Evangelion: 3.0 You Can (Not) Redo Episode 1 Discussion

burgundian said:
I'm not sure how I feel about it, but I'm kind of disappointed.
It's not that the happy-ish direction of character development from 2.22 is turned upside down, I expected as much. Although, I expected something more subtle, not this giant middle finger towards the people who enjoyed 2.22, but whatever.
I guess, every problem boils down to the fact that this movie is too short, absurdly too short for it's scope. The previous movies had the original series to support them and could leave some things unsaid, there was also this dynamic of what what changed and omitted. This movie has to stand on it's own, yet it's the shortest one. Resulting from that is the complete lack of explanations and reducing nearly all characters to supporting roles with one or two scenes outside battles (so basically everyone is reduced to Mari). Not only there's no character development during the movie, there were 14 years of off-screen development and we don't know anything about it, because there's no real interaction between the suddenly supporting characters.
The thing that bothers me deeply - mystery for mystery's sake. I don't mind that 3.0 doesn't offer any explanations on the key plot points, but I hate that it created many irrelevant questions, doesn't even attempt to explain them and burdens the last movie with that task (or leaving them unanswered, don't know which is worse). I'm talking about things like:
- why 14 years?
- who placed Unit 01 on orbit, why, when and why in this coffin?
- how NERV - apparently staffed only by Gendou and Fuyutsuki, having problems with power supply, not having resources to even rebuild it's headquarters, with no support from SEELE, having just one prototype Eva, piloted by a clone with no initiative and with know whereabouts - is any match to Wille - organization capable of building Wunder, performing a space mission in a post-apocalyptic world that we couldn't organize today, possessing two Evas with top pilots and a mobile armada of warships?
- and how is it able to manufacture another Eva?
- why Wille was created at all - after the end of 2.22 there was no reason to suspect that the events were planned by Gendou (did Kaji spilled the beans?)?
And so on, dozens of questions that now have to be answered, preferably not in some twisted retcons to fit the plot of 4.0.

That means that 4.0 will have to explain everything 3.0 didn't explain, explain all not that important questions 3.0 created, show us how the characters and their relations developed in those 14 years and show some new development during the movie, after all this isn't a story just about Shinji. So basically, what they should have done in 2 movies, now has to be done in just the last one with added garbage from 3.0. I can't really see this done in a satisfactory way unless 4.0 will last at least 2,5 - 3 hours.

I also don't get Misato in this movie. At all. I lost a lot of respect for her. Among the people who blame Shinji, she's literally the last one having any right to do so. Actually, having no right at all. At the end of 2.22 she was like a mother to Shinji (Shin-chan!), he saved her life from Zeruel (doing what she expected him to do all along - piloting Eva on his own will) and she was basically cheering him to save Rei (let's not forget, that she did that being his commanding officer). Since Wille knows about Gendou agenda and even things like Rei's nature, being their leader she has to know that Shinji had no idea what was going to happen. In fact, she's more to blame for this since she was third in command and couldn't see what the purpose of NERV was. She also had 14 years to think about it, that's not some fresh, emotional thing. Yet, she's now all "Ikari Shinji-kun", couldn't be bothered to offer any explanation at all to Shinji and all the affection she showed towards him was not blowing his head of. That's beyond unbelievable character development.

1. What's up with the beginning of the series? Why the hell was Shinji sleeping in the flying space coffin?
2. Was there a scene with the REAL Rei and the fake Rei? I don't understand, but I thought I saw Rei in a tube.
3. why did Asuka have an eyepatch? Why was this not explained?
4. So wait, Kaworu is the first angel? AKA Adam? Why is he the thirteenth now??

Why was Touji's sister even introduced? Was Touji suppose to be of any significance at all?

Why did Asuka have that Eyepatch?

What happened to Rei?

What is Mari's role in all of this? Why was she even introduced?

Why is Asuka acting so friendly, even though human's DEMISE is about to come??

More to say, I don't understand Mari's purpose, there are so many contradictions in the movie... Like how they had to use civilians to manpower but they have a HUGE battalion of ships, and why did NO ONE, NO ONE but Kaworu explain to Shinji what the fuck was going on. That could've have avoided a lot of things.

I also don't get Misato in this movie. At all. I lost a lot of respect for her. Among the people who blame Shinji, she's literally the last one having any right to do so. Actually, having no right at all. At the end of 2.22 she was like a mother to Shinji (Shin-chan!), he saved her life from Zeruel (doing what she expected him to do all along - piloting Eva on his own will) and she was basically cheering him to save Rei (let's not forget, that she did that being his commanding officer). Since Wille knows about Gendou agenda and even things like Rei's nature, being their leader she has to know that Shinji had no idea what was going to happen. In fact, she's more to blame for this since she was third in command and couldn't see what the purpose of NERV was. She also had 14 years to think about it, that's not some fresh, emotional thing. Yet, she's now all "Ikari Shinji-kun", couldn't be bothered to offer any explanation at all to Shinji and all the affection she showed towards him was not blowing his head of. That's beyond unbelievable character development.

hyperknees91 said:


None of these questions are answered because they aren't suppose to be. Misato doesn't let Shinji learn anything on her side because she doesn't want him to break down (as it's obvious she still cares about him). Shinji doesn't learn anything on Nerves side because he doesn't really care to learn. All he cares about is redeeming himself and convincing himself that he saved the actual Rei.




She's pretty much living proof that 14 years have passed to Shinji (as Touji had referred to her as his kid sister). Touji significance was in movie 1, other than that he's just a good friend of Shinji's (Seeing Touji's shirt brings him to a state of shock, and further increases his anxiety afterall).



Not explained because Misato probably told her not to, and she herself probably doesn't want to blame Shinji for it if it is indeed his fault from 14 years ago. Just wait for movie 4 on this one.

Who knows. You'll learn in the next movie.



Mostly fanservice. But it's hinted that she must be as old as Gendou (as she refers to him by his first name and with a kun, unlike the puppy names she gives everyone else). Perhaps she knew Shinji's mother as well.



Because she likes Shinji? (at least as a friend). Thought this was obvious from movie 2. If you're asking why she was acting so unfriendly before, she was probably just putting on a front so he would be distanced from her and thus remain uninvolved from the situation. You can tell she's not actually that mad at him because she only acts angry when she's not in actual physical distance from him (she's behind glass and behind an eva beforehand).



Even Kaworu didn't explain everything to him (nor did Shinji really care to learn fully, which leads to disastor). And I already explained why the others didn't.




Like I explained to the other guy, the cold front is simply that...a cold front. It's obvious because everyone else in the world acts blatantly angry at him while she puts up a stoic front (and if you know her personality that's not even in her character). Obviously she and Asuka care for him if they are willing to save him from space even though they aren't even planning to use him for anything. Also she could have literally just killed him and saved themselves the trouble of anything further he could have done (because he is a threat) but she didn't. I'm not sure why anyone thinks she's actually acting like that because it's her honest feelings. There's no way Shinji wouldn't believe that he didn't save Rei or everyone at the end of the last movie and he would have never believed her even if she told him the truth.


And honestly why aren't all you're questions answered? Because that's not the point of these movies and never has been. Shinji's a 14 year old boy whose thrust into an obviously overly complicated situation that he could never fully understand and really...probably never cared to (this was the same in the original series). This is mostly about how his character develops in response to the situations that get put upon him. So yeah solving all the mysteries of the plot isn't gonna happen come movie 4.

For example, during the Asuka and Shinji fight. What was shinji doing during that whole thing? Not thinking that's for sure (because he was so driven by guilt to grab the spears). However what was Kaworu doing? Pretty much thinking the entire time because something was wrong. Had Shinji done the same disaster might not have taken place, but yeah...nothing was going his way and it's in his nature not to ask that many questions and just seek the result.

zephyyy said:


Evangelion, and why Hideaki Anno hates you

Maelis said:
This film is a definition of disappointment, if someone ask me how do I feel when I am disappointed, I will slap this movie onto their face and say go watch it (suppose that they know the plot of Eva).

At first I planed to write my thoughts about this movie but ... there are so many horrible things that my mind chooses to ignore and remove most of them all out of my memory. But I can say that this movie is about FAN SERVICE, FAN SERVICE, FAN SERVICE, just like in the preview at the end of Eva 2.0 ( we will give you a lots of fan service, if you guys check it again). Ano chose to overshadows the plots with the animation, bringing tons of eye candy moments, expensive CGI to blind the viewers, hoping them will somehow get caught up in masturbating their minds and forgot how terrible the story is. Even the existence of Mari is, well, fan service, she just do some support work, sing some random shit, make cute poses so that we fan boy could have another girl to masturbate to besides Asuka (now turning into a bitch) and Rei (back to being a doll resembling Shinji's mother whom is used by Gendo to satisfy his lust in place of his wife). In my opinion, these two aspects are the main reason why people love this movie.

Now get to the plot, it is horrible, double horrible, triple horrible, ultra horrible, horri-rampage-ble. While it does explain some things, it gives a thousands times the question to the viewers. I somehow thinks that Ano expect us to be psychics who can read his fucking minds and understand how messed up the anime is. Nothing more to say about this since people either ignore this aspect or don't understand anything, I just don't know why people say this is mind fucked since it is obviously just bad writing.

I generously gave this anime a 6/10 since I really enjoyed the animation and especially the sound tracks, other than that, this is a huge shame on the evangelion series

coolasj19 said:
This is what some of the people that are defending this movie sum up to.
"Those questions that weren't answered? Deal with it."
"It's meant to be confusing."
and, "The fourth movie will answer the questions."

Here's my response to it. If it's meant to be confusing, the direction this movie takes is stupid. Literally, the core concept of the movie and it's storytelling direction, is stupid. Confusing, is a word with negative connotations. Even IF the fourth movie answers these questions, this will still be a bad, confusing, movie.

coolasj19 said:
This is what some of the people that are defending this movie sum up to.
"Those questions that weren't answered? Deal with it."
"It's meant to be confusing."
and, "The fourth movie will answer the questions."

Here's my response to it. If it's meant to be confusing, the direction this movie takes is stupid. Literally, the core concept of the movie and it's storytelling direction, is stupid. Confusing, is a word with negative connotations. Even IF the fourth movie answers these questions, this will still be a bad, confusing, movie.

BNZniIkou said:
along with Asuka and Mari's pleasantly dysfunctional teamwork, but that's about it.

Swiftflash said:
I think I can't make my disappointment into words properly.

The whole movie was bullshit, and until we get to know, that we were trolled, and the whole after-impact word exist only in shinji's head, I won't accept it ^^''

Just what the hell, it's not even consistent any-more. At the end of 2.22 Kaworu stopped the third Impact, only for us to get "herp derp, he actuallt didn't and the prewiew was fake, lol" in third movie.

The plot is chaotic and almost impossible to get what's happening in one watch

After much thinking I'm only finding, that there is not much deepness, just bunch of random creepy scenes, and some good CGI fights, to look good for the eye. The plot make no sense.

And that "herp derp, Kaworu tell's me not to. I take the lances out, lol" my brain almost melted. Sure, I am so friendly with Kaworu, and I do iit only because he said me so. I will troll him now!

And that "oh, it's one of the only 3 people alive in nerv, and noone explained anything. I will bow and go away" just omg.

LaAmaya said:
+1 because it pretty graphics, +1 because gay. But overall bullshit, I am dissapoint. :|

Sasserdus said:
Gaaaahhh! Confused! I will have to watch all the movies in succession, again! Nevertheless, pretty good stuff, makes you ponder and wonder about it, which, in my opinion is good!

OhNasti said:
Is there actual people that enjoyed this movie?

SagaraYuzuru said:
I'm not entierly sure what to think of the movie. I'm still trying to wrap my head around everything that happened.



I have issues with what I saw. It's not the lack of information on WTF is going on, since if we will find out more in the next movie is something we have yet too see. My biggest problem was the sheer stupidity that the characters possessed during the fight for the spears.

I mean come one, Shinji was told by his co-pilot numerous of times that something was wrong, but he completely ignored it and continued his destiny as the world's biggest screw up. Then there is Asuka, who could at least try to warn the guy instead of yelling "Brat Shinji" and go on the offensive right off the bat. Heck, even Kawrou isn't speared thanks to the fact that he could be a little more specific with his warning.


Other than that, I think I'm cool with it. Maybe.

Tavor said:

*points to the poll*

Tavor said:

What was the extra point for?

June93 said:
actual character development

I don't get how people can dislike 3 but like 2 the most, 2 had the worst writing in the series. At least in 3 there was coherency, and actual character development outside of shinji and rei (who was more or less a plot device for shinji).

GodlyKyon said:

But yeah, everyone being a dick to Shinji makes no sense.

GodlyKyon said:

Gendou expecting Shinji to pilot the va makes no sense.

GodlyKyon said:

Shinji no listening to Kaworu makes no sense.

GodlyKyon said:

Mari and Asuka expecting him to help Asuka when she LITERALLY TRIED TO KILL HIM a few seconds ago makes no sense.

GodlyKyon said:

Rei not killing Misato in the grabbing Shinji scene makes no sense.

GodlyKyon said:

the 14 year old skip makes no sense.

GodlyKyon said:

Shinji being in ORBIT(or we are led to believe) for FOURTEEN, FOURTEEN FUCKING YEARS makes no sense.

GodlyKyon said:

Oh, also, I DO NOT GET why did Kaworu wear that bomb necklace. I mean, that's Misato's FUCKING KILLING DEVICE. He could've just threw it to the side, but noooo! You had to put it on!

DmonHiro said:

Everyone knows Shinji caused 3rd impact. They all hate him.

This is no different then every other time Gendou just tells someone to do something. That's just who he is. He never explained why he orders things, and he gave orders people were not likely yo follow.

He was desperate to fix things. He honestly thought that he would save everyone by doing that. It matches with 2.0 when he initiated 3rd impact.

This one you can have.

Unless Gendou ordered her to kill Misato, she wasn't going to do it. She only did what she was ordered. Nothing more, since she seemed to be incapable of making decisions. Unless Gendou said "And if you see Misato, kill her", it makes perfect sense.

Could have been any number of years.

Why not?

He did it to show that he would take Shinji's sins upon himself. It might also have been for insurance, since it wasn't Misato that blew it up, he did it himself.

OhNasti said:

1. Treating Shinji like an enemy is understandable. Not explaining what the hell was going on wasn't. From his POV, all he did was try to save Rei. He has no clue what happened after. Considering that he's a big enough of a threat that you need to strap a bomb to him, keeping him in the dark was not a good idea. All they had to do was to sit him down and tell him:
a) We are not NERV. We are fighting NERV.
b) Your father needs you and Unit 01 to trigger 4th impact and wipe out what's left of humanity.
c) Rei is dead. There are several clones of Rei being used by Gendou. Do not be fooled, they are not the same Rei.

. Shinji pulling out the lances after Kworu told him not to makes no sense, even if he WAS desperate. Kaworu was the one person who he seemed to trust, but he still ignored him. Why would Kaworu tell him to stop unless is was something serious.

6. Why WERE Asuka and Mari expecting Shinji to help them? They treated him like shit and tried to kill him.

June93 said:
Miscommunication is a main theme in Q.

June93 said:
Miscommunication is a main theme in Q.

Now it gets weird, if it wasn't already. Someone else said that Mari could be a clone of Asuka's mother, or Asuka's step-sister. Either of these are also a strong possibilities. Asuka's mother shared a similar fate as Yui. Asuka's parents couldn't have children, so they adopted her. But Asuka's father had a mistress and those two had a daughter (Mari?).

I have much more to say, but unfortunately, I have a life to live. And ultimately, that's the REAL reason Anno created NGE. He was disgusted with the Otaku lifestyle and wanted to create something that would open peoples' eyes to how harmful it was to society. Unfortunately this was an epic backfire. He himself said he would destroy NGE. So with the result of Eva 3, and looking at how many people disliked it, it looks like many of you made him happy. I'm a big fan of the entire series. And I'll probably be hated for this, but I actually liked Eva 3. What is NGE w/o mindfucks and unanswered questions?

hyperknees91 said:


Interesting, didn't think of that. Any idea how old Asuka's mother could be? She refers to Gendou by his first name so I'm guessing Mari must be around the same age.



I'm kind of curious how you reached that conclusion. Perhaps you can go into more detail because that's not something I ever really caught.

But yeah I'm not really to into understanding the entire universe working of evangelion, because like you said, it's probably impossible. Plus I really don't feel like that's the point of the story anyway.

mvetS said:
Why didn't kaworu flush the choker down the toilet

Rikishi said:
This was the most disappointing thing since Star Wars Episode One.

mvetS said:
Why didn't kaworu flush the choker down the toilet

Vaanskylord said:
Uh, I'm really disappointed. To think a few hours ago I was so hyped to see the blu ray had been subbed. Everyone's pretty much asked all the questions already but seriously what's the point of Mari? She feels so... unnecessary. I'm constantly forgetting she even exists.

DmonHiro said:

Insurance. And it payed off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hideaki_Anno
Read the part about Neon Genesis Evangelion if nothing else.

http://chirart.tumblr.com/post/37808402478/evangelion-and-why-hideaki-anno-hates-you
Read the whole article.

Those are just a couple things that prove this is the case. Please read them....they're entertaining if nothing else.

hyperknees91 said:


You know I had a theory that EoE was like MGS2 was to video games. Didn't know that was actually true haha.

These articles are great and just make me like the series even more, I always thought he wanted to create a realistic setting of mecha and harem on how it would believably play out. But I never thought it was because of the otaku lifestyle (though it makes sense, as it can get a little out of hand). I never understood why people didn't like the original anime ending as it seemed pretty appropriate, but whatever.

Actually you know...this makes sense with Asuka's final line in end of evangelion. She say's "how disgusting", but when anno asked her how to deliver it he described the situation as a guy coming into a girls room with the intention of raping her, but not raping her and just masturbating. This is what Shinji does earlier in the movie and also what Otaku's metaphorically do to anime girls. When she said "disgusting" and anno is described to have sighed and say "I thought as much" it's pretty much saying that he really does feel that otaku's are no good. Damnnnnnn that is good stuff.

Thanks for the share!