Hahalollawl said: This is a relatively new phenomenon. And if I am not mistaken was first observed earlier this year for the anime Crime Edge. Everyone, including almost the whole 2ch sales thread (and me), was thrown off guard by how far the actual sales came much lower than Stalker estimate. And the cause was traced back to some big jumps that occurred in Amazon ranking earlier (at that time it looked a bit odd but almost no one thought the jump was not real as people put it as some delayed new episode boost). Since then, as people get more alert, a few more titles were suspected of being hit by the same prank. What the **** is wrong with people, don't they have something better to do than put in orders they don't intend to pay for? What's the point, to crush people with disappointment? Or do studios actually pay attention to these predictions or something? Hahalollawl said: I think the result of this fall cour is gong to be underwhelming and lackluster, yes. As for turnaround, you know we have been talking about Kill la Kill seems to be losing a bit of vigor and momentum lately, with estimate falling from >10k to 7k or so? I read an interview with the show's staff today and they are saying the second part of the show (that is the second cour meaning winter 2014) is the REAL DEAL and it would shock and thrill people to no end. Now unlike Coppelion, this show is among the most popular shows this cour and keeps a lot of watchers following it every week, so if the show really turns out to be as awesome as the staff are hyping it is still possible for it to generate a strong momentum to bring its sales back up to a higher tier (say >10k or even higher).Anyways, I suspected that it was getting late in the season for shows to break out. So I guess the sales for fall are going to be low overall then? I suppose that's a bit disappointing, because I thought this season had quite a good collection of shows...I hope these kinds of results dont discourage them in the future, or worse, bankrupt them. And yes I know they can deal with some weak shows, but I would guess that even the studios will start to face difficulties if it's just failure after failure after failure... In Coppelion's case, I think too many people have dropped the show so the number of potential buyers at the margin is gong to be few in number. And once dropped it is unlikely that it will be picked up again - one constant lament among watchers of Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio is that many may have dropped the show after ep.1 because it did not start out so interesting (particularly compared to what comes afterwards) or people had issues with it being done in full CGI (though the CG actually gets better later in the show and it is not that hard to get used to), and this may have had an effect to its sales. So even for one of the most talked about shows in this cour, the expectation is that people who have dropped the show are not likely to pick it up again even after hearing the latest buzz (and this has something to do with the watching behavior of fans in Japan, who are much less likely to go to legally dubious streaming/download sites to watch anime, and usually they do not have that much time anyway, so a dropped show is more likely to stay dropped). |
symbvNov 16, 2013 10:18 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
Hahalollawl said: What the **** is wrong with people, don't they have something better to do than put in orders they don't intend to pay for? What's the point, to crush people with disappointment? Or do studios actually pay attention to these predictions or something? . Sadly, crime edge was hit really hard with this. It was overestimated by 900%~ Nothing like that happened in summer though. |
rederoinNov 16, 2013 9:38 AM
symbv said: This is a relatively new phenomenon. And if I am not mistaken was first observed earlier this year for the anime Crime Edge. Everyone, including almost the whole 2ch sales thread (and me), was thrown off guard by how far the actual sales came much lower than Stalker estimate. And the cause was traced back to some big jumps that occurred in Amazon ranking earlier (at that time it looked a bit odd but almost no one thought the jump was not real as people put it as some delayed new episode boost). Since then, as people get more alert, a few more titles were suspected of being hit by the same prank. And of course it having such a big impact once makes more people aware that they can do this, and so it becomes more likely to happen again in the future. |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
rederoin said: VioLink said: rederoin said: * 21,107 / * 20,967 ★ (***, 318 pt) 2013/11/27 COPPELION v1 [BD] * 25,833 / * 25,511 ○ (***, 151 pt) 2013/11/27 COPPELION v1 [DVD] Coppelion sure is doing amazing. At least the anime is amazing. With no chance in hell for a 2nd season. Just when it started getting good ;_; For me it was good from the get go, but yeah it that the chances of a season 2 happening are low. |
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| Haha, Coppelion. Less Filter, better writing, decent characters. GoHands should remember those 3 tips for the future. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| The predictions, no. But they would very likely care about the number of preorders they get, and if these all suddenly disappear a few days before the series goes on sale - which may well be after the retailers have confirmed the number they want to order, many of whom base this off the number of preorders they receive, then it can really screw things up. |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
| Certainly they do care about pre-orders. One, they may print coasters to met pre-order 'demand' which evaporates which creates unsold inventory. Secondly, they may change their marketing plans depending on the pre-order status. It isn't just shits and giggles when people mess with the system. |
| Oricon Daily All-Genre Top 30 DVD/Top 20 BD Rankings for Nov 16. DVD *11 *12 *13 *14 *15 *16 *17 週 *30 *** *** *** *** *15 *** | -- | ONE PIECE FILM Z *18 *25 *26 *** *20 *16 *** | -- | Crayon Shin-chan Movie 21 **3 *15 *12 *18 *19 *30 *** | -- | Free！3 *24 *** *** *29 *22 *** *** | -- | Tonari no Totoro BD *11 *12 *13 *14 *15 *16 *17 週 *10 *** *13 *11 *** **6 *** | -- | Madoka Movies Limited Edition **1 *11 **8 **9 **9 *13 *** | -- | Free！3 **6 *15 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Hataraku Maou-sama！5 **5 *16 *** *** *** *** *** | -- | SymphogearG 2 *14 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Shingeki 4 *16 *** *** *** *** *** *** | -- | Infinite Stratos 2 1 |
The News Club: Quality News/Discussion (anime, CDs, manga, novels, games, seiyuu), & sales data (daily, weekly, mid-year, yearly). |
| ^^^ SnK 5 comes out on the 20th and it's gonna be a big one! *15位/*15位 ★ (*22,707 pt) [*,425予約] 13/11/20 進撃の巨人 5 [初回特典:80P「進撃の巨人」スペシャルフルカラーコミック(原作:諫山創)] [Blu-ray] *66位/*72位 ○ (*10,769 pt) [*,*65予約] 13/11/20 進撃の巨人 5 [初回特典:80P「進撃の巨人」スペシャルフルカラーコミック(原作:諫山創)] [DVD] Includes 80 page special full color manga which generally boosts these volumes. |
hpulleyNov 17, 2013 7:00 AM
| ^^^ No new reveals as the full color chapters are ones upon which the episodes on the disc were taken from. So perhaps that dulls its value a bit, not new material, just colorized. Yep, volume 6 with the Nitroplus VNs should be another good one. Good bonuses, they're doing it right with SnK: *55位/*60位 ★ (*20,656 pt) [*,473予約] 13/12/18 進撃の巨人 6 [初回特典:Blu-ray Disc ビジュアルノベル「リヴァイ&エルヴィン過去編」他(制作協力:ニトロプラス、プロダクション・I.G)] Volume 7 Desk School Calendar, perhaps not such an enticing bonus: *89位/*90位 ★ (*13,709 pt) [*,312予約] 14/01/15 進撃の巨人 7 [初回特典:TVアニメ「進撃の巨人」卓上スクールカレンダー] [Blu-ray] Volume 4 had a soundtrack CD which I thought would be popular. |
hpulleyNov 17, 2013 7:20 AM
| Magi seems to have shot up the rankings. |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
jmal said: (except maybe super super low production value shorts) called teekyuu. |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
jmal said: Well, it's obvious that there's more to anime being profitable than BDs alone. On average a show selling 3k should do well enough in other fields to indeed break even. Be it manga, CDs, merchandise... Of course, proportions vary but I doubt there's a single show which succeeds at BDs/DVDs but utterly fails everywhere else. Not to mention we only have data of BDs/DVDs 99,9% of the time, so there's no use in talking about other stuff. When saying "It sold 3k so it broke even." it actually means "It sold 3k BDs/DVDs, xxx figues, yyy posters, zzz dakis and provided aaa-bbb boost to source materials but we do not know those values and can only sometimes estimate last one with varying accuracy. Oh, we also often know how many CDs it sold but have no idea how much of it goes to production committee. But who cares about these guesstimates, experience tells us that for this kind of show 3k should be enough because in the past similar examples gained an OVA or something selling a bit more had a sequel. Oh, and that other show which sold less but provided unusual boost to manga also got sequel so it somewhat fits. Everything depends but if this show sold 3k which is pretty decent number, it's likely doing decently in other fields as well and I noticed some dakis with it at online stores and CDs ranked, so it probably broke even."Also no show breaks even at 3,000 disc sales alone (except maybe super super low production value shorts) so most talk of break even points is pure speculation. Even 10,000 isn't necessarily enough to cover all production costs on disc sales alone, but that's why disc sales are only one revenue stream among many. More or less. e: I'm looking at my little half-assed barely-touching-the-topic elaboration and I hope most of you can see why "It sold 3k so it broke even." is preferred. |
ProgeuszNov 17, 2013 2:20 PM
| I think it's fine. If someone isn't really interested in sales and only stumbles upon such thread, info about amount of BDs/DVDs should suffice (as long as it's typical show). It's also enough for people who understand the industry because they know what is implied. People in general like to simplify, things are easier to grasp when they are shown in a way concentrating on just one aspect (which is still three numbers - BDs, DVDs, total - and that alone proves to be too much for many). When someone believing BDs are everything starts discussing the topic, that's when he should be corrected. If he doesn't listen there would be no hope anyway. If he does, there's a point to explaining him how things work and possibility of another enthusiast joining the ranks. Sure, it would be better if everyone knew this and there were no misunderstandings but I think it's too unrealistic. You would need a lot of effort to try getting rid of misconceptions and the probability of success on greater scale is still very low. That's why I believe it's preferred to take it easy and not necessarily write out what is implied and only react with details when someone shows interest in the topic. It'll most likely take much longer that way for anime fans to understand the industry better but I think it's more efficient approach. Oh, "non-video merch" is short and works well, I like it. |
| I think Takuan_Soho's "long explanation" is well said, although I am not sure about the part "based on industry standards, 4,000 discs seems to be the level where all of these competing interests seem to be relatively happy." because I don't think we have enough data to assert that besides guessing that since 4000 is an above-average sales it must mean that things do not look bad to the production committee. And I have a few lines of short summary to say about the whole Manabi Line and break-even point issue 1. There is no simple break-even point we can tell from the BD/DVD sales date alone. Anybody who talks about XXX does not sell enough to break-even because it sold <3k does not know what he is talking about. One-number-fit-all "break-even point" is always a myth. 2. That said, very good BD/DVD sales is a sufficient condition for an anime to be called successful. It is just that it is not a necessary condition. A very good sales data of BD/DVD sales always mean the project is a success, if only because of the fact that if expensive BD/DVDs sell well, manga/LN or merchandise are most likely to sell well too. On the other hand, the lower the BD/DVD sales, the less likely products in the franchise would sell well, though how well the franchise does in other areas is not as easy to tell. 3. I do not really mind sticking with the term Manabi-Line. To be honest, who knows what "Manabi" means anyway? It is just a fancy term to separate relatively successful anime (in sales) from the less successful ones. People using 3k or whatever as break-even point very often do not even use the term. So drawing a 3k line or manabi line does not really change what those (misguided) people want to say and I would just keep using Manabi-line as a nod to a 2ch tradition. And I agree with Progeusz that we should not worry too much about this manabi thing (although I would disagree that saying "It sold 3k so it broke even." is preferred because it will indeed cause confusion) Hahalollawl said: It is possible. It is easy to see how it can come to pass. Take an anime adapted from a manga. The franchise owner would be the manga publisher, so it is likely that it will get to get money from sales of its merchandise. However, the merchandise maker is unlikely to get money from sales of the manga. So if the sales of merchandise is not good but sales of manga gets a good boost, the manga publisher will be happy but not so the merchandise maker. I have a question actually, is it possible for a show produced by a combination of companies on a production committee to be deemed successful for some of the companies on the committee but not others? |
symbvNov 17, 2013 9:21 PM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
Takuan_Soho said: Since manabi line is 2899, rounding up would mean 3k. I thought you moved it up to 4k just to give a buffer so that there is a higher likelihood that your guess that different parties in the production committee are satisfied is true. Correct me if it was not your intention. I confess that I picked 4K as a round up of the "manabi" line. I think that line is something that is "generally" true, but as with all averages it means very little on an animation by animation basis. Takuan_Soho said: You are generally right. To be precise, v8 sold 33k in its first week and v7 was not even ranked at all. Given the threshold for the week of v7 release was a bit below 13k we could tell that v7 sold <13k in its first week of release. To Illustrate: the series Aoki Hagane no Arpeggio: Ars Nova has not sold a single BD yet, however vol 8 sold 20K more upon release than vol 7, a 100% increase (Symbv, please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe I read this on the book release thread). Takuan_Soho said: Precisely. For a manga adaptation, the manga publisher is always a part of production committee which means it always pays into the cost of making the anime. However, there is no sufficient information to tell how much of the cost is usually paid by the publisher and what a profit-sharing agreement for the publisher is usually, and yet I think the two points above are pretty reasonable conclusions.To stress, these numbers are estimates and are used for illustration purposes only. But it does show that 1) a publisher could pay the production studio several 100 thousand dollars to animate a marginally successful series and 2) what the publisher considers a success is not connected to what the production studio considers a success. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: Didn't it come from Manabi Straight having sold 2899 copies for vol1 and breaking even apparently, hence being called 'Manabi' Line? At least that's what I know.3. I do not really mind sticking with the term Manabi-Line. To be honest, who knows what "Manabi" means anyway? It is just a fancy term to separate relatively successful anime (in sales) from the less successful ones. |
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belatkuro said: It sold 2899 for vol.1 but there is never any evidence that it broke even (or not broke even). The first part of your statement is true but the second part is a myth. And almost nobody in Japan now mentions the Manabi line as a break-even point. For more details, I wrote more about manabi line in a previous thread:symbv said: Didn't it come from Manabi Straight having sold 2899 copies for vol1 and breaking even apparently, hence being called 'Manabi' Line? At least that's what I know.3. I do not really mind sticking with the term Manabi-Line. To be honest, who knows what "Manabi" means anyway? It is just a fancy term to separate relatively successful anime (in sales) from the less successful ones. http://origin.myanimelist.net/forum/index.php?topicid=523817&show=140#msg18677876 |
symbvNov 18, 2013 1:30 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
Hahalollawl said: People placed way too much imagination or wishful thinking behind manabi-line. Manabi-line is still used in 2ch sales discussion because it has been used for so long and it became sort of a tradition in BD/DVD sales discussion, and there the context is not much about breakeven. Besides, as some others pointed out in this thread, the line also neatly puts roughly half (or more precisely, somewhat more than half) the titles in a cour above it so it is a nice benchmark line to separate the relatively successful titles from the less successful ones. LOL seriously? That's it? That's all that's behind the famed "Manabi Line"? I thought there would at least be something a bit more concrete than that...Why even attach any significance at all to the Manabi line then? Hahalollawl said: One way myth is created is by miscommunication and erroneous reporting, as well as by people wanting to believe something. Look this way and you can see why the idea of a break-even line took hold because the idea is so simple and tempting, particularly for those who do not spend time to understand the anime industry and business but want to make comments about this and that studio or this and that work (and there are so many of them around). I thought maybe someone with particular knowledge might have commented off hand about it breaking even and thus the "Manabi Line" was born or something like that, but we don't even know that it broke even? Sheesh. Hahalollawl said: That is what I have been doing. The 3000 line (or the manabi line, both will do) is still useful in terms of separating the more successful titles from the less successful ones, and we can also use the number (or proportion) of titles making the 3000 (or manabi) line to compare the relative performance of one cour versus another.I still think I may use 3000 as sort of rough guideline for determining how well some shows that don't have high expectations are doing, |
symbvNov 18, 2013 6:51 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
scytheavatar said: No, no, no. You don't need 3k to break even. I only said it's safe to guess that something selling 3k broke even. You should remember that implications work one way, not both. There are many shows who don't really have to sell 3k or even sell at all (educational/cultural anime (I think Chihayafuru qualifies? nothing else comes to mind but I surely watched some), shows meant to promote source material (shoujo/josei) or toys (kids shows, BRS)). That's why I also said 3k should suffice for typical show, not every single one.Think a animenewsnetwork article has mentioned, a long time anime executive has said before that given enough time 70% of all shows can at least break even. If you need to sell 3k to break even then the anime industry wouldn't have been booming like it is today, because more than half of all shows sell less than that. There's near zero basis in that "3k" number, I have no idea why people are using Manabi Straight as some kind of benchmark. Without concern about genres, potential to rerun in TVs, etc. Your "Manabi Line hate" is blinding you, not the first time it happened, try to be wary of that. |
| it always depends on how expensive an anime is etc... if an Anime cost around $100.000/episode and has 13 eps, the anime has to sell an amount of total 21666 BDs/DVDs with an price of 60$. OR 3611 copies each volume (6) an anime that cost 150.000 and 25 eps 62.000 copies. only for bd/dvd sales without merchandise etc... i am curious how much Highschoo DXD f.e cost each episode and what the average price is each volume. :p |
NiQue_Nov 18, 2013 10:46 AM
jmal said: Well, I wonder where "the only purpose" came from. As I said, even in 2ch the manabi line is not used to describe break-even. And when people describe break-even in English speaking forums, I see people often use 3k line without mentioning the term "manabi line". So if even if the term is not used it is not as if people would stop talking about breakeven. symbv said: 3. I do not really mind sticking with the term Manabi-Line. To be honest, who knows what "Manabi" means anyway? The only purpose of the Manabi Line is to describe break-even, which is therefore the one thing almost everyone knows about it, and yet at the same time there's zero evidence that it is break-even so... it serves literally no purpose other than to confuse people. It's just a name that describes nothing. jmal said: Manabi line has special meaning in the development of BD/DVD sales discussion thread and its history, and I don't see any problem with keeping the tradition. Problem is people here come to associate a different special meaning to the term, but as I said, the term itself does not give rise to the concept of breakeven line. Without the term, people who do not know better will still use the 3k line to talk about breakeven line. And it's precisely because all "lines" are arbitrary that I prefer not to give them fancy-sounding names, because when you give something a specific name people understandably assume there's some special meaning to it when there isn't. jmal said: Problem is even those who are not new to BD/DVD sales discussion (and we have seen a couple of examples even here) still keeps to the 3k line as breakeven point. Manabi-line itself is not really the issue here, but something more entrenched and complicated.In general lately I've been trying to shy away from jargon that might be innocuous enough to people who already know a lot about sales, but rather misleading/confusing to new people (the exact people we should have in mind when talking about sales). |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
jmal said: phreeak said: it always depends on how expensive an anime is etc... Yes, the cost per episode (per minute really) is another complication that's not accounted for by a focus on unit sales. GJ-bu made ¥73,260,000 with a 3,275 average. LagRin (s1) made ¥112,460,000 with a 3,137 average. KoreZom (s1) made ¥166,510,000 with a 3,177 average. It's doubtful any one of these series cost drastically more than the other two to produce. I heard that GJ-bu had certain cost-saving measures that were used to significantly reduce production expenses. I doubt it offset the lower revenue (the Gj-bu revenue total is less than half of Korezom) but how much money do you think the director managed to save? |
| Check out the News Club for daily rankings, discussion on future CD and BD releases, manga and novels. New members are welcome! |
| Threshold for BD this week is 306 !! A historical low I believe. Now I am very very interested in the full list later this week as I have a feeling that some titles released long time back could make a comeback to the chart and tell us how much more they have sold in all the weeks they were absent from the chart. And I wonder if we are going to see any BD selling <100 in the full list.... On the other hand, the singles chart is full of titles with good sales. All the top 21 titles sold >10k !! Record shows this last happened 6 years ago. And for this we need to thank the bunch of IdolM@ster singles and other anime singles: *4 28796 NouCome OP 11 15045 IDOLM@STER CINDERELLA MASTER 021 12 13843 IDOLM@STER CINDERELLA MASTER 022 13 13503 IDOLM@STER CINDERELLA MASTER 024 15 13082 IDOLM@STER CINDERELLA MASTER 023 16 12999 IDOLM@STER CINDERELLA MASTER 025 18 11675 KuroBas2 ED 19 11559 Golden Time OP 21 10345 Kill la Kill OP 23 7676 Samurai Flemenco OP 29 4640 Daiya no A ED |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: 21 10345 Kill la Kill OP 23 7676 Samurai Flemenco OP Nice. |
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| Happy for Sweet Melty Love (NouCome OP) and Yui Horie's Golden Time OP/ED, both great discs to series which look like they will get only 1K Bluray/DVD sales sadly as both come from good light novel series but are not what the video disc buyers want apparently. jmal said: I guess the beautiful countryside stills aren't that expensive but Non Non Biyori feels like higher production value than average to me. ... I just can't see how GJ-bu would have cost much less to make than, say, Tamayura or Non Non Biyori or any other average production quality slice of life show. |
hpulleyNov 19, 2013 1:46 AM
jmal said: Did I ever mention utility?? No, a 3k line or manabi line serves similar purpose and utility, and people who want to find a break-even line will find either one useful for their pet theory or misguided grunges/hypes about the industry, the studios, the titles and the fans. I just opt for a revered tradition which went way earlier than "frt" (which actually has fallen from use while manabi line is still around). As I said, manabi line played an important part in the development of the sales thread discussion, and this is something that "frt" can never claim. Tradition != utility. The "frt" is a 2ch tradition too, and it's just as useless for measuring, well, anything. I don't want to use terminology just because it's a ~6 year old 2ch meme. To be honest, only less than a year ago you were still talking about using it out of a sense of nostalgia. I don't see how you were fine using a 5 year old 2ch meme then and now see it as such a problem that you have to turn so much against using it. |
symbvNov 19, 2013 1:52 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| No double post please. jmal said: Well, I do not see manabi line as the prime source and cause of the lack of understanding of sales. The issue goes way deeper than just a simple term. Those confusion you mentioned is not caused by manabi line itself. The root goes much deeper and manabi line comes only as an occasional manifestation of the general misunderstanding.after seeing how it's never actually helped anyone understand sales and only caused confusion (overandoverandoverandover), I've switched to being decidedly opposed to its use.. jmal said: Because you were not there when the 2ch sales discussion thread came into shape and started to look at the numbers and data in more systematic manner. So it is fine if now you find the nostalgic value has lost on you. I don't. So I will stick to the manabi line, even if it is for a personal nostalgia factor. symbv said: As I said, manabi line played an important part in the development of the sales thread discussion, and this is something that "frt" can never claim. But nobody can explain why it's important. It just "is". And as I said, I do not see it as a main cause of confusion. People who want to find a breakeven line will look for the 3k line, and those people often do not even recall the name of the term manabi line. |
symbvNov 19, 2013 1:59 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
jmal said: Just because you see it as worst or a major cause of the problem does not mean that everyone needs to agree with your analysis. I personally do not believe the manabi line is a major cause of confusion or misunderstanding where the 3k line is taken as the breakeven line. You can follow your analysis and go along with your like/dislike. I will keep to my own analysis and do what I see appropriate.You have a tendency to defend things by saying "well it's not the absolute worst thing" which while technically true is not a good defensel. I dislike unhelpful things period, whether they're just "bad" or "the worst". jmal said: I said important as being important in the history of sales discussion. As I said time and again before, the line indeed created a zone of relatively successful anime and the unsuccessful anime (in terms of sales) for comparison purpose. I never say it is important now - to me it is just as "important" as the 3k line. This has literally nothing to do with whether it's important. Old and early != important, it just = old. jmal said: Doesn't matter. If manabi line is as useful as 3k line and help (or not help) people understand sales as a 3k line, then I would opt for manabi line. Period.If it doesn't help people today understand sales, it's not important for use today. |
symbvNov 19, 2013 2:07 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
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