| When i was studying Hegel on my college, i had noticed something weird, but pretty accurate: Has anyone noticed that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is some short of a The Phenomenology of Spirit allegory? Try to compare the first part of TTGL with the first part of hegel's book (Self-Consciousness) and the 2nd part of TTGL with the 2nd part of PS. You will notice that not only Hegel, but there's also Marx and Lukacs references when the Lordgenome's police shows up and they are a bunch of bestialized beings. When the plots advance and we discovered that the anti-spirals were another spiral race, this reffers to Lukac's thesis (on marx) about the degeneration of bourgeois consciousness, movement that happens with the worldwide death of bourgeois modern project and illuminist ideals, marked by 1848, when the bourgeoisie leaves the stats of a revolutionary class to a reactionary class, killing the spirit of french revolution and starting an era of repression to the new emergent class: the proletariat. Furthermore, according to Hegel, the human history do not moves into a straight line, but into some kinda of spiral movement. This is at the introdution of The Phenomenology of Spirit. This also occurs at TTGL timeline, history and characters progression. The "spiral energy" is a clear way that shows how the creators of TTGL were influenced by hegel's thoughts. This happens not only at Gurren Lagann, but also on Kill la Kill at its beginning, when Satsuki is speaching and says that "Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!": when hegel is on the Reson, he argue that the reason make everything explainable so you can justify everything, even the worst estate's crimes. This is also another clear reference to the dialetic moviment. What are some other philosophical anime? Are there even any outside the Trigger/Gainax movement? If not, should anime become more philosophical to restore the artistic merit it lost thanks to moe? |
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| References to Hegel and many more philosophical, religious and psychological stuff - absolutely (almost in every Gainax project). TTGL being actually deep - naaah. |
alshu said: References to Hegel and many more philosophical, religious and psychological stuff - absolutely (almost in every Gainax project). TTGL being actually deep - naaah. How is being hegelian unequal to being deep? Have you ever dealt with german idealism? |
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| i like philosophical anime such as kino's journey and sakurada reset :^) |
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romagia said: i like philosophical anime such as kino's journey and sakurada reset :^) I watched both and while I can definitely agree with Sakurada reset's philosophical merit, I fail to see how Kino Journey is philosophical. Please give reasons and remember that paying allusion to hacks like Hobbes, Locke and Rousseau doesn't qualify for the scholar approvement. |
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| TTGL is definitely deeper then most people make it out to be, but this deep? Probably not. |
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Cherizzle said: How is being hegelian unequal to being deep? Have you ever dealt with german idealism? But it's not hegelian, it just [maybe] references Hegel. It's like I used some formula to calculate something...this dosn't make me mathematician/scientist - the honor goes to the guys who invented/extracted/made easy to use the formula. dealt with german idealism Yes, at least 5 times in 3 different Wolfenstein games. The flamethrower works fine against it. |
alshuOct 1, 2018 8:06 AM
| I think you are relating the themes of Gurren Lagann to something that could just be coincidence, having spiral power and therefore having antispirals as the antagonists is a pretty common trope in mecha(in gundam there were true Newtypes therefore cyber newtypes were made to counter true newtypes). What you speak of could be just a plot point that the creators thought of and I personally don't find TTGL from my perspective to be that deep especially in comparison to Eva because Evangelion has the same themes but done better with the way you describe Hegels thoughts(Evangelions timeline is a loop). Now in all honesty I have never heard of the philosopher's you speak of but I can agree that anime has lost it's artistic merit. There are still some anime being made that are artistic but very less in comparison to older shows. You could try watching Gundam to understand what I'm saying and Legend of the Galactic Heroes is another great example of a show that has more depth put into 110 episodes than anything literally ever made. Otherwise other Gainax shows like FLCL, Evangelion have similar themes but noticeable differences depending on the artist. |
| @alshu refute how it is not hegelian please. Protip: You can't. @rapidshadow Stripping down everything to just a mere coincidence is literally the reason why anime lost its artistic and analytic merit to begin with. Just like Tenshi no Tamago uses religious text for its narrative intentionally, TTGL is hegelian. |
niemandOct 1, 2018 8:29 AM
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| @Cherizzle I don't know who Hegel is because I didn't grow up in Germany so explaining the basis of his ideology would be highly appreciated, Anime has lost it's artistic merit because it isn't focused on making something unique, in the 80's Gundam made anime have mature themes which led to several artistic ova's like Angels Egg therefore there was a market for these more weird productions and people weren't as dumb as they are now to actually fund unoriginal projects for the purpose of making money because anime didn't turn much of a profit back then. Evangelion made tv anime more mature and led to several projects like Utena and Lain to be greenlit but at the same time it introduced people to waifu wars, moe etc. It is very clear that sex sells and shounen anime having a very broad appeal will also sell more than weirder anime because there are only so many people who can understand it and since anime can make a profit now companies can turn out of shows with broad appeal and actually make money. The outlook to make quality anime that appeals to this specific taste is gone because all the bad(not so artistic) things about classic anime is being made instead of things that made them great. Coincidence has nothing to do with it because most people don't even know what they are, for example someone who has no idea on this subject could see monogatari or kill la kill and call it a smart anime even though he does not understand why it is smart in the first place, now different people have different perspectives on what has depth and what doesn't I don't know if you think that modern anime that are trying to be artistic and have some depth like Higashi no Eden are terrible but I think that if almost every anime that comes out today has some substance to it then even if it doesn't do philosophy right from your perspective at least it is trying to be different and through several works like that at least one of them will shine.(Apologize for bad english) |
| Gainax is no stranger to using philosophy, so perhaps they used Hegel as reference. But I agree with other posters- TTGL isn't supposed to be deep like, say, NGE |
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| As someone who does read Hegel and Marx, I have to ask were you drunk when you wrote this? lol Glad to see someone on MAL mentioning Hegel, Marx and Lukacz though. The history of TTGL world is actually very unhegelian. Hegelian philosophy of history says that there's internal logic to which the later stage of history is a resolution to the internal contradiction of the previous one. Yet in TTGL history moves forward by the sheer will power of a few "great men". Team Dai-Gurren's replacement of Lordgenome resolved nothing contradictory inherent in Lordgenome's system. And finally Dai-Gurren's victory over the anti-spiral had no basis on any conceptual necessity. It was won by sheer will power. Anti-spiral's conception of the good was never shown to have insolvable inner contradiction on their own term, nor was Dai-Gurren's conception of the good shown to be a conceptually superior successor of the former. TTGL history is not Marxian for the similar reason. I would say even Macross is more Hegelian than TTGL. At least Zentradi lost to human because of their own civilisational backwardness (the lack of culture). |
CHCOct 1, 2018 10:26 AM
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But I don't need to, you should prove you claim first, because your post is mainly speculations and superficial likeness. |
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