Reply to AdamDosly
Because MAL is pretty incompetent and lazy when it comes to updates. If it is too much work to add them, then they could just be visual thing without counting toward overall or mean score. MAL has already added things barely anybody wanted. So why not decimal points?
I doubt I would use each decimal point, but having .5 would be quite useful.
Honestly, I do not understand why are so many people against adding decimal points. If you think that they are useless and that there is no difference between 7.2 and 7.3, then do not use them. Why should that prevent other people from doing it? I do not think that adding decimal point would make overall score less useful than it already is. And I doubt that people who do not use whole scale would suddenly lower their scores and use it just because some random person told them to do it. At least with decimal point, their scores would have bit more variety.
I doubt I would use each decimal point, but having .5 would be quite useful.
Honestly, I do not understand why are so many people against adding decimal points. If you think that they are useless and that there is no difference between 7.2 and 7.3, then do not use them. Why should that prevent other people from doing it? I do not think that adding decimal point would make overall score less useful than it already is. And I doubt that people who do not use whole scale would suddenly lower their scores and use it just because some random person told them to do it. At least with decimal point, their scores would have bit more variety.
| @AdamDosly A visual thing that doesn't count toward overall score would actually be pretty good just to organize your list better like being able to give lows and highs to scores or something like that That way you could have low 7, 7 and high 7 for example |
| Not needed. 1-10 is enough. Even websites with decimal systems like RYM and Letterboxd are basically 1-10. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
Reply to joyandhappiness
@zombie_pegasus
the reason that most people don't use the full 10 ratings is because of indicators next to the last four ratings which are
4- Bad
3- Very Bad
2-Horrible
1-Apalling
not many would actually watch an anime this bad without dropping them.
perhaps mal could change these last four indicators because they vary little from each other and the last four numbers are useless because of them
zombie_pegasus said:
Most MAL users can't even use 10 ratings, eg yourself who has a mean of 8/10
Most MAL users can't even use 10 ratings, eg yourself who has a mean of 8/10
the reason that most people don't use the full 10 ratings is because of indicators next to the last four ratings which are
4- Bad
3- Very Bad
2-Horrible
1-Apalling
not many would actually watch an anime this bad without dropping them.
perhaps mal could change these last four indicators because they vary little from each other and the last four numbers are useless because of them
| @joyandhappiness MAL making it so you can change the words on the numbers and indicate what you've chosen them as on your profile would be helpful. The fact that "good" is taught as a euphemism for "average" in school doesn't help, because it means a lot of people see "good" to mean "minimally acceptable" and consider it an insult to rate anything lower, but that means not having many ratings to choose from. Some people do use the scale in a way that works for them regardless. When I gave something a 4 that doesn't mean I hated it, just that it wasn't great. @AdamDosly There's a sort of rating inflation if you let people use decimals. People already rate too high, the mean of the site is around 7, and it's only going to climb higher if people can start their scale higher while still having plenty of ratings to use. I personally think that's bad for the site because it means that ratings bunch together at the top. The difference between an 8.0 and an 8.1 would mean a massive quality difference while a 3.0 and a 4.0 are basically the same as each other because no one's going to be using that part of the scale if they don't have to. |
zombie_pegasusOct 2, 5:35 AM
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I don’t think decimal ratings are even needed, 1–10 is fine. Adding .5s would just make things unnecessarily complex. It would also mess with the stats: right now it’s simple to see how many people rated a show between 1–10, but with .5s there’d suddenly be 20 points. And if they added this feature now, it would kind of make the older ratings pointless when comparing how many people gave something a 6, 7, 8, etc. I feel like it’s better if a site sticks to one rating system and people just adapt to that, then the ratings become at least somewhat reliable. That’s my main reason for not using Anilist or Kitsu. Anilist has like 5 different scoring systems to choose from, so when you look at an anime’s rating there are multiple ways to view and discuss it. Personally, I don’t see that as a feature. But yeah, everyone has different points of view, and maybe these features are important for you. I just wrote what I think. |
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Reply to zombie_pegasus
@joyandhappiness MAL making it so you can change the words on the numbers and indicate what you've chosen them as on your profile would be helpful. The fact that "good" is taught as a euphemism for "average" in school doesn't help, because it means a lot of people see "good" to mean "minimally acceptable" and consider it an insult to rate anything lower, but that means not having many ratings to choose from.
Some people do use the scale in a way that works for them regardless. When I gave something a 4 that doesn't mean I hated it, just that it wasn't great.
@AdamDosly There's a sort of rating inflation if you let people use decimals. People already rate too high, the mean of the site is around 7, and it's only going to climb higher if people can start their scale higher while still having plenty of ratings to use. I personally think that's bad for the site because it means that ratings bunch together at the top. The difference between an 8.0 and an 8.1 would mean a massive quality difference while a 3.0 and a 4.0 are basically the same as each other because no one's going to be using that part of the scale if they don't have to.
Some people do use the scale in a way that works for them regardless. When I gave something a 4 that doesn't mean I hated it, just that it wasn't great.
@AdamDosly There's a sort of rating inflation if you let people use decimals. People already rate too high, the mean of the site is around 7, and it's only going to climb higher if people can start their scale higher while still having plenty of ratings to use. I personally think that's bad for the site because it means that ratings bunch together at the top. The difference between an 8.0 and an 8.1 would mean a massive quality difference while a 3.0 and a 4.0 are basically the same as each other because no one's going to be using that part of the scale if they don't have to.
zombie_pegasus said: There's a sort of rating inflation if you let people use decimals. It's actually the opposite. Giving people decimals and all sorts of rating systems makes them rate an anime more accurately which is actually lower in most cases This image is pretty old but my point still stands  |
| It'd make sense yes. I'd also prefer it But updates need work and i don't think MAL owners really want to make that much work |
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Reply to joyandhappiness
@KenaiPhoenix listing both a 7.6 and a 8.4 as a 8 just feels wrong
well, there could be togglable option for the integer and the decimal system so the people who want "simplicity" can still use mal
KenaiPhoenix said:
Simplicity can help too, even if it is forced.
Simplicity can help too, even if it is forced.
well, there could be togglable option for the integer and the decimal system so the people who want "simplicity" can still use mal
| joyandhappiness said: KenaiPhoenix listing both a 7.6 and a 8.4 as a 8 just feels wrong KenaiPhoenix said: Simplicity can help too, even if it is forced. well, there could be togglable option for the integer and the decimal system so the people who want "simplicity" can still use mal Maybe, but like I say, sometimes pushing the user to have to make a choice is better if the overall experience. For example, if they added the decimal, we probably will have people asking for even more decimals, having now rates of 8.2345 and 8.3246 Just and 8 is enough, if you want to dig deeper, there is an option to review the anime. MAL rating, imo, are more of simplicity and use: they even named the scores to try to have the same weight on all user scores. For some people a 5 would be named as "fair" but for other "below average". |
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| Most people don't even use the entire scale, including you. Instead of decimals, you need to start rating shows less than 7-10. |
Reply to CerberosIII
@AdamDosly A visual thing that doesn't count toward overall score would actually be pretty good just to organize your list better like being able to give lows and highs to scores or something like that
That way you could have low 7, 7 and high 7 for example
That way you could have low 7, 7 and high 7 for example
| @CerberosIII You can use Priority to add high, medium and low into your list. And you can move it next to score with custom CSS. But it will only be visible in All Anime/Manga and in Plan to Watch/Read.  |
| I just simply score them based on the score label. So no need to worry about decimals 😌 Why make it more difficult tho? |
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Reply to zombie_pegasus
@joyandhappiness MAL making it so you can change the words on the numbers and indicate what you've chosen them as on your profile would be helpful. The fact that "good" is taught as a euphemism for "average" in school doesn't help, because it means a lot of people see "good" to mean "minimally acceptable" and consider it an insult to rate anything lower, but that means not having many ratings to choose from.
Some people do use the scale in a way that works for them regardless. When I gave something a 4 that doesn't mean I hated it, just that it wasn't great.
@AdamDosly There's a sort of rating inflation if you let people use decimals. People already rate too high, the mean of the site is around 7, and it's only going to climb higher if people can start their scale higher while still having plenty of ratings to use. I personally think that's bad for the site because it means that ratings bunch together at the top. The difference between an 8.0 and an 8.1 would mean a massive quality difference while a 3.0 and a 4.0 are basically the same as each other because no one's going to be using that part of the scale if they don't have to.
Some people do use the scale in a way that works for them regardless. When I gave something a 4 that doesn't mean I hated it, just that it wasn't great.
@AdamDosly There's a sort of rating inflation if you let people use decimals. People already rate too high, the mean of the site is around 7, and it's only going to climb higher if people can start their scale higher while still having plenty of ratings to use. I personally think that's bad for the site because it means that ratings bunch together at the top. The difference between an 8.0 and an 8.1 would mean a massive quality difference while a 3.0 and a 4.0 are basically the same as each other because no one's going to be using that part of the scale if they don't have to.
| @zombie_pegasus There's a sort of rating inflation if you let people use decimals. People already rate too high, the mean of the site is around 7, and it's only going to climb higher if people can start their scale higher while still having plenty of ratings to use. Scores are already inflated. I do not think there are that many people who would only score between 9 and 10 that it would make it significantly worse. If anything, people might start giving scores like 9.5 or 9.7 instead of just 10.I personally think that's bad for the site because it means that ratings bunch together at the top. The difference between an 8.0 and an 8.1 would mean a massive quality difference while a 3.0 and a 4.0 are basically the same as each other because no one's going to be using that part of the scale if they don't have to. That is basically happening already.And as I wrote already. Decimal points can be just visual thing and not count toward overall score or mean score. |
| Who needs a decimal system when 10-point is already too much? |
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| Thread moved to the correct board. |
| Back when I had only 500 anime in my list I also felt like having some granularity in my ratings was a good thing to have. In those days, the main database I use offered ratings between 1% and 100%. But eventually it got kinda stupid, where I had to put like 50 different anime on 83% when I didn't feel exactly the same about all those 50 anime. Ultimately I just gave up on granularity. It saved my sanity to just not worry that deeply about it. My opinion on titles isn't static anyway. When I watched Gake no Ue no Ponyo for the first time back in 2012 I gave it a 3/10. Rewatched it earlier this year and now it's a 9/10. Same thing happened with Tenshi no Tamago. I think both of them heavily benefit from watching them on a huge screen with a decent sound system. As far as rating systems go, I think anikore has the best approach. It doesn't allow you to rate a title directly. You have to rate various aspects (story, voice acting, characters, music, animation) and then a score is created based on that:  |
| @Vipadus Vipadus said: Then I guess you might get the gist of what I'm trying to tell. If you have seen enough Anime, you surely realize that the majority of Anime between 7 and 8 range from mid to trashy, contradicting to the score descriptor. For a simple reason, they totally ignore the existence of any number below 6. That's the moment you acknowledge the decimal system is rather unnecessary. If your family only consists of 4 people, do you need to buy like 20 wardrobes?To be fair, not a ton (if you're talking about the actual average MAL scores). Anime in that range are hit or miss for me. Generally anime 8-8.2 get better and most anime above that are actually good, at least the way I see it. |
 |
Vipadus said: Sure, you can argue that most people don't need that level of granularity, but it would still be nice to have that option for people with more subtle tastes. Officially, MAL won't ever implement it. They recommend users who feel the need for it to use Tags in their list, tho. |
 "Genius lives only one story above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... and hungry." – Alexioos95. |
Vipadus said: an anime is never the average of all of that, the story is by far the most important aspect. I used to agree with that, but if you break the rating down across different aspects it becomes more useful for other people. Whether you like or don't like a story is something I couldn't care less about. Voice acting and animation on the other hand are less dependent on taste, so with that method anime that are at least crafted well should have a higher rating. In the end, it's probably still all meaningless numbers, but I personally find the top list of anikore a lot less polarizing than all other top lists I have seen. (The numbers you see on anikore after the rating aren't votes, they are the amount of reviews a title has. The number below the rating is for how many people put it on their shelf. On that site if you want to watch something, you put it on your shelf and then when you are done, you remove it. Unless you like it a lot, then the shelf acts as a kind of favorite list, since there is limited shelf space.) |
| I'm pretty surprised at the number of people wanting this. I mean, it makes no real difference to my life if it was implimented and sure more choice is always better. But I can't, even as a lover of statistics, see a benefit in having a 20-point rating system over a 1-10 rating system we currently have. Would the average user really be able to explain what would differ between a 6.5 and a 6 rating? Or a 1 and a 1.5 rating? They're still both demonstrating you believe the anime to be of a poor quality - that extra 0.5 isn't adding anything. I find a lot of reviewers who use anything other than a 1-10 (or hell I think a 5 star rating system is fine) are giving shows numbers arbitrarily. It's okay to rate 2 shows the same number while also thinking 1 show is better than the other. I look at the shows I adore and have given a 10/10 and I can say there are definitely some I prefer over others despite all being a 10/10. Liking one more than the other doesn't disqualify the other from also being a 10/10. Should we be able to give 11/10s then? What about 12s. Where are we stopping. Most people on this site don't even use the 1-10 scale correctly so I don't think adding half ratings is going to make the scores on shows more "accurate". |
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| @Vipadus Vipadus said: Any update better be weighted toward the majority, that's the point. Additionally, there exists another group who prefers the 5-star rating system, or a group who favors the 100-point scale. Suppose this site chooses to adopt your decimal system, there will be other people voicing complaints, asking for their preferences as well. Furthermore, implementing such a drastic change like a scoring system will put a heavy burden on the dev team, which I did not see any significant benefit for them to do so. Sure, you can argue that most people don't need that level of granularity, but it would still be nice to have that option for people with more subtle tastes. Even I don't make use of numbers below 6 that much but that's because I like most of what I watch. I could stand to use "6" a little more often perhaps, but I rarely outright dislike a show, so decimal scoring would be very useful to people like me so we can still have more differentiation than a mere 7 or 8 (which is what I rank most of my anime). |
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Vipadus said: Yeah I heard about that as well, also the fact that starting threads about it is against the rules, so I don't even know why this thread is still up lol. I mean, that's the Suggestions board. It's pretty much abandonned by mods/admins, and more answered by users. Vipadus said: this doesn't really make any sense because if someone has a more nuanced opinion on a show that they're not allowed to express in a way that would alter the average score, it just reduces the accuracy of the overall score. .5 may not seem like much but over a lot of scores it would add up. But that's a problem impossible to resolve; there'll always be someone who wants to have an even more nuanced opinion that "can't be expressed", no matter how many decimals you add. MAL already have put words next to the score to indicate what the number should represent, and it's more than enough, really. And yeah, MAL's users barely use the lower half of the scale, anyway. OP himself has merely 11% of all his entries in the lower half, with 6% in 5s, 4% in 4s, and 1% in 1s. |
"Genius lives only one story above madness." – Arthur Schopenhauer. "Stupidity is a talent for misconception." – Edgar Allan Poe. "I'm tired... and hungry." – Alexioos95. |
Vipadus said: but then it's a lot easier to end up with newer, technically "well-executed" anime like Solo Leveling Not the best example, as Solo Leveling is cheaply made and has terrible production values. All it has going for it is the story, really. On the other hand, the worst part about Ashita no Joe was it's story arc from a cool character that developed into a boring character conforming to society. As you can see, no matter how you slice it, ratings are meaningless. There's also really not much use in rating animation when most people can't even tell the difference between good and cheap animation. It's best to ignore the rating or maybe get a browser addon to block the rating altogether. |
Vipadus said: If you can say you like some 10/10s better than other 10/10s, can you really say that they're all 10s (without rounding)? At least purely based on personal preference -- if you factor in objective quality heavily or your preferences are highly based on that already, then I could understand it more, but personally I try not to factor in semi-objective assessments too much because the ratings become less meaningful and based in personal taste To answer the first part: yes of course you can and of course they are. The more interesting discussion is probably this part of your message I've quoted as a whole. I think perhaps this is the crux of understanding how you feel about ratings and the system MAL uses. You seem to use an objective measuring system when it comes to your ratings which is something I actually agree with, the base of how you rate a show should always be using the "measurables" (i.e. story, art, music, etc.) but even these are dripping with subjectivity. That’s why I think those measurables should be judged in the context of your own experience and not based on some imagined "perfect 10" that might exist out there somewhere. I might watch a show and think the animation used is the greatest piece of animation and art in the medium. It could be gorgeous. Of course I should be giving it a 10/10 for art. I feel like you might not do that though. I think you might go "sure this animation is the best I have ever seen but it doesn't mean it's the best animation out there so I'll give it a 9.5". You're constantly chasing for that mythical 10/10 rather than giving the best stuff you've seen the credit they deserve in your own mind. I don't want to sound mean I really really want to stress that and at the end of the day we're typing on a silly forum about arbitrary numbers we assign to our silly animated shows, but... Do you enjoy rating the media you consume? When something amazes you about an anime, do you ever feel like you have to pull back and find flaws, just to justify not giving it a 10? At the end of the day, we’re all just trying to communicate what these shows meant to us, while building our own mini-databases of the type of shows we like so we can refer back to them. So if something like a rating system is getting in the way of expressing your excitement, wonder, or emotional connection, then maybe it’s worth rethinking how you’re approaching the system, not the anime itself. To round off; I honestly think you've found a 10/10 show... You just might be holding yourself back from fully admitting it, because of the way you're approaching what a 10 should mean. |
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Vipadus said: By not having high production values:how is Solo Leveling "cheaply made"? |
| LOL I quit MAL maaaaaaaany years ago for this reason, the last few years I'm using AL there I can rate what I watch not just using decimals 0.5 etc, but the system I'm currently using is a 1-100 rating system, that's the best one imo, only visit MAL to check the forum when I feel like it & that's it, so all those years later the same issue that made me quit is still present & never have been solved, that's seriously tragic... |
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