Horimiya
itony01 said: You a Chad man good for you.GoshaX said: wow wow wow, when have I prevented them of freedom of speech? did I say that they can not say what they are thinking? Or am I just saying that what they say are wrong? We believe in teachers because they have the experience on the subject. You won't go and ask an unexperienced plumber to fix your stuff my guy, i had a girlfriend when i was 6 years old and @AlfredoS_ is right on this one. stop being so dumb and watch good anime like gakuen handsome |
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Deknijff said: Nah I just don't know how to talk to someone that think they can quantify love, I think no one in the world can quantify what is in your mind.And I rest my case too since you havent made a single good counter point in this discussion  and yes Im saying this because I wanted the last word lol |
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AlfredoS__ said: Oh no, please don't put word in my mouth please, when did I say that people don't have relationship "should not give their opinion" and also when did I say "PEOPLE WHO HAD NOT BEEN IN A RELATIONSHIP WHERE USELESS AND INVALID IN THESE THREAD." What I said is that I am questioning there opinion not saying that they cant say it. It is a big difference and also trying to win a augment by putting words in other people's mouth is toxic btw. GoshaX said: You were literally saying that if people hadn't experienced a relationship they should not give their opinion a limit themselves to learn from people with more experience, YOU LITERALY WERE SAYING THAT THE OPINION OF PEOPLE WHO HAD NOT BEEN IN A RELATIONSHIP WHERE USELESS AND INVALID IN THESE THREAD.wow wow wow, when have I prevented them of freedom of speech? did I say that they can not say what they are thinking? Or am I just saying that what they say are wrong? |
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| That is perfectly fair if you just don't like tsunderes. |
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GoshaX said: Isnt that almost exactly the job of a psychiatrist though?Deknijff said: Nah I just don't know how to talk to someone that think they can quantify love, I think no one in the world can quantify what is in your mind.And I rest my case too since you havent made a single good counter point in this discussion and yes Im saying this because I wanted the last word lol ignoring that though you can actually with machines see what emotions an individual will express before they are aware of it themselves by seeing which part of the brain reacts and the chemicals it releases from different stimulus such as pictures or music Spinner48 said: Experience is always good but not a prerequisite since you can still make an educated guess with the data you have available if you have critical thinking skills Deknijff said: Well thats a physical activity which isnt what Im actually talking about Im talking about evaluating data or facts on a subject, for example I have no experience in cell biology beyond high school but when presented with evidence of evolution and the origins of animal diversity its easy to tell if scientists have a clear understanding of reality compared to crazy religious people who believe in creation from a deity which they can't prove since evidence of it doesn't exist You kinda proved my point tho. You'd rather listen to someone who actually did the research than someone who just made theories off of random observation and doesn't have an indepth knowledge of what they're talking about. Tell me this, would you rather get career advice from someone who is in the industry or someone who dropped out of college. I've got relationship advice from people who have 20+ years of experience and they have all said that people have flaws and they have to work on that. First step is acknowledging them. Toxic is a pretty strong word and we throw that around pretty casually. I do think Hori has a problem but she is not as bad as Louise, Kirino, etc. I actually think she is mild compared to other Tsunderes. Anyway I feel like people are either taking it too seriously or aren't taking the word "toxic" seriously enough. Im not talking about giving advice here and I dont care if the couple is toxic or not nor do I have any viewpoint on it since havent touched the manga for years now Im just disagreeing with OP about needing real life dating experience to know if certain parts of a fictional couple's relationship is toxic or not |
DeknijffMar 19, 2021 3:56 PM
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GoshaX said: Ummm sorry in which part of my message did I put a direct quote of what you said? up in the thread you literally we talking to another guy saying that his opinion can't be taken seriously by people because he does not have experience and talking without experience was automatically bullshit. "What you just said is completely bullshit, no one in the world will take you serious if you have no experience on the topic. When someone is saying stuff that they don't have the experience, we call that bullshit in real life." Which leads my back to the Ad Hominem fallacy, which you did not even bothered to try and respond because you know I was completly right on there. I already spent more time that I should arguing with a random stranger on the internet. Bye.AlfredoS__ said: Oh no, please don't put word in my mouth please, when did I say that people don't have relationship "should not give their opinion" and also when did I say "PEOPLE WHO HAD NOT BEEN IN A RELATIONSHIP WHERE USELESS AND INVALID IN THESE THREAD." What I said is that I am questioning there opinion not saying that they cant say it. It is a big difference and also trying to win a augment by putting words in other people's mouth is toxic btw. You were literally saying that if people hadn't experienced a relationship they should not give their opinion a limit themselves to learn from people with more experience, YOU LITERALY WERE SAYING THAT THE OPINION OF PEOPLE WHO HAD NOT BEEN IN A RELATIONSHIP WHERE USELESS AND INVALID IN THESE THREAD. |
GoshaX said: Deknijff said: What you just said is completely bullshit, no one in the world will take you serious if you have no experience on the topic. When someone is saying stuff that they don't have the experience, we call that bullshit in real life.experience isn't needed necessarily when critiquing a relationship though  Do I need to have had a girlfriend to know Louise x Saito is unstable at times or something?  dont question the experience of the person critiquing, critic their critic if its bad or wrong factually So like we shouldn't say a murderer is bad unless we've killed a person or two and be able to know what does the murderer feels like?? To be honest, I don't have any problem with their relationship being toxic because I seriously don't care about both Hori and Miyamura due to the anime being so fast paced which led me to have no attachment to them whatsoever, they can just die in the next episode for all I care but what I'm actually curious about how much weed does it take to make someone say things like these without having any actual logic and saying complete bullshit just because they've been in a relationship?? I mean come on bruh |
Y0SHiiiiiMar 19, 2021 4:40 PM
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Spinner48 said: Im confused as to how by my logic of being able to understand something shown in fiction its therefore not toxic because its fiction so could you explain what you mean please?Deknijff said: I agree with you mostly but I'd still rather get experience before commenting on something. Isnt that almost exactly the job of a psychiatrist though? ignoring that though you can actually with machines see what emotions an individual will express before they are aware of it themselves by seeing which part of the brain reacts and the chemicals it releases from different stimulus such as pictures or music Experience is always good but not a prerequisite since you can still make an educated guess with the data you have available if you have critical thinking skills Im not talking about giving advice here and I dont care if the couple is toxic or not nor do I have any viewpoint on it since havent touched the manga for years now Im just disagreeing with OP about needing real life dating experience to know if certain parts of a fictional couple's relationship is toxic or not But going by your logic none of what hori has done would classify her as a toxic person considering it is an anime. I have watched quite a few anime and seen many tsunderes. She definitely is one of the mild ones. Also someone who has watched enough anime would know that it's done for humor. I do think that humor can get unfunny sometimes, but considering how she is , She shouldn't be getting this much hate just because she is popular. I wouldn't have said this if there was only one thread discussing this. But there are many. I think people are overreacting and partly because they think horimiya gets undeserved attention. Also I get you have no opinion on the matter. I just want to discuss. or am I misunderstanding you on that point? |
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| The post is ad hominem logical fallacy. Instead of laying down the arguments for why those people think the relationship could be considered toxic and then addressing those arguments, you attacked those people. Not to mention the word "toxic" is ambiguous and subjective to begin with. |
Spinner48 said: Ah ok well I think I understand how you see things on this from your POV Deknijff said: As you said we can make an educated guess using data. Well after watching similar anime we can guess what kind of humor is common in anime. Compared to others Horimiya is on the mild side. So, I think toxic would be a strong word for it considering it is intended for comedy. Also I think Hori is getting more hate than necessary considering,Im confused as to how by my logic of being able to understand something shown in fiction its therefore not toxic because its fiction so could you explain what you mean please? or am I misunderstanding you on that point? 1. many characters are worse but nobody was bothered before. 2. It is a pretty old manga so it might not follow present rules of what is considered funny. 3. It is shown in a light hearted way but people are treating it as something serious. All in all I think if we are gathering data we need to consider all these because it is fiction and not real life. Also I feel like too many threads are being made unnecessarily on this topic. I feel like people have become less understanding for some reason. Comedy of any type will always offend someone. If not today then in the future. So saying she is toxic and making so many threads about it doesn't make sense. After all toxic implies being malicious. I didn't find anything like that. I do understand Hori has her problems but don't get why it is a big deal. Again to emphasize, I only think people are making a big deal because there are a lot of threads. Does that make sense? Sorry if its too long Also worries it wasn't long at all |
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Spinner48 said: Ah well I feel its a valid viewpoint when it comes to understanding that since its fiction things are exaggerated for comedic effect and if one wants to simply view it as that its fine but Im unsure if malicious intent is actually needed since for example there are characters such as Ririchiyo who acts like a toxic snobby bitch Deknijff said: If you don't mind I would like to know your thoughts on my comment. You can refuse if you don't want to.Ah ok well I think I understand how you see things on this from your POV Also worries it wasn't long at all  but on the inside of her mind while she is insulting people she is constantly panicking, feeling shame over herself and telling herself to stop being an asshole  |
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| Well I dislike it because it is boring as shit. |
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Spinner48 said: Yeah its kind of hard when its a highly subjective topic Deknijff said: Its been a while since I watched inu x boku. While I do agree that malicious intent isn't a pre requisite, I feel like it is an either-or situation(completely subjective). Either there has to be malicious intent on one side that the other is unaware of, or there is no malicious intent but the person on the receiving end has to be affected quite a lot. While there is no evidence of the former, we can't really say it is the latter because they are in an initial phase of their relationship. They are figuring things out about each other and trying to improve. Miyamura doesn't seriously seem like he's suffering or else we would know from the monologues as you said. Also the music and environment suggests it is for comedy. So I feel like toxic is misused here. But then again my theory started with something subjective who knows. Ah well I feel its a valid viewpoint when it comes to understanding that since its fiction things are exaggerated for comedic effect and if one wants to simply view it as that its fine but Im unsure if malicious intent is actually needed since for example there are characters such as Ririchiyo who acts like a toxic snobby bitch but on the inside of her mind while she is insulting people she is constantly panicking, feeling shame over herself and telling herself to stop being an asshole |
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| I haven't seen Hiromiya yet, but I can see why people says Hori is toxic and that fact doesn't make this series automatically bad. You can enjoy things and criticize it as well bro |
GoshaX said: To all the people saying that Hori is toxic and they are not in a healthy relationship, I 100% bet you never had a relationship in your life. If you never had a relationship in your life how could you even comment on a relationship? How could you know that happens in a relationship? When I see the other post I question the reality of the universe. Someone needs to go set up a doctor's appointment now.  How is Hori NOT Toxic? Miyamura literally gets walked all over and forced to do things to make her happy even if he isn't comfortable with it with no give-take dynamic. U don't need to have been in a relationship to have the idea that that wouldn't be the type of the relationship you'd want to be in. In regards to the adaptation, it's rushed and cuts too much content that u barely know/care whats going on past the first 3-5 eps. I enjoy Jaku Chara much more and i feel like its gonna see good things going foward. |
Cobalt-Blue said: GoshaX said: To all the people saying that Hori is toxic and they are not in a healthy relationship, I 100% bet you never had a relationship in your life. If you never had a relationship in your life how could you even comment on a relationship? How could you know that happens in a relationship? When I see the other post I question the reality of the universe. Someone needs to go set up a doctor's appointment now. How is Hori NOT Toxic? Miyamura literally gets walked all over and forced to do things to make her happy even if he isn't comfortable with it with no give-take dynamic. U don't need to have been in a relationship to have the idea that that wouldn't be the type of the relationship you'd want to be in. In regards to the adaptation, it's rushed and cuts too much content that u barely know/care whats going on past the first 3-5 eps. I enjoy Jaku Chara much more and i feel like its gonna see good things going foward. "no give-take dynamic" Clearly ignoring the dude that wanted to step on her head by himself |
nakkki said: Cobalt-Blue said: How is Hori NOT Toxic? Miyamura literally gets walked all over and forced to do things to make her happy even if he isn't comfortable with it with no give-take dynamic. U don't need to have been in a relationship to have the idea that that wouldn't be the type of the relationship you'd want to be in. In regards to the adaptation, it's rushed and cuts too much content that u barely know/care whats going on past the first 3-5 eps. I enjoy Jaku Chara much more and i feel like its gonna see good things going foward. "no give-take dynamic" Clearly ignoring the dude that wanted to step on her head by himself That isn't what i meant... can't wait for this show to be over tbh so I can move on with my life. It was good to start but damn. |
| I think the pacing and creativity needs more work but I still enjoy it. |
 ManWild |
| 1. Jealousy If you’ve paid close attention to Hori—“She’s been always alone.” all her life. Her parents were always at work and she’s basically acting as the mother of her brother. She took care everything by herself, had great responsibility as a child, without parental love nor guidance. This leads her to become strong and independent early on her life—building her “strong” personality as she grew older. Most Tsunderes are like this: Aisaka Taiga, Erina Nakiri, Chitoge. If you see during the early episodes, there was a flashback to when Hori was sick and alone. Deep inside, she wanted her mom to stay and be there for her, yet the “work” was more of a priority for her mom. Have you ever heard the term “Daddy issues?” yes this is real, especially for people who never had parental love from birth – childhood neglect and abandonment issues. They never got the love that they always wanted and now that they have it, they never want to lose it. Would you really blame them for that? 2. Relationship If you’ve experienced real relationships, then this is how 90% of how real-life first-relationships work. Most teens are still immature, they don’t know how to control their emotions, get jealous and are still inexperienced. Their relationship is as realistic as it gets, albeit unhealthy—but most teen first-relationships are like that. It’s not all sunshines and rainbows like those shoujo shows. 3. Miyamura It is half Miyamura’s fault for being a pushover. “I’m letting her walk all over me in the name of love.” is a stupid concept for the fact that he stands his ground against his friends. He’s putting her on a pedestal. You can read Hori’s perspective on this at CH.81 |
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| Yikes , now we got Horimiya fanboys . You need to be in a relationship to know whether a relationship is toxic ? We are reaching levels of stupidity that shouldn't even be possible |
shoelacewaxMar 19, 2021 10:05 PM
| Damn bro you’re rlly coming for every weeb. Still kinda fax tho |
3462 said: haahahahah so which one are you? children OR twenty-something simple-minded losers?>retarded non-argument that attacks straw-men while completely failing to properly argue for or against anything (OP lacks the ability to) >horrible list of favorites that only a child could have >alright so OP is definitely just a kid >birthday: 1997 right right should've considered that users here on MAL or most often either: children OR twenty-something simple-minded losers. |
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Geel said: That's not elitism, just like you won't want an inexperienced doctor to do heart surgery on you.I don't even care about the topic but I hate the idea that you can't talk about something unless you've experienced it. Anyone can fucking talk about anything, your opinion means absolutely nothing to me just as mine means nothing to you. So stop the elitism and gatekeeping. |
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GoshaX said: To all the people saying that Hori is toxic and they are not in a healthy relationship, I 100% bet you never had a relationship in your life. If you never had a relationship in your life how could you even comment on a relationship? How could you know that happens in a relationship? When I see the other post I question the reality of the universe. Someone needs to go set up a doctor's appointment now. welp this picture gave me creeeps... |
Baakka1602 said: Just like you won't want an inexperienced doctor to do heart surgery on you.I mean what the hell is all this bs about needing experience in a relationship to fully understand a frikin peice of anime. I mean do u need a fucking science degree to watch a sci fi movie I mean calm the shit down. Look horimiya is good but it's gone done in entertainment value. The relationship is toxic and in recent eps downright boring due to almost zero screen time and adding kinks and just giving the main couple a fucking comedy skit at the beginning of every episode is a pretty bad idea for "exploring the relationship". It's a 8 for me maybe 9 if it ends strong with a couple of eps about WHY WERE WATCHING IN THE FIRST PLACE (THE MAIN COUPLE) Not saying that the side cast is bad it's pretty good especially the love triangle. The main problem I have is not with the show it's a fun watch but due to its hype and insanely high rating(which is a tad bit too high 8.30 imo) people will judge it and rightfully so but the people defending it I haven't heard a single decent argument for any of the problems listed above except people saying that it's a light-hearted show what it with that sense or just dissing my opinion completely Now that's fucking childish I'm saying this to all the "older" people who just swear to protect the anime they like without any form of argument to back it up. Fuck u Sorry got a little heated there everybody is entitled to their own opinion but just please give arguments while using ur head plzz |
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ArtoriaEvergarde said: That's the point.GoshaX said: To all the people saying that Hori is toxic and they are not in a healthy relationship, I 100% bet you never had a relationship in your life. If you never had a relationship in your life how could you even comment on a relationship? How could you know that happens in a relationship? When I see the other post I question the reality of the universe. Someone needs to go set up a doctor's appointment now. welp this picture gave me creeeps... |
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irishmonk said: just like you won't want an inexperienced doctor to do heart surgery on you.Damn, I can't disagree enough tbh. The argument you brought is just stupid and poor, it isn't even true and convincible. Why'd I need to experience a relationship just to conclude thats its toxic and unhealthy? You are just calling me a sore loser over here and not only me, the whole anime community. Well, I dont really mind that but if you are trying to make Hori+miyamura relationship haters(not necessarily haters) that they can't call it toxic just because they have been single their whole life, you'll fail but if you want the fact that you dont care about them hating to get through then you have kinda succeeded? |
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irishmonk said: okok how about just like you don't want a person that never meet you judge you. If you want a solid argument go look at the old reply I made, I'm too lazy to type it agian.GoshaX said: just like you won't want an inexperienced doctor to do heart surgery on you. Wow, you really dont know how to bring solid arguments huh? |
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irishmonk said: good for you, next time I hope when people try to know you they hear from someone that don't truly knows you and give false information, and than maybe you can make sense of it.GoshaX said: okok how about just like you don't want a person that never meet you judge you. If you want a solid argument go look at the old reply I made, I'm too lazy to type it agian. I looked buddy but nothing you said made sense but the people replying to you did. |
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| On the contrary, good sir. I have only ever had toxic relationships throughout my life. =) |
GoshaX said: To all the people saying that Hori is toxic and they are not in a healthy relationship, I 100% bet you never had a relationship in your life. If you never had a relationship in your life how could you even comment on a relationship? How could you know that happens in a relationship? When I see the other post I question the reality of the universe. Someone needs to go set up a doctor's appointment now. I hate horimiya because boring generic If you watch a lot of Romance you will see that almost all scenario on horimiya is in other Romance anime And they're relationship they became in relationship so fast and to the point i didn't care about theyre relationship..... Hope that explains why a lot people hate this... |
| I dont hate this show I think it's entertaining but it's been given more credit than it deserves imo. Also it's not cool to judge people just because their opinion on a show is different than yours. It has nothing to do with being in a relationship or not. We shouldn't hate on any show (hate is a really strong word fr better not use it often) but we're also free to criticize it and give our opinions on it. I think that's the whole point of this forum ❤️🔥💯 |
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