fallout45 said: Being labeled a latent criminal by Sibyl in Psycho Pass is just bullshit. Even just thinking about a crime or being a victim of one suddenly makes you a criminal. The scary part is we are already well on our way to having this happen in the real world. What do you think all that social profiling data that's being collected from you will ultimately be used for? Just look at the social credit system China has set up and you can already see we are about a quarter of the way there. |
| Yes, of course. That's why it's a dystopia and kind of the point. |
| Well, that's the point. It reflects a grim, dark future based on advanced technologies that we can already see a glimpse in our reality to come at certain places. |
 |
MeltingSky said: fallout45 said: Being labeled a latent criminal by Sibyl in Psycho Pass is just bullshit. Even just thinking about a crime or being a victim of one suddenly makes you a criminal. The scary part is we are already well on our way to having this happen in the real world. What do you think all that social profiling data that's being collected from you will ultimately be used for? Just look at the social credit system China has set up and you can already see we are about a quarter of the way there. That's what I thought.. Nice to see somebody else think that's the case aswell.. |
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| I thought the whole point was showing how the supposed flawless system is actually pretty damn flawed. The concept isn't even really that outlandish compared to other movies and shows with sci-fi themes. |
MeltingSky said: In my country there's a saying which goes like: "do not bandage your head before getting hit". That's pretty much what we're talking about here on the whole psycho pass ordeal, and you seem to be on board with that: it's wrong to pursue criminals before they even think of committing a crime.The scary part is we are already well on our way to having this happen in the real world. What do you think all that social profiling data that's being collected from you will ultimately be used for? Just look at the social credit system China has set up and you can already see we are about a quarter of the way there. However, you still bandage your head before getting hit when it comes to profiling leading to the social credit system in china. I don't know which country you live in, but just the fact that you can post your opinions without getting censored makes your fears look not well grounded. Imagine censoring the whole western internet, for one. Just saying, take what you want out of this. |
RentNoGirlfriend said: MeltingSky said: In my country there's a saying which goes like: "do not bandage your head before getting hit". That's pretty much what we're talking about here on the whole psycho pass ordeal, and you seem to be on board with that: it's wrong to pursue criminals before they even think of committing a crime.The scary part is we are already well on our way to having this happen in the real world. What do you think all that social profiling data that's being collected from you will ultimately be used for? Just look at the social credit system China has set up and you can already see we are about a quarter of the way there. However, you still bandage your head before getting hit when it comes to profiling leading to the social credit system in china. I don't know which country you live in, but just the fact that you can post your opinions without getting censored makes your fears look not well grounded. Imagine censoring the whole western internet, for one. Just saying, take what you want out of this. Do wear a helmet on your head before getting hit then.. Psycho helmet-Sama Mob psycho reference since we're discussing government conspiracy and cults |
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| Uhh it's even a real thing to judge people based on facial structure in criminology. |
| . |
ryo-san said: That's precisely the meaning of the saying: it's pointless to bandage your head for a hit which might not come. Do something useful instead.Do wear a helmet on your head before getting hit then.. |
| This is like calling the science fiction genre bullshit. |
 |
| It's like George Orwell's 1984. Of course it's utter BS to live in such a society. nobody would want that, right? Yet... parts of it are already heavily implemented in today's society. Like beforementioned China's credit system. Same thing happens with Psycho Pass. It represents a dystopia, a future we, as species, might end up if we do not act appropiately when the time arises & action is needed. That's why the whole BS way of thinking "I don't care about privacy, I don't have anything to hide. I'm innocent!' is a pretty dangerous thought & also pretty immature from the person who utters such nonsense. Clearly such person does not realise the depths of the human psyche & has never consumed good books that should have been mandatory during their school life. The great thing about these sci-fi media with focus on dystopia, is the fact that it is ultimately food for thought (= brainfood). Now sadly this goes 2 ways. Either you think about what you can do to prevent it OR what you can do to accelerate and achieve such dystopian situation. It all depends on where you stand. Are you just an Average Joe OR are you on the far other side of the spectrum? *cough Rothschild cough* ... Here's a cool analogy -> You know how to boil a frog? Answer: Put the frog in a pot with cold water and just gradually raise the temperature. If you were to put a frog in a pot with hot water, the frog would just jump out of it immediately. What's the analogy? I don't get it... Well... YOU are the frog. The government is the pot, the watertemperature are the laws assaulting YOUR freedom and the person that wants to cook the frog is 'unknown' AKA the elites AKA *go google it yourself, before censorship erases all evidences* I don't want to suffer an unfortunate death for speaking out, you know? :D |
| Kingdom Come Deliverance II GOTY 2025 Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 is another worthy GOTY contender I tip my fedora to Sandfall Interactive, excellent debut gentlemen! If digital buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing |
| oh now I get it, that social credit system reference is just shitposting. Sorry I'm not very bright |
RentNoGirlfriend said: MeltingSky said: In my country there's a saying which goes like: "do not bandage your head before getting hit". That's pretty much what we're talking about here on the whole psycho pass ordeal, and you seem to be on board with that: it's wrong to pursue criminals before they even think of committing a crime.The scary part is we are already well on our way to having this happen in the real world. What do you think all that social profiling data that's being collected from you will ultimately be used for? Just look at the social credit system China has set up and you can already see we are about a quarter of the way there. However, you still bandage your head before getting hit when it comes to profiling leading to the social credit system in China. I don't know which country you live in, but just the fact that you can post your opinions without getting censored makes your fears look not well-grounded. Imagine censoring the whole western internet, for one. Just saying, take what you want out of this. I can express these opinions publically without the threat of repercussions, precisely because I live in the West, but it is silly to believe that once the technology exists to censor and control public opinion over the entire internet that it won't eventually be used. It's the reason China is deploying apps like Tic Tok and is actively buying up all the big social media platforms here in the West. It's like Alfred Nobel's silly idea that his invention of high explosives (dynamite) was such a ghastly weapon that it would never see use in war. Similar things were suggested by many thinkers when it came to various chemical weapons and atomic bombs. If a technology exists that can be used to exert power over others, human history has shown us time and again that it is not a matter if, but when it will get used. Right now this profiling information technology is in its early stages, but it is being actively and successfully developed and implemented in China and the first steps to integrating it with AI are already being taken. In the West, we are seeing this same technology being developed by big business and advertisers more so than the state. Of all the things to incorporate AI into, psychologically profiling human beings is ultimately one of the most concerning when it comes to its uses. The only thing that really made a 1982-style all-powerful surveillance state a fantasy that heads of state could only dream about was the impossible amount of manpower required. AI solves that manpower problem. Even scarier, it puts machines in charge of determining who is a threat or not, or who is a good citizen or not. |
MeltingSkyApr 17, 2023 2:37 PM
| It didn't even take 1 episode for the anime to show the shortcomings of the system. If anything it should have done a better job promoting it at the beginning. |
| It's a dystopian setting, so that's the point. And according to Twitter, some people are latent criminals for liking certain things in anime, so it's not too unrealistic. |
MeltingSky said: Well then you probably have some info which I'm not aware of, last time I checked every single chinese AI were either rip offs or just smokescreens. If you know of actual functional advanced AI coming from china please let me know because my google algorythm keeps feeding me the usual results.I can express these opinions publically without the threat of repercussions, precisely because I live in the West, but it is silly to believe that once the technology exists to censor and control public opinion over the entire internet that it won't eventually be used. It's the reason China is deploying apps like Tic Tok and is actively buying up all the big social media platforms here in the West. It's like Alfred Nobel's silly idea that his invention of high explosives (dynamite) was such a ghastly weapon that it would never see use in war. Similar things were suggested by many thinkers when it came to various chemical weapons and atomic bombs. If a technology exists that can be used to exert power over others, human history has shown us time and again that it is not a matter if, but when it will get used. Right now this profiling information technology is in its early stages, but it is being actively and successfully developed and implemented in China and the first steps to integrating it with AI are already being taken. In the West, we are seeing this same technology being developed by big business and advertisers more so than the state. Of all the things to incorporate AI into, psychologically profiling human beings is ultimately one of the most concerning when it comes to its uses. The only thing that really made a 1982-style all-powerful surveillance state a fantasy that heads of state could only dream about was the impossible amount of manpower required. AI solves that manpower problem. Even scarier, it puts machines in charge of determining who is a threat or not, or who is a good citizen or not. As for the west, democracies have all sorts of checks and balances that prevent authoritarian drifts, and even if something akin to the social credit system was to be implemented, you'd still need, for instance, someone willing to enforce it. This isn't something which can happen overnight without any chance to stop the process, so fear not. |
RentNoGirlfriend said: MeltingSky said: Well then you probably have some info which I'm not aware of, last time I checked every single chinese AI were either rip offs or just smokescreens. If you know of actual functional advanced AI coming from china please let me know because my google algorythm keeps feeding me the usual results.I can express these opinions publically without the threat of repercussions, precisely because I live in the West, but it is silly to believe that once the technology exists to censor and control public opinion over the entire internet that it won't eventually be used. It's the reason China is deploying apps like Tic Tok and is actively buying up all the big social media platforms here in the West. It's like Alfred Nobel's silly idea that his invention of high explosives (dynamite) was such a ghastly weapon that it would never see use in war. Similar things were suggested by many thinkers when it came to various chemical weapons and atomic bombs. If a technology exists that can be used to exert power over others, human history has shown us time and again that it is not a matter if, but when it will get used. Right now this profiling information technology is in its early stages, but it is being actively and successfully developed and implemented in China and the first steps to integrating it with AI are already being taken. In the West, we are seeing this same technology being developed by big business and advertisers more so than the state. Of all the things to incorporate AI into, psychologically profiling human beings is ultimately one of the most concerning when it comes to its uses. The only thing that really made a 1982-style all-powerful surveillance state a fantasy that heads of state could only dream about was the impossible amount of manpower required. AI solves that manpower problem. Even scarier, it puts machines in charge of determining who is a threat or not, or who is a good citizen or not. As for the west, democracies have all sorts of checks and balances that prevent authoritarian drifts, and even if something akin to the social credit system was to be implemented, you'd still need, for instance, someone willing to enforce it. This isn't something which can happen overnight without any chance to stop the process, so fear not. You do realize that the google algorithm you just used is itself a sort of limited application of AI. I suppose it depends on how you define AI. Anyway, it doesn't matter if it's "ripped off" or not. Once the genie is out of the bottle there is no putting it back. I mean just look at nukes for example. The atomic bomb was the most insanely heavily guarded secret on the planet yet within 5 short years of its invention it was ripped off and replicated by other nations. As for China's development of AI here is a quick article on the subject from the Harvard Business Review. Is China Emerging as the Global Leader in AI? For those people who are still thinking that AI is some far away future development rather than an ongoing technological revolution, you should sit down and play with ChatGPT4 sometime. The thing was able to pass the Bar Exam, create waifus with distinct personalities, troll 4chan, write poetry, pass the SAT, various AP exams, the Advanced Sommelier exam, US Medical Licensing Exam, the Turing test, and the list just goes on and on. Keep in mind this is AI in its infancy. This is the starting line, not the finish. |
MeltingSkyApr 17, 2023 4:46 PM
MeltingSky said: My argument is that even if china had a working AI, that still doesn't mean the west risks an authoritarian drift like you were suggesting. I don't mind talking about what china actually has in terms of AI, but please realize that now you're focusing all of your attention on a minor remark disregarding my main point.You do realize that the google algorithm you just used is itself a sort of limited application of AI. I suppose it depends on how you define AI. Anyway, it doesn't matter if it's "ripped off" or not. Once the genie is out of the bottle there is no putting it back. I mean just look at nukes for example. The atomic bomb was the most insanely heavily guarded secret on the planet yet within 5 short years of its invention it was ripped off and replicated by other nations. As for China's development of AI here is a quick article on the subject from the Harvard Business Review. Is China Emerging as the Global Leader in AI? One problem with ripping off AI is that the ccp cannot just run chat gpt with a differend gui. They simply can't run the risk of their rip off feeding people info on tienanmen square massacre or whatever, they need an AI which keeps up with the ever changing narrative of the party. They need to build their own platform. Moreover they didn't even avoid issues with language. For instance for the past few weeks chinese people were having fun with Ernie AI (which is baidu's AI, which is basically a rip off of stable diffusion) because it works by machine translating the chinese input into english, giving rise to all sorts of ridiculous results like:  The request was: 给我画一个车水马龙的街道 - draw me a busy street, however busy here is 水马龙 literally water-horse-dragon. And that's what the AI drew. And this is just the first example I had available, I could show you more if you want. By now I trust you get my point. As for that harvard article, I'd wager you didn't even read it. The reason why I asked if you had any info on actual functional advanced AI coming from china is because I'm already aware of the inflated numbers the party puts out. If you take everything chinese state media and universities say at face value they're always the best in the world, too bad this doesn't really translate to anything practical. Yes, I know it's harvard, but their sources are tsinghua university and gov.cn with no trace of skepticism whatsoever. Meanwhile as far as I know everytime a big company (like huawei) presents their brand new AI to the world it's always a hecking embarrasment. |
RentNoGirlfriend said: MeltingSky said: My argument is that even if china had a working AI, that still doesn't mean the west risks an authoritarian drift like you were suggesting. I don't mind talking about what china actually has in terms of AI, but please realize that now you're focusing all of your attention on a minor remark disregarding my main point.You do realize that the google algorithm you just used is itself a sort of limited application of AI. I suppose it depends on how you define AI. Anyway, it doesn't matter if it's "ripped off" or not. Once the genie is out of the bottle there is no putting it back. I mean just look at nukes for example. The atomic bomb was the most insanely heavily guarded secret on the planet yet within 5 short years of its invention it was ripped off and replicated by other nations. As for China's development of AI here is a quick article on the subject from the Harvard Business Review. Is China Emerging as the Global Leader in AI? One problem with ripping off AI is that the ccp cannot just run chat gpt with a differend gui. They simply can't run the risk of their rip off feeding people info on tienanmen square massacre or whatever, they need an AI which keeps up with the ever changing narrative of the party. They need to build their own platform. Moreover they didn't even avoid issues with language. For instance for the past few weeks chinese people were having fun with Ernie AI (which is baidu's AI, which is basically a rip off of stable diffusion) because it works by machine translating the chinese input into english, giving rise to all sorts of ridiculous results like: The request was: 给我画一个车水马龙的街道 - draw me a busy street, however busy here is 水马龙 literally water-horse-dragon. And that's what the AI drew. And this is just the first example I had available, I could show you more if you want. By now I trust you get my point. As for that harvard article, I'd wager you didn't even read it. The reason why I asked if you had any info on actual functional advanced AI coming from china is because I'm already aware of the inflated numbers the party puts out. If you take everything chinese state media and universities say at face value they're always the best in the world, too bad this doesn't really translate to anything practical. Yes, I know it's harvard, but their sources are tsinghua university and gov.cn with no trace of skepticism whatsoever. Meanwhile as far as I know everytime a big company (like huawei) presents their brand new AI to the world it's always a hecking embarrasment. Yes, I did read the Harvard Business Review article and in summary, it basically stated that yes, China has rapidly caught up to become one of the world leaders in AI and implied they did so basically via heavily government-backed industrial espionage and backing of the industry. It sourced its information from several university professors who are experts in this field both stateside and from across the ocean. As I said, whatever the West has the Chinese will steal in a matter of months when it comes to software. It doesn't matter who invents it Of all the technologies to steal, software is the most trivial since it literally doesn't even need to be physically stolen or manufactured. As for authoritarian drift, that has been quite well documented and ongoing for over a decade now. There is a reason the USA tumbled dozens of places down the international freedom index in the last 20 years and don't even get me started on how bad things have gotten in Russia. The USA has the largest number of our own citizens locked up in a cage of any nation on the planet that has ever existed. Think about that. This includes messed-up places like China, North Korea, Russia, Islamic Terrorist States etc. All three of the world's great powers, China, Russia and the USA, are growing more authoritarian. All three are also growing increasingly less stable and increasingly more capable of using technologically backed social engineering to better control their own people. Russia and China are already actively using these tools on their own populaces and are doing everything they can to spread that influence to the West and have already made serious inroads in doing so. The easiest way to control people is to control the information they consume. |
MeltingSky said: It took me two seconds of googling to find out that while it's true that there had been a slow decline in the average global human freedom rating for years, the actual noticeable drop happened in 2020. I didn't even wonder why. Yes, I did read the Harvard Business Review article and in summary, it basically stated that yes, China has rapidly caught up to become one of the world leaders in AI and implied they did so basically via heavily government-backed industrial espionage and backing of the industry. It sourced its information from several university professors who are experts in this field both stateside and from across the ocean. As I said, whatever the West has the Chinese will steal in a matter of months when it comes to software. It doesn't matter who invents it Of all the technologies to steal, software is the most trivial since it literally doesn't even need to be physically stolen or manufactured. As for authoritarian drift, that has been quite well documented and ongoing for over a decade now. There is a reason the USA tumbled dozens of places down the international freedom index in the last 20 years and don't even get me started on how bad things have gotten in Russia. The USA has the largest number of our own citizens locked up in a cage of any nation on the planet that has ever existed. Think about that. This includes messed-up places like China, North Korea, Russia, Islamic Terrorist States etc. All three of the world's great powers, China, Russia and the USA, are growing more authoritarian. All three are also growing increasingly less stable and increasingly more capable of using technologically backed social engineering to better control their own people. Russia and China are already actively using these tools on their own populaces and are doing everything they can to spread that influence to the West and have already made serious inroads in doing so. The easiest way to control people is to control the information they consume. The US in 2020 was ranked 23rd in the human freedom ranking with a personal freedom score of 8.42. Currently it's in the 15th place, with a score of 8.75. Well it turns out that the first 30 ranks are decided by a margin of 0.7, so in that area it's kinda easy to drop down or climb back up depending on how hard the country got hit by covid. Then you focused on one specific issue, namely detentions, comparing the US to countries which you can't get reliable data from, without even trying to address possible alternative (and more reasonable) explanations. Even if the data was reliable, maybe crime is taken more seriously in the US? I don't know, I'd certainly need a bit contrext to interpret the detention ratio before jumping to the authoritarian drift conclusion. And I don't think none of this crossed your mind. Listen, I'm not saying you shouldn't wash your clothes, I'm saying you shouldn't act as if you fell in the swers when all you did was spilling some soup on your pants. It's basically the story of the boy who cried wolf too many times, don't be your own worst enemy. |
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