which known school of magic to give them so he gave them the Illusion magic.And since it isnt the only spell Spriggans or other races can use I wonder if he really did try an illusion skill or just memorized the first spell Yui told him to.

Note that, ALL races have access to all magics but each race has "extra bonus" for their specialty.Not sure about beast taming though.Is it even magic?
Nov 11, 2012 7:29 AM
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Nov 11, 2012 7:30 AM
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Dessiato said:
whatever123456 said:

Shapeshifting technically falls under neither of those, yet there are games where it does. In SAO, it is in the illusion school, like I said before.


that counteracts against them saying the reach is artificial, since we have confirmed it to have been altered from the ability.


Who is "them"? In the anime they say that he has longer reach in this form.





Nov 11, 2012 7:32 AM
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whatever123456 said:
Dessiato said:
whatever123456 said:

Shapeshifting technically falls under neither of those, yet there are games where it does. In SAO, it is in the illusion school, like I said before.


that counteracts against them saying the reach is artificial, since we have confirmed it to have been altered from the ability.


Who is "them"? In the anime they say that he has longer reach in this form.


Them is the guys he absolutely wrecked.

They actually say not to be tricked, by the reach the monster appears to have, it can only reach where kirito can normally access (since it can't transcend his normal abilities, which I debunked he did do later)and his scary looks.

The translation was very rough and innacurate for that line, the context carried to the second part of the statement.
Nov 11, 2012 7:35 AM

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Dessiato said:
Nov 11, 2012 7:35 AM
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ssjokg said:
Dessiato said:


Ah, I must of forgotten.
Nov 11, 2012 7:36 AM
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Dessiato said:
whatever123456 said:
Dessiato said:
whatever123456 said:

Shapeshifting technically falls under neither of those, yet there are games where it does. In SAO, it is in the illusion school, like I said before.


that counteracts against them saying the reach is artificial, since we have confirmed it to have been altered from the ability.


Who is "them"? In the anime they say that he has longer reach in this form.


Them is the guys he absolutely wrecked.

They actually say not to be tricked, by the reach the monster appears to have, it can only reach where kirito can normally access (since it can't transcend his normal abilities, which I debunked he did do later)and his scary looks.

The translation was very rough and innacurate for that line, the context carried to the second part of the statement.


I'm sorry but I fail to see the problem here. Maybe I understood something wrong?
The guys you mentioned said he had a longer reach in that form, which confirms what I said. So what exactly is your point?
Nov 11, 2012 7:39 AM
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whatever123456 said:
Dessiato said:
whatever123456 said:
Dessiato said:
whatever123456 said:

Shapeshifting technically falls under neither of those, yet there are games where it does. In SAO, it is in the illusion school, like I said before.


that counteracts against them saying the reach is artificial, since we have confirmed it to have been altered from the ability.


Who is "them"? In the anime they say that he has longer reach in this form.


Them is the guys he absolutely wrecked.

They actually say not to be tricked, by the reach the monster appears to have, it can only reach where kirito can normally access (since it can't transcend his normal abilities, which I debunked he did do later)and his scary looks.

The translation was very rough and innacurate for that line, the context carried to the second part of the statement.


I'm sorry but I fail to see the problem here. Maybe I understood something wrong?
The guys you mentioned said he had a longer reach in that form, which confirms what I said. So what exactly is your point?


I guess you were missing key points,

around 57 seconds or one minute in, he is dangling around two people at once, that is out of his reach and physical capability...

What have you been arguing this entire time? The rest of the people stopped a long time ago.

I can only go so far to spend time explaining this over and over, this has become a convoluted cesspit.
Nov 11, 2012 7:39 AM
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This is madness! People are arguing over a simple show like SAO? Ridiculous! There's a show like Lain confusing as fuck needs explanation here and there. -sigh- People and their inability to understand a simple show. How old are you? 15? Well, that's explain a lot.
Signature removed. See your messages for more information.
Nov 11, 2012 7:41 AM
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Dessiato said:
whatever123456 said:
Dessiato said:
whatever123456 said:
Dessiato said:
whatever123456 said:

Shapeshifting technically falls under neither of those, yet there are games where it does. In SAO, it is in the illusion school, like I said before.


that counteracts against them saying the reach is artificial, since we have confirmed it to have been altered from the ability.


Who is "them"? In the anime they say that he has longer reach in this form.


Them is the guys he absolutely wrecked.

They actually say not to be tricked, by the reach the monster appears to have, it can only reach where kirito can normally access (since it can't transcend his normal abilities, which I debunked he did do later)and his scary looks.

The translation was very rough and innacurate for that line, the context carried to the second part of the statement.


I'm sorry but I fail to see the problem here. Maybe I understood something wrong?
The guys you mentioned said he had a longer reach in that form, which confirms what I said. So what exactly is your point?


I guess you were missing key points,

around 57 seconds or one minute in, he is dangling around two people at once, that is out of his reach and physical capability...

What have you been arguing this entire time? The rest of the people stopped a long time ago.

I can only go so far to spend time explaining this over and over, this has become a convoluted cesspit.


I absolutely fail to see your point here. I said from the beginning that this was an actual transformation rather than an illusion.
Nov 11, 2012 7:43 AM

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Dessiato said:
whatever123456 said:
Dessiato said:
whatever123456 said:
Dessiato said:
whatever123456 said:

Shapeshifting technically falls under neither of those, yet there are games where it does. In SAO, it is in the illusion school, like I said before.


that counteracts against them saying the reach is artificial, since we have confirmed it to have been altered from the ability.


Who is "them"? In the anime they say that he has longer reach in this form.


Them is the guys he absolutely wrecked.

They actually say not to be tricked, by the reach the monster appears to have, it can only reach where kirito can normally access (since it can't transcend his normal abilities, which I debunked he did do later)and his scary looks.

The translation was very rough and innacurate for that line, the context carried to the second part of the statement.


I'm sorry but I fail to see the problem here. Maybe I understood something wrong?
The guys you mentioned said he had a longer reach in that form, which confirms what I said. So what exactly is your point?


I guess you were missing key points,

around 57 seconds or one minute in, he is dangling around two people at once, that is out of his reach and physical capability...

What have you been arguing this entire time? The rest of the people stopped a long time ago.

I can only go so far to spend time explaining this over and over, this has become a convoluted cesspit.


Since we agreed that he DID change his reach and physical capability.It wasnt a true illusion thats for sure.
Nov 11, 2012 7:44 AM
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Aug 2012
412
@whatever
Then what are you arguing?

He broke the illusion tree, illusion can not generate mass under any circumstance. And if it is transformation, it is inconsistent since the opponents identified it as illusion.

limpbuttmanNov 11, 2012 7:47 AM
Nov 11, 2012 7:47 AM
Offline
Oct 2012
683
Dessiato said:
@whatever
Then what are you arguing?

He broke the illusion tree, illusion can not generate mass under any circumstance in every DnD edition that was out during the writing of the source material, and the new editions.

Actually, ignore that last DnD part, I don't want to start something from that.


I feel like you haven't read my last 3-4 posts at all. I said multiple times that the spell he used was a transformation spell which the game put into the illusion magic school since there is no seperate transformation/shapeshifting school.
He didn't break anything, other players using that spell would also change their physical form.
Nov 11, 2012 7:49 AM
Offline
Aug 2012
412
You just don't understand how separate transformation and illusion are.

Illusion is in NO way branched, or related to transformation other than the ability to conjure a mental image of what you wish to replicate.

Nowhere in the source is transformation put into the same tree as illusion, that is purely speculation.

I am just trying to say the writing here was terrible and an ass pull to even allow the animators to suggest illusion = transformation magic

Which is bad conveyance.

There, referred back to my initial post and wrapped it up, I can't go into any more depth.
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