| He's very profound and creative, although I feel like both series have started to decline in quality. The whole "kanji ability users" arc in Medaka seemed like a straight-up parody of Monogatari dialogue, and while I like the Monogatari franchise, Owari was really weak both with new characters (and old, Senjougahara was a total asshole during the first arc) and due to the fact that it was supposed to be the ending but he decided to keep going. I will disagree with the character development. I think there is enough time spent on each character to make them feel unique, although this has been slipping. He's definitely not a bad author, though. |
| I haven't seen Medaka but it already sounds annoying. |
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TimberCloud said: I wanted to know what you think about that. Medaka Box wants to "deconstruct" battle shonen like Evangelion did with mecha (damn, how many animes tried to "deconstruct" a genre since then?) but ends up just being an exxageration of shonen tropes, though still funny (don't tell me that references to other mangas are a selling point: they're everywhere nowadays). Monogatari (of which for now I've only seen the anime, maybe the novel is better) instead wants to be real deep in describing youth problems, but fanservice is just too invasive and makes loots of scenes very lame if you don't care for ecchi. Some arcs are interesting, but wouldn't have been better to keep fanservice low and spending more time on character development? I don't think people understand what deconstruction is. Deconstruction is taking the core elements of a genre, and figuring why they exist. Deconstruction makes us question why things are like that. Evangelion is a deconstruction because prior anime with children getting robots just glossed over the fact that the children were responsible for the safety of all of manking. Eva said, "OK let's look at Tetsujin. Tetsujin fights scary ass monsters. If he loses we're ALL fucked. Why isn't this kid scared he'll fail?" So they took that idea and ran with it, though I wouldn't call Eva a full deconstruction. Around the middle it abandoned deconstruction the genre and began taking itself seriously. I would consider Madoka a deconstruction of magical girl anime as well. "Why are the contractors for magical girls cute cat like things?" Well you'll let your guard down around something like that blah blah blah. Of course, like most deconstruction anime, it abandons this midway and takes itself seriously. Medaka Box does NOT deconstruct battle shounen. It takes itself pretty stupidly in the midst of combat. It doesn't say things like, "why do we need spectators for fights?" It doesn't play with why special combat systems exist in their universe for them to specifically do battle. It just takes the most basic shounen trumps and runs with it trying to half-assedly explain it through pseudo-science. Taking elements from other shows and putting the battle-shounen twist on them isn't deconstruction. Lots of anime that aren't Jojo's have "stand abilities" but they aren't deconstructing stands. ====================================== The Monogatari series is a coming of age story. Araragi starts off as a normal kid and gets bitten by a vampire turning super angsty and "edgy." He lives his life secluded and because of the influence of someone else, he realizes it's fun to be with other people and that he has a lot to learn about the world. The adults in the Monogatari series are so frighteningly competent even though they don't have any special powers because Araragi is still growing up as an adult. Him following in Hoshino's footsteps just goes to show that Araragi is deciding on what kind of adult he wants to be. Now for the elephant in the room. The fanservice. It's not that bad. I'm going to say it again. It's really really really not that bad. You're being very prudish. General Western Media doesn't have anything like that because everyone's really scared of their own sex organs, but if you watch Music Videos you'll be privy to more... explicit stuff then ecchi anime, and both exist for mass market consumption. The Monogatari series is good for you. Hopefully you'll build up a tolerance to this so you can enjoy more shows. There's also nothing wrong with letting those scenes make your enjoyment of the experience better. |
TitanAnteusFeb 2, 2016 1:02 PM
| I do not have many qualms with the Monogotari series, but MB was one of the most boring and over saturated manga that I have ever tried to read. I remember when it was just getting popular, people would claim that it is a deconstruction of the genre and that alone warranted praise for the series, which I find ironic, because I am mostly into this hobby for entertainment not enlightenment, so when a series bores me to death, I find it the very opposite of being praiseworthy. I always thought to myself that when people need to use the well-it-is-a-commentary/deconstruction-of-this-and-that argument, they are trying to validate something that is already invalid in the eyes of other viewers. What I mean by this is that unless you can specifically note each aspect of the show that qualifies praise, you should try to not have to fall back on such an argument, because it means nothing. Personally I do not see the merit in long-winded dialogue and the over exaggeration of tropes and archetypes in a battle shounen that fails to even present well-drawn action sequences by presenting over-the-top superpowers. There was no fun in that series whatsoever. Every single chapter felt like a chore and it was never entertaining and it never gave me the impression that it was well written. If you want to satirize something, do it in an entertaining way. |
HolybaptiserFeb 2, 2016 1:02 PM
I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
| I'm not a great judge of these things, honestly. Often said: I haven't seen Medaka but it already sounds annoying. lol I agree |
| I don't even know what you talking about fam. Like, woot? |
codephat said: I'm not a great judge of these things, honestly. Often said: I haven't seen Medaka but it already sounds annoying. lol I agree The non battle-shounen chapters are the best ones. |
TitanAnteus said: mfw you don't understand what deconstruction isTimberCloud said: I wanted to know what you think about that. Medaka Box wants to "deconstruct" battle shonen like Evangelion did with mecha (damn, how many animes tried to "deconstruct" a genre since then?) but ends up just being an exxageration of shonen tropes, though still funny (don't tell me that references to other mangas are a selling point: they're everywhere nowadays). Monogatari (of which for now I've only seen the anime, maybe the novel is better) instead wants to be real deep in describing youth problems, but fanservice is just too invasive and makes loots of scenes very lame if you don't care for ecchi. Some arcs are interesting, but wouldn't have been better to keep fanservice low and spending more time on character development? I don't think people understand what deconstruction is. I' don't reallt want to act as a catalyst for this argument all over again, but no anime is a deconstruction. That is not deconstruction. As far as I know, it's a subversion. |
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AzureDaora said: mfw you don't understand what deconstruction is I' don't reallt want to act as a catalyst for this argument all over again, but no anime is a deconstruction. That is not deconstruction. As far as I know, it's a subversion. I don't know where you got that from but. internet said: The definition of subversion is given by Merriam-Webster as "a systematic attempt to overthrow or undermine a government or political system by persons working secretly from within." This definition calls attention to the most prevalent characteristic of subversive literature. Subversive literature is characteristically used to rebel against someone or something, such as the government, persons in authority or parental figures in children's literature. Subversive literature can also be used to go against common moral theories, such as gay rights issues or opinions on underage alcohol consumption. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Deconstruction tvtropes said: The simplest and most common method of applying Deconstruction to tropes in fiction among general audiences and fan bases, and the method most relevant to TV Tropes, takes the form of questioning "How would this trope play out with Real Life consequences applied to it?" or "What would cause this trope to appear in Real Life?" Eva is an example in the anime section. |
TitanAnteus said: Because citing TVtropes is a good idea.AzureDaora said: mfw you don't understand what deconstruction is I' don't reallt want to act as a catalyst for this argument all over again, but no anime is a deconstruction. That is not deconstruction. As far as I know, it's a subversion. I don't know where you got that from but. internet said: The definition of subversion is given by Merriam-Webster as "a systematic attempt to overthrow or undermine a government or political system by persons working secretly from within." This definition calls attention to the most prevalent characteristic of subversive literature. Subversive literature is characteristically used to rebel against someone or something, such as the government, persons in authority or parental figures in children's literature. Subversive literature can also be used to go against common moral theories, such as gay rights issues or opinions on underage alcohol consumption. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Deconstruction tvtropes said: The simplest and most common method of applying Deconstruction to tropes in fiction among general audiences and fan bases, and the method most relevant to TV Tropes, takes the form of questioning "How would this trope play out with Real Life consequences applied to it?" or "What would cause this trope to appear in Real Life?" Eva is an example in the anime section. I would post a wall of text explaining this situation from a certain hungry person, but he'd likely get triggered like he always does so all you need to know is that deconstruction is not what you describe to be but rather is the lack of structure in writing. In simpler terms, the lack of tropes and defined, err, "definitions". Calling something a deconstruction can already void it of becoming one. This is according to Jacques Derrida. |
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AzureDaora said: TitanAnteu-s said: Because citing TVtropes is a good idea.I don't know where you got that from but. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Deconstruction Eva is an example in the anime section. I would post a wall of text explaining this situation from a certain hungry person, but he'd likely get triggered like he always does so all you need to know is that deconstruction is not what you describe to be but rather is the lack of structure in writing. In simpler terms, the lack of tropes and defined, err, "definitions". Calling something a deconstruction can already void it of becoming one. This is according to Jacques Derrida. That's so dumb and ambiguous. Actually it's completely IMPRACTICAL. There's no need for the word to exist, if the label causes it to change. I don't care if I'm wrong then. I'll stick to the TV tropes definition. You can stick to your underground definition while my lesser developed brain stick to one that makes sense, and is more commonly thought of than yours. |
TitanAnteus said: then why use that word when you can use the actual right term, subversion?AzureDaora said: Because citing TVtropes is a good idea. I would post a wall of text explaining this situation from a certain hungry person, but he'd likely get triggered like he always does so all you need to know is that deconstruction is not what you describe to be but rather is the lack of structure in writing. In simpler terms, the lack of tropes and defined, err, "definitions". Calling something a deconstruction can already void it of becoming one. This is according to Jacques Derrida. That's so dumb and ambiguous. Actually it's completely IMPRACTICAL. There's no need for the word to exist, if the label causes it to change. I don't care if I'm wrong then. I'll stick to the TV tropes definition. You can stick to your underground definition while my lesser developed brain stick to one that makes sense, and is more commonly thought of than yours. |
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AzureDaora said: TitanAnteus said: then why use that word when you can use the actual right term, subversion?That's so dumb and ambiguous. Actually it's completely IMPRACTICAL. There's no need for the word to exist, if the label causes it to change. I don't care if I'm wrong then. I'll stick to the TV tropes definition. You can stick to your underground definition while my lesser developed brain stick to one that makes sense, and is more commonly thought of than yours. Because subversion just means using you setup a trope in your work and then you don't use it. Faithful to it's name, it means to undermine specific elements of a show. Eva doesn't undermine Giant Robots. It still treats the Giant Robots with respect and doesn't say they're impractical machines humanity shouldn't even be using. It doesn't undermine the characters fighting off an unknown evil either. The most subversive anime I can think of is Nana, since it undermines all preconceptions people have about anime romance. It doesn't deconstruct them because you don't learn why romance anime writers write with the tropes they do from watching Nana. You just know that it gives you the expectation that, that's what's going to happen and then shits on it. |
TitanAnteus said: What?AzureDaora said: then why use that word when you can use the actual right term, subversion? Because subversion just means using you setup a trope in your work and then you don't use it. Faithful to it's name, it means to undermine specific elements of a show. Eva doesn't undermine Giant Robots. It still treats the Giant Robots with respect and doesn't say they're impractical machines humanity shouldn't even be using. It doesn't undermine the characters fighting off an unknown evil either. The most subversive anime I can think of is Nana, since it undermines all preconceptions people have about anime romance. It doesn't deconstruct them because you don't learn why romance anime writers write with the tropes they do from watching Nana. You just know that it gives you the expectation that, that's what's going to happen and then shits on it. Eva is a subversion because it subverts the cliche/trope of "robots are kewl stuffz". Subversion essentially takes an element of a show and doesn't simply undermine it and "not use it" (I don't know where you got this), but using it in a manner to which it is the opposite of what is expected; in a broader sense, use it "the way it's not supposed to be used". I should explain to you more but fuck it I'm going to school, I'm just going to do this and hope for the best: @Zergneedsfood |
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| Oh god not another deconstruction definition argument. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
AzureDaora said: TitanAnteus said: What?Because subversion just means using you setup a trope in your work and then you don't use it. Faithful to it's name, it means to undermine specific elements of a show. Eva doesn't undermine Giant Robots. It still treats the Giant Robots with respect and doesn't say they're impractical machines humanity shouldn't even be using. It doesn't undermine the characters fighting off an unknown evil either. The most subversive anime I can think of is Nana, since it undermines all preconceptions people have about anime romance. It doesn't deconstruct them because you don't learn why romance anime writers write with the tropes they do from watching Nana. You just know that it gives you the expectation that, that's what's going to happen and then shits on it. Eva is a subversion because it subverts the cliche/trope of "robots are kewl stuffz". Subversion essentially takes an element of a show and doesn't simply undermine it and "not use it" (I don't know where you got this), but using it in a manner to which it is the opposite of what is expected; in a broader sense, use it "the way it's not supposed to be used". I should explain to you more but fuck it I'm going to school, I'm just going to do this and hope for the best: @Zergneedsfood By "it", I meant the trope. Nana still has romance for god's sake, but the romance is subverted because it's not the romance you'd expect from anime traiditionally. It setups the tropey romance and then doesn't use it. Eva's robots aren't all that special, and they aren't used as the opposite of what is expected either. Eva's robots are still cool and badass. They do amazing things, have amazing equipment and partake in engaging battles. Mecha Anime have weird machines in general. Look, by your definition a Cabin In The Woods is subversion because it uses horror movie cliches in a manner that is the opposite of what is expected, when that movie is the goto movie for people talking about Deconstruction. |
| IMHO, they are, but doesn't meant it automaticaly bad. that is also what make his series soo interesting. understanding the lond ass dialogue, make your own interpretation, and find it conclusion by your self is really interesting. make me remeber i need to watch katanagatari and finishing zeregoto series. agreed. the time when they solve the request from another student is my favorite, lOl. like sket dance but with more complex story and more serious. |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
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