| I'd take any kind of of comments such as these with a grain of salt, but personally I wouldn't be shocked if it were true. Despite how much everyone on this site loves anime, the reality is that there is only so much demand for shows, merch, etc. The more anime being produced, the smaller the slice of that "attention" pie each anime receives. The less attention a show gets, the less revenue it generates and the less likely the studio is to turn a profit on said anime. That results in less anime overall since it doesn't make sense for studios to throw more money at a bad investment. A lot of these studios are likely to find themselves bankrupt because they assume that the demand for anime is going to increase right along with the increase in supply, but when the demand remains the same (or even declines because lower average quality drives consumers away from the medium), there just isn't enough money to go around. This next sentence is going to upset most people that frequent MAL, but piracy and bootleg merchandise aren't helping matters either. Say what you want about how terrible X streaming service or Y website is, but that pie gets even smaller when the consumers with the biggest appetite for the product steal it rather than pay for it. What's the solution? If I had a simple answer, I'd be doing something far better with my time than lurking on MAL forums and I would be getting paid for that time accordingly. Maybe some combination of improving quality in such a way as to increase demand and making legal (profitable) methods attractive enough to make pirates pay for what they consume would help, but that's easier said than done. I imagine that the ultimate endgame here is that the bubble indeed bursts and we see most of the smaller studios shut their doors and the bigger ones either cutting back on the number of shows they produce or absorbing the more popular IPs that the small companies lose to replace their less profitable shows. |
Reply to AnimePedestrian
@nyugvo6 You know anime merch is pretty expensive come to think about it. And blu rays are a total scam with some of them costing hundreds of dollars (not including shipping and import)
| @AnimePedestrian I'm fully aware, I've been collecting anime figures since 2011 or so. |
| 馬鹿げた倫理 全部ガラクタで |
Reply to AnimePedestrian
@RobertBobert Well I think my point is, no recently released haram anime would get a sequel. Investors would not green light something unproven. For stuff like Harem they'd likely return to an older approach of banging out a mid to poor anime prehaps 12 episodes for a popular haram LN or Manga and then rinse and repeat.
They'd be more cagey. It be also hard to argue 'an audience needs a conclusion' as investors will only be considered with profit margins.
I mean I am no connoisseur of Harem but I see them as lubricious as say Iseaki. They are plethorated at a great extent and likely there numbers would fall sharply in a post-bubble collapse.
Similar to Moe and Mecha Anime or in gaming the Sci Fi Shooter then Modern Warfare Shooter. Things have there time.
So they might see a reduction.
It would mean Harem and Iseaki anime which survive the deluge would be better. Possibly even some introspective and deconstructionist takes on the genre like Evangelion was to Mecha which will improve the genre's standing. In gaming there the recent Six Days in Fallujah which is a more serious take on the Modern FPS game which was so ubiquitous back in the late 2000s early 2010s.
They'd be more cagey. It be also hard to argue 'an audience needs a conclusion' as investors will only be considered with profit margins.
I mean I am no connoisseur of Harem but I see them as lubricious as say Iseaki. They are plethorated at a great extent and likely there numbers would fall sharply in a post-bubble collapse.
Similar to Moe and Mecha Anime or in gaming the Sci Fi Shooter then Modern Warfare Shooter. Things have there time.
So they might see a reduction.
It would mean Harem and Iseaki anime which survive the deluge would be better. Possibly even some introspective and deconstructionist takes on the genre like Evangelion was to Mecha which will improve the genre's standing. In gaming there the recent Six Days in Fallujah which is a more serious take on the Modern FPS game which was so ubiquitous back in the late 2000s early 2010s.
| @AnimePedestrian >no recently released haram anime would get a sequel. Investors would not green light something unproven. https://myanimelist.net/anime/57616/Kimi_no_Koto_ga_Daidaidaidaidaisuki_na_100-nin_no_Kanojo_2nd_Season https://myanimelist.net/anime/52995/Arifureta_Shokugyou_de_Sekai_Saikyou_Season_3 Date A Live S5 @ALEXxAMI The money people use to pay legal sites don't go to the creators, they went to streaming service. Better to not pay for something we know is not going to reach to the creators in the first place. |
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
Reply to Nurguburu
@AnimePedestrian
>no recently released haram anime would get a sequel. Investors would not green light something unproven.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/57616/Kimi_no_Koto_ga_Daidaidaidaidaisuki_na_100-nin_no_Kanojo_2nd_Season
https://myanimelist.net/anime/52995/Arifureta_Shokugyou_de_Sekai_Saikyou_Season_3
Date A Live S5
@ALEXxAMI The money people use to pay legal sites don't go to the creators, they went to streaming service. Better to not pay for something we know is not going to reach to the creators in the first place.
>no recently released haram anime would get a sequel. Investors would not green light something unproven.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/57616/Kimi_no_Koto_ga_Daidaidaidaidaisuki_na_100-nin_no_Kanojo_2nd_Season
https://myanimelist.net/anime/52995/Arifureta_Shokugyou_de_Sekai_Saikyou_Season_3
Date A Live S5
@ALEXxAMI The money people use to pay legal sites don't go to the creators, they went to streaming service. Better to not pay for something we know is not going to reach to the creators in the first place.
| @Nurguburu Season 5 so it's had 4 successful prior series. So that's more an outlier. Investors will often back what appears to be successful series. Legacy a big part of that. |
Sometimes it takes a real man to be best girl. Gilgamesh is also chad.   |
Reply to NoelleIsSleepy
@AshuAmbrose oh thank god! it's another sane human. trashy isekai is a trend that needs to die, totally agree.
| @NoelleIsSleepy you need to read it carefully about his phrase. trashy OP MC, not trashy isekai. that's different. isekai is the most creative genre that combines ARPG and open-world elements. while I may totally agree that most of them are for sure trash, because of lazy writing or the same motif is used over and over again but I also cannot argue with what I just said. it just needs a better writing, better execution, better storytelling instead of relying on some lame-ass trope like a cheat, harem (with misogyny vibe) or some kind of edgy-shit |
Reply to DX_impulse
@NoelleIsSleepy
you need to read it carefully about his phrase.
trashy OP MC, not trashy isekai.
that's different.
isekai is the most creative genre that combines ARPG and open-world elements.
while I may totally agree that most of them are for sure trash, because of lazy writing or the same motif is used over and over again but I also cannot argue with what I just said.
it just needs a better writing, better execution, better storytelling instead of relying on some lame-ass trope like a cheat, harem (with misogyny vibe) or some kind of edgy-shit
you need to read it carefully about his phrase.
trashy OP MC, not trashy isekai.
that's different.
isekai is the most creative genre that combines ARPG and open-world elements.
while I may totally agree that most of them are for sure trash, because of lazy writing or the same motif is used over and over again but I also cannot argue with what I just said.
it just needs a better writing, better execution, better storytelling instead of relying on some lame-ass trope like a cheat, harem (with misogyny vibe) or some kind of edgy-shit
| @DX_impulse Blaming harems for misogyny and loving moe titles that objectify women so much at their core that even the Japanese themselves jokingly call such shows “girl zoo”? OK. I have long come to terms with the fact that yuri fans hate harems as a class enemy. But "misogyny" is not the best argument for this fight, lol. @Nurguburu 100 kanoujo is a very obvious parody of the genre, Arifutera gets sequels only at the expense of LN, Date a Live is a dinosaur of times past, which is also a semi-parody of the genre and would have died at one time if not for the fans. Not the best examples. |
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Reply to RobertBobert
@DX_impulse Blaming harems for misogyny and loving moe titles that objectify women so much at their core that even the Japanese themselves jokingly call such shows “girl zoo”? OK. I have long come to terms with the fact that yuri fans hate harems as a class enemy. But "misogyny" is not the best argument for this fight, lol.
@Nurguburu 100 kanoujo is a very obvious parody of the genre, Arifutera gets sequels only at the expense of LN, Date a Live is a dinosaur of times past, which is also a semi-parody of the genre and would have died at one time if not for the fans. Not the best examples.
@Nurguburu 100 kanoujo is a very obvious parody of the genre, Arifutera gets sequels only at the expense of LN, Date a Live is a dinosaur of times past, which is also a semi-parody of the genre and would have died at one time if not for the fans. Not the best examples.
| @RobertBobert oh pls. I dont give a damn about Japanese themselves think of any other moe show, their weird mindset is technically unfit for me and im not gonna plan to understand it. you probably dont know why I said it's "vibe". but in terms of sexism or these types of straight/het harem cliché are getting mass-produced, and it's already represented in almost every isekai show, you know I said the truth. I can even enjoy yuri-harem, onee-loli without any doubt, and that is the difference, so it's not like Im blaming harem for misogyny, Im just blaming 80% of that genre. and pls dont think yuri-fan are all the same at this time when culture, religion, politics are being dragged in like a reason to judge. |
Reply to RobertBobert
@ColourWheel I don't know. All we have since those times is a meme about “every shitty mecha show should have a robot with a drill” and jokes about mediocre mecha shows in boomer anime. While the West is literally consumed by hatred of isekai, even to quite influential people. Although the Japanese themselves are quite obsessed with isekai as a meme and even include references to it in IMAS or Love Live.
RobertBobert said: I don't know. All we have since those times is a meme about “every shitty mecha show should have a robot with a drill” and jokes about mediocre mecha shows in boomer anime. While the West is literally consumed by hatred of isekai, even to quite influential people. Although the Japanese themselves are quite obsessed with isekai as a meme and even include references to it in IMAS or Love Live. Just to give you some context and perspective just picture this for a moment... Imagine if the internet and social media existed back in the 80s and 90s like we have today. I am sure there would be plenty of influential people and online personalities in the West that would manage to fan the flames to exponentially amplify the mild hatred that you already perceive about for mediocre mecha back then. By the time those memes even existed this medium already moved passed the onslaught of mediocre mecha and "Dragon Ball Z" managed to popularize Battle Shounen Boner material in the west with memes like "It's over 9000!!!". By this time there was no need for any complaints for mecha Anime because not really a whole lot of mediocre mecha was actually being produced after the turn of the century. Even during the early 2000s the West was still catching up with a lot of Anime that was produced in Japan almost a decade before that already finished airing sometimes even in the late 80s and early 90s. The mild perceived hatred for mecha Anime simply just turned into jokes with "To create a successful Anime one only needs a Schoolgirl, a Mecha, and Panties!" |
ColourWheelJul 11, 1:46 AM
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Reply to DX_impulse
@RobertBobert
oh pls.
I dont give a damn about Japanese themselves think of any other moe show, their weird mindset is technically unfit for me and im not gonna plan to understand it.
you probably dont know why I said it's "vibe".
but in terms of sexism or these types of straight/het harem cliché are getting mass-produced, and it's already represented in almost every isekai show, you know I said the truth.
I can even enjoy yuri-harem, onee-loli without any doubt, and that is the difference, so it's not like Im blaming harem for misogyny, Im just blaming 80% of that genre.
and pls dont think yuri-fan are all the same at this time when culture, religion, politics are being dragged in like a reason to judge.
oh pls.
I dont give a damn about Japanese themselves think of any other moe show, their weird mindset is technically unfit for me and im not gonna plan to understand it.
you probably dont know why I said it's "vibe".
but in terms of sexism or these types of straight/het harem cliché are getting mass-produced, and it's already represented in almost every isekai show, you know I said the truth.
I can even enjoy yuri-harem, onee-loli without any doubt, and that is the difference, so it's not like Im blaming harem for misogyny, Im just blaming 80% of that genre.
and pls dont think yuri-fan are all the same at this time when culture, religion, politics are being dragged in like a reason to judge.
| @DX_impulse You forgot that it is the Japanese who create these shows. And even VAs that specialize in such titles like Aimi call them that (not to mention how culturally insensitive it is to comment that Japanese people "get Japanese shows wrong). Whether you criticize everything or just 80% (which is almost the same thing), the modern market for CGDCT moe anime is much broader than harems. So if you want to complain about misogyny in anime, you're better off talking to the creators of your favorite shows rather than half-dead harems. Not to mention that male focused yuri basically copies the same tropes. @ColourWheel Well, I don’t know what the internet was like in the west in the 00s, but that didn’t stop people in those years from hating Naruto and mainstream shonen fans. For example, the word "narutard" became a meme in those years. |
RobertBobertJul 11, 1:48 AM
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Reply to RobertBobert
@DX_impulse You forgot that it is the Japanese who create these shows. And even VAs that specialize in such titles like Aimi call them that (not to mention how culturally insensitive it is to comment that Japanese people "get Japanese shows wrong). Whether you criticize everything or just 80% (which is almost the same thing), the modern market for CGDCT moe anime is much broader than harems. So if you want to complain about misogyny in anime, you're better off talking to the creators of your favorite shows rather than half-dead harems. Not to mention that male focused yuri basically copies the same tropes.
@ColourWheel Well, I don’t know what the internet was like in the west in the 00s, but that didn’t stop people in those years from hating Naruto and mainstream shonen fans. For example, the word "narutard" became a meme in those years.
@ColourWheel Well, I don’t know what the internet was like in the west in the 00s, but that didn’t stop people in those years from hating Naruto and mainstream shonen fans. For example, the word "narutard" became a meme in those years.
| @RobertBobert nahh, Im just pointing out what really happened in the so-called "trashy isekai", so I dont need to talk to anyone. they created it (my favorite show), so what? did they have the right to define the audience had to think the same for what they think when they created it? I dont know what kind of driving you want to take but if your point is straight/het harem show is no misogyny, im gonna have to say you have not see it yet (which is why I called it "vibe") or your mind refuse to see it (which it is also fine cuz ppl have their own point of view anyway) I dont know why you put moe show, yuri into this, just because you were looking at my list or you are a moe hater but well, its just not the best argument to (which I did not see it as) a fight. and the modern market favored moe-fan, I disagree with it and I believe you have no proof for it. looks at these types of manhua, manhwa, LN, VN, manga, games. Looks at what target audience, they're aiming to? almost any of them have harem vibes but just a different type of it or it just needs progress to be. |
Reply to RobertBobert
@DX_impulse You forgot that it is the Japanese who create these shows. And even VAs that specialize in such titles like Aimi call them that (not to mention how culturally insensitive it is to comment that Japanese people "get Japanese shows wrong). Whether you criticize everything or just 80% (which is almost the same thing), the modern market for CGDCT moe anime is much broader than harems. So if you want to complain about misogyny in anime, you're better off talking to the creators of your favorite shows rather than half-dead harems. Not to mention that male focused yuri basically copies the same tropes.
@ColourWheel Well, I don’t know what the internet was like in the west in the 00s, but that didn’t stop people in those years from hating Naruto and mainstream shonen fans. For example, the word "narutard" became a meme in those years.
@ColourWheel Well, I don’t know what the internet was like in the west in the 00s, but that didn’t stop people in those years from hating Naruto and mainstream shonen fans. For example, the word "narutard" became a meme in those years.
RobertBobert said: @ColourWheel Well, I don’t know what the internet was like in the west in the 00s, but that didn’t stop people in those years from hating Naruto and mainstream shonen fans. For example, the word "narutard" became a meme in those years. People simple have different perceptions and sometimes even misguided perceptions about how people perceived Anime back then in the west. Even in the late 90s when around the time "Hentai" was 1st coined in this medium, most people just thought all "Hentai" was just "tentacle rape porn" because for the most part that was all that was mostly actually officially available at the time in the west beyond what any hardcore otaku actually knew about and it was mostly just random pictures one could dig up in shady corners of the web. Other than stuff like "Urotsukidoji" and "La Blue Girl" in the late 90s those were really the only 2 main franchise out of the very few that one could actually officially get their hands on beyond VHS bootlegs and imports because any other Hentai that was actually officially released in the West was actually extremely rare to find let alone for someone to get their hands on. Even when I was still in college there was a dude at my school who didn't like Mecha Anime at all and it often showed. In the dorm I was in if someone was playing Mecha Anime in the common room the dude literally would sometimes throw fits, bitching about wanting to watch something else. Always going on about how lame they thought mecha was and wanted someone to at least put something else on that was to his standard of being like either "Akira" or "Ninja Scroll" like or something along those lines (The guy was just an asshole and not very many people liked him). Pointing this out I can't imagine this guy is some anomaly and there were probably other like him alive at the time in the West across the nation. |
ColourWheelJul 11, 3:22 AM
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Reply to Nurguburu
@AnimePedestrian
>no recently released haram anime would get a sequel. Investors would not green light something unproven.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/57616/Kimi_no_Koto_ga_Daidaidaidaidaisuki_na_100-nin_no_Kanojo_2nd_Season
https://myanimelist.net/anime/52995/Arifureta_Shokugyou_de_Sekai_Saikyou_Season_3
Date A Live S5
@ALEXxAMI The money people use to pay legal sites don't go to the creators, they went to streaming service. Better to not pay for something we know is not going to reach to the creators in the first place.
>no recently released haram anime would get a sequel. Investors would not green light something unproven.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/57616/Kimi_no_Koto_ga_Daidaidaidaidaisuki_na_100-nin_no_Kanojo_2nd_Season
https://myanimelist.net/anime/52995/Arifureta_Shokugyou_de_Sekai_Saikyou_Season_3
Date A Live S5
@ALEXxAMI The money people use to pay legal sites don't go to the creators, they went to streaming service. Better to not pay for something we know is not going to reach to the creators in the first place.
| @Nurguburu The money people use to pay legal sites don't go to the creators, they went to streaming service. Better to not pay for something we know is not going to reach to the creators in the first place. I mean that is just straight up misinformation. CR is on the production committee for multiple shows this season. Season to season you will find them on the committee for a lot of shows. That means they directly funded the production. Even licensing deals, do make an impact in the overall industry. When you look at AJA data, around almost half of the industry's profits now are made up of international funding, sure that could be merch however, streaming is becoming a bigger slice of that pie, Netflix for instance is directly partnering with notable studios like Trigger or WIT. What do you think they are doing? Why do you think a One Piece remake is even happening lol? It's cause Netflix is ponying up the cash. Pluto was rumored to be in financial hell until Netflix stepped in, so that show wouldn't have even finished without legal sites. If you want to argue "legal sites" don't directly fund creators, like the animators specifically sure, though if that is the argument to stop supporting legal anime, then all Japanese fans should stop legally buying anything as well lol. CR and Netflix behave just like other groups on a production committee. That is all. Tired of seeing arguments that are at least a decade old in terms of being antiquated. |
BilboBaggins365Jul 11, 4:13 AM
Reply to DX_impulse
@RobertBobert
nahh, Im just pointing out what really happened in the so-called "trashy isekai", so I dont need to talk to anyone.
they created it (my favorite show), so what?
did they have the right to define the audience had to think the same for what they think when they created it?
I dont know what kind of driving you want to take but if your point is straight/het harem show is no misogyny, im gonna have to say you have not see it yet (which is why I called it "vibe") or your mind refuse to see it (which it is also fine cuz ppl have their own point of view anyway)
I dont know why you put moe show, yuri into this, just because you were looking at my list or you are a moe hater but well, its just not the best argument to (which I did not see it as) a fight.
and the modern market favored moe-fan, I disagree with it and I believe you have no proof for it.
looks at these types of manhua, manhwa, LN, VN, manga, games.
Looks at what target audience, they're aiming to?
almost any of them have harem vibes but just a different type of it or it just needs progress to be.
nahh, Im just pointing out what really happened in the so-called "trashy isekai", so I dont need to talk to anyone.
they created it (my favorite show), so what?
did they have the right to define the audience had to think the same for what they think when they created it?
I dont know what kind of driving you want to take but if your point is straight/het harem show is no misogyny, im gonna have to say you have not see it yet (which is why I called it "vibe") or your mind refuse to see it (which it is also fine cuz ppl have their own point of view anyway)
I dont know why you put moe show, yuri into this, just because you were looking at my list or you are a moe hater but well, its just not the best argument to (which I did not see it as) a fight.
and the modern market favored moe-fan, I disagree with it and I believe you have no proof for it.
looks at these types of manhua, manhwa, LN, VN, manga, games.
Looks at what target audience, they're aiming to?
almost any of them have harem vibes but just a different type of it or it just needs progress to be.
| @DX_impulse They create these works, they target them, and they are the main audience that reads them. You may arrogantly define yourself as superior to the original authors, publications, and audiences of your favorite works, but you simply cannot ignore it. Otherwise, you'll act like those weirdos from shonen fandom who first tweet about how "men are the main problem with shonen anime" and then wonder why everyone makes fun of them. These works really fetishize women no less than harems or rom-coms, and someones even more so. This won't change even if you conveniently decide to ignore the Japanese and Western fandom/market for such titles. Vibes and other "implications" are not an argument for me. With the same logic, I can call any Nakama power titles harems, because many of them are built on the concept “MC is the life of the party and has many friends.” Although this has long served as a loophole for declaring non-romantic school shows as "yuri/BL harems" by shippers. However, if you unironically use the formulation “I believe that you have no evidence” instead of some reasonable “you have not given me evidence”, this dialogue is meaningless in advance. You simply see what you want to see. Ignoring even the peak popularity of your favorite genres, because it prevents you from complaining about the dominance of your unloved ones. Holy simplicity. @ColourWheel There have always been vocal haters or fans. For example, one of my childhood friends was that “all anime is porn for perverts” guy and would constantly see ecchi in any anime I mentioned. Although, ironically, he didn't hate Japanese games, since being an old gamer he was just used to them, lmao. |
RobertBobertJul 11, 10:05 AM
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| This is something people have been saying for years |
| @RobertBobert Look at the profile of the person you're talking to. Harem hater while loving Yuri shows, they're a hypocrite. |
| "Well, she's flatter than a pancake" -Mimi Alpacas "Woof" -Tobiichi Origami "Are you trying to turn the dormitory into a strip club!?! -Atena Saotome |
| Or maybe people are buying less merch because the economy is bad and everyone has less disposable income? |
Reply to Tropisch
@RobertBobert Look at the profile of the person you're talking to. Harem hater while loving Yuri shows, they're a hypocrite.
| @Tropisch Hypocrite or not, I don't know. I'm already used to yuri fans hating harems for some reason. |
|
| Anyway to respond to the thread maybe. I mean this was something I heard forecasted in like 2018/2019 and since then anime has only grown to be vastly bigger than before (the CoVid wave was real). Though, again over production is an issue and there will eventually be a point where anime hits saturation again, and interests drops off. This is happening in a lot of major media industries these days, so that isn't shocking. I am confused what he means by merch. Domestic or international? International would hurt, however, if it is domestic, largely being fueled by the ongoing recession yeah that could be a problem, merch sales make up a decent share of the pie. There are people being over dramatic, acting like cuts in profits, is going to destroy the industry, however yeah we might see more studio closures and less shows. Though it's not something to be happy about as some may think. No it's probably not going to be the isekai shows you hate some much that might be cancelled, likely it's some other nicher or less tried concept that gets thrown out. For all the problems of the increasing production cycle in the industry, it is ensuring more shows get sequels and ensure that shows that were less likely to be adapted in the past, get adapted. That can be a good thing. |
Reply to BilboBaggins365
Anyway to respond to the thread maybe. I mean this was something I heard forecasted in like 2018/2019 and since then anime has only grown to be vastly bigger than before (the CoVid wave was real). Though, again over production is an issue and there will eventually be a point where anime hits saturation again, and interests drops off. This is happening in a lot of major media industries these days, so that isn't shocking. I am confused what he means by merch. Domestic or international? International would hurt, however, if it is domestic, largely being fueled by the ongoing recession yeah that could be a problem, merch sales make up a decent share of the pie.
There are people being over dramatic, acting like cuts in profits, is going to destroy the industry, however yeah we might see more studio closures and less shows. Though it's not something to be happy about as some may think. No it's probably not going to be the isekai shows you hate some much that might be cancelled, likely it's some other nicher or less tried concept that gets thrown out. For all the problems of the increasing production cycle in the industry, it is ensuring more shows get sequels and ensure that shows that were less likely to be adapted in the past, get adapted. That can be a good thing.
There are people being over dramatic, acting like cuts in profits, is going to destroy the industry, however yeah we might see more studio closures and less shows. Though it's not something to be happy about as some may think. No it's probably not going to be the isekai shows you hate some much that might be cancelled, likely it's some other nicher or less tried concept that gets thrown out. For all the problems of the increasing production cycle in the industry, it is ensuring more shows get sequels and ensure that shows that were less likely to be adapted in the past, get adapted. That can be a good thing.
| @BilboBaggins365 He didn't go into detail, or at least I didn't get to that point, but for some reason he emphasized selling action figures. |
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Reply to RobertBobert
@BilboBaggins365 He didn't go into detail, or at least I didn't get to that point, but for some reason he emphasized selling action figures.
| @RobertBobert I mean merch sales are big, when you look at the AJA data. The amount of hurt that it could have on the industry is dependent on if he is talking domestic or international. I wouldn't be shocked if sales go down in the next report we get because again they are in a recession. They have less money for media frivolities. Even as intentional investment increases, Japan is still the big guy, and if fans are spending less due to hard economic circumstances, you bet we are going to start seeing it pop up in this industry. |
Reply to Nutella71
_FRB_ said:
I didn't see it as much of a transgender allegory since, through the power of anime magic, Mahiro does literally turn into a girl. He's not a guy who thinks he's girl or wants to be a girl.
I can see why people didn't it see as alluding to being trans, but one part before what you mention (feeling like a girl) definitely could be read as such: body dysphoria and feeling like a stranger in ones body (exactly the fact Mahiro doesn't want to be a girl a.k.a his mind doesn't align with his body).I didn't see it as much of a transgender allegory since, through the power of anime magic, Mahiro does literally turn into a girl. He's not a guy who thinks he's girl or wants to be a girl.
| @Nutella71 I have only one question, is this title about a classic permanent gender bender or is it temporary? @BilboBaggins365 Do you want to hint that if the industry does not show significant drops in profits, then the problems with merch are exaggerated? |
|
Reply to RobertBobert
@Nutella71 I have only one question, is this title about a classic permanent gender bender or is it temporary?
@BilboBaggins365 Do you want to hint that if the industry does not show significant drops in profits, then the problems with merch are exaggerated?
@BilboBaggins365 Do you want to hint that if the industry does not show significant drops in profits, then the problems with merch are exaggerated?
| @RobertBobert Well I mean yeah, we will eventually known if this is true. I don't know when AJA releases it's next report however, the last one was before the recession so it should be interesting. It's just unless he has a quote or some data, it's just hearsay. So unless he is in talks with Japanese executives that distribute anime merch, I am just confused where he is getting his ideas. Honestly wouldn't be shocked if it is true. |
Reply to BilboBaggins365
@RobertBobert Well I mean yeah, we will eventually known if this is true. I don't know when AJA releases it's next report however, the last one was before the recession so it should be interesting. It's just unless he has a quote or some data, it's just hearsay. So unless he is in talks with Japanese executives that distribute anime merch, I am just confused where he is getting his ideas. Honestly wouldn't be shocked if it is true.
| @BilboBaggins365 In general, where does the main income in the anime industry come from now? If physical media is gradually becoming a thing of the past. Streaming and broadcast ratings? |
|
| I tend to only watch high-quality anime. Like Senran Kagura, Hyperdimension Neptunia, Date a Live and Kantai Collection. |
Reply to RobertBobert
@BilboBaggins365 In general, where does the main income in the anime industry come from now? If physical media is gradually becoming a thing of the past. Streaming and broadcast ratings?
| @RobertBobert You can explore for yourself https://aja.gr.jp/english/japan-anime-data These reports are created through collaboration of various actual anime studios and Japanese proffessors studying mass media. Just under half of the industry's profits are coming from international sources, however they don't really make a distinction where that international profit is coming from so could be merch, streaming, physical sales. Domestically merch is the biggest. So that is why it could be concerning. Pachinko funnily enough is the second biggest (I think Re Zero had an exclusive animated scene just for Pachinko), with internet distribution being the third. |
| Japan don't need their opinions at all, they made, make and will make manga and anime for THEIR AUDITORY. |
 |
Reply to BilboBaggins365
@Nurguburu
I mean that is just straight up misinformation. CR is on the production committee for multiple shows this season. Season to season you will find them on the committee for a lot of shows. That means they directly funded the production. Even licensing deals, do make an impact in the overall industry.
When you look at AJA data, around almost half of the industry's profits now are made up of international funding, sure that could be merch however, streaming is becoming a bigger slice of that pie, Netflix for instance is directly partnering with notable studios like Trigger or WIT. What do you think they are doing? Why do you think a One Piece remake is even happening lol? It's cause Netflix is ponying up the cash. Pluto was rumored to be in financial hell until Netflix stepped in, so that show wouldn't have even finished without legal sites.
If you want to argue "legal sites" don't directly fund creators, like the animators specifically sure, though if that is the argument to stop supporting legal anime, then all Japanese fans should stop legally buying anything as well lol. CR and Netflix behave just like other groups on a production committee. That is all.
Tired of seeing arguments that are at least a decade old in terms of being antiquated.
The money people use to pay legal sites don't go to the creators, they went to streaming service. Better to not pay for something we know is not going to reach to the creators in the first place.
I mean that is just straight up misinformation. CR is on the production committee for multiple shows this season. Season to season you will find them on the committee for a lot of shows. That means they directly funded the production. Even licensing deals, do make an impact in the overall industry.
When you look at AJA data, around almost half of the industry's profits now are made up of international funding, sure that could be merch however, streaming is becoming a bigger slice of that pie, Netflix for instance is directly partnering with notable studios like Trigger or WIT. What do you think they are doing? Why do you think a One Piece remake is even happening lol? It's cause Netflix is ponying up the cash. Pluto was rumored to be in financial hell until Netflix stepped in, so that show wouldn't have even finished without legal sites.
If you want to argue "legal sites" don't directly fund creators, like the animators specifically sure, though if that is the argument to stop supporting legal anime, then all Japanese fans should stop legally buying anything as well lol. CR and Netflix behave just like other groups on a production committee. That is all.
Tired of seeing arguments that are at least a decade old in terms of being antiquated.
| @BilboBaggins365 If CR doesn't steal money from their consumers, explain why and how High Guardian Spice, a western show, was made. It's pretty obvious the site is corrupt with such action so many people can't look CR with the same eyes from that incident. Buying physical merchandise is more reliable so the money you pay is in good hands instead of paying for a legal site who do dirty business behind. Also, Anime studios made the Anime, not streaming services. |
NurguburuJul 11, 3:59 PM
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
Reply to Nurguburu
@BilboBaggins365 If CR doesn't steal money from their consumers, explain why and how High Guardian Spice, a western show, was made. It's pretty obvious the site is corrupt with such action so many people can't look CR with the same eyes from that incident. Buying physical merchandise is more reliable so the money you pay is in good hands instead of paying for a legal site who do dirty business behind. Also, Anime studios made the Anime, not streaming services.
| @Nurguburu Because not every company immediately assigns profit back to the original revenue source? They do this because they assume they can expand and make more money elsewhere? CR thought they could make their own "domestic anime" and increase revenue, by keeping it in house and there probably was a belief they could also appeal to American cartoon fans and get the She Ra and SU guys to also watch stuff on their platform. A bad decision, though yeah there is a reason why they aren't making more shows like that and are just focusing on licensing and being on the production committee for other shows. Over the last few years, especially, they have been more involved in directly funding shows. CR has funded numerous of notable anime like Blue Lock, Odd Taxi, Bungo Stray Dogs, Skip To Loafer, Classroom of the Elite, Somali and the Forest Spirit, Solo Leveling, Shangri La Frontier directly as a member of the production committee. They are funding Wistoria: Wand and Sword, Bye Bye Earth, Twilight Out of Focus and a few others this season. |
BilboBaggins365Jul 11, 4:06 PM
Zakatsuki_ said: it sells REALLY GOOD in Japan Yes, I know, just couldn't bother to dig this data, why people assume I was ironic? I literally think that the anime part of the franchise will survive in a massive anime market implosion. Zakatsuki_ said: seems like a mystery It combines sport, idol culture, pretty girls and horse fetish...apparently the japanese otakus are into that unlike the western ones. This is my hypothesis - the anime producers will prioritise their home market, so an eventual cut down wouldn't be a good thing for us. |
Reply to RobertBobert
@DX_impulse They create these works, they target them, and they are the main audience that reads them. You may arrogantly define yourself as superior to the original authors, publications, and audiences of your favorite works, but you simply cannot ignore it. Otherwise, you'll act like those weirdos from shonen fandom who first tweet about how "men are the main problem with shonen anime" and then wonder why everyone makes fun of them. These works really fetishize women no less than harems or rom-coms, and someones even more so. This won't change even if you conveniently decide to ignore the Japanese and Western fandom/market for such titles.
Vibes and other "implications" are not an argument for me. With the same logic, I can call any Nakama power titles harems, because many of them are built on the concept “MC is the life of the party and has many friends.” Although this has long served as a loophole for declaring non-romantic school shows as "yuri/BL harems" by shippers. However, if you unironically use the formulation “I believe that you have no evidence” instead of some reasonable “you have not given me evidence”, this dialogue is meaningless in advance. You simply see what you want to see. Ignoring even the peak popularity of your favorite genres, because it prevents you from complaining about the dominance of your unloved ones. Holy simplicity.
@ColourWheel There have always been vocal haters or fans. For example, one of my childhood friends was that “all anime is porn for perverts” guy and would constantly see ecchi in any anime I mentioned. Although, ironically, he didn't hate Japanese games, since being an old gamer he was just used to them, lmao.
Vibes and other "implications" are not an argument for me. With the same logic, I can call any Nakama power titles harems, because many of them are built on the concept “MC is the life of the party and has many friends.” Although this has long served as a loophole for declaring non-romantic school shows as "yuri/BL harems" by shippers. However, if you unironically use the formulation “I believe that you have no evidence” instead of some reasonable “you have not given me evidence”, this dialogue is meaningless in advance. You simply see what you want to see. Ignoring even the peak popularity of your favorite genres, because it prevents you from complaining about the dominance of your unloved ones. Holy simplicity.
@ColourWheel There have always been vocal haters or fans. For example, one of my childhood friends was that “all anime is porn for perverts” guy and would constantly see ecchi in any anime I mentioned. Although, ironically, he didn't hate Japanese games, since being an old gamer he was just used to them, lmao.
| @RobertBobert you said like they just waste the resources creating their work and then bashing their own work, I dont know why you keep putting some weird words in my mouth like im superior to the original authors while I never think about it. some in the fandom may share the same ideal and some dont, you cannot force them to think to same thing or feel the same thing if you are an author, and for that example (which I would say ridiculous), "oh look! this pink-hair chick is useless, she loves Sasuke but she's so useless, she's always relies on the MC and in the end, she's still useless, even though she did nothing morally wrong", so ppl may have the reason to bias or they just "to swim with the flowing tide" or if im telling you that what you said is even more weird but it's fine, anyway. ppl will always act weird, it's simply the conflict that cannot be avoided. oh, and ... it's truly "Holy simplicity" when your sauce is just "trust me, bro" you cannot prove me wrong with that, harem + isekai genre is the fact that's more popular than my favor genre. @Tropisch pff! bruhh! If you think harem and yuri are the same then you seriously have a problem with your perception. if you're yuri-hater which I did not think one can reach to this level of dumb then we have nothing to say. you can call me "hypocrite" or whatever fuck you want but I have my own standard and Im always proud of my list. so if you lack knowledge, I suggest you visit some of H:SR fandom or Genshin fandom, they always have the right reason to hate harem. |
| Thanks for confirming what I said, always funny how your type can only say "fuck you" when they get called out. And there is no "right reason" to hate something. Just admit you hate harem because it's a guy lead and move on. |
TropischJul 11, 9:27 PM
| "Well, she's flatter than a pancake" -Mimi Alpacas "Woof" -Tobiichi Origami "Are you trying to turn the dormitory into a strip club!?! -Atena Saotome |
| I can't claim to know how healthy anime industry in the western hemisphere is since I don't live there. But from my observation of anime/manga scene in my country, it doesn't feel like the bubble is gonna burst soon. If there is any bubble at all. Anime conventions are being held almost every week in cities across the country, with attendance up to tens of thousands people. Why is this relevant? Because those events generate massive cashflow from merch sales, concert tickets, meet and greets, etc. The profit pie slices go to many pockets. Then there's manga publishers. New manga is regularly released every 1-2 weeks. Not online manga, but physical manga. Not just popular manga, they also publish some obscure manga that you won't find the English version anywhere. Again, common sense dictates that they won't keep doing this if it's not profitable. That's the keyword: profitable. Whatever the doomposters is saying on the internet (and people LOVE doomposting on the internet), I can confidently say that anime/manga industry has never been healthier where I live. |
Reply to Tropisch
Thanks for confirming what I said, always funny how your type can only say "fuck you" when they get called out. And there is no "right reason" to hate something. Just admit you hate harem because it's a guy lead and move on.
| @Tropisch guy lead/girl lead are the same and it's already confirmed up there when I talked about straight/het harem are you blind ?_? |
Reply to DX_impulse
@RobertBobert
you said like they just waste the resources creating their work and then bashing their own work, I dont know why you keep putting some weird words in my mouth like im superior to the original authors while I never think about it.
some in the fandom may share the same ideal and some dont, you cannot force them to think to same thing or feel the same thing if you are an author, and for that example (which I would say ridiculous),
"oh look! this pink-hair chick is useless, she loves Sasuke but she's so useless, she's always relies on the MC and in the end, she's still useless, even though she did nothing morally wrong", so ppl may have the reason to bias or they just "to swim with the flowing tide"
or if im telling you that what you said is even more weird but it's fine, anyway.
ppl will always act weird, it's simply the conflict that cannot be avoided.
oh, and ...
it's truly "Holy simplicity" when your sauce is just "trust me, bro"
you cannot prove me wrong with that, harem + isekai genre is the fact that's more popular than my favor genre.
@Tropisch
pff!
bruhh!
If you think harem and yuri are the same then you seriously have a problem with your perception.
if you're yuri-hater which I did not think one can reach to this level of dumb then we have nothing to say.
you can call me "hypocrite" or whatever fuck you want but I have my own standard and Im always proud of my list.
so if you lack knowledge, I suggest you visit some of H:SR fandom or Genshin fandom, they always have the right reason to hate harem.
you said like they just waste the resources creating their work and then bashing their own work, I dont know why you keep putting some weird words in my mouth like im superior to the original authors while I never think about it.
some in the fandom may share the same ideal and some dont, you cannot force them to think to same thing or feel the same thing if you are an author, and for that example (which I would say ridiculous),
"oh look! this pink-hair chick is useless, she loves Sasuke but she's so useless, she's always relies on the MC and in the end, she's still useless, even though she did nothing morally wrong", so ppl may have the reason to bias or they just "to swim with the flowing tide"
or if im telling you that what you said is even more weird but it's fine, anyway.
ppl will always act weird, it's simply the conflict that cannot be avoided.
oh, and ...
it's truly "Holy simplicity" when your sauce is just "trust me, bro"
you cannot prove me wrong with that, harem + isekai genre is the fact that's more popular than my favor genre.
@Tropisch
pff!
bruhh!
If you think harem and yuri are the same then you seriously have a problem with your perception.
if you're yuri-hater which I did not think one can reach to this level of dumb then we have nothing to say.
you can call me "hypocrite" or whatever fuck you want but I have my own standard and Im always proud of my list.
so if you lack knowledge, I suggest you visit some of H:SR fandom or Genshin fandom, they always have the right reason to hate harem.
| @DX_impulse Criticizing? Biased? What are you speaking about? This is literally how these works are positioned by the native audience and the native people involved. GIrls Zoo, simply because they show the idealistic "zoo-like" lives of female characters. Even the chibi series about the Key characters parodied this. The fact that you have some kind of problem with this or that you idealize the genre more than it really is, the Japanese obviously don’t care. "I don't like your narrative, so you have no evidence to support it" - truly, holy simplicity. But apparently, the huge wave of all-female/yuri bait titles and the almost complete transformation of the original anime into adaptations of the non-existent CGDCT manga is just my hallucination, okay. As well as the fact that all the studios are now busy trying to repeat the success of LikoReko, which was probably also a harem isekai. After all, if studios produce a lot of isekai to fill airtime with mediocre but cheap shows, then this means this is the most popular genre, yes. |
RobertBobertJul 11, 11:30 PM
|
Reply to Tropisch
Thanks for confirming what I said, always funny how your type can only say "fuck you" when they get called out. And there is no "right reason" to hate something. Just admit you hate harem because it's a guy lead and move on.
| @Tropisch This “right reason” is shipping, obviously. The way yuri/BL shippers hate Traveler, especially Aether, and try to convince everyone that any Aether shippers are crazy harem seekers has long been an infamous phenomenon in the fandom of said games. I remember on one site people called it toxic and the shippers literally tried to justify it by saying that "Aether fans are crazy harem seekers who want all the characters to be in his harem" etc. It’s funny that the person who criticizes me for imposing an opinion on the game writes above that we should hate what he doesn’t like Another thing, overstating the popularity and size of a thing to rationalize your complaints about it definitely reminds me of something. |
RobertBobertJul 11, 11:32 PM
|
Reply to RobertBobert
@DX_impulse Criticizing? Biased? What are you speaking about? This is literally how these works are positioned by the native audience and the native people involved. GIrls Zoo, simply because they show the idealistic "zoo-like" lives of female characters. Even the chibi series about the Key characters parodied this. The fact that you have some kind of problem with this or that you idealize the genre more than it really is, the Japanese obviously don’t care.
"I don't like your narrative, so you have no evidence to support it" - truly, holy simplicity. But apparently, the huge wave of all-female/yuri bait titles and the almost complete transformation of the original anime into adaptations of the non-existent CGDCT manga is just my hallucination, okay. As well as the fact that all the studios are now busy trying to repeat the success of LikoReko, which was probably also a harem isekai. After all, if studios produce a lot of isekai to fill airtime with mediocre but cheap shows, then this means this is the most popular genre, yes.
"I don't like your narrative, so you have no evidence to support it" - truly, holy simplicity. But apparently, the huge wave of all-female/yuri bait titles and the almost complete transformation of the original anime into adaptations of the non-existent CGDCT manga is just my hallucination, okay. As well as the fact that all the studios are now busy trying to repeat the success of LikoReko, which was probably also a harem isekai. After all, if studios produce a lot of isekai to fill airtime with mediocre but cheap shows, then this means this is the most popular genre, yes.
| @RobertBobert "girls zoo" or whatever words that describe moe show, CGDCT is technically meaningless to me now. you know, at this point, I should be the one who asks "what're you talking about?" I already proving my point that ppl cannot (or maybe) share the same thoughts, the same opinion. and all you did was force me to change my mind or bias to the same of what Japanese audience thinks, which I already said that "I dont care". and it's based on my taste (or my list), is that right? and since when did it become personal like this? because I triggered you with the word "misogyny" so you have to overcomplicate your phrase to finally realize that you're hallucination which I would have to ... agree with you? |
Reply to DX_impulse
@RobertBobert
"girls zoo" or whatever words that describe moe show, CGDCT is technically meaningless to me now.
you know, at this point, I should be the one who asks "what're you talking about?"
I already proving my point that ppl cannot (or maybe) share the same thoughts, the same opinion.
and all you did was force me to change my mind or bias to the same of what Japanese audience thinks, which I already said that "I dont care".
and it's based on my taste (or my list), is that right?
and since when did it become personal like this?
because I triggered you with the word "misogyny" so you have to overcomplicate your phrase to finally realize that you're hallucination which I would have to ...
agree with you?
"girls zoo" or whatever words that describe moe show, CGDCT is technically meaningless to me now.
you know, at this point, I should be the one who asks "what're you talking about?"
I already proving my point that ppl cannot (or maybe) share the same thoughts, the same opinion.
and all you did was force me to change my mind or bias to the same of what Japanese audience thinks, which I already said that "I dont care".
and it's based on my taste (or my list), is that right?
and since when did it become personal like this?
because I triggered you with the word "misogyny" so you have to overcomplicate your phrase to finally realize that you're hallucination which I would have to ...
agree with you?
| @DX_impulse The problem is that this is not a matter of opinions and tastes, it is a matter of the original positioning of the genre and the attitude of the audience and the people involved in it. I understand that you don't like it and want to dismiss it as just an opinion, but that's the case whether we like the genre or not. |
RobertBobertJul 12, 1:14 AM
|
Reply to Nutella71
@RobertBobert I have no idea how it goes in the manga nor how much the anime adapted, but in the anime by the last episode he decides to stay a girl.
| @Nutella71 So this is a typical gender bender show where the character ultimately decides to accept it regardless of the original circumstances? |
|
MalchikRepaid said: This franchise portrayed the later stage of Japanese economic prosperity (before the epic bubble collapse) when there was a trend for legally-regulated horse-racing gambling. Oooh! A cultured history lesson of sorts. Surely this is why people are liking it. |
MalchikRepaid said: And I commend you for expressing any effort to understand the reason behind it. By that logic Bible Black is a commentary on the specifics how the christian religion is perceived in Japan. |
Reply to Nutella71
@RobertBobert Idk if it's typical, but he decides so because "he wants to hang out with his friends more."
| @Nutella71 his new female friends? |
|
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