Eren is lying to you

nhl2004 said:
Im sure a lot of you noticed this bit of dialogue from Gabi which goes something like, "If he wants to save Paradis, he doesnt need to kill everyone, he could just destroy all of the world's military" and that hit a nail on my head.

Of course.

There's simply no logical need to go that far. Obviously doing even a partial Rumbling would claim a lot of life but I doubt Eren even needs to kill 5% of humanity to fill the heart of every non eldian on earth with mortal dread. He could beat the world's army and pull up hundred's of thousands of titans right on the borders of every nation and they'd gladly surrender and join the New Eldian Empire. Even the cycle of hatred could've been stopped so long as the Eldians were just to their subjects.

So the question is, why the omnicide? His actions dont even seem antiheroic since an antihero is someone who has no choice but to do morally questionable things for the greater good.

Take Kiritsugu Emiya from Fate Zero as an example. He tried to avoid bloodshed as much as possible but wouldnt hesitate to kill loved ones if he had no other choice. Thats an antihero.

But if someone kills billions of people for a reason like "To save my nation/friends", even though they can saved with way less bloodshed, forget about being an antihero, he is a psychotic monster.

Which is what Eren has become now.


Now, one might say, "But he loves his friends, he has shown multiple times that he cares for them, so he isnt a complete psychopath, right?"

And they would be wrong. Maniacs and psychopaths have shown time and again that they too may feel great empathy for those close to them. Eren is like that. He fully understands that these people did nothing wrong and yet he simply cannot bring himself to care for the nameless and faceless masses of screaming men, women and children he is about to slaughter. Nonetheless, he feels a deep love for those he has spent time with and he genuinely cares for the well being and futures of those people. Its a contradiction surely, but an all too human one.



He is probably lying to us, the audience, his friends, all eldians, and even himself. Most probably his rage and lust for "freedom" have blinded him to tons of other ways this could've been done, all so that he can only see this one blood-soaked path that his heart yearns for.

He will kill indiscriminately and he would do it saying things like, "There was no other way" "I am doing it all for your sakes" After all, it is not uncommon for those who know profound love and profound malice to use one to justify the other to both themselves and to others, especially if both are equally genuine.



From an early age he has believed the world to be his birth right. That he could go anywhere he wanted, see whatever there was to be seen and nobody would be there to lift a finger to stop him. He pushed himself this far, sustained himself for so long on the thought that "Freedom awaits beyond the walls, all I have to is kill the titans"

He must feel cheated. That the world he had believed to be his birthright has been stolen from him. He could be feeling an "abstract lust" (which fyi is the name of his character song) for something he has never truly possessed.

No, Eren isnt some fascist Eldian Supremacist. That would be Floch. Eren never showed any hatred for other races of humans, nor does he love the idea of an Empire, cause if he did, he would have loved to subjugate non Eldians like they did in the days of the Old Eldian Empire.

To put it simply, Eren Yeager is a rebel who cannot accept the world as it is, a maniac who would reject all of existence if it were contrary to his vision, and a tyrant who would whimsically trample over all that he finds disagreeable.



But above all, Eren Yeager is a case study of how trauma can warp innocent children, and how those children can grow up to become adults, who, if given the means, would only cause more trauma. This is something that is painfully true, even in our world.

Eren and any real life person who resembles him should not be loved. They shouldnt be hated either. However, they deserve to be understood, pitied even.

For they were once the same as us, and had things gone differently, we would have been the same as them.


End

Goated_Weeb526 said:

Bro.... you should read the manga before writing such a long paragraph about all this(I read the whole paragraph, fyi)...
The manga explains everything.....
But still, Nice character analysis👍😁

iLuvCoffee said:
Oh my, didn't realize a fictional character was lying to me, thank you for opening my eyes!

(On a more serious note tho, I'm certainly sure Eren is not considered an anti-hero but rather an anti-villain, someone who does immoral, disastrous, and other kinds of deed that may be called evil or villainous. A maniac, a psychopath. But to them, it's the only choice for the greater good, in Eren's case, he thinks it's the best for his friends on Paradis. Another example would be Thanos, I shouldn't explain why.)

Eitherway y'all should check out this novel called Eternal Champion, b̶a̶s̶i̶c̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶I̶s̶a̶y̶a̶m̶a̶ ̶g̶o̶t̶ ̶l̶e̶g̶i̶t̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶k̶e̶y̶ ̶p̶l̶o̶t̶ ̶e̶l̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶l̶i̶t̶e̶r̶a̶r̶y̶ ̶d̶e̶v̶i̶c̶e̶s̶.̶ ̶

TheFounder131 said:
⟩eren destroys military bases

»2000 years of bloodshed, hatred disappears just like that.
»Now people will "gladly" surrender and will join hands with eldian empire.

Absolutely Mind blowing thread.

Emiya didn't lived in a racist world like aot's.

nhl2004 said:




You couldnt be more wrong. Read through the entire plot analysis of the Eternal Champion and the MC does not remotely resemble Eren personality or goals wise . The plots do not match up either and the central message couldnt be any different. . The only similarity was between the races "Eldian" and "Eldren" and the power of the "titans" and the "ancient war machines" and the the conflict between humanity and the eldians/eldren. How this conflict is portrayed and tackled and how the characters perceive it all are completely different. But of course, its natural to use anything and everything to justify your hate for a piece of fiction, as toxic weebs do

If anything, the only anime I know (if u consider it to be one) that matches with the Eternal Champion is Avatar the Last Airbender, though EC is dark AF while Avatar is for kids

And did I mention that you got it wrong with Eren too? It isnt as simple as "its the best for my friends" ....... obviously u didnt read much of the original post i wrote but thats understandable given it was practically novel sized and numbskulls hardly like to read. I suspect you didnt even read the Eternal Champion, just saw the trivial commonalities at Titanfolk or some place

Fax001s said:
I would put a spoiler warning because you are also indirectly mentioning chapter 131 and this video

nhl2004 said:


I know nothing about Chapter 131 at the moment and haven't watched this video eventho it did pop in my reccomendations a couple times........

nhl2004 said:
Im sure a lot of you noticed this bit of dialogue from Gabi which goes something like, "If he wants to save Paradis, he doesnt need to kill everyone, he could just destroy all of the world's military" and that hit a nail on my head.

Of course.

There's simply no logical need to go that far. Obviously doing even a partial Rumbling would claim a lot of life but I doubt Eren even needs to kill 5% of humanity to fill the heart of every non eldian on earth with mortal dread. He could beat the world's army and pull up hundred's of thousands of titans right on the borders of every nation and they'd gladly surrender and join the New Eldian Empire. Even the cycle of hatred could've been stopped so long as the Eldians were just to their subjects.

So the question is, why the omnicide? His actions dont even seem antiheroic since an antihero is someone who has no choice but to do morally questionable things for the greater good.

Take Kiritsugu Emiya from Fate Zero as an example. He tried to avoid bloodshed as much as possible but wouldnt hesitate to kill loved ones if he had no other choice. Thats an antihero.

But if someone kills billions of people for a reason like "To save my nation/friends", even though they can saved with way less bloodshed, forget about being an antihero, he is a psychotic monster.

Which is what Eren has become now.


Now, one might say, "But he loves his friends, he has shown multiple times that he cares for them, so he isnt a complete psychopath, right?"

And they would be wrong. Maniacs and psychopaths have shown time and again that they too may feel great empathy for those close to them. Eren is like that. He fully understands that these people did nothing wrong and yet he simply cannot bring himself to care for the nameless and faceless masses of screaming men, women and children he is about to slaughter. Nonetheless, he feels a deep love for those he has spent time with and he genuinely cares for the well being and futures of those people. Its a contradiction surely, but an all too human one.



He is probably lying to us, the audience, his friends, all eldians, and even himself. Most probably his rage and lust for "freedom" have blinded him to tons of other ways this could've been done, all so that he can only see this one blood-soaked path that his heart yearns for.

He will kill indiscriminately and he would do it saying things like, "There was no other way" "I am doing it all for your sakes" After all, it is not uncommon for those who know profound love and profound malice to use one to justify the other to both themselves and to others, especially if both are equally genuine.



From an early age he has believed the world to be his birth right. That he could go anywhere he wanted, see whatever there was to be seen and nobody would be there to lift a finger to stop him. He pushed himself this far, sustained himself for so long on the thought that "Freedom awaits beyond the walls, all I have to is kill the titans"

He must feel cheated. That the world he had believed to be his birthright has been stolen from him. He could be feeling an "abstract lust" (which fyi is the name of his character song) for something he has never truly possessed.

No, Eren isnt some fascist Eldian Supremacist. That would be Floch. Eren never showed any hatred for other races of humans, nor does he love the idea of an Empire, cause if he did, he would have loved to subjugate non Eldians like they did in the days of the Old Eldian Empire.

To put it simply, Eren Yeager is a rebel who cannot accept the world as it is, a maniac who would reject all of existence if it were contrary to his vision, and a tyrant who would whimsically trample over all that he finds disagreeable.



But above all, Eren Yeager is a case study of how trauma can warp innocent children, and how those children can grow up to become adults, who, if given the means, would only cause more trauma. This is something that is painfully true, even in our world.

Eren and any real life person who resembles him should not be loved. They shouldnt be hated either. However, they deserve to be understood, pitied even.

For they were once the same as us, and had things gone differently, we would have been the same as them.


End

TheFounder131 said:
⟩eren destroys military bases

»2000 years of bloodshed, hatred disappears just like that.
»Now people will "gladly" surrender and will join hands with eldian empire.

Absolutely Mind blowing thread.

Emiya didn't lived in a racist world like aot's.

Fuhrer_Wrath said:
You missed a big part of Eren's motivation as pointed out by Jean in the latest episode.
If Eren were to only destroy the Military Bases around the world, he would afterwards maintain a constant army of Collosal Titans.
That would require Historia to inherit the Beast Titan and continue the Cycle of Eldians cannibalizing each other just to survive.
Same with the people who will inherit the Founder Titan from Eren.

And this still does not consider the fact that Eren is not sure if people after him will he able protect Paradis.
What if someone like King Fritz inherits the Founder who surrenders to the outside world. People after Eren cannot see the future the way he sees.

Another problem is that the world technology had already almost caught up with the Titans. Within a few years, if humanity is able to develop Planes. Then Titans become obsolete and Paradis is in danger again.

And lastly .


Also Eren isn't a psychopath. Eren doesn't just empathize with some people. He deeply cares for his friends. He also felt conflicted the first time he found out Annie was Female Titan.
He felt a great deal of guilt when found out what Grisha did to the Reiss Family.
Eren felt so guilty about all of the people who died for him or he couldn't save that he became suicidal.

Now I don't agree with what Eren is doing but his character/motivations is more than just Psychopathy.
Eren was someone who lost everything at just 9 years old. And at just 15 years of age he given the responsibility of Saving all of the humanity within the walls.
And then he saw countless people di for him in that belief. And he was told again and again to abandon his humanity and that any action in the service of protecting humanity is justified.
That is the one thing he learned from people like Erwin, Reiner and Berthdolt.
That there is no right and wrong, and any action to protect your side is justified.

And now Eren is simply acting on that indoctrination. He's doing anything he has to, to ensure safety of his people.
As was said in the Manga itself, Eren is the devil that world created through it's years of blind hatred and indoctrination.
Eren is just and natural product of the endless cycle of violence.

nhl2004 said:

There's simply no logical need to go that far.

nhl2004 said:
"If he wants to save Paradis, he doesnt need to kill everyone, he could just destroy all of the world's military"

maem said:

It was Gabi's thought process in judging Eren speech. It can be interpreted in many ways, like Eren lying as you choose. Or -maybe-he has some other purposes, not just about Paradis safety which Gabi didn't hear but the others understood
Some of Gabi's other questions like "shouldn't he be able to turn Connie's mother into a human again", also are the issues about Eren that the author wants to get the audience to pay attention to.

nhl2004 said:



That's actually something interesting I overlooked in my analysis despite it being that big. But I still disagree that it wasn't possible without omnicide, and even if it wasn't, even if mass murdering everyone is the only way, its simply too extreme of a choice and Eren doesn't even waver. Bertolt and Reiner didn't know what they were doing initially. It was only after they spent time in Paradis that they realized that the "Devils" were humans and thereafter we see them constantly struggle with this guilt. Eren even doesn't have that. He kills in a matter of fact way, announces genocide in the calmest manner.

Besides, isn't caring only for a specific people and not feeling a shred of emotion for others psychotic in itself?

Reminds me of that Japanese Twitter Killer who raped and murdered tons of women and hid their skellitons in his home after skinning them alive. In court, he actually said that he would be very upset if someone did bad thing to his own mom and sister but at the same time he felt no remorse for the women he himself killed

But anyway, that's beside the point. I can name you half a dozen ways that result in Eldians being saved from the rest of the world. Since Eren doesn't care much about Zeke (unlike Historia) he could simply have him sire children who would take the beast after he expires. Idk if it's possible but maybe he could've pulled off a King Fritz and made every successive Attack Titan/Founding Titan user obey his will and not hand over it to any of his friends (so that they don't die early)

This isn't as "it's us or them" as many people seem to think. Even if we say it's Eren's character to not want to enslave others, even a minor rumbling could've bought a 100 years of peace and potentially ended the cycle of hatred by making sure they don't repeat the mistakes of the old empire. Eren himself said it in Part 1 of S4. "All we need is time". And they would have plenty of it.

So yeah, the rumbling isn't something as noble as "I will save my comrades and protect my nation". Obviously this is also a key goal of the Rumbling but that can't be the whole picture

nhl2004 said:



You would gladly accept and learn to love an empire to if they have the potential to crush you without effort. Look at Japan. America nuked them, firebombed them and yet, 80 years later, is there any hatred between the two countries.

MuZe- said:

This is where you are wrong, judging SnK by real world standards. The real world doesn't have people who can turn into monsters. Yes, the rest of the world will surrender but it wouldn't last long. It wouldn't end the cycle of hatred, only fuel it. This is literally what King Fritz did 2000 years ago and look what it led to. It's a half-assed solution through and through.

I would say more about the post and the analysis but I do not have the energy nor the will because I know how it ends.

nhl2004 said:

Whether it would last long or not depends on the Eldians and how they would treat their subjects. The former Eldian Empire, which King Fritz founded 2000 years ago, was a cruel nation that caused only suffering and destruction. We cannot possibly say how it would've ended if the Eldians were actually just and kind to their subjects. It would have taken time, but with sincere effort, it is possible to undo even that cycle.

Besides, the existence of titans, is no reason to reject comparison between Real life and SnK verse.

Titans are weapons of mass destruction. Eldians are the only race that can manufacture those weapons. It is the same as an hypothetical real life scenario where only one country had all the nukes, chemical and biological weapons while the rest of the world could only wallow in fear and feel disgusted by those demons and their propensity for causing death.

nhl2004 said:



You would gladly accept and learn to love an empire to if they have the potential to crush you without effort. Look at Japan. America nuked them, firebombed them and yet, 80 years later, is there any hatred between the two countries.

MuZe- said:

Your analogy with the titans and weapons is not incorrect. However, the titans are linked to a race which inherently makes the Eldian race superior to other races in terms of power. Thus, there is an inbalance in the world itself that makes the other races inferior, unlike the real world where the weapons could be created and stolen by anyone to gain the advantage. Peace between races in that world would require for all of them to be equal.

Furthermore, in theory, it's easy to say that just being kind and nice would erase the hatred. However, you cannot control everyone to behave that way. Even then, rebellions would be inevitable because there are always people out there hungry for power and freedom. The bottom line is, there are too many factors at play here that contradict the idea of that peaceful utopia.

PresE2PayRespect said:

America occupied Japan after the war and reformed many, many things. Paradis, being a small island, can’t do that to the rest of the world. Non-Eldians will keep teaching their kids that Paradis is the island of the devil, a view only strengthened by the mini-Rumbling.

nhl2004 said:


Are you sure about that? Well I have another real life example. The British Empire. Guys occupied 1/4th of the world despite being a teeny weeny island on the Atlantic. As a guy from a former colony, I can say that almost nobody here hates Britain despite alll the exploitation and famines they caused. Maybe our ancestors hated them but the foreign aid and British entertainment has swept that all the under the rug. I fail to see how the same could've happened if Eren was willing to give it a chance

nhl2004 said:



You would gladly accept and learn to love an empire to if they have the potential to crush you without effort. Look at Japan. America nuked them, firebombed them and yet, 80 years later, is there any hatred between the two countries.

nhl2004 said:
Im sure a lot of you noticed this bit of dialogue from Gabi which goes something like, "If he wants to save Paradis, he doesnt need to kill everyone, he could just destroy all of the world's military" and that hit a nail on my head.

Of course.

There's simply no logical need to go that far. Obviously doing even a partial Rumbling would claim a lot of life but I doubt Eren even needs to kill 5% of humanity to fill the heart of every non eldian on earth with mortal dread. He could beat the world's army and pull up hundred's of thousands of titans right on the borders of every nation and they'd gladly surrender and join the New Eldian Empire. Even the cycle of hatred could've been stopped so long as the Eldians were just to their subjects.

So the question is, why the omnicide? His actions dont even seem antiheroic since an antihero is someone who has no choice but to do morally questionable things for the greater good.

Take Kiritsugu Emiya from Fate Zero as an example. He tried to avoid bloodshed as much as possible but wouldnt hesitate to kill loved ones if he had no other choice. Thats an antihero.

But if someone kills billions of people for a reason like "To save my nation/friends", even though they can saved with way less bloodshed, forget about being an antihero, he is a psychotic monster.

Which is what Eren has become now.


Now, one might say, "But he loves his friends, he has shown multiple times that he cares for them, so he isnt a complete psychopath, right?"

And they would be wrong. Maniacs and psychopaths have shown time and again that they too may feel great empathy for those close to them. Eren is like that. He fully understands that these people did nothing wrong and yet he simply cannot bring himself to care for the nameless and faceless masses of screaming men, women and children he is about to slaughter. Nonetheless, he feels a deep love for those he has spent time with and he genuinely cares for the well being and futures of those people. Its a contradiction surely, but an all too human one.



He is probably lying to us, the audience, his friends, all eldians, and even himself. Most probably his rage and lust for "freedom" have blinded him to tons of other ways this could've been done, all so that he can only see this one blood-soaked path that his heart yearns for.

He will kill indiscriminately and he would do it saying things like, "There was no other way" "I am doing it all for your sakes" After all, it is not uncommon for those who know profound love and profound malice to use one to justify the other to both themselves and to others, especially if both are equally genuine.



From an early age he has believed the world to be his birth right. That he could go anywhere he wanted, see whatever there was to be seen and nobody would be there to lift a finger to stop him. He pushed himself this far, sustained himself for so long on the thought that "Freedom awaits beyond the walls, all I have to is kill the titans"

He must feel cheated. That the world he had believed to be his birthright has been stolen from him. He could be feeling an "abstract lust" (which fyi is the name of his character song) for something he has never truly possessed.

No, Eren isnt some fascist Eldian Supremacist. That would be Floch. Eren never showed any hatred for other races of humans, nor does he love the idea of an Empire, cause if he did, he would have loved to subjugate non Eldians like they did in the days of the Old Eldian Empire.

To put it simply, Eren Yeager is a rebel who cannot accept the world as it is, a maniac who would reject all of existence if it were contrary to his vision, and a tyrant who would whimsically trample over all that he finds disagreeable.



But above all, Eren Yeager is a case study of how trauma can warp innocent children, and how those children can grow up to become adults, who, if given the means, would only cause more trauma. This is something that is painfully true, even in our world.

Eren and any real life person who resembles him should not be loved. They shouldnt be hated either. However, they deserve to be understood, pitied even.

For they were once the same as us, and had things gone differently, we would have been the same as them.


End

PresE2PayRespect said:


The Brits had allies, many centuries’ spent fighting wars and mainly conquered countries with little technological knowledge. It’s almost the exact opposite here, where Paradis literally just learned about there even being an outside world 4 years prior to the Rumbling. They don’t have anywhere near the people, knowledge or tech to keep the rest of the world controlled.

majinale said:

That's not how it works though. Japan became an empire and got involved in war mainly to secure a steady access to resources that they lack geographically so that they could industrialize. After carpet bombing them America gave them what they wanted and then some, a steady supply of resources, plus access to capital markets, plus protection. Relations would be different today had America chose to do otherwise.

I see that many of you guys still argue that diplomacy was possible and applicable in AOT's world. It wasn't, the world's hatred for Eldians (warranted or unwarranted) was too big to allow for that. The author made the situation as binary as he possibly could.

nhl2004 said:



But do you even need tech when you have titans? They're the ultimate trump card

PresE2PayRespect said:


Yes, you do. Titans are cool and all but as we’ve seen with Marley’s Cart titan armor, even a canon can take them out. Plus 13 years per shifter doesn’t sound inviting to any recruit.

nhl2004 said:



Im talking about the colossal ones. Eldia at least has a couple hundred thousand to a million of them. That gives em a much bigger advantage than superior firearms or elite navies ever did in our world.

nhl2004 said:



Racism could've significantly been reduced if only someone forcefully kept the world in peace and at the same time, facilitated cultural exposure between Eldia and the rest of the world.