| I mean Frieren is literally my favorite anime of all time - see also my username and profile picture - but obviously there are legitimate and valid reasons one can have for not liking the show. Some of these are different takeaways from the same objective quality - for example, the plot *is* very meandering and aimless, and the pace *is* slow. To me, and I assume to a lot of others who like this show, that’s not a criticism, as that’s the exact thing that allows those character moments big and small that add so much weight to the big story payoffs when they do happen. But if you can’t reconcile yourself with a story that is moving slowly and seemingly going nowhere, I can see why you wouldn’t like the show as much. Then there are other more subjective reasons - if you don’t like the characters or find the plot boring, then you’re probably not too enthused by the show. This is purely subjective, and the people who dislike the show for these reasons have an experience which is very nearly wholly different from a lot of the people who like the show. Then there’s just what you prefer - do you like more action or battle focused anime? Frieren isn’t for you. Do you not like fantasy? Frieren isn’t for you. I’m sure everyone who dislikes the show has a valid reason for doing so. A person’s experience with media isn’t less valid than ours just because they had a different takeaway from it. Of course, a lot of people get very obnoxious about their dislike - I’m not going to name those people, but there are a couple of people who are infamous in this community. The issue there is how they choose to express their dislike. If a lot of the people who dislike the show weren’t being so antagonistic with how they express their desire, I feel like their opinions would be accepted a lot more easily. |
FREIEN beyond JOURNEYS end |
BLUEBERYyummyDec 9, 2024 7:23 PM
| Personally I love Frieren. From the characters and story to the music and animation, I was truly impressed. However I have no issue with people that disagree with me and not to be rude but I never bother reading reviews on this site. Not that there isn’t any value in it, I just would rather go into an anime with as little information as possible and decide for myself. That being said, watching Frieren reminded me of how precious time is and how to better appreciate the people in my life that I love. |
 |
| Frieren is a special kind of anime, which isn't for everyone. It's chill most of the time, which some people can't handle. That's why I can understand why not all people like it. Animation- and soundtrack-wise, it's at the very top in my opinion, but there are also people who don't like it and automatically say it's bad. You simply can't justify everyone. Frieren is in my Top3 anime of all time and I'm going to rewatch it when the second season is going to be released. |
| The ones who dislike Frieren do it because they think it's a boring anime, they don't like how chill it is. and that dislike turns into hate because Frieren is way too popular, especially when currently it's number one anime in MAL. Popular anime tends to have many haters after all. |
 (っ◔◡◔)っ 𝓘 𝔀𝓲𝓼𝓱 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓪𝓵𝓵 𝓱𝓪𝓿𝓮 𝓪 𝔀𝓸𝓷𝓭𝓮𝓻𝓯𝓾𝓵 𝓭𝓪𝔂 ♥ |
| Flat characters and unmemorable story |
Reply to rodmanii
@ejleon that sounds very stupid, "hey, just ignore everything poorly justified, not explained, contradictory or nonsensical and the show becomes good"
| @rodmanii Your first mistake is believing anime will make sense, your second mistake is pointing it out. There are more important things in life, touch grass. |
Note: I don’t lazily watch 3-5 episodes, biasedly compare to other anime, or unfairly judge by surface level similarities. With every anime I start, I watch the entire series, both Japanese Sub & English Dub, then judge each anime based on what they present, to give an honest and fair rating.  |
| Forgot to mention that haters probably can't suspend their disbelief and want truckloads of info dumps to explain everything that's happening. |
DesuMaiden said: Nobody resembles me physically because I don't even physically exist. |
Reply to rodmanii
@ejleon again, very stupid, some people like an history making sense and some authors like making an history that makes sense, but yeah, you probably should stick to children anime so you can continue to turn your brain off.
| @rodmanii I’m not the one looking for a “realistic / historical” story, in the millions of fictional stories in anime. You want realistic and historical, read a history book. Unlike you, I know the difference because I use my brain to research Social Science & Science, as well as when I watch anime. |
| Note: I don’t lazily watch 3-5 episodes, biasedly compare to other anime, or unfairly judge by surface level similarities. With every anime I start, I watch the entire series, both Japanese Sub & English Dub, then judge each anime based on what they present, to give an honest and fair rating. |
| dude. there are media that are OBJECTIVELY good, believe it or not. But there will always be a group of people ranting about it just to make themselves feel better. |
"Are you the strongest because you're Satoru Gojo? Or are you Satoru Gojo because you're the strongest?"~ Suguru Geto  |
rodmanii said: @ejleon a story doesnt need to be realistic in order to make sense, as the commet you were replying to pointed out frieren is very vague non specific logic lacking in things anyone may question out of common sense The comment was a person overthinking and over analyzing anime that was not trying to be too deep or meaningful, neither was it trying to be perfectly logical and sensical. Their entire first paragraph is filled with questions that do not matter and are just wonderings that are only important to them personally. I don’t see that it will progress the story at all. That’s the problem, you people who have to point out the slightest mistake or something you personally want to know. Hence my reaction, relax, calm down, breathe, don’t think so hard, touch grass, it is just not that important in the scheme of things. Hey, I will also point out things I don’t like or get too, but I also know I can’t expect too much from anime, so I don’t over think it, I just go with the flow. Even live action Shows & Movies are illogical and nonsensical many times, but they can still be fun to watch. It is a waste of time, energy, emotional and metal activity to act like you two. |
ejleonDec 11, 2024 6:37 PM
| Note: I don’t lazily watch 3-5 episodes, biasedly compare to other anime, or unfairly judge by surface level similarities. With every anime I start, I watch the entire series, both Japanese Sub & English Dub, then judge each anime based on what they present, to give an honest and fair rating. |
Reply to rodmanii
@ejleon pointing out that humans knowing so little about an enemy they have been fighting so long isnt overthinking, is something very basic.
again, maybe not to you, but some people expect a story to make some sense, they arent retards and dont want to be treated as such, so no, flashy colors arent enough to some people.
those arent little mistaskes but some major oversights that have no explanation, so the demon lord was defeated yet demons still exists? the hero party simply decided to stop giving a shit? frieren included? everyone included.
that is very mediocre of you, or what? are you telling me anime cant produce quality storytelling with histories that explain their world and detail and leave no room for plotholes?
again, very mediocre of you, to think that the expectation of having the author explain why some major aspects of their world are the way they are is some great, time consuming, difficult process, how ludicrous.
Their entire first paragraph is filled with questions that do not matter and are just wonderings that are only important to them personally
again, maybe not to you, but some people expect a story to make some sense, they arent retards and dont want to be treated as such, so no, flashy colors arent enough to some people.
That’s the problem, you people who have to point out the slightest mistake or something you personally want to know.
those arent little mistaskes but some major oversights that have no explanation, so the demon lord was defeated yet demons still exists? the hero party simply decided to stop giving a shit? frieren included? everyone included.
but I also know I can’t expect too much from anime,
that is very mediocre of you, or what? are you telling me anime cant produce quality storytelling with histories that explain their world and detail and leave no room for plotholes?
It is a waste of time, energy, emotional and metal activity to act like you tw
again, very mediocre of you, to think that the expectation of having the author explain why some major aspects of their world are the way they are is some great, time consuming, difficult process, how ludicrous.
| @rodmanii • This happens in fiction and reality, sometimes very little is actually known about an enemy, but the later episodes reveals that they did learn more about the demons and their magic, which helped them defeat them. • I never said “be satisfied with fancy animation and action scenes”, in fact, I have called out anime for being just action / effects but no substance, so this is a false narrative that you made up to mock me and disregard my comments, but this just makes you look bad and desperate to insult a person that disagrees with you. • I never said “be satisfied with illogical nonsense in the story”, I clearly said that those questions are irrelevant to the story. For example … Fern and Stark, they barely have any goals for their journey other than to stick with Frieren like their masters told them. What do these two want to do with their life? - Their goal is explained by their masters, to follow Frieren on her journey, learning from her and helping her learn too, so until they accomplish this goal of getting to the location, they will not be planning anything else for the future, this much is obvious. - Plus, Fern did have a goal she wanted to accomplish and she did accomplish this goal at the end, so this is false. • If you’d payed attention and followed the story, then you’d know that they had always battled and fought with demons in their history, they are another race in this world, but it was the Demon Lord that became the real issue and problem, because the balance would be thrown off in favor of the demons, hence the reason for their journey to stop them and other powerful demons. And it is explained that after the defeat of the demon lord, within 50 or so years, the other races progressed in learning magic and being able to defeat the demons, hence shifting the balance in the favor of the other races. • No, it is from my experience of watching and completing 581 anime. I realized that anime, in general, does not take themselves too seriously, when it comes to a fictional story. They don’t explain every detail (often resulting in “plot holes”), they are unrelatable, unrealistic, unhistorical (unless based on actual historical events), illogical / nonsensical (hence the phrase “anime logic”), they’re over the top, wacky, silly, childish, etc etc etc, but they can be enjoyed if you realize that they are not trying to be the best story ever told in history, they are trying to entertain a particular audience, hence the names of groups for different target audiences. Frieren has a category of “ Shonen/Shounen”. - Meaning: The literal meaning of Shōnen is a boy. This type of anime is generally targeted toward teen boys (12-18 years old) but even teen girls like to watch them. - The fact that you expect anime written specifically for “teen boys/girls” to be perfectly written to include every aspect / detail / personal wonderings that you believe should be in the anime, it is not only illogical, but your demand is totally unreasonable, and your criticism is extremely unfair and judgmental. • Go ahead and name 5 anime that you believe check all the boxes that you mentioned, then I will watch them as a comparison to Freiren. • You have it backwards, you want an author to explain things that you personally want to know, but these have nothing to do with the actual story / characters the author is telling, so how is the author’s to know your personal interests? It is an impossible demand. |
ejleonDec 12, 2024 1:38 AM
| Note: I don’t lazily watch 3-5 episodes, biasedly compare to other anime, or unfairly judge by surface level similarities. With every anime I start, I watch the entire series, both Japanese Sub & English Dub, then judge each anime based on what they present, to give an honest and fair rating. |
Reply to rodmanii
@ejleon
oh yeah? their goal is to do the bidding of some elf that wanders around burning their lifespan since she is not in hurry to do anything and they just accept it, ok
so demons have always been an existencial threat yet the other races only act when this existencial threat became particularly bad? most of the time they just live under the constant threat of attack?, ok, wonderful
so? there are stories that do bother explaining the elements they themselves present to the viewer, you prefering anime that doesnt do such thing is not a reason for others to simply accept mediocre storytelling
i dont expect them to be perfect but to make some sense
so demons have nothing to do with frieren? and magic has nothing to do with her either?
Their goal is explained by their masters, to follow Frieren on her journey, learning from her and helping her learn too, so until they accomplish this goal of getting to the location, they will not be planning anything else for the future, this much is obvious.
oh yeah? their goal is to do the bidding of some elf that wanders around burning their lifespan since she is not in hurry to do anything and they just accept it, ok
If you’d payed attention and followed the story, then you’d know that they had always battled and fought with demons in their histor
so demons have always been an existencial threat yet the other races only act when this existencial threat became particularly bad? most of the time they just live under the constant threat of attack?, ok, wonderful
No, it is from my experience of watching and completing 581 anime. I realized that anime, in general, does not take themselves too seriously
so? there are stories that do bother explaining the elements they themselves present to the viewer, you prefering anime that doesnt do such thing is not a reason for others to simply accept mediocre storytelling
to be perfectly written to include every aspect
i dont expect them to be perfect but to make some sense
but these have nothing to do with the actual story
so demons have nothing to do with frieren? and magic has nothing to do with her either?
| @rodmanii • You might not understand (I’m not surprised), but these apprentices followed their leaders advice seriously, historically, that is pretty much accurate, and this is a fictional story, so there you go for realism. • No, I said that they always were fighting each other, as races due, but when the “Demon Lord” rose, a brave group of souls, acted by themselves to save the other races, allowing them to get an advantage in their history in that world, so the demons did not win. • No, I clearly said “Present 5 anime that follow and check all your boxes”, but you obviously can’t do that. • They do make “some sense”, that’s my entire point. • Straw-man arguments won’t get you anywhere, stick to actually discussing the topic at hand. |
| Note: I don’t lazily watch 3-5 episodes, biasedly compare to other anime, or unfairly judge by surface level similarities. With every anime I start, I watch the entire series, both Japanese Sub & English Dub, then judge each anime based on what they present, to give an honest and fair rating. |
| @ejleon Frieren probably fell for me into some uncanny middle ground between goofy and serious. It has a lot of qualities that I would normally enjoy, like the sentimental characters that are full of valuable life lessons and epic lore that slowly gets revealed piece by piece, but since it doesn't try to be an epic story a lot of its promises feel half baked. There are a some exceptions that I really enjoyed, like the story around Heiter and later Voll (the dwarf from ep 16), but I think that makes the rest only feel more out of place. I don't have to force myself to like it, so my focus was more to understand why it didn't work for me. My initial comment wasn't necessarily meant as a critique to why it's so popular but more an explanation from someone who didn't enjoy it as much. ejleon said: Their entire first paragraph is filled with questions that do not matter and are just wonderings that are only important to them personally. I don’t see that it will progress the story at all. That’s the problem, you people who have to point out the slightest mistake or something you personally want to know. I have to agree that just listing a bunch of questions wasn't the best way to get my point across. Stories can't and shouldn't explain every possible detail, but I do enjoy trying to read between the lines of a story and understand who the characters are, especially when the story constantly leaves me with clues about important events to think about. Frieren's sentimental themes in particular make me want to understand the characters' situations and how they feel. In moments when a story takes itself seriously it can reflect human nature in situations that we will never experience in our own lives through the eyes of the author, but the more a story relies on being 'fiction' the harder it is to ask meaningful questions. It's difficult to take Frieren's theme about what it is like to live for hundreds/thousands of years seriously without asking questions and understanding the characters. I know very well that I'm just speaking for myself here, but I found the lack of seriousness with this theme kind of offensive. There are of course many smaller instances where the storytelling didn't feel very rewarding to me that I didn't mention. The moment that started breaking the hype for me was probably the scene in episode 2, where Frieren and Fern look for some flower for half a year to plant it around Himmel's statue only to find it on top of some tower because rats carried the seeds there even though they couldn't find it anywhere in the region. ejleon said: Fern and Stark, they barely have any goals for their journey other than to stick with Frieren like their masters told them. What do these two want to do with their life? - Their goal is explained by their masters, to follow Frieren on her journey, learning from her and helping her learn too, so until they accomplish this goal of getting to the location, they will not be planning anything else for the future, this much is obvious. - Plus, Fern did have a goal she wanted to accomplish and she did accomplish this goal at the end, so this is false. Sure, Fern and Stark are young apprentices that gather experience for their own potential future. They do as they're told, rarely learn anything useful, don't have strong interests, and since the story is primarily about Frieren they don't get to form a lot of connections outside the main group. Fern's motivation is a bit more distinguished, she's very grateful to Heiter and wants to become a strong mage for his sake (which kind of leaves open how she feels about magic herself), she also has a very close bond to Frieren and deeply cares about her. What does make her interesting to me is how much she potentially means to Frieren, who has very few social connections herself, but there are only a few scenes in the anime where this is really explored. I don't want to say that stories aren't allowed to have characters like that or that it's unrealistic, but I don't find them very engaging. ejleon said: • If you’d payed attention and followed the story, then you’d know that they had always battled and fought with demons in their history, they are another race in this world, but it was the Demon Lord that became the real issue and problem, because the balance would be thrown off in favor of the demons, hence the reason for their journey to stop them and other powerful demons. And it is explained that after the defeat of the demon lord, within 50 or so years, the other races progressed in learning magic and being able to defeat the demons, hence shifting the balance in the favor of the other races. I probably need to check the story about the demons again at some point, but it's always been very vague what kind of threat the demon king really posed. The story basically tells us that killing the demon king saved humanity. It's clearly a reference to the generic fantasy trope and that's fine, but the fact that (for all we know) humanity has been doing fine for all those 1000 years since Frieren started her training to kill the demon king makes it hard to follow. (edit 12/13/2024: Defeating the demon king seems not necessarily about saving humanity, but more about ending the constant war. Although given the demon's power hierarchy there shouldn't be anything to stop the next strongest demon to just pick up the mantle. From what we see, the demons haven't become any less bloodthirsty without the demon king. What is so fundamentally special about the demon king in particular? If the demon king is the creator of all demons that kind of goes against what Frieren/Flamme said about them that they evolved from other monsters that lure people in with their voices) I'm getting told all this backstory that emphasizes just how important this demon conflict was to Frieren and the old characters, to the development of magic and pretty much all of the world's history, but the story doesn't give me the critical context about who the demon king was or how humanity was holding up. If it isn't that deep I wish the story would be a bit clearer about it instead of constantly hinting at some possible mind blowing revelation about how special the demon king or Himmel were. |
VaturnaDec 13, 2024 4:39 AM
Reply to rodmanii
@ejleon
its perfectly logical for them to devote their lifes to the whims of an elf they barely know
yeah, and tha very group of heroes apparently just got bored and decided to no longer fights demons because reaons, i mean, why solve the conflict in a more definitive manner when you can just let your enemies be?
You might not understand (I’m not surprised), but these apprentices followed their leaders advice seriously, historically, that is pretty much accurate, and this is a fictional story, so there you go for realism.
its perfectly logical for them to devote their lifes to the whims of an elf they barely know
• No, I said that they always were fighting each other, as races due, but when the “Demon Lord” rose, a brave group of souls, acted by themselves to save the other races, allowing them to get an advantage in their history in that world, so the demons did not win.
yeah, and tha very group of heroes apparently just got bored and decided to no longer fights demons because reaons, i mean, why solve the conflict in a more definitive manner when you can just let your enemies be?
• No, I clearly said “Present 5 anime that follow and check all your boxes”, but you obviously can’t do that.
, be more specific, what do you think are my "boxes"?| @rodmanii • Not what I explained, plus their leaders / masters knew her, they trusted her, the apprentices trusted their masters • No, I explained they didn’t go to fight “demons”, they went to fight the Demon Lored, because their presence caused an in-balance • Why can’t you just present 5 anime that does everything you wanted Frieren to do? |
| Note: I don’t lazily watch 3-5 episodes, biasedly compare to other anime, or unfairly judge by surface level similarities. With every anime I start, I watch the entire series, both Japanese Sub & English Dub, then judge each anime based on what they present, to give an honest and fair rating. |
| Frieren isn't a bad show, it's just overrated in the way the fans claiming that it's a deep show. Well, it isn't. I mean i had some conversations with them back when it came out and nobody even tried to justify the so-called "depth". You see, the best thing about Frieren is that it's a high quality show with decent visuals and musical composition consistently throughout but again, so do TONS of other anime series out there like KnY. Then we have the worst things about it - boring characters, mostly unengaging dialogues and repetitive gags. Now you can say "but most people don't mind these things" which is subjectivity and that's completely fine. However, if we're talking about creating 3 dimensional characters with distinct habits and personalities of their own, personal conflicts, developments etc, presented in screenwriting that makes you think or at least draws you in, doesn't reuse the same jokes and all, this show is a lot closer to "meh" than "wow". |
More topics from this board
» Was there ever a good response to "The Moral Dilemma That Broke Frieren"?thewiru - Dec 31, 2024 |
27 |
by Merve2Love
»»
3 hours ago |
|
Poll: » Sousou no Frieren Episode 28 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )anime-prime - Mar 22, 2024 |
948 |
by Kap92
»»
5 hours ago |
|
Poll: » Sousou no Frieren Episode 27 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )ShadowkillZ - Mar 15, 2024 |
391 |
by Kap92
»»
5 hours ago |
|
Poll: » Sousou no Frieren Episode 26 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Mar 8, 2024 |
523 |
by Kap92
»»
5 hours ago |
|
Poll: » Sousou no Frieren Episode 25 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Mar 1, 2024 |
265 |
by Kap92
»»
5 hours ago |