Foreshadowing = Good writing ?

Dec 12, 2022 9:40 AM

#2

BBloodhound

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Feb 2022

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hell yea it is but I like my anime when they break 4wall

Dec 12, 2022 9:41 AM

#3

Oremonogatari

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Jan 2021

547

yeah, foreshadowing contributes towards a good story, so i would say so. i wouldnt say it makes a story holistically good, but it is one of the many charms of aot.

Dec 12, 2022 9:57 AM

#4

bruhmomentum11

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May 2021

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Not necessarily, and I find it impossible that everything was planned from the beginning, as seen from the massive retcons the story suffered

Dec 12, 2022 10:30 AM

#5

Beef_file

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Feb 2022

117

Yes. foreshadowing usually makes writing better.

Foreshadowing is world-building but out of sight of our eyes. It increases immersion, gives us the feeling that things have been going in this world even when we are not watching. And good world-building can never be bad.

It's also about leaving the clues that can really alleviate the experience on a re-watch, seeing how everything had been planned. Some things which were just intriguing in our first watch now seem like blatant reveals of what was to come.

Beef_fileDec 12, 2022 10:34 AM

Dec 12, 2022 10:38 AM

#6

dk107_

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Jul 2021

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Beef_file said:
Yes. foreshadowing usually makes writing better.

Foreshadowing is world-building but out of sight of our eyes. It increases immersion, gives us the feeling that things have been going in this world even when we are not watching. And good world-building can never be bad.

It's also about leaving the clues that can really alleviate the experience on a re-watch, seeing how everything had been planned. Some things which were just intriguing in our first watch now seem like blatant reveals of what was to come.

Agreed and AoT does all of it perfectly. That is the sole reason for which it has such a high rewatch/reread value and one can always pick up the already existing hints/clues and subtle details, which they might have missed during the first watch/first read through.

Dec 12, 2022 10:42 AM

#7

Nole2k

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Dec 2020

20

Yes, believe or not having your story all tie together well makes the story cohesive and feel good

Dec 12, 2022 10:43 AM

#8

dk107_

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Jul 2021

1745

Of course foreshadowing is an important aspect of a story and its writing and AoT does that brilliantly.

Isayama is an absolute genius who had planned every detail and plot point right from the beginning and had presented that in his work through his masterful story telling ability and amazing panelling.
Infact it's the foreshadowing element which also helped to maintain that mystery vibe about the Titans origins and reveals throughout the first three seasons. Post ts wrapped up those points alongside the addition of some new stuff.

Plus foreshadowing isn't the only amazing thing about AoT. There are tons of plot twists & reveals, symbolisms,callbacks,themes and parallels as well which enhance the reader's experience and also play a vital role in the plot.

dk107_Dec 12, 2022 10:51 AM

Dec 12, 2022 10:43 AM

#9

ktg

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It only works if it's hard to find out something. That's why foreshadowing or more like the mystery part failed in SnK. For example it was pretty obvious who were the Colossal and Armored titans. The hints were so obvious.

Dec 12, 2022 11:28 AM

#10

removed-user

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My answer would be like this:

A bad story can have good foreshadowing
A good one can have no foreshadowing (because it doesn't need it)
A good foreshadowing almost always improves a story, but a story to have good writing doesn't need foreshadowing, it's always a plus

Dec 12, 2022 11:35 AM

#11

cornpuffs

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Jan 2022

39

Execution matters as well. I feel aot didn't do a good job with certain plot points and characters.

Dec 12, 2022 11:47 AM

#12

Piromysl

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13552

Isayama managed to plan entire story before serialization even started and managed to maintain it's consistency without any significant plot holes. This requires serious talent.
Also, AOT has probably the best foreshadowing I've ever seen. Second only to Chainsaw Man.

I wouldn't say, that foreshadowing is an equivalent to good writing by itself, but is at least a sign of it. It shows, that author thinks into the future and is committed to the story.

PiromyslDec 12, 2022 12:26 PM

Dec 12, 2022 12:06 PM

#13

ShinoAlter

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Feb 2019

115

Foreshadowing doesn’t equal good story, but it definitely helps the quality. That is why the first 2 seasons were mid and then 3rd season was great with the peak at the end of the 2nd part. 4th season managed to make writing better, and when the foreshadow part happened in the 2nd part of 4th season, it was one of the best moments in anime history.

mlem

Also read Ookami Shounen wa Kyou mo Uso wo Kasaneru (Bless Botan)

Dec 12, 2022 12:17 PM

#14

ReganAlv

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Mar 2022

88

Yes and no. Foreshadowing and pre-planning definitely boost the quality of a story but if the story is crap there is nothing foreshadowing can do to save it. On the other hand bad writers usually fail at doing proper foreshadowing and either give too much away or don’t foreshadowing anything so if a story has excellent foreshadowing it at lest shows the author is good (most of the time).

Dec 12, 2022 12:21 PM

#15

elderonn

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Feb 2021

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I don’t believe foreshadowing necessarily determines if the writing is good or not. It is more so that stories that have been carefully constructed and planned out from the beginning have more often than not other qualities that do determine good writing.

That said there are different kinds of foreshadowings, one that the writer plants a “seed” and uses it on a later date, for example one piece. They don’t necessarily plan everything but set up different kinds of plot devices or plot points that they use on a later date.

The other kind is the traditional murder mystery foreshadowing. This kind of foreshadowing is planned out carefully from the beginning with the whole plot. Writers that use this kind of foreshadowing often than not manage to develop beautiful stories that are very much of quality.

But the foreshadowing itself doesn’t determine quality.

Dec 12, 2022 12:21 PM

#16

ReganAlv

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Mar 2022

88

This is similar to asking if character arcs = good writing. It all depends on execution not the writing element itself. “Good character arcs = good writing” and “good foreshadowing = good writing”

Dec 12, 2022 12:32 PM

#17

KneelBeforeMe

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No. Good writing will often use foreshadowing, but using foreshadowing doesn't mean you wrote anything good to begin with especially if the execution sucked.

AOT is well-written in parts, but uses foreshadowing as a crutch and bends the rules of its world in order to come to a specific and unbelievable conclusion.

Dec 12, 2022 12:58 PM

#18

TheMaXIM

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Dec 2021

279

Kind of, foreshadowing is the proof of a already known story that won't be changed in the future, it's the proof of good writing cause mostly perfect stories are made and then published, they aren't changed in the course of being published, that happens to shounens mostly cause they have a lot of eps.

Dec 12, 2022 1:13 PM

#19

Khalil04

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ktg said:
It only works if it's hard to find out something. That's why foreshadowing or more like the mystery part failed in SnK. For example it was pretty obvious who were the Colossal and Armored titans. The hints were so obvious.

95% of people who watched AOT got surprised when they revealed themselves in S2 , it definitely didn't fail with this at all

Dec 12, 2022 1:33 PM

#20

ryzxgum

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Apr 2022

7877

it's a contributing factor

Dec 12, 2022 1:47 PM

#21

Broximeuh

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Jul 2022

43

Foreshadowing does not make a plot better because it is not part of the plot but part of storytelling. So while hints and foreshadowing are great tools in storytelling, they do not make a story good. A bad plot with good foreshadowing is still a bad plot. So my take is foreshadowing is writing done good, though not essential, but it does not make a bad plot better.

Dec 12, 2022 1:54 PM

#22

-Ibaad-

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May 2022

5

Although it can certainly enhance the writing, it usually depends on the story itself. Subtle foreshadowing also tends to be very useful and in the case of Aot it makes the story better than it already is

Dec 12, 2022 2:05 PM

#23

LordSozin

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Jul 2019

4560

Isayama's good at showing parallels of characters, motifs, and some mysteries and foreshowing. The mysteries and foreshadowing were really at their best and most prominent for the majority of the manga before the time skip. They were also huge parallels representing different themes and ideas that Isyama had. After that, IMO, Isayama shifted the story and relied heavily on keeping the audience in the dark. Isayama's focus on characterizations wasn't that great due to the drastic changes in characters and the setting. Especially in Eren. Furthermore, Isayama isn't that great at character writing either. Only a few ever stood out and the rest are just horse shit. I think, well, in some chapters in the post-time skip, it worked well, but for the majority, it just did not. The ending and the conclusion are especially contentious. An ending that I personally felt betrayed from what he originally was going for.

Well, Isayama even admitted he changed his conclusion to "fit" the popularity of the series.

-[ ~♫~ ll Credit ]-

Dec 12, 2022 4:35 PM

#24

HD600-Enjoyer

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Nov 2019

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Khalil04 said:

ktg said:
It only works if it's hard to find out something. That's why foreshadowing or more like the mystery part failed in SnK. For example it was pretty obvious who were the Colossal and Armored titans. The hints were so obvious.

95% of people who watched AOT got surprised when they revealed themselves in S2 , it definitely didn't fail with this at all

Frfr it was a great reveal the whole show coming together in recent seasons was very cool as well I liked the time travel / showing up in the past aspect as well

Dec 12, 2022 6:34 PM

#25

BP3

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May 2021

358

foreshadowing is one of my favorite aspects of story writing lol so I'm biased but yeah I definitely think it improves aot

Dec 12, 2022 6:40 PM

#26

raceraot

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Nov 2019

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AyanoKiyo767 said:
I saw/read a lot of AoT Analysis on Internet.

Some say AoT follows Chekhov's Gun principle

Some say everything in AoT was planned from the beginning.
some say Aot connected all the dots that was established in the previous season in a satisfying way.

What do you think?
Is foreshadowing = Good writing?

Yeah, if the author knows what's up before the ending, a good foreshadowed story is good, as long as it's not too on the nose.

Dec 12, 2022 7:58 PM

#27

mason_black

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Dec 2021

159

i like foreshadowing so yea

"Tits don't make the woman. It's the ass." - Darx

Dec 12, 2022 8:01 PM

#28

Nehal_kun

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Sep 2022

546

ktg said:
It only works if it's hard to find out something. That's why foreshadowing or more like the mystery part failed in SnK. For example it was pretty obvious who were the Colossal and Armored titans. The hints were so obvious.

you either got spoilers or you are an alien 👽
because the identify if armoured titan and collosal titan were not obvious at all.

Dec 12, 2022 9:40 PM

#29

dk107_

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DoctorBryce said:

Khalil04 said:
95% of people who watched AOT got surprised when they revealed themselves in S2 , it definitely didn't fail with this at all

Frfr it was a great reveal the whole show coming together in recent seasons was very cool as well I liked the time travel / showing up in the past aspect as well

There isn't no time travel in AoT. Can you even see a TT tag ? (for example just like there is one in Steins Gate)

Dec 13, 2022 12:41 AM

#30

_weyhxx

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Jun 2019

267

yeah, because it shows how much thought was put into the story and how every little detail is important.

Dec 13, 2022 1:20 AM

#31

ktg

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2053

Khalil04 said:

ktg said:
It only works if it's hard to find out something. That's why foreshadowing or more like the mystery part failed in SnK. For example it was pretty obvious who were the Colossal and Armored titans. The hints were so obvious.

95% of people who watched AOT got surprised when they revealed themselves in S2 , it definitely didn't fail with this at all

People got surprised when it turned out that Marley exists, which wasn't foreshadowed. So they would be surprised by anything even something that's not a foreshadowed moment. If someone wants a good mystery, then they won't watch SnK, they would choose, for example, Kubikiri Cycle.

Nehal_kun said:

ktg said:
It only works if it's hard to find out something. That's why foreshadowing or more like the mystery part failed in SnK. For example it was pretty obvious who were the Colossal and Armored titans. The hints were so obvious.

you either got spoilers or you are an alien 👽
because the identify if armoured titan and collosal titan were not obvious at all.

No, more like who didn't realize this are blind or idiot.
The Armored titan and actually the Female titan look like their owner. That's why it was never a mystery. And if you know who is the Armored titan, then the colossal is pretty obvious. But it's not just that the giveaway moment is actually when the Female Titan grabbed Reiner and after he got released, the Female titan was looking at her hand like something was left there.
This moment was obvious because we got a relatively long pause when the Female titan was looking at her hand and then "somehow" she changed course and headed other way.

Yes, if someone is brainless, then they won't figure it out. A good foreshadowing is when you CAN figure out, but it is still HARD to figure out. That's why Kubikiri Cycle is one of the best detective anime. You can figure out the whole mystery and the end of the anime you would still get a twist.

Dec 13, 2022 1:33 AM

#32

Nehal_kun

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Sep 2022

546

ktg said:

Khalil04 said:

95% of people who watched AOT got surprised when they revealed themselves in S2 , it definitely didn't fail with this at all

People got surprised when it turned out that Marley exists, which wasn't foreshadowed. So they would be surprised by anything even something that's not a foreshadowed moment. If someone wants a good mystery, then they won't watch SnK, they would choose, for example, Kubikiri Cycle.

Nehal_kun said:

you either got spoilers or you are an alien 👽
because the identify if armoured titan and collosal titan were not obvious at all.

No, more like who didn't realize this are blind or idiot.
The Armored titan and actually the Female titan look like their owner. That's why it was never a mystery. And if you know who is the Armored titan, then the colossal is pretty obvious. But it's not just that the giveaway moment is actually when the Female Titan grabbed Reiner and after he got released, the Female titan was looking at her hand like something was left there.
This moment was obvious because we got a relatively long pause when the Female titan was looking at her hand and then "somehow" she changed course and headed other way.

Yes, if someone is brainless, then they won't figure it out. A good foreshadowing is when you CAN figure out, but it is still HARD to figure out. That's why Kubikiri Cycle is one of the best detective anime. You can figure out the whole mystery and the end of the anime you would still get a twist.

as i said
you ARE an alien.
Annie's reveal was the only one predictable.
and now you are being like
"oh i am so smart because i predicted everything.others are so stupid. they couldn't predict a plot twist because they are not alien like me."

just because you alone are an alien doesn't mean everyone else are also.......
Someone so smart like you shouldn't even watch animes dude.
go do science projects and invent new things

Dec 13, 2022 1:33 AM

#33

Khalil04

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Apr 2020

726

ktg said:

Khalil04 said:

95% of people who watched AOT got surprised when they revealed themselves in S2 , it definitely didn't fail with this at all

People got surprised when it turned out that Marley exists, which wasn't foreshadowed. So they would be surprised by anything even something that's not a foreshadowed moment. If someone wants a good mystery, then they won't watch SnK, they would choose, for example, Kubikiri Cycle.

Nehal_kun said:

you either got spoilers or you are an alien 👽
because the identify if armoured titan and collosal titan were not obvious at all.

No, more like who didn't realize this are blind or idiot.
The Armored titan and actually the Female titan look like their owner. That's why it was never a mystery. And if you know who is the Armored titan, then the colossal is pretty obvious. But it's not just that the giveaway moment is actually when the Female Titan grabbed Reiner and after he got released, the Female titan was looking at her hand like something was left there.
This moment was obvious because we got a relatively long pause when the Female titan was looking at her hand and then "somehow" she changed course and headed other way.

Yes, if someone is brainless, then they won't figure it out. A good foreshadowing is when you CAN figure out, but it is still HARD to figure out. That's why Kubikiri Cycle is one of the best detective anime. You can figure out the whole mystery and the end of the anime you would still get a twist.

Stop this Elitist and cringe mentality, it's pathetic
We're not even taking about opinions, it's literally what most of the community experienced
If you didn't get surprised, good for you
But that doesn't mean it was bad or even average at all

Dec 13, 2022 2:47 AM

#34

24846

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Mar 2021

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R u serious? Smartest anime fan 🗿🗿

Of course it does. Bruh this kind of stuff is taught in like 8th grade 💀💀

Dec 13, 2022 9:13 AM

#35

ohpts

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Oct 2022

326

From storytelling to esthetic I just love Hajime Isayama's great work.

Dec 13, 2022 12:05 PM

#36

shash_sama18

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Jun 2021

1217

Foreshadowing isn't easy task when it comes to connecting the dots and all the story points in a sensible manner so definitely it boosts a story

Dec 13, 2022 2:10 PM

#37

Heisenberg_69

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Dec 2019

712

Yes, and that's why I think in the last few chapters something feels off to mr, because everything that was foreshadowed before already happened and everything after that were not very well thought out. It's seems quite clear that Isayama didn't really properly decide what the paths can or cannot do, or even what it is in the first place.

Dec 13, 2022 3:50 PM

#38

ktg

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May 2016

2053

I was expecting this. Answering like kids...

Nehal_kun said:
you ARE an alien.
Annie's reveal was the only one predictable.

Nope. Every titan reveal was easily predictable, because the titans had similar features.
Just because you couldn't recognize that it doesn't mean the majority couldn't either.

Nehal_kun said:
and now you are being like
"oh i am so smart because i predicted everything.others are so stupid. they couldn't predict a plot twist because they are not alien like me."

Again, no and that's my point.
You don't need to be smart to recognize the titan shifters and that's why SnK failed as that regard. If you can't comprehend that my point is exactly the opposite that you are stating here, then don't reply.

Nehal_kun said:
Someone so smart like you shouldn't even watch animes dude.
go do science projects and invent new things

Currently I'm on holiday, but calm down, I will go back to my R&D project in January. So yes, I will "go do science project".

Khalil04 said:
Stop this Elitist and cringe mentality, it's pathetic

Says the one who actually wrote a pathetic and cringe response. Good job.

Khalil04 said:
We're not even taking about opinions, it's literally what most of the community experienced

First, that's true. We are talking about foreshadowing in a show and that has nothing to do with the audience. You couldn't refute me without trying to deflect the original argument.
Second, no, most of the community actually realized that they are the titans. Check out some idiot influencer on youtube where they reacted to do show. Even the stupidest ones recognized them as titan shifters, because most of the people experienced this. Just because you didn't, it doesn't mean the majority or average people didn't.

Khalil04 said:
If you didn't get surprised, good for you
But that doesn't mean it was bad or even average at all

Huhh... Look, it is true for you too that if you can't understand my point, then don't answer, because it's pathetic and you make fun of yourself.
The point in foreshadowing is that you hint something that the audience doesn't realize first that it's a hint and they will be surprised at the twist. You can look it up. This is actually the definition of good foreshadowing:
" In fact, when it is used effectively, many readers may not even realize the significance of an author’s foreshadowing until the end."
If they DOES realize then you screwed up the foreshadowing and you failed. And that's the definition of something being bad.
There are things that SnK did great, but the foreshadowing is not one of them.

And for lastly, here's an example of a good foreshadowing:
"My life were better ended by their hate, than death prorogued, wanting of thy love."
/Romeo from Romeo and Juliet/
No one actually realized that Romeo's fate.

Dec 13, 2022 4:40 PM

#39

Nehal_kun

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Sep 2022

546

ktg said:
I was expecting this. Answering like kids...