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Nov 15, 2012 8:22 PM
#1

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THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER.
----------------------------------------
Brother love, which Vincent still cannot accept it, it seems. Nice, Break!!

Not only he lost his left arm, he also made contract with Raven (again?)!! And that seal has no time... So sweet that Gil accepts Oz the way he is even if he's "fake".
I Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!!
Nov 22, 2012 3:05 PM
#2

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2675
Nice to see that Gil accepts Oz whether he is a "fake" or not

Why do i feel like Oscar will betray them T_T
Nov 22, 2012 7:53 PM
#3

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May 2011
5184
That was nice brother love there.

Oscar's arrive. Am I sensing something big will happen?
Nov 22, 2012 8:00 PM
#4

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49
Hm. That really seems to be my first thought on this chapter, 'hm'. I've read it at least five times already and I'm still not sure what to make of it.

Dodo calls Rufus 'ru-kun'. At the very least that made this chapter worth reading, I cracked up, it's adorable, but makes me miss dear Cheryl.

hmm.

InfiniteDestiny said:


Why do i feel like Oscar will betray them T_T


Because a) there's been a general turn for the better and given this series few people trust it will last, and b) the ending tag line of this chapter is "is someone coming to their rescue? Well, that should be apparent, and drawing that much attention to it is suspicious c) This is pandora hearts, ergo any 'good' character should be taken with a healthy pinch of salt d) his expression.

At the same time, I don't get the feeling Oscar will betray them - the expectation that every character in this series has some sort of dark secret is kind of over the top, and given what he just learned he has every reason for stress and strain to be on his face - but there's definitely some suspicion that he might.

I wish this chapter was longer. I really do.

Gil. Oh, Gil. I still don't like your character development, not at all, but it didn't anger me in this chapter, which is good. I almost said 'didn't disappoint me either', but there would have to be some faith in it in order for me to be disappointed, and I lost every ounce of that in the last chapter. At least I'm starting to accept it, and then I have far less of a problem. Gil's character has gone from being personally really intriguing and compelling to entirely 'meh?' Nothing's perfect, life goes on.

Something that stood out to me in this chapter was Gil talking about relationships with chains, mostly because it seems so out of the blue, and... I dunno, a bit un-Gilbert ish. A bit of his one time role as Glen's successor coming through, I suppose. Hm. This chapter is just so 'hm'. I don't know whether I regard the bit with Gil and the chains as 'nice' or 'odd' or cheesy or... I just don't know.

What I do know, though, is that I don't blame Glen one bit in this chapter, I enjoyed his frustration and condescension towards Pandora and there stupid contraptions, and I hope/wish there won't be ill will towards him. And really, I find myself kind-of-sort-of-maybe rooting for him.

And! And, and and! Isn't the title page illustration exciting?! When I first glimpsed it, it seemed so epic and intense I immediately skipped to the next page (thinking iit might be a fancoloring of a later page (like in 73) and I didn't want to be spoiled). Looking back at it... Well, it's exciting! The clock tower from the first volume, the mysterious crown - like the one on the sixth volume cover - on the pendulum - wherever could that be going? Oh, please don't let the answer be nowhere! - the multitude of clocks, and although I'm wary of timetravel, I really wouldn't mind PH dabbling in it. I mean, it's been said multiple times that Glen has the power to change the world. So whyever can't he?

The title - of all the 'hmm' things in this chapter, why is it called "falling?" Seriously, other than the cover illustration of Oz falling into Gil's arm, I don't get it. Why? What, falling, as in falling action? Alright, I seriously doubt PH would break the 4th wall like that, but, still.

Vincent! You're either a moron who needs a hug, or an idiot who needs a slap. Which of those, I'm not quite sure as of yet. At the very least, you're interesting. Was anyone else reminded of Gil and Vince's reunion in volume three where Vince reached for Gil and was slapped away? Interesting parallel/reversal whatever. Also, Gil, I'm glad you've finally done something to support your little brother. I mean, aside from jumping a bullet, pfft.

Heyyy.... Is there any answer (ever) for why Gil lost his memories in the first place? He's such a different person with them, losing them caused plenty of grief, how did it come about?

All the same... I'm a little worried that series will be a letdown, even beyond the stark contrast between what I saw in Gil's character and /Gil's character/. It's not that I want a downer ending from this series, but the way things are suddenly swinging upwards... Leaves me behind. I kind of get the feeling that the characters get a boat load of problems and angst dumped on their backs, they fall down... And then the problems and conflicts just evaporate and they get up and keep walking. I dunno how accurate that is/will be, but that's kind of the sense I picking up now, and I don't like it. I want more conflict, more growth...

Well, well, well, I wouldn't agree that Gil lacks 'growth' in these last chapters but... I guess its too quick, not delved into enough, jumping from point A to point B with only flimsy excuses that don't carry me through.

Also, the world is breaking. Please, please, please don't suddenly give Alice (either of them) some barely legimate deus ex machina to just fix everything with minimum sacrifice.
Nov 22, 2012 10:45 PM
#5

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Really good chap :D
Glen is pissed XD
Loved Gil's smile and how he accepted Oz.

I smell sth fishy from the last page. Please let me be wrong.
Nov 22, 2012 11:00 PM
#6

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Sep 2012
3613
The way Gil cheered up Oz was so banal...
Nov 23, 2012 1:31 AM
#7

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Oscar will probably betray them.
Nov 23, 2012 7:35 AM
#8

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Feb 2010
440
ya, I have a bad feeling about Oscar. It would be great if he was like Gil and still accepted Oz after finding out the truth, but... I just don't feel like it will go down quite like that.
Nov 23, 2012 8:24 AM
#9
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33
Hehe, I find it amusing how Break's role in this chapter was to basically laugh at Lily xD

Interesting information about the Baskervilles contracting method and why Vince wasn't having any troubles juggling Demios and Doormouse. I was wondering it for a long time >.<

I have an overpowering feeling that Oscar appearing isn't a good thing :/ ... I hope i'm wrong, but it's seriously fishy. Maybe he'll lead them to Zai?
Nov 23, 2012 1:29 PM

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Nov 2011
19
If Uncle Oscar betrays them, there will be tears... Not that this series doesn't make it a habit to rip my soul apart whenever it has the chance.
I'm pretty sure the Gil/Oz ship rose back up after having sunk to the bottom of the ocean.
Will Alice ever be back?
If it's not in red, I won't believe it.
Nov 23, 2012 7:08 PM

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Mar 2012
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InfiniteDestiny said:
Nice to see that Gil accepts Oz whether he is a "fake" or not

Why do i feel like Oscar will betray them T_T


Looks like I'm not the only one... lol...

"Have you ever encounter a wild beast that guarantees to never bite anyone?" ~ Roronoa Zoro
Nov 24, 2012 6:50 AM

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No more to say.

ワンダーランド花 ♥

Nov 24, 2012 9:27 PM

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14
I very much doubt Oscar is an ally at this point.

Hell, you can actually see Zai in the background on the very page before they run into Oscar.
Nov 25, 2012 4:50 AM
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2
I hardly doubt oscar will betray oz and gill scince that is very predictable and everyone knows Jun isn't predictable.

Though these days this manga is getting sloppy. The plot is heading nowhere and the manga is coming to an ending faster than I previously anticipated. The basic plot used to revolved around alice retreving her memories and the pandora co-orporation, which as it seems, everyone has forgotten about. Moreover lately the "let-all-the-good-guys-turn-insane" plague has been going around and hardly any action has occured.I miss the action.I just miss it.

On another note, why do I get the feeling that very soon we will be presented with an unhappy cliffhanger ending no one will be satisfied with? I mean anyone who has read Crimson Shell (another manga by Jun) could understand where I'm going with this.The last five chapters of PH were extremely dissapointing. The beginning of this manga showed so much promise, but PH has officially gotten multiple plot disorder now. I reread the entire thing a couple days ago and reading the first few chapter was uncomfertable because I knew everything will get dismissed later on.

I hope this manga doesn't end in a terrible way.

Moving on to the real topic, the scene between Glen and Vince i don't even know how to comprehend it. The readers (most of them at least) spent so much time hating Vince and now that he instantly turned goody-goody...well I don't know about others but I'm having a hard time digesting that fact. Everyone thought he was the antagonist of the manga. Jun doesn't have any permanent antagonist.... or protagonist for that matter.

So who's the villan now? GLen? If thats the case I certainly don't think so. He's only trying to prevent a tragedy and save lives of hundreds of people. Who could blame him its his responsibility.( Besides its hard for us fangirls to not swoon over Leo's hotness.)

Is the villan now Jack? But he is just a ghost. The damage he did has already been done. Unless he gets his own body I don't think there's anything else he can do.

I think I'm done now. Although the original reason I joined the forum was to say: Where Is Alice? I Mean Seriously, Where The Hell Is She?
Nov 25, 2012 5:22 AM

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Jul 2012
45
I am really proud of Gilbert for everything he had done for Oz but still i cant help to feel a tinge of sadness for him :( Hopefully Gilbert and Oz could find a solution to solve this whole problem without having to sacrifice anyone... anymore... AND LASTLY Oscar better not do anything bad to them...if not i m going to kick his ass( in my dreams at least ;D)
Nov 25, 2012 12:01 PM

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The way Gil cheered Oz up seemed kinda weak to me... not to mention cliche. Although it was nice to see him smile like that when Oz persisted in calling him an idiot. Although I don't know why he would be happier having his memories, since he has so many more worries and burdens to carry around now.

@Lacie111
I think the 'bad guys turning good' thing is simply Jun's way of giving them depth. She just doesn't balance it very nicely. The same with her multiple plots. Poor balance. I wouldn't consider Vincent to be good now, we're just seeing another side to him. He's still a deeply flawed character. I never considered him to be the antagonist of the whole manga, I used to think that was the Baskervilles. Every villain doesn't have to be pure evil, just as every hero doesn't have to be a saint. I think the "villain" was supposed to be Jack all along, we as the audience just weren't aware of it. We now know that back in the first volume when Alice (or whoever) was choking Oz, screaming "I'll never forgive you", she was referring to Jack.
Also, Jack probably has a plan to regain his body, he mentioned something about it after he stabbed Leo. Although now that I think about it that had to do with the seal, which Oz doesn't have anymore since he rejected Alice.
And Alice returned to the abyss didn't she? Next to her sister who is suddenly completely sane.

Raemya said:
The title - of all the 'hmm' things in this chapter, why is it called "falling?" Seriously, other than the cover illustration of Oz falling into Gil's arm, I don't get it. Why? What, falling, as in falling action? Alright, I seriously doubt PH would break the 4th wall like that, but, still.

I thought about that too. It seems kinda ominous to me. The previous chapter is called "decision", referring to Gil, and now this one is "falling". Perhaps it's foreshadowing the consequences of Gil's decision. I mean, "falling" goes against the mood of this chapter and it makes it seem like everything is not working out as nicely as it seems. There's also Oscar to worry about, and though I don't think he'd betray Oz, it's still worrying.
The only positive connotation I can put on that is falling in love, which is...odd. And slightly hilarious.
SilverDemonNov 25, 2012 12:05 PM
Nov 25, 2012 12:32 PM

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Love the brother love ajd caring!!
Somethings are to be remembered some aren't ....
But his brother and Glen calling him an idiot also Oz too....
I think it was awesome that Gilbert acepted Oz as Oz by far best moement
Yay Break is ok wohoooooo!!!
Nov 26, 2012 7:29 AM
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@Lacie111

I don't think the plot is going downhill at all. In fact, I found the beginning chapters of Pandora Hearts tedious and a bit dull. The best of it started for me at about chapter 30 or so onwards and i'm still thoroughly enjoying it.
Alice's memories have not been 'forgotten about'; it has been revealed what really happened in like the last 12 chapters or so, and Alyss gave Alice back her memories when she met up with her in the Abyss. It's hardly a neglected plot-point.

I don't think Jun pushes you to like a character, and when you say that you had trouble digesting the fact that Vincent is now 'goody-goody', I would argue that he still isn't 'goody-goody'. The only thing/person that matters to him is Gilbert (which has remained consistent) so their exchange makes perfect sense in that light. It doesn't mean you now have to accept him as a protagonist, or even like him. There are still plenty of negative things he has done throughout the manga for him to earn a bit of hate xD

I think Jun is trying to prove with her characters that everything is not 'black and white'. Every character has different motives that the reader can choose to interpret as either bad or good. I don't really see a problem in having changing/multiple 'antagonists' within the story. There are too many stories with just one bad guy, this is more up for interpretation.

As for Alice...she's bonding with her sister in the Abyss of course ;P

Sorry for my rant xD
Dec 1, 2012 8:24 PM

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3864
Great chapter, Gilbert was the highlight once again. I can't wait until Break is free, I really want to see him in action.

5/5
Dec 3, 2012 10:09 AM

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I don't think Oscar will betray Oz that simply. Remember when he told them (Oz & Gil) he treat them like his sons. Oz lived with his uncle since he was kid, so I think he isn't going to do something like that. What about Ada? What will she do with Oz and with Zai? And where is Echo now? I just hope she will not be replaced by Zwei.


Ragna92 said:
Great chapter, Gilbert was the highlight once again. I can't wait until Break is free, I really want to see him in action.

5/5


Totally agree. Also, we need reim and Sharon in the next retrace ;')
Dec 16, 2012 4:54 PM
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Jun 2012
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So, I apologise for being withdrawn from the discussion lately, but I got caught up in the middle of moving houses and getting a new laptop and writing a review for another series and and.

Anyway, this will also have to be quick, it's getting late here. This chapter didn't really change the status quo much, just a few explanations and such. I suppose it was kind of to predictable, given what went on in the previous one, but still not very fun. I did find the thing about the rightful contracts funny, though.

As for where this is headed, I don't know, but I doubt it's for the happy ending exit. A quick review of the characters:

- Oz has already suffered a lot, and each time more. I do believe the ending will be half decent for him, it would be pointless to just kill him after all of this or something similar.
- Gil has already had his big sacrifice scene, he'll probably be fine from now on.
- Alice = ???
- Break's condition has been deteriorating ever since he lost his sight and he still has a standing promise to the Will. I think he will redeem his past and pay that promise in full, which probably means death.
- Vincent... is a death seeker of sorts. Mix that with the child of misfortune thing and I'd say his future is bleak.
- Echo is hard to guess, but I'm hoping she gives Noise a nice kick in the butt.
- Leo might just be drowned by Glen's soul. Or maybe not, but I don't think he'll be at the end of story party.
- Sharon will probably miss Break very dearly after he dies, but I don't see her having any significant roles from here on.

Now, if this sums up my feelings towards the future of these characters, it should be noted that there is an important wildcard lying around. Namely, the Vessalius house. Ada, Oscar and Zai had a nice chat. What did they conclude? What will they do? Will Oscar really turn on Oz? And, if so, will Ada be the counterbalance to that? Also, why in the world can't we see Zai's face??? I sure hope there's a tremendous explanation for all that hiding.

Lastly, about what Raemya said regarding Deus ex Alice. It might not be very satisfying, but it isn't implausible. The Will really is... the Will. So I wouldn't be surprised if she could do something over the top. Bear in mind that the last time around Glen's chains stopped the chains that held the world from falling apart, and I do believe her power is greater than that. On the other hand, there will probably be a cost for this. She did say she didn't want to be the Will anymore... Will she die? Will Alice die and the Will replace her? Wait, hasn't Alice been dead for a hundred years now anyway? Actually, isn't she the most lively zombie in manga history!?
Dec 26, 2012 4:32 AM
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calmarsi said:
@Lacie111

I don't think the plot is going downhill at all. In fact, I found the beginning chapters of Pandora Hearts tedious and a bit dull. The best of it started for me at about chapter 30 or so onwards and i'm still thoroughly enjoying it.
Alice's memories have not been 'forgotten about'; it has been revealed what really happened in like the last 12 chapters or so, and Alyss gave Alice back her memories when she met up with her in the Abyss. It's hardly a neglected plot-point.

I don't think Jun pushes you to like a character, and when you say that you had trouble digesting the fact that Vincent is now 'goody-goody', I would argue that he still isn't 'goody-goody'. The only thing/person that matters to him is Gilbert (which has remained consistent) so their exchange makes perfect sense in that light. It doesn't mean you now have to accept him as a protagonist, or even like him. There are still plenty of negative things he has done throughout the manga for him to earn a bit of hate xD

I think Jun is trying to prove with her characters that everything is not 'black and white'. Every character has different motives that the reader can choose to interpret as either bad or good. I don't really see a problem in having changing/multiple 'antagonists' within the story. There are too many stories with just one bad guy, this is more up for interpretation.

As for Alice...she's bonding with her sister in the Abyss of course ;P

Sorry for my rant xD


Yeah I'm sorry for my rant too. After reading the latest chapter I got seriously pissed. I don't even clearly know why though. Mostly, i think, is because I have to wait an entire month for the release of a chapter, and this one turned out to be highly dissapointing. I can't speak for everyone else but thats what I felt while reading it. PH is not the same manga I adored a year ago.

I'm not really complaining about characters not being completely black or white, people in real life aren't like that. But when half of the characters changed sides, I kind off guessed the other half would too.I love the PH characters *evidence: my username* but they have lost their previous touch (again I can't speak for everyone).

I will however stick to the end of the manga, it deserves that much praise. I am glad people still enjoy it and the popularity this manga has gotten is not wasted. But its just not my favourite cup of tea anymore. And those who love the new developements had the right to express their own likings and I respect that.

^.^ Cheers. And may the wait for the next chapters be shorter.
Nov 29, 2015 6:54 AM
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Jun 2015
3390
What a touching chapter.
Once again, Break is always right, lol.
Gilbert gave up his own arm because of what he did, and will still protect Oz at all costs. How sweet. I love loyal characters like him. They'd throw their lives away just to protect one person. Everything about Gilbert is amazing.
The same could be said about this manga and the other characters tbh.
The story, atmosphere and characters are simply breathtaking to say the least.
And that touching scene with Echo was also very nice. :)
Dec 5, 2015 6:11 AM

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Aug 2014
6589
Great chapter! I shed a tear during the Gil and Vince moment, I love their relationship at this point and both of them as characters ;_;
Sep 14, 2016 7:09 AM

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Sep 2014
2590
Gil should be even more awesome with a legit contract yaay! Was really cool how he just accepted Oz.
I should be happy to see Oscar shows up but don't think it will end well..
Dec 20, 2016 5:35 PM

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Jan 2016
1343
That seems like a really big wide open death flag to me
May 3, 2023 4:35 PM
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Sep 2019
734
Oh, hopefully Oscar didn't come to kill them. He's a good guy, but you never know, right...
TimeFliesAwayMay 3, 2023 4:48 PM

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