Which girl is suitable for Soma?
| Goddess Erina's already got this wrapped up. |
| Erina is perfect for him, Megumi can go away and be his sister instead, my best girl Alice is Ryo's girl bc he deserves love, Ikumi is trashy comic relief, the last one is irrelevant. Either Erina or Takumi is the perfect match for Souma. |
| Fuck Erina, what you want more cliche bullshit? I don't know how Nikumi is a joke she's the only one so far who has shown some Romantic interest in Soma. "But in the manga..." FUCK THE MANGA I WATCH ANIME. MEAT4THEWIN FUCK THE REST Well except Alice NIKUMI x SOMA 4TW |
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Azai-kun said: EarlCiel said: Absolute, sad truth.. Sadly, the generic tsundere/hime characters seem to pull something out of people + resonate with hearts. Now, my heart may be hollow but I don't even have a little empathy for unrealistic, walking plot devices. Especially when they go through their dramatic character development which I call bs on every time. The way I see it is usually the mangaka is trying to compensate for every bad characteristic they have (which, is basically every characteristic) and transform them into a completely different person. Or, in other terms, a decent human being. However, people would label her 'boring' if she were too kind-hearted so she resumes + keeps some of her "adorable" characteristics since of course a genuine person who shows her genuine feelings to a guy is too boring am I right? I mean, oh my gosh, we have to spice things up and create this tool (basically) to motivate the protagonist and make things more interesting, right? Heyy, here's a great idea: why don't we add this plot device we grabbed from our ass since it's never been done before. Let's call it Nakiri Erina. We desperately need to use this device for the MC, I mean, since we aren't creative enough to come up with another method. Woww, what a refreshing, new innovation!! Everyone just has to love her since she's such an admirable human being *cough tool* Likewise. It’s unimaginably depressing that equally generic deredere characters with their excessive love or kind and neutral by default seem attractive to the typical third-rate audience, who clearly somehow appear to have been lacking love in their lives hence their attraction. Such notion is so severe to the point of demanding realism in character concepts in order to compensate that emptiness. Truly unfortunate that these deredere characters in actuality, lack potential to drive the plot (or as you call it, being a plot device) which harmonize between other characters inevitably creating what we really like to call, Character Developments. Hey every characters are created by authors with their default character settings for a reason right? Only that, authors find it a headache to proactively make a simple-overused, generic and plain deredere by default characters actually shine within the story they have created with blood & sweat. That said, the mangaka of SnS managed to create a deredere counter-part to the plot device Nakiri Erina with another plot device called Tadokoro Megumi, who apparently have been growing pretty decently over the past few arcs in very dramatic ways albeit cheaper than how her counter-part has. Oh wait, I forgot that you despise dramatic developments. Oh well. Yet again, it’s very depressing to find that there are still people who find pleasure & entertainment in receiving (as you pointed out) such genuine feelings from a so-called genuine person without even going through an emotional curve of character developments in a story made to be elaborate. Unfortunately, it’s a very undeniable fact that having a bland concept of character called deredere is very uninteresting and lacks the ability to give that fluttering feeling of having obtained a thorny flower which a hate/love developments can give. Examples of such stories would be something like Ever17 which was one of the best and successful VN of all times and Umineko no Naku Koro ni which has the prime antagonist becoming the main love interest. Or if you’d prefer shoujo manga examples, Kaichou wa Maid-sama or Namaikizakari would be the best. Hey, people loved them! Now try to replace these dynamic characters with a deredere instead.. Oh how much of a failure they’d be. That said, it’s also true that deredere characters have the potential to shine in certain cases of plot settings created by an author. I mean, take Clannad for example, you have Nagisa who’s a shy girl who actually manage to shine in one of the most depressing romance anime/VN ever. Another great love story, Bakuman, has Azuki Miho who was apparently a deredere as well. Hey these stories were rated insanely high so the heroines weren’t labeled as boring (as you claim we would) right? And yet, these pro-deredere audience still selfishly demand every single love story to have a deredere main heroine out of their own preferences not providing a leeway for the other archetypes even in a plot set-up best for a hostile or antagonistic heroine. Not to mention, such people who apparently are unable to withstand hostility from a character in a fictional story are being very active in spreading negativities and hate. I can only imagine how astoundingly negative such people are in everyday interactions. The hate spreading from the so-called anti-Erina faction, or maybe even the anti-tsun/kuu/hime/yan dere faction has sadly becoming a trend in which they pathetically attempt to devalue what they hate instead of raising the value of what they like. That hard to be positive huh? Oh that goes for the pro-tsun/kuu/hime/ya dere faction as well, who are pretty much similar in enjoying provoking others when everything goes their way. Incidentally, the most recent trend the negative fandom love to use is apparently the word forced development in which whenever a character or a pairing they hate managed to actually develop well enough, they begin spouting pathetic excuses of saying such developments are seemingly forced in their eyes. I mean c’mon, it’s up to the author if he wants to make developments subtle or sudden. Not to mention, in Erina’s case, her development was foreshadowed like in the beginning of the manga and the actual thing began like 40 chapters back and is still ongoing. If that’s forced then pretty much every romance story can be considered forced. With everything said and done. Shokugeki no Soma has a variety of great characters be it male or female which has been handled by the author pretty well so far. Romance-wise it is to the point of having a huge potential of making a glorious multi-pairing concept instead of the generic harem-pairing concept. Honestly speaking, Megumi the magnificient deredere of SnS is much more suited to the ambitious and handsome Takumi in which they can have a much better chemistry to drive a part of the plot together (eventually having the potential to become a plot-device themselves *wink* *wink*). Nevertheless, our glorious hime heroine Nakiri Erina has been handled pretty well by making her antagonistic nature gradually melts overtime thanks to the harmonious relationship developments with other characters and the final blow being our superb MC, namely Souma. Well I’m sure you’d want it to be more creative like making an alumni or any other alpha predator beat her down which inevitably prompts the MC to save her ass with a sudden shokugeki eventually developing her character to the highest degree in that span of time. But hey, this works well too ya know. ;) Yeah that's great and all, but Erina sucks. Nikumi best girl. |
Mormegil said: Yeah that's great and all, but Erina sucks. Nikumi best girl. Why good tsundere is worse than shitty tsundere? |
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bastek66 said: Mormegil said: Yeah that's great and all, but Erina sucks. Nikumi best girl. Why good tsundere is worse than shitty tsundere? They are both cliche, stereotypical tsunderes. Nikumi is just nicer/warmer compared to Erina. |
Chickened said: They are both cliche, stereotypical tsunderes. Nikumi is just nicer/warmer compared to Erina. What Chickened said. Nikumi isn't a snob. |
Mormegil said: Chickened said: They are both cliche, stereotypical tsunderes. Nikumi is just nicer/warmer compared to Erina. What Chickened said. Nikumi isn't a snob. Both girls are ojous, just one decided to dress slutty. Also Read the fucking manga. |
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Ojous? So what? Nikumi is still nicer than Erina and, the anime proves it. I'll read it once the anime has finished but, besides that, I'm reading Tower of God, a better series. |
Chickened said: Ojous? So what? Nikumi is still nicer than Erina and, the anime proves it. I'll read it once the anime has finished but, besides that, I'm reading Tower of God, a better series. Erina is nice to him, Nikumi is just an useless retard.  |
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| Why does Erina leading this poll when clearly Megumi is the best girl for Soma? The title states best for girl for Soma, not the best girl in the series (Alice clearly win in that category) Megumi is sweet, caring, cute, and a good wife for Soma lol. |
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| Everyone is going to be shipping him with Hisako very soon. |
Shiririin said: I personally think Soma would be better with Takumi. I love the BL route:D Honestly, I dont really care about Soma and his love affairs, I only have one OTP which is Shiomi Jun x Akira Hayama;3 |
ワンダーランド花 ♥ |
| To be honest, I feel as if the mangaka won't give us a conclusive romantic ending to prevent controversy among the fandom. It won't be as bad as Naruto because the romantic connections are there (especially in Erina, Megumi, and Nikumi's cases). However, since Soma's character is extraordinarily dense to romance and the manga's foundation is the competition and friendships Soma builds via cooking (not romantic ones, at least not yet), the author would put the ending where Soma's at the stage where he's exploring the world's coking and improving his own, while not ready to settle down with a partner and open his diner again. I'm betting the epilogue chapter will be Polar dormitory members and Soma's rivals/ friends, reuniting and talking and trying out the new dishes they've learned. It'll give a quick description of what each person has been doing and accomplished, where some will be predictable (Takumi and his brother building a business together in Italy and/or Japan, for instance) and some refreshing changes (two minor characters hooking up or one of the minor characters going into a different direction than cooking or their specialty). All in all, it'll be an OPEN ending regarding the romance. Still, I'm rooting for Megumi because I like characters who support MC from start to finish. Also, why is Hisako (Erina's secretary) not an option in the poll? They went through so much in the Stagiare Arc! I agree that Takumi should be an option because I don't think Soma cares about gender. Also, I can totally picture older Soma going to Takumi's place every day to compete in various recipes. Nevertheless, my true OTP is Jun x Hayama! |
Azai-kun said: rrucian said: HOLY FUCK !!! _ U ARE EXPECTING ME TO READ THAT !!! ITS'S TOO LONG PLS SUMMARISE THAT !!! Unfortunately, I can't really get my point across to egoistically negative people in a summarized form. Also, I meant to deliver facts and not mere opinions. ;) At first I was quite hesitant to respond, since I honestly don't care enough to respond, but since you took the time and consideration to so kindly respond to me, here's my response. I cannot believe that someone would actually take my post very personally. I apologize for that, not sure why that actually even happened. And anyways, I actually scoff at the fact that you present your argument as "facts and not mere opinions". You did include actual facts, but I see you using these facts as a desperate attempt to support your opinion. And then you try your best to make it seem more valuable than someone else's opinion. :) Oh, by the way, this is not by an means an invitation to a fight, but honestly, just an 'inference' like many of the inferences you made. I just want to first of all applaud you by starting off a post by categorizing people who support deredere characters as your ‘typical third-rate audience’, I mean, it really is completely accurate and "factual". Absolutely. It’s not as if people who kneel at the foot of tsunderes are third-rate either, since this label really is for one group of people. Tsundere worshipers really are on an entirely different level where they enjoy the luxury of such dynamic, creative characters that bring forth such variance and progress, contributing more than a mere 'deredere character’ has the potential to add. You made it very obvious that you clearly hold the better opinion. What I find most fascinating, however, is that you even attempt to extend that idea and reach—reach far beyond you might I add—in what looks like an attempt to psychoanalyze such a large audience and generalize their objectives? Really. I really do admire how far you are willing to reach to prove a point, and respect and admire both your tenacity and ambition. You know what, it would have never occurred to me that I subconsciously demand realism in character concepts to compensate for the lack of real love in my life. You definitely have stepped above and beyond a viewer to my psychologist. That's absolutely amazing and unheard of. Well, now I know and I really have you to thank. Normal people would perhaps react by giving you the finger in something called real life, since that really was an unnecessary and really quite a pathetic attempt at attacking people, but I’m really not offended because I know it's, to put it nicely, complete BS. BS that would make sense if you generalize an entire audience’s personal tastes, individual personalities, and motivations for the sake of an argument. But that’s okay, since all you really to do is pile a bunch of stuff you pull out of your ass and arrange it nicely so that it strengthens a point, right? What a well-rounded, greatly supported observation that deserves nothing less than a great pat on the back for showing a great presentation of ignorance. Actually though, an appreciated effort. I hope you don’t take that much offense to my lame attempt at satire, because by all means I honestly don’t care if you label me or even categorize me. Your opinion of me doesn’t matter to me at all. I also won’t disagree with you that deredere characters, some, lack in several way...perhaps even quite a lot of ways as you describe and there are some that lack in the potential to drive the plot. It’s inevitable since they are expected to act in a certain way and over time their actions and thoughts can be predicted without much effort. This does not, however, mean that every character is of that nature, nor does it imply they are all subjected to the same role in a story. This same thought applies for tsunderes. There's always that anticipated character development as she, at times, magically transforms from what seems like lacking a soul, to actually have a soul but was using her tsundere characterstics as a sort of defense mechanism. An understandable mechanism as it is probably evolutionary to refrain from being vulnerable to protect yourself as a social being. Thus, I am in no way proposing that tsunderes are not realistic, but rather they often follow a recycled template that doesn't have the same effect on me as everyone else. They do end up compensating for characters are not capable of showing such contrasting sides of a character, however does that make them likeable or interesting to me? Not really. Derederes, similarly, have a "typical" depiction of an idealized girl who is gentle, considerate, shy, soft-spoken and anything but repulsive (a synonym for repulsive is tsundere, the antonym is deredere). With the harmless joke aside, derederes can be as unrealistic as tsunderes in some cases, however there are qualities in each that attract people to both types. The same arguments can be made for both types of characters. People may argue that eventually tsunderes or derederes become more well-rounded, showing more human qualities over time, but the execution of this personality and development often times is nothing less than repetitive and monotonous. It's my personal opinion that I draw from experience, so I don't care if you attack it, but Erina is literally a recycled trope to me. I would like to point out that I am a anime watcher, so I have yet to see any development so my opinion obviously would make sense of her since she is at the moment one-dimensional. That is not to say, I will be completely taken back and impressed by her character when she manages to become a different person, but it's something I have to see for myself. I'm not looking for a piece of evidence that she is somewhat human, or even a reason for her behaviour because that's what's expected out of character development. I can see that you're probably pointing fingers at a person who 'doesn't even give tsunderes a chance', but when have I ever made that resolve? Certainly never. My previous post was personal opinion an prediction, with my current sentiments at the time which are not STAGNANT as you imply. I believe that even her character development will be used for plot purposes and she will remain this way to me. My opinions are subject to change, but as of now they remain this way. You can beg to differ, but those are your thoughts..not mine. I notice that in your post you aren’t feigning complete ignorance and know of deredere characters that have great, large contributions and impact on the plot. Similarly, I know of tsundere characters who aren't all recycled 'plot devices' that fall subject to the same role and same path in every show. These tsundere characters do exist to me. Yet still I seem to be categorized as a person who shows no mercy to tsunderes or any character of that nature. I mean, your post boldly generalized me among many and you seem to be under the assumption that when I express my distaste on one tsundere, then it is absolutely my life’s passion to go and target every tsundere character. That, and of course how I’m always on the bandwagon cheering for the derederes. Quite logical, quite an informative argument if that were the case, but you’re quite mistaken. Now, I would like to apologize if I said anything in the slightest bit to offend your beloved Erina-sama . My post was pretty sarcastic and insensitive, but an accurate reflection of my actual opinion of her, but at least you didn’t show me a butt hurt argument attacking both me personally (or anyone really), and my opinions of her character. Oh wait, we do have something of that nature here. I don’t take any offense to it really, though since it does not apply to me. I'm not also calling your entire post a butt hurt rant since I acknowledge the fact that you are actually making valid points.You bring up good points, might I add, about deredere characters who seemingly blend into bland mass produced archetypes programmed to fulfill the audience’s demand for “genuineness”. Tropes like these really do appear this way, yet derederes by nature are not the opposite of dynamic. Also, what’s wrong with demanding there to be a love story with a carefully constructed, realistic character that is an actual semblance to reality? Can anime not be used as a medium to reflect actual truths in reality, and an attempt to weave a new dimension--basically animating life as we see it? It doesn’t have to be for everyone, but if it is aiming for that effect at all, or if it has that impact on some people then I don’t see anything wrong with demanding such a character. I would argue that it’s equally as selfish to advocate to get rid of deredere characters and demand for these ‘other archetypes’. It’s all about preference, and honestly there can be a million and one reasons out there to hate a certain character, but it’s up to the individual. Similarly, I would like to point out how enlightened I feel reading your accurate profile of the tsundere-hating community you created for everyone. They are just always out there on forums spreading negativity, or wait, their opinions. But that’s not important. The important part is that they are incredibly negative and spreading so much hate. Specifically, I would assume, this hate is directed to your beloved waifus held in some temple that are not to be scratched or touched. It's absolutely sacrilegious and a crime to even speak badly of them. While I do understand your critical view, and pointing out hypocrisy is always a great way to bring attention, I think you are forgetting the context of the situation, which is not to be ignored. When we step back for a minute and remember that this is discussion about a fictional character. What people say against such characters is only a opinion. I repeat, these are characters that embody human personality, feelings, yet at the end of the day it is a representation. To say one person’s opinion or ‘hate’ is being expressed with hate is an accurate observation. To extend that observation into somehow believing that they are hateful people that in everyday interactions literally find ways to bring people down and spread hate is really stretching it, once again. |
EarlCielSep 9, 2016 8:31 AM
| Megumi. And I'm not changing my mind about that. |
| Megumi will be his Bad End, Erina his Good End, but we all know that Takumi will be the True End. LOL |
| Why should I bother, I don't bother with small shit like that... What I'm interested is that, I wonder how will Erina's reaction when she tastes my white stuff... Ohhh... I guess, she wouldn't reply, she's not even real... Well back to my fapping routine. When you think about it, in this kind of series, I prefer to see the supporting character's love interest rather than the MC's... You're not the only one who's waiting for it dude... SilverDio said: Megumi will be his Bad End, Erina his Good End, but we all know that Takumi will be the True End. LOL You don't like Exhibitionist-kun? |
| It's Erina. Has been from chapter 1, but especially with what is happening in the manga. |
"If you have time to think of a beautiful end, then why not live beautifully until the end?"- Sakata Gintoki, Gintama  |
| yall stop being so serious and ship him with takumi tbh |
Erin-sama obviously, shippers setting themselves up again for disappointment as usual. EarlCiel said: Now, my heart may be hollow but I don't even have a little empathy for unrealistic, walking plot devices. Nah you're just a jealous loser who hates on talented successful people. I bet if you were talented you would hate on the common folk too. |
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| Souma x Erina combo would probably be unstoppable with Erina's skills imo. |
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| Guys, reminder from Shokugeki no Soma S1 "Listen well, Sōma, the secret to becoming a great chef is... meeting a woman that will make you want to give all the food you make to her..." ~ Joichiro Yukihira I've been reading the manga for a long time and the current stuff going on right now easily tells me who Soma will likely end up with.. But for those who only watch the anime, most people are either thinking of Erina or Megumi being the one Soma ends up with. Fine with either. |
Hinata-chiSep 10, 2016 1:12 PM
ichii_1 said: Nah you're just a jealous loser who hates on talented successful people characters. I bet if you were talented you would hate on the common folk too. There, fixed it for you..'jealous' of a character? Really? There's actually this separation between anime and something we all call real life, and I would like to make that clear for you if you maybe haven't noticed it already. I don't know what sort of response you expected, but I honestly don't get people who are so butthurt and start attacking me because I spoke badly of their waifu. It's not like I don't understanding defend a character you like, joking around as well, but I honestly don't care enough on whether to take your post seriously. |
EarlCiel said: ichii_1 said: Nah you're just a jealous loser who hates on talented successful people characters. I bet if you were talented you would hate on the common folk too. There, fixed it for you..'jealous' of a character? Really? There's actually this separation between anime and something we all call real life, and I would like to make that clear for you if you maybe haven't noticed it already. I don't know what sort of response you expected, but I honestly don't get people who are so butthurt and start attacking me because I spoke badly of their waifu. It's not like I don't understanding defend a character you like, joking around as well, but I honestly don't care enough on whether to take your post seriously. Your views on the characters show what kind of person you are, it doesn't matter if it's fiction, using fiction as an excuse is also an excuse. |
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ichii_1 said: Your views on the characters show what kind of person you are, it doesn't matter if it's fiction, using fiction as an excuse is also an excuse. Honest question here, but what kind of logic is that? I'm not using fiction as an excuse, I'm using it as a fact. If you think that by reading someone's view on a character it somehow gives you better idea of what person they are, then it would probably be worth re-evaluating every person you actually know in your life. Sure, you know more about their opinions, but how exactly does that give you a description of how they actually are? Please indulge me because I genuinely would like to know. Similarly, this is a discussion about the anime and therefore this discussion should be relevant to the topic. Why are you suddenly bringing in people's 'supposed actual demeanor that you have meticulously analyzed through their opinions on one character' in this discussion? I think that's the real question. If you have an actual problem with me, then please PM me because this really is not the place. I'm really not interested in a fight, but if you hate me I really can't do anything about that...except for maybe apologize for anything that seemed to be an attack towards you? I don't believe I did anything of that sort, but if you took that way, then I apologize. If you just hate me, then I'm sorry it's really nothing I help you with, that's something you need to work on your own. |
EarlCielSep 10, 2016 5:54 PM
| I'm gonna add in to the discussion even though I was initially planning not to; Erina seems to be a tsundere but I think it's justifiable unlike in some anime where the character literally just is a tsundere for the convenience of it. Here's why I think it's justifiable: First, Erina expected Souma to serve her garbage; why? I mean imagine if you were one of the leading and most powerful chefs in the world. You're serving as a critic for these kids with nowhere near as much experience as you. You don't expect anyone to challenge your palate. Then, this snobby kid from a diner comes and cooks for you. Obviously, Souma never knew who Erina was cuz he never really knew about the outside world besides his diner. Erina instantly assumes that he just didn't know anything. She expects something nasty, but then her mind was blown. In Erina's position, what do you do? Do you want to admit that some snobby fool from nowhere makes good food? I don't think most people would in that position. At the least, you won't be willing to approve of his cooking. Maybe it was luck. Then you see this snobby kid again after rejecting him LOL. Then you see him succeeding in many different events. That's what you call a pride wreck. |
EarlCiel said: Sure, you know more about their opinions, but how exactly does that give you a description of how they actually are? Please indulge me because I genuinely would like to know. Similarly, this is a discussion about the anime and therefore this discussion should be relevant to the topic. Why are you suddenly bringing in people's 'supposed actual demeanor that you have meticulously analyzed through their opinions on one character' in this discussion? Psychology. Cause you hate Erina for stupid reasons, "omg she's talented so she's a plot device and has an attitude". |
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| Basically, as someone made a topic about this not too long ago on the anime discussion boards, Blonde always wins. |
anonypc said: Basically, as someone made a topic about this not too long ago on the anime discussion boards, Blonde always wins. xD. Dude, that was long ago, so i thought of making a new one ! |
Calista777 said: It's Erina. Has been from chapter 1, but especially with what is happening in the manga. Go read the manga if you dunno what's happening ! Well, Erina's grandfather is taken out of his position and Erina's dad is the current director now and also Erina's Grandfather asks Soma's help to help Erina from the clutches of Erina's dad :) So there is a rebel group fighting with the new Elite Ten. Speaking of the Elite Ten, Isshiki senpai is out of the group and hayama is one of the new Elite Ten and Soma defeats one of the Elite Ten ! So now, Soma and Hayama is about to have a fight for the third time and this time i am pretty sure Soma will kick his arse so much, cause Hayama left Jun and joined the bad side of Tootski. I just summarized what's happening now. Read the manga to know more details ! |
ichii_1 said: Psychology. Cause you hate Erina for stupid reasons, "omg she's talented so she's a plot device and has an attitude". Alright, that's your opinion of me that's actually related to the topic at hand. I obviously don't agree that my reasons are stupid, I gave a whole argument defending my reasons which you probably don't care about, but nonetheless you are entitled to your own opinions. You did summarize my post, in some sense, but if you want more elaboration, then by all means sure. I thought it was obvious, but I guess not to everyone so it's my fault for making that assumption I guess. It's not' just her attitude', but the reason I believe she is a plot device is because every time the main character is, for example, trying to accomplish some task above him he is given advice, feedback from many characters, but Erina in particular is used with her extremely charismatic way of looking down on people maintains the flow of the plot offering 'resolutions' for him. Similarly, whenever Soma is sort of blinded by his own accomplishments, we can always count on our majesty Erina to step down on him and push him back in his place. I can imagine that her character development will also fulfill some trait that is mean to not only reshape her, but basically be used in relation to Soma in order to fulfill some characteristic that Soma is lacking in. Which we have plenty of areas to choose from. The fact that Erina is infatuated with his dad is by no means any coincidence or connection, whatsoever. Oh, I really wonder why that connection was made. As I mentioned in a previous post, I am merely rolling my eyes at what I think will become of her. It's my current opinion of her, subject to change, but as of now even you can't change it if that's what you are planning to do. I see those roles she plays as a plot device, and you can try to convince my otherwise, but saying that my reasons are 'stupid' really doesn't contribute much. I'll also have you know that I don't expect to be psychoanalyzed daily, but if you feel so inclined to tell me my inner problems and characterize me for me then by all means, please do. Just know that nothing you say is substantial enough to actually be legitimate since you are no way qualified...you seem to be under the assumption you are just wonderful at whatever the hell it is you think you're doing. Another fact that I'll leave you with in response to your answer "Psychology". This might be somewhat beneficial to you in life: there's this psychological concept called situationism, where the social self chances across different contexts. In the contexts of being an observer of certain representations of ideas, feelings, and attitudes in a character I am extremely critical, blunt, and undeniably rude to such a character. I even called her character, not a person, a plot device to sort of separate her from being a real person. Yet, you made the fundamental attribution error, assuming that this is my personality and how I behave in my every day life. People behave differently in different situations and contexts. Offline and online. Talking about a character and talking about a person. These are separate from one another. I say this as a fact, as a psychology major, and as someone who has studied social psychology, but you can choose whether or not to believe. Have a good day. |
EarlCielSep 11, 2016 4:13 PM
| @EarlCiel shallow reasoning, by that standard every story in fiction is badly written, you can't even lookup to someone's dad or meet each other without being a plot device? I wonder if you say the same thing about western stories or is this just your bias to anime? They are in the first year so they will obviously run into each other and during the buffet ep Erina didn't help Souma at all, he figured it out himself so your Erina criticism is baseless. There also a concept called "dispositionism", it's not certain you will act differently and I doubt you thought of differentiating between fiction and real life when commenting every time. |
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ichii_1 said: There also a concept called "dispositionism", it's not certain you will act differently and I doubt you thought of differentiating between fiction and real life when commenting every time. You said it yourself--"not certain". Therefore, any assumption you make is still baseless. I fail to see what you are attempting to make, and I honestly don't care. Edit: PM-ing you the rest of conversation (or might not because you might be uninterested) because clearly, you've got something against not only my opinion, but me. I am assuming this because it seems that you are not only trying to make it very clear that you have a problem with the personality you have assumed for me. Clearly you are just trying to express that everyone else who dislikes Erina is wrong and you are somehow right. With no good reason at all. Please, by all means, how is this an actual argument if you magically just somehow "gained the upper hand" on a side that you never defended. I also don't need you to legitimize my opinions. What the hell does that even mean. To even call my opinion baseless just because you throw out two instances. Just because you mention them doesn't suddenly erase the things I pointed out. Why, tell me a valid defense of why Erina is a wonderful character and I'll say the same to your opinion. I'll give you two examples of when she's not a "wonderful character" and call your argument baseless. It's completely ridiculous how you think that somehow would make your opinion baseless, and my opinion as well...You are trying to criticize mine, without really expressing yours and that's not a discussion, so I'd rather not engage in whatever this is. |
EarlCielSep 11, 2016 7:28 PM
EarlCiel said: Edit: PM-ing you the rest of conversation (or might not because you might be uninterested) Clearly you are just trying to express that everyone else who dislikes Erina is wrong and you are somehow right. With no good reason at all. Why, tell me a valid defense of why Erina is a wonderful character and I'll say the same to your opinion. I'll give you two examples of when she's not a "wonderful character" and call your argument baseless. No thanks. Erina doesn't have enough focus which makes your points baseless since she hasn't influenced enough of the plot, the only reason to hate her is because of her rich girl attitude which just makes you seem childish since it isn't even overbearing. You will see her development in season 3. |
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Mayuka said: This. I'd much rather see him ending up with no one but becoming a wandering chef striving for perfection or something.Food. I ship him with food. |
| ったく、嫌な世の中だよ。 |
ichii_1 said: Erina doesn't have enough focus which makes your points baseless since she hasn't influenced enough of the plot, the only reason to hate her is because of her rich girl attitude which just makes you seem childish since it isn't even overbearing. You will see her development in season 3. Touché. I think the day when you finally realize what is coming out of your mouth can be pretty much interpreted as butthurt complaining, comparable to a kid doing whatever it takes to "win a fight",then it will be a wonderful day of self-realization for you. Wouldn't be surprised if your true form was a eleven year boy. With all jokes aside that I hope didn't offend you since it was not meant to be taken personally, I eagerly await that day, and the third season as you mention. |
EarlCielSep 12, 2016 1:40 PM
EarlCiel said: Touché. I think the day when you finally realize what is coming out of your mouth can be pretty much interpreted as butthurt complaining Likewise, as long as you get that Erina is the best.  |
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rrucian said: ... Thx, but I've long up to date with the manga.Calista777 said: It's Erina. Has been from chapter 1, but especially with what is happening in the manga. Go read the manga if you dunno what's happening ! Well, Erina's grandfather is taken out of his position and Erina's dad is the current director now and also Erina's Grandfather asks Soma's help to help Erina from the clutches of Erina's dad :) So there is a rebel group fighting with the new Elite Ten. Speaking of the Elite Ten, Isshiki senpai is out of the group and hayama is one of the new Elite Ten and Soma defeats one of the Elite Ten ! So now, Soma and Hayama is about to have a fight for the third time and this time i am pretty sure Soma will kick his arse so much, cause Hayama left Jun and joined the bad side of Tootski. I just summarized what's happening now. Read the manga to know more details ! |
"If you have time to think of a beautiful end, then why not live beautifully until the end?"- Sakata Gintoki, Gintama |
Oh my, despite claiming to be reacting nonchalantly towards my response, you seemed to be very enthusiastic in producing such an elaborate way to counter-argue in a pathetically sarcastic way to throw me off emotionally :D. I’m very glad to see my enlightenment managed to get into your head to make you care enough to response such a way. Likewise I snicker at the fact that your blatant ego refuse to accept the facts that I have elaborate in my previous post by being miserably denial and also the fact you can’t tell which opinions are and which are mere facts. Hey all I was saying that all archetypes has positives and negatives and which one they respectively has, right? Not like I’m saying one is completely better than the other (despite not admitting it you’re the one who did that by the way :D). Sure I did argued that antagonistic archetypes (Tsun, Kuu, Yan, Hime) has a better characterization to influence emotional curve of developments in certain stories but I did also mentioned that the sympathetic archetypes (Dere, Dan) can also shine in certain values depending on certain circumstances in some stories. Nonetheless you just had to make an unmoving stand on your point that such facts are unacceptable and label it as mere opinions to satisfy your own prejudiced perspective. To summarize, saying that “archetype A is better at certain points than archetype B” is factual while saying “I like archetype B than archetype A even though A is better than B at certain traits” is the one by opinion. Can’t accept it? Then you’re just simply being obnoxiously and emotionally in denial. Heck, previously you clearly wanted your prejudiced & bias sentiments to be accepted as facts while covering it to be sarcastically expressed opinions. It’s really funny that either you missed it or you’re just being emotional (*cough* butthurt) for not noticing it but you’ve been really hell-bent into thinking that I was actively defending the tsundere tribe when I’m actually defending all tribes factually in their respective values in which you’re the one trying to actively topple by using your opinions as arguments albeit in a sarcastic way which yet again contradicts the claim that you’re merely expressing harmless opinions. I mean really? Tsundere worshippers? Haha, sure there are some masochistic idiots who’d actually enjoy those abusive treatment the tsundere tribe do, disregarding the characterization and developments they can express hence the huge support. But do I really give that impression, despite me just making it clear the antagonistic archetypes are just more dynamic than the sympathetic ones. Pity your prejudiced perspective has been twisted to such a degree that it makes you blind at such simple statements, not to mention labeling me as someone who was expressing his ignorance yet you yourself failed miserably at grasping my own standpoint in the matter :). Psychoanalyze? Generalizing an entire audience’s personal tastes? Dear Lord, did I mention your understanding of my statement is so poor and pathetic? Seriously at this point I doubt whatever I say will get into your head properly as I might even assume you’re just being butthurt over this but for the heck of it I’m gonna clarify it anyways. I never did or intended to analyze or generalize the audience’s personal preferences and interest whatsoever but merely enlightening the facts at how characterization, developments and the such can influence the story to make it more interesting. Merely the cause & effects. And again your obliviousness is confusing you to think that methodology of a story equals to the opinions of the general audience which ultimately lead you to accuse me of generalizing others. Just recently based on my observations throughout various discussions on the net, I found out the some Megumi supporters no longer bear any ill will towards Erina due to her recent developments in the manga as well as some Rem of ReZero fans are also fine with Emilia because of certain developments from the LN. The characterization molded by authors of various series are able to emotionally manipulate the audience to such a point that even the most hated characters can gain the heart of the audience if they develop well enough. (*cough* Beatrice *cough*). Well unfortunately, real life sentiments have no real influence in the world of imaginations that is anime. :) Tsundere worshippers, damn really this is gonna make me laugh all week. XD. Likewise, you deserve a standing ovation for your flagrant nature at poignantly making sarcastic and negative remark to satisfy your inflated ego before expressing his own argument and claiming it to be his own opinion when in actuality expected it to be accepted as a general fact. A very pitiful example of having double-standards. Another example we can see is that despite you claiming the tsundere tribe oozes with glaring cliché-ness, you never did admit that the deredere tribe possesses the very same cookie cutting BS in pretty much every story they’re involved in. (Not gonna admit who Megumi reminds you of? *coughs* Onodera *coughs* Hinata *coughs*). Hey now I’m not saying cliché is bad you know, you’re the one saying it by the way~. As a person involved in the entertainment industry myself, I know how truly difficult it is and how much of a talent we need in order to weave a story without having any cliché contents. Surprisingly, many authors managed to make a successful story by using those same cliché-ness but through different methodologies. Those repetitive developments you despise might actually become the turning point for the story to shine and you still categorized it as a negative trait. Guess your so-called experience didn’t include facing everything in a different perspective and not to mention the so-called recycled trope you’ve been using can be applied to most of the characters in SnS including Megumi as well. You didn’t even include Hisako, a fellow tsundere as cliché as well, in which I might again assume you’re just being salty towards Erina’s antagonistic attitude? XD. Funny you say that you and everyone else hates cliché when previously you accused me of generalizing the audience. How do you automatically know everyone hates cliché? Ah, an anime only audience who makes sarcastic negative descriptions of the characterizations and predicting the developments without even expanding his own mental flexibility. If your opinion dictates that Erina only and will ever has negative characterizations then how could you even make a prediction on the positive side of the character developments? Oh sure I can say the same thing, Megumi’s previous developments were also used as a plot device to make her a better and confident person after facing Shinomiya and not to mention in order for Souma to face Shinomiya in a shokugeki ultimately mellowing down Shinomiya’s malice. Why in the world are you hell-bent on thinking that being a mere plot device is so very negative when pretty much every main characters are as a matter of fact, plot-devices? Your so-called opinions are so specifically direct to one person to the level of spitefulness, so much that you might as well just say “Only Erina’s negative and Megumi’s positive values are visible to me.” Well to simplify, you’re not being very impartial and just spouting personal and prejudiced views. For the third time, your poor understanding of my descriptive statement fails your profiling of me. I never did point you out directly as a subject nor did I ever accuse you of being a universal tsundere hater. All I did was enlighten to the general public the value of the antagonistic archetype in comparison to the value of the sympathetic ones and how idiotic it is to simply spout hatred just to boost their ego. Well unfortunately, you’re undoubtedly a sad case of such egoistically negative person by ranting about how negative Erina is as a character when instead you could have just show your love for your beloved Megumi in your previous post. Like I said, why express opinions towards the one you think has the most negatives when you can just go for the most positives? Also, demanding everything to go exactly whatever you desire in a story is the very reason for a person to give poor evaluations on said stories despite it being very interesting, in other words you’re just simply being too self-centered and conceited to have the authors do everything your way. In this case, you demand realism when anime, manga, visual and light novels are works of fiction. Sure realism can be added in certain stories but not in an exaggerated way as you demanded. Examples would be the ‘Slice of Life’ genres in some anime, manga, visual and light novels. Does SnS has the ‘Slice of Life’ genre? Nope, hence why every characters SnS has doesn’t really portray any realistic qualities. Surely you don’t see people stripping after they had a meal yes? xD. You’re better off watching some random Korean drama if you desire that much realism. Also, since when did I want to remove the deredere tribe? Did I ever say Megumi’s existence in the story bad and needs to be removed? I won’t be giving good deredere character examples if I’m having that kind of thought sheesh. As I mentioned before, it’s strange and saddening that you think opinions only consists of negativities when people can choose to keep those negatives to themselves and instead give positive remarks about the things they like in the story. I can’t seem to think this thoughtless attitude as anything else but mere provocations to start pointless and time-wasting arguments about whose opinion is the most righteous. Haha, well you can think of it in such a way (that the waifus can’t be insulted) but all I’m promoting is a positive and calm discussion environment. Fictional characters or not, if it causes one to become emotional about it, why pointlessly spout those same negative opinions when you know you’re simply gonna receive negative responses which in turn will become a heated and pointless arguments? Sugar-coating it as opinions won’t really justify that it’s just a means to satisfy one’s desire to devalue whatever it is they find displeasure in the story and secretly desire that some compliant individuals will be influenced by them. To conclude this, if you still feel unsatisfied, feel free to express more of your denial sentiments. I find it hard to believe that a person who doesn’t really care would present such an elaborate response just to sarcastically mock my own sentiments heh. Just so you know, I really do care about these types of arguments and I will and certainly response if you’d really go so far to take your time (or care enough) to do so. Call it butthurt or emotional to satisfy your ego, but I’m merely just making a stand that there are facts that people just need to accept. Have a nice day~ ;) |
Azai-kun said: To conclude this, if you still feel unsatisfied, feel free to express more of your denial sentiments. I find it hard to believe that a person who doesn’t really care would present such an elaborate response just to sarcastically mock my own sentiments heh. Just so you know, I really do care about these types of arguments and I will and certainly response if you’d really go so far to take your time (or care enough) to do so. Call it butthurt or emotional to satisfy your ego, but I’m merely just making a stand that there are facts that people just need to accept. Have a nice day~ ;) I don't care about what you direct towards me, since I don't take it personally at all, but I cared enough to respond since you so kindly typed a response or what I interpreted as an invitation to a discussion. I did so, and took my time to respond. Undeniably, there are facts that people believe should be accepted, and you can spend days arguing about it, but are they really indisputable if at the core of it it's really something you believe. Because someone else can believe otherwise with the same information presented. You clearly don't agree with my thoughts, but the 'evidence' that you present to counter me is not completely factual either. The fact that you are trying to change my opinion, is probably a sign that Erina's character and personality can be viewed and interpreted in multiple ways. Correctly. This is a view of a character we are talking about. I mean we are judging her traits, her role in the story, and her character. Of course they are opinions, yet you present them as facts? Why don't we put all your words in a textbook if what you say really is that credible. I'm not sure how you read, but we can read together and I'll point at each word with you and help you realize from beginning to end it's your opinion. A fact to me, is absolutely indisputable, and everything you type to me is an opinion, your stance, your belief that you can call a fact. That is not to say there is no truth to what you say, but rather this is an exchange of opinions. It's talking about character archetypes, what truth can there be in this discussion of the intangible. Therefore my post, while very satirical, was meant to be taken as a response and it is also an expression of my opinion. A response to your opinion. You can think otherwise, and I'm not going to convince you otherwise. If you think that you are an elite, far above any typical anime-watcher then by all means go and ruffle your feathers all over the forum and step on people's opinions. If that's what you do, then I'm not going to stop you and you can keep thinking that way. Your problem to solve, not mine, and that's just an assumption since I'd hope you are better than that. Have a nice day as well, and I will excuse most of your post as just an attempt to be witty, because if you did take offense to my post, then well, can't really do anything about it. Maybe man up...? Because it was a joke and don't take it too personally? Maybe, if you really want, I think that a great way to displace this anger would be to write a book dedicated to Erina-sama, no wait, the entire tsundere community, because I'm sure there would be a lot of evidence and each chapter will just be filled with wonderful information...facts...wait, opinions. I'll pass on reading it, though, since I would much rather watch the anime and have my own thoughts and opinions placed in my head than someone presenting their opinions as facts. There's nothing wrong with reading opinions from another perspective, but the reason I felt so inclined to respond was because you seem to think your thoughts are a hundred percent factual. And I'll just end it at that, because there really is no point in pursuing this. |
EarlCielSep 24, 2016 1:46 PM
| Tadokoro Megumi. :) |
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