Reply to JoeChip
JoeChip said: I have nothing for you edgy asian weirdo man. That is a pretty rich statement coming from a guy who has a bunch of edgy Anime as their favorites on their profile page. lol Just because I happen to think "Urotsukidouji" is a classic and I am not the only one who does either even on this specific thread, you resort to calling me a weirdo. Which is fine, not like that hurts my feelings or anything. I get you might not like "Urotsukidouji" specifically due to the type of content it has in it, but anyone who has any real deep knowledge about in-depth analyses of film quality and audio will likely recognize that something even as extremely edgy as "Urotsukidouji" is still something to be acknowledged when it comes to this medium. Specifically because it was the 1st of it's kind, even if some might think it's in extremely bad taste.   It should be noted the "Urotsukidouji Perfect collection" is the only Official Physical release with the least amount of censorship and it's completely Uncut. Where it's highly unlikely even on Torrent sites or Illegal platforms that offer any "Urotsukidouji" content, that it's specifically from the "Urotsukidouji Perfect collection". Where if it is, it's likely to be an extremely horrendous viewing experience due to this specific release only at most being offered on the 1st gen DVD formats that never converts well digitally. Where even a well taken care of VHS tapes of this Anime would likely look better ripped than either the Laserdisc version or DVD version and it would still look and sound like crap. lol |
ColourWheelOct 9, 2024 4:02 AM
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Reply to JoeChip
@inim
I have already watched the movie version which is why I said that. The story was incomplete as far as I remember.
I have already watched the movie version which is why I said that. The story was incomplete as far as I remember.
| @JoeChip The story can never be complete, that actually is the genius twist. I've watched all movies, and tbh only the first is worth it. Later they just add more of the same. Albeit the opening scene of the 2nd one is still a masterpiece of B-movie. |
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| I liked the Macross TV anime but the movie version Macross: Do You Remember Love? is just chef's kiss. |
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| hokuto no ken was way more than just exploding heads |
  "When the time is yours, the future is waiting, The person you become, and the people you're creating." |
| Honestly, I felt that way about Neon Genesis Evangelion and its movie and Rebuild films. |
| Lupin, 70's Lupin was a lot of fun to watch. |
| Candy, Candy. It is my favorite series!! |
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| Ace wo Nerae, with its relatively low average score and the fact that it's quite old, I expected something cliché filled and potentially mind numbing, but found what's now one of my favorite sports anime ever |
"Most anime makers are basically autistic" - Hideaki Anno |
| Probably https://myanimelist.net/anime/2211/Jumping Since I've never seen anything like it before and didn't know what to expect going into it |
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Reply to Lentus1
I'm not the biggest supporter of classic anime bcuz what is in the past is in the past. I find it baffling that some "people" genuinely think the old animation techniques before digital animation is more valid, they really think they know better than the anime industry.
| @LenRea Every industry out there is trying to cut costs and speed up production processes, not make a better product for the user. Do you think we stack ten thousands chickens in farms, or shower our crops with biocides because it makes the food in your plate better? |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
Reply to Deathko
@LenRea Every industry out there is trying to cut costs and speed up production processes, not make a better product for the user. Do you think we stack ten thousands chickens in farms, or shower our crops with biocides because it makes the food in your plate better?
| @Deathko digital animation is better than cel animation. That is all I'm saying. Animation has naturally evolved from cel to digital for more freedom and capabilities and in general digital gives better image. Industry hacks cutting costs and outsourcing simply can not be avoided and has never been fully avoided to begin with. |
 Have yet to see Digital Animation ever do anything like the gif image above... That is all I'm saying. Compared to what they use to be able to do with Cel Animation, Modern Animation is completely soulless in comparison. If Madhouse today was given a blank check budget and no time limit to produce a new Modern Anime with lots of action and they had the choice of either going full Digital Animation or full Cel Animation, I would be like "Fuck Digital! Go full on freaky 80s and 90s style Cel Animation!". I wouldn't even care if it was only released on Laserdiscs either. It would only mean it would look and sound like crap to those who would Illegally try to pirate some ripped copy. lol |
ColourWheelOct 9, 2024 10:20 AM
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Reply to ColourWheel
Have yet to see Digital Animation ever do anything like the gif image above...
That is all I'm saying.
Compared to what they use to be able to do with Cel Animation, Modern Animation is completely soulless in comparison.
If Madhouse today was given a blank check budget and no time limit to produce a new Modern Anime with lots of action and they had the choice of either going full Digital Animation or full Cel Animation, I would be like "Fuck Digital! Go full on freaky 80s and 90s style Cel Animation!".
I wouldn't even care if it was only released on Laserdiscs either. It would only mean it would look and sound like crap to those who would Illegally try to pirate some ripped copy. lol
I agree that digital animation can sometimes feel flat when compared to cel, however it is by no means soulless. Many people don't know that cel are photographed over a background which imparts a rich textural quality(film grain). Digital animation is smooth and is free from grain, which can give people this sense of flatness. After saying all that, i still prefer digital animation and here’s why, Unparalleled Flexibility. Digital cannot replicate cel animation, but it can certainly capture the "feel". Digital animation is like a Swiss knife, it can create scenes and effects that cel animation could never hope to top. |
 Bro, only weirdos choose to piss in the urinal next to you when there are plenty of open urinals along the wall. Fuck you |
Reply to Xypheron
I agree that digital animation can sometimes feel flat when compared to cel, however it is by no means soulless. Many people don't know that cel are photographed over a background which imparts a rich textural quality(film grain). Digital animation is smooth and is free from grain, which can give people this sense of flatness. After saying all that, i still prefer digital animation and here’s why, Unparalleled Flexibility. Digital cannot replicate cel animation, but it can certainly capture the "feel". Digital animation is like a Swiss knife, it can create scenes and effects that cel animation could never hope to top.
Xypheron said: I agree that digital animation can sometimes feel flat when compared to cel, however it is by no means soulless. Many people don't know that cel are photographed over a background which imparts a rich textural quality(film grain). Digital animation is smooth and is free from grain, which can give people this sense of flatness. After saying all that, i still prefer digital animation and here’s why, Unparalleled Flexibility. Digital cannot replicate cel animation, but it can certainly capture the "feel". Digital animation is like a Swiss knife, it can create scenes and effects that cel animation could never hope to top. That is simply just your own opinion and I respect that but as someone who has grown up actually watching and experiencing a lot of Cel Anime air on the big screen as it became actually available to Western audience for the 1st time to actually watching a lot of Cel Anime air on actual TV in the early 90s and even some in the late 80s, I would just disagree with your opinion. I have had my share of consuming Digital Anime as well and even going back and watching old Laserdisc copies of Anime from the 80s and 90s as recent as a few weeks ago, I can already tell you I favor Cel Anime way more than digital. I also used my words very carefully this time and said "in comparison to". Which implies that Digital Animation is more so soulless than Cel animation in my opinion just based on my own experiences. I am not like most modern Users in the West who rely on consuming retro Anime through the use of digital ripped Illegal copies or through the use of Illegal Piracy. Where that's just as pointless as trying to rip something to a digital format that was never meant to be digitally converted in the 1st place. Digital animation is more like someone with just moderate skills in animation using a tool like a swiss knife to create something they likely couldn't remotely do with out the use of that handicap. This is not to say that I don't enjoy modern anime. Modern Anime is great and still entertaining, but I highly favor Cel Anime much more than anything that is produced with modern methods. I just have a greater appreciation for Anime produced before the turn of the century which would be hard for most Modern consumers to understand who never grew up actually watching it as it was being released in the West. |
ColourWheelOct 9, 2024 12:57 PM
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Reply to ColourWheel
Xypheron said:
I agree that digital animation can sometimes feel flat when compared to cel, however it is by no means soulless. Many people don't know that cel are photographed over a background which imparts a rich textural quality(film grain). Digital animation is smooth and is free from grain, which can give people this sense of flatness. After saying all that, i still prefer digital animation and here’s why, Unparalleled Flexibility. Digital cannot replicate cel animation, but it can certainly capture the "feel". Digital animation is like a Swiss knife, it can create scenes and effects that cel animation could never hope to top.
I agree that digital animation can sometimes feel flat when compared to cel, however it is by no means soulless. Many people don't know that cel are photographed over a background which imparts a rich textural quality(film grain). Digital animation is smooth and is free from grain, which can give people this sense of flatness. After saying all that, i still prefer digital animation and here’s why, Unparalleled Flexibility. Digital cannot replicate cel animation, but it can certainly capture the "feel". Digital animation is like a Swiss knife, it can create scenes and effects that cel animation could never hope to top.
That is simply just your own opinion and I respect that but as someone who has grown up actually watching and experiencing a lot of Cel Anime air on the big screen as it became actually available to Western audience for the 1st time to actually watching a lot of Cel Anime air on actual TV in the early 90s and even some in the late 80s, I would just disagree with your opinion. I have had my share of consuming Digital Anime as well and even going back and watching old Laserdisc copies of Anime from the 80s and 90s as recent as a few weeks ago, I can already tell you I favor Cel Anime way more than digital.
I also used my words very carefully this time and said "in comparison to". Which implies that Digital Animation is more so soulless than Cel animation in my opinion just based on my own experiences. I am not like most modern Users in the West who rely on consuming retro Anime through the use of digital ripped Illegal copies or through the use of Illegal Piracy. Where that's just as pointless as trying to rip something to a digital format that was never meant to be digitally converted in the 1st place.
Digital animation is more like someone with just moderate skills in animation using a tool like a swiss knife to create something they likely couldn't remotely do with out the use of that handicap.
This is not to say that I don't enjoy modern anime. Modern Anime is great and still entertaining, but I highly favor Cel Anime much more than anything that is produced with modern methods. I just have a greater appreciation for Anime produced before the turn of the century which would be hard for most Modern consumers to understand who never grew up actually watching it as it was being released in the West.
I mean there really not much to disagree about, since it ultimately comes down to subjectivity. But i still like to discuss a phrase you said. ColourWheel said: Digital animation is more like someone with just moderate skills in animation using a tool like a swiss knife to create something they likely couldn't remotely do with out the use of that handicap. I really don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you suggesting that digital animation allows animators with only basic skills to produce impressive work by leveraging the capabilities of digital tools. |
| Bro, only weirdos choose to piss in the urinal next to you when there are plenty of open urinals along the wall. Fuck you |
Reply to CosmicDebris-San
@ColourWheel
You do realize that actual animators draw on paper these days just like before, right? Animators never touched cels, and they aren't the ones scanning and painting the drawings in new digital anime. These are different roles in the production pipeline. Even if they use a tablet (which is still a minority of animators), it doesn't take less skill to use one, at best it's just a bit less laborious since you can erase bad lines more easily.
ColourWheel said:
digital animation is more like someone with just moderate skills in animation using a tool like a swiss knife to create something they likely couldn't remotely do with out the use of that handicap.
digital animation is more like someone with just moderate skills in animation using a tool like a swiss knife to create something they likely couldn't remotely do with out the use of that handicap.
You do realize that actual animators draw on paper these days just like before, right? Animators never touched cels, and they aren't the ones scanning and painting the drawings in new digital anime. These are different roles in the production pipeline. Even if they use a tablet (which is still a minority of animators), it doesn't take less skill to use one, at best it's just a bit less laborious since you can erase bad lines more easily.
CosmicDebris-San said: You do realize that actual animators draw on paper these days just like before, right? Animators never touched cels, and they aren't the ones scanning and painting the drawings in new digital anime. These are different roles in the production pipeline. Even if they use a tablet (which is still a minority of animators), it doesn't take less skill to use one, at best it's just a bit less laborious since you can erase bad lines more easily. Sure anyone can do things by hand but it takes far more skill to produce something only through the use of analog means. It doesn't always take less skill but even animators with moderate skills are able to accomplish the same things one would with extremely impressive skills using the same techniques. It's a crutch much like CAD is when there is far more skill needed in doing things by hand as oppose to using tools that will help automate the process and clearly look more synthetic than a hand drawn finished product. The ends don't always justify the means. Xypheron said: I really don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you suggesting that digital animation allows animators with only basic skills to produce impressive work by leveraging the capabilities of digital tools. Sure you can take it that way if you wish. It reminds me how I am able to use Blender or 3Dmax and create an animation file for a dance routine that can be injected for multiple uses from video game Mods to being used for actual visual animated media and my skills at this are completely amateurish. |
ColourWheelOct 9, 2024 2:41 PM
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Reply to ColourWheel
CosmicDebris-San said:
You do realize that actual animators draw on paper these days just like before, right? Animators never touched cels, and they aren't the ones scanning and painting the drawings in new digital anime. These are different roles in the production pipeline. Even if they use a tablet (which is still a minority of animators), it doesn't take less skill to use one, at best it's just a bit less laborious since you can erase bad lines more easily.
You do realize that actual animators draw on paper these days just like before, right? Animators never touched cels, and they aren't the ones scanning and painting the drawings in new digital anime. These are different roles in the production pipeline. Even if they use a tablet (which is still a minority of animators), it doesn't take less skill to use one, at best it's just a bit less laborious since you can erase bad lines more easily.
Sure anyone can do things by hand but it takes far more skill to produce something only through the use of analog means.
It doesn't always take less skill but even animators with moderate skills are able to accomplish the same things one would with extremely impressive skills using the same techniques. It's a crutch much like CAD is when there is far more skill needed in doing things by hand as oppose to using tools that will help automate the process and clearly look more synthetic than a hand drawn finished product. The ends don't always justify the means.
Xypheron said:
I really don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you suggesting that digital animation allows animators with only basic skills to produce impressive work by leveraging the capabilities of digital tools.
I really don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you suggesting that digital animation allows animators with only basic skills to produce impressive work by leveraging the capabilities of digital tools.
Sure you can take it that way if you wish.
It reminds me how I am able to use Blender or 3Dmax and create an animation file for a dance routine that can be injected for multiple uses from video game Mods to being used for actual visual animated media and my skills at this are completely amateurish.
| @ColourWheel Ok, but in this case you clearly don't understand what the animation pipeline was then and still is now. The animation still begins with paper drawings being hand-drawn by animators most of the time, with reference to a usually hand-drawn storyboard, most animators are not doing anything different than what they did 30 years ago in that regard. Your average industry key animator is currently in their late 30s or early 40s, getting them to adopt tablets is generally a losing battle. It's a bit different for the younger international animators who are getting brought on due to the current industry labor shortage, but they are usually there to fill in small gaps in the production, and no amount of technological or economic advantages are going to grant you fundamentals in proper perspective or effective timing. Often productions get bogged down because people are being brought in from the outside who may be good at drawing but don't really know the pipeline that well and lack some of the necessary skills to function within a commercial animation production, objectively these people are not more easily achieving the same results with digital tools, in what actually matters to produce commercial animation what they draw on is largely irrelevant. There are more opportunities for what you can do with tablet animation over paper, but when it comes to actually making the animation good on a fundamental level it is the exact same skill set people drawing on paper have and it requires the same amount of skill. The big difference between cel animation and digital animation comes in after the animation is actually completed, then it gets scanned onto a computer and from there different departments start to work on the material with digital tools so to paint it, compile different layers, add digital effects and filters and so on. This did eliminate the limitations to layering that cel animation had, but it doesn't make producing such a cut any easier for an animator, rather it just meant that doing so no longer entailed the cut just not making it into the anime. There is a difference in the animation pipeline in so far as it has been divided into smaller pieces, more often we have three animators who will each do one step, layout, rough ka, 2nd ka, and more animation directors all doing corrections on cuts, where before all that work may have just been done by one key animator and one animation director, but that isn't something necessitated by digital production itself, as more divided pipelines like that had appeared during the cel era, it just wasn't yet the norm.  This genga isn't from a 90s anime, it's from Acro Trip, which is currently airing. |
CosmicDebris-SanOct 10, 2024 12:11 AM
| well I'm finally getting around to watching cowboy bebop, and I'm even more into it than I'd thought I'd be. which is weird of me, bc samurai champloo is one of my top favorites... of course I'm gonna love it! |
can't yuck my yum  |
CosmicDebris-San said: This genga isn't from a 90s anime, it's from Acro Trip, which is currently airing. You clearly don't understand where I am coming from, but that's fine if you are content with digital animation. Doesn't matter at what stage of the process you might point to, by the time everything has concluded with digital animation the product itself looks synthetic. The aesthetics of the analog Cel Production looks and feels more alive than something one can produce in the strict confines of a digital world. Even a freaken line drawn using a digital pen will never turn out fluid or straight no matter how hard one might try (by simply focusing in on any line dawn it will always be Jagged). Where I have also seen people make an effort to point to Cel Animation often leaving behind film grain too. Though digital animation often leaves behind digital artifacts too which is far less appealing to be exposed to than film grain. Because digital artifacts are simply just blocky messes on the screen which can be due to multiple reasons from rendering issues, interpolation errors, texture and lighting, to simply just issues with the frame rates. Artifacts are extremely choppy looking and digital animation always stutters during scenes of panning in any animated medium (it's due to being in the confines of a digital world). The degree to which will vary though depending on the actual amounts of frames there actually are to begin with. There is just countless things I have issues with when it comes to digital animation that far exceed the positive aspects of the viewing experience in my opinion where I tend to favor Cel Animation far more than anything that has ever been digitally produced. Even today If I had the option of buy a Music LP, I would always choose buying it on 12" vinyl over any other format if I had that choice to make. Where my 2nd choice would be CDs and lastly some cheap digital copy one can simply download off the internet. The sound quality of a well taken care of 12" vinyl sound exponentially better than anything I have ever downloaded digitally in my life. 12" vinyl even sounds better than CDs. |
ColourWheelOct 10, 2024 1:34 AM
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| Serial Experiments Lain is a Masterpiece. I don't really like Avant Garde anime that gets a little too deep into the Psychological/Philosophical but for some reason I really liked SEL. |
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| @CosmicDebris-San Which is why I revised my statement but that's fine. You already made a post before reading what I had edited. Doesn't matter if a line is drawn straight anyone using a digital pen it will always turn out jagged. No matter how hard one tries one will never be able to draw a fluid line using a digital pen. The main point I was trying to make is there are far more negatives to digital animation than what I find in Cel animation where I favor Cel animation far more than anything digitally produced. |
ColourWheelOct 10, 2024 1:44 AM
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| Considering you didn't specify whether the surprise should be negative or positive, then it's Cowboy Bebop. I enjoyed that series, but the story and writing are very shallow and simple. Definitely not a quality I would expect from a well acclaimed classic. |
ColourWheel said: No matter how hard one tries one will never be able to draw a fluid line using a digital pen. How about using some vector drawing methods (including some Bézier vectors for the curves) and than applying some brush or other drawing instrument effects? Photoshop (and my experiences with it is more than 10 years old, so I guess nowadays it will be even better) gives you some very realistic things like changing the pressure or diluting the color of the "paint" depending on the length. Also you can apply several stokes with different effects on one drawing. For example you can imitate pencil very realistically - not only the color and the wideness of the graphite, but also the dent in the paper. And I was just playing with it, I am no artist of any kind. The problem is exactly that if you are a professional nobody will give you the time to play with such tools. It's the business schedules who actually killed the cell animation because it's a lengthy process. It's the schedules which suck out the soul from the digital animation. Give time and resources to a good artist and they will pull a masterpiece with any tools [they are skillful with]. |
| I was suprised to enjoy Haré+Guu despite me hating comedy anime. |
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| It's got to be Hanada Shounen-shi. It was really beautiful and entertaining. I hope more people are going to watch it. I also was surprised by The Vision of Escaflowne. I just liked the vibes the show was giving. |
CosmicDebris-San said: Once you transfer an analog drawing into a digital format you also necessarily get a jagged line What a bizarre argument. This just leads back to the mentality that simply everything should be experienced through some digital lens. Anime from before the turn of the century was never meant to be digitally converted in the 1st place. Even screenshots taken of Cel animation don't do much justice because it's being freaken digitally converted just for the sake of the screenshot. If you have ever experienced watching an actual Cel Anime movie in an actual theater ones mind would likely be blow away (this is just going by friends who I have taken to go see Anime movies with me in the early 90s). Even experiencing a few dozen titles on Laserdisc on at least a 50" CRT would likely change your perspective about Cel animation too. The issue is with the Western mentality of consuming retro Anime. Anyone who didn't grow up consuming things before everything suddenly became digital will never truly understand retro anime if all they experience is subpar Illegally ripped copies of Cel Anime likely through the use of Illegal Piracy or even Torrents in a digital world or even stuff that has been officially digitally remastered. CosmicDebris-San said: Cel era stuff stutters more often because the camera doesn't always stay still Panning is still more natural in Cel animation. The stutter you complain about with Cel Animation is likely the by-product of trying to convert something that was never meant to be digitally converted in the 1st place. Camera panning in digital format comes off robotic, plan and simply. It's also the by-product of having things confined in a digital environment. |
ColourWheelOct 10, 2024 3:13 AM
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| My first conscious anime was Cowboy Bebop and I still love it to this day. I was also completely blown away by X/1999 by Clamp back then. Not to mention Hellsing Ultimate and Vision of Escaflow But let's be honest for a moment, the list could go on, and on, and on..... |
CosmicDebris-San said: New Blu Ray rips look way better than old VHS or LD rips though There is so much wrong with this statement. Who the fuck would watch Laserdisc "rips" in the 1st place? Unless you are actually watching Anime on an officially released Laserdisc copy your anecdote doesn't hold much weight and I stopped listening to anything you had to say the moment you threw in "rips" twice. I wouldn't even waste my time with a ripped Blu-ray copy. That's like purposely deciding to degrade ones viewing experience. VHS and Laserdisc were never meant to be ripped in the 1st place either. This goes the same with the 1st gen DVD formats and why so many Modern Users tend to think older Anime sucks when it's likely due to their own experiencing consuming something in a completely subpar way to begin with. Official Physical Media in general was never intended to be ripped or converted digitally even if one wants to argue that the quality of a ripped Blu-ray copy is fine for them. This is the problem with too many modern western consumer relying on things through a digital lens mostly through Illegal Piracy that often times gives an unrealistic perception of media released before their time. Sure you "might" have watched Anime on VHS before but that was just a subpar format which has nothing to do with an animations production value. That would be like someone saying Modern Anime is shit because their only experience of it would be always watching it in 240p on an 8" computer monitor 20 feet away through a window across from their neighbors house. |
ColourWheelOct 10, 2024 6:46 AM
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| Ashita no Joe. I had meant to just give the first episode a try and watch it casually afterward, thinking it would take awhile for me to get into it, especially with the old animation, but I was literally HOOKED after the first episode and ended up watching two more in a row the same day. To this day it's one of my favorite anime of all time. Like, I heard of the saying "old is gold" but I honestly did not expect it to be that good, and right from the start! |
2025 MALoween:        |
| Anne of Green Gables. never thought i'd binge a 50 ep anime from '79, but it was great and the dub was also amazing. |
| @CosmicDebris-San You are doing nothing other than trying convince yourself here of something no one is even listening to anymore... Believe whatever you want dude. CosmicDebris-San said: Why would creators of anime intend to make something that would only hold up on a specific format or formats that could easily get superseded by another one? Because no creator in their right mind would have ever thought a majority of Western consumers in the 2020s would one day simply just Illegally try to rip their hard work to the extent Users do these days. Contrary to belief, it's technically Illegal to rip any Commercial copies of official Anime released on physical Media before and even today. The moment anyone breaks the DRM of an Official physical copy of any Anime on physical media they are breaking the law. Besides you seem to be always ignoring the fact I keep mentioning that a majority of Anime produced before a certain time period was never intended to be digitally converted in the 1st place. Where no matter what type of software one tries to use even if they are stupid enough to waste their time to try will always turn out like crap in a digital format. Always devaluing the visual and audio experience exponentially when consumed that way. A Majority of anime before the turn of the century it's master source was simply just film reels not something ideal for digital anything. 30 to 40 years from now the Anime that is being release today will likely not hold up in the minds of modern Users to whatever arbitrary standards they might pull out of their asses when looking at what the future holds for this medium. likely I imagine Users in the future 40 years from now will mostly bitch and whine about Anime from the 2020s is simply filled with too many digital artifacts (whether it's used on purpose or not) and specifically complain it looks too synthetically cartoonishly dated. |
ColourWheelOct 10, 2024 11:17 AM
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| There were many classics that took me by surprise but i’d have to say “Ashita no Joe” was one series that really blew me away with it’s story and direction. Same goes with “Nobody’s Boy Remi” or even “Yu Yu Hakusho. |
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Reply to Lentus1
@Deathko digital animation is better than cel animation. That is all I'm saying. Animation has naturally evolved from cel to digital for more freedom and capabilities and in general digital gives better image. Industry hacks cutting costs and outsourcing simply can not be avoided and has never been fully avoided to begin with.
| @LenRea "Animation has naturally evolved from cel to digital for more freedom and capabilities and in general digital gives better image." That's not... hum... how do I say it... that's not particularly true? You're being very vague, but I'm going to assume your first point is about things that are commonly associated with the shift to digital animation, like the use of (often very cheap and poor looking) 3d and gradients/light effects. Well, you could very well use 3d tools to make your scene, then... draw it on cels. That's basically rotoscoping, and that's way older than digital animation. It costs an arm, because you basically have to create your scene twice, but it works. Gradients and light effects? Cel animation got you covered with underlighting, which is very labor-intensive, but looks awesome. The only thing I can think of that might be exclusive to digital animation is the fancy texture effects that you'll find in Gankutsuou or Mononoke, but that's hardly mainstream, or common. Your second point is just full no-no. There's a reason why you have awesome-looking, HD blu-rays of Akira nowadays, while early digital anime are forever stuck in 720p (well, maybe the industry started AI-rescaling shows now, I've been ot of the loop for a few years). Nothing about digital gives a "better image". People often assume cel animation looked fuzzy and unclear because of 480p streaming and artifacting during dark scenes. Well, the reason why so many cel anime were so dark is precisely because there was NO artifacting before the digital era. You could have pitch black scenes, and the image stayed clear and crisp. Digital animation = cheaper and more practical. That's why it's there, not because it makes a better final product. This is not a diss or an assertion that every cel anime > every digital anime. I'm just annoyed at the "newer = better" stance so common in anime communities, especially since we're talking about art. This isn't just true for animation, btw. If you're familiar with music, the history of reverbs is a permanent chase for something more practical and compact, leading to modern digital reverbs. NOBODY is going to tell you that a digital church reverb sounds better than recording in an actual church, tho. That'd be an incredibly wild take that'd get you laughed at. It's just billion times more practical and cheaper. (This said, digital reverbs DO offer a lot of creativity that is just out of the picture with actual physical reverberation, or old-school analog reverbs. Just saying it before someone notices and starts pretending my analogy undermines the first part of my post. You can attack my analogy-making skills if you want, but you're not allowed to use it to attack my first point 😂) |
DeathkoOct 10, 2024 5:36 PM
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| Utena and Legend of the Galactic Heroes. |
| I'm also going to have to go with Legend of the Galactic Heroes. I ended up marathoning it over a couple days. |
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
CosmicDebris-San said: I'm tired of you just talking past all of my points. Then just shut the fuck up alerady. I quit caring about anything you had to say when you started acting like some dumbass pseudo intellectual on the matter, pretending that the shit you been pulling out of your ass some how invalidates anything you disagree with. I doubt anyone else cares what you have to say at this point and I wouldn't doubt Users stopped reading your shitty ass takes on this medium just as much as Users probably stopped reading the shit I have been posting in responses to all the diarrhea you been spewing out in the last few days just on this thread alone. Do yourself a favor and just stop wasting your time and go fuck off and enjoy the Digital Animation you so highly place on your metaphorical pedestal because you have some how convinced yourself it's superior to Cel Animation. Like I could really give a shit about your opinion to begin with let alone even bother respecting it when you clearly never respected my opinions from the get go. I really don't even care if it's just because you are some type of bratty pretentious arrogant asshole acting like some keyboard warrior in real life and you just can't help but pretend you are always right on a clearly subjective matter. So I will just say it again, go fuck off kid. lol |
ColourWheelOct 11, 2024 2:40 AM
|
| @CosmicDebris-San lol You want to know why I have been acting like an 8th grader. It's because I have obviously been dealing with someone who is likely an 8th grader pretending they know shit about anything who can't even take a hint when someone tells them to go fuck off. lol Literally less than a few hours ago you make a post bitching and whining that you are just so tired of me talking past "your" points, without even realizing I stopped giving a two shits about any type of point you have been trying to make to begin with a long time ago. CosmicDebris-San said: I'm tired of you just talking past all of my points. So again, go fuck off kid! lol If you can't do that then you must just be some type of retarded masochist. lol Edit: For the record, Dumbass. Your original gripe was taking issue over a fucking opinion I made here... ColourWheel said: Digital animation is more like someone with just moderate skills in animation using a tool like a swiss knife to create something they likely couldn't remotely do with out the use of that handicap. Then you go off literally like pulling shit out of your ass here... CosmicDebris-San said: Ok, but in this case you clearly don't understand what the animation pipeline was then and still is now. Then you start making bold claims that I don't know shit about the opinions I have made, where on minute you act like you are some senior citizen in diapers talking down to some kid then the next moment pretending to I am the Grampa... CosmicDebris-San said: being old is no excuse for being ignorant about a subject you are outspoken about What will it take to make you finally fuck off? Is it you want me to say you are right? If that is the case then fine Grampa you are truly the righteous Anime God who knowns better than everyone else even when it comes to subjective opinions. Now go fuck off before more shit just keeps pilling up in your diaper. lol |
ColourWheelOct 11, 2024 4:47 AM
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| Just get a room and stop spamming this thread you dweebs 😭 |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
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