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Oct 3, 2012 2:25 PM
#1
Start Date: Saturday, October 6 Pace: 1 episode a day, but we will watch the first 2 episodes on day one. Since I already watched episode 1, I will post my first impressions. Episode 1 I have absolutely no idea where this series is headed, and I love that about it. My favorite aspect of the story so far was the main character's expectations of how his college life would be vs. how it actually turned out. Ozu being a bad influence on him tells me a lot about his character -- he is a follower and seems to give into peer pressure easily. And then at the end of the episode, we are left wondering if his decision to hang out with Ozu has got him killed(?)...what a cliffhanger! The outro sequence is amazing, and the artwork and character designs are very appealing to me. Kinda hard to pay attention to the visuals though when I am putting all my energy into reading the subtitles lol. |
DunkyOct 4, 2012 3:12 PM
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Oct 3, 2012 8:28 PM
#2
Episode 1 It's always great to come back to a series for your first rewatch (I do it rarely enough). The plot was more straight-forward than I remembered and the only problem with that first episode may be the slightly-too-fast talking and the fact that the main point of the show hasn't been introduced yet (it has to be this way, but still). I think that may lead some people to an early drop. Anyway, I had more time to focus on the visuals this time around and it was truly enjoyable. I really love the animation. The scene where he had to choose a club and the characters on the flyers all came to life, or how he turned into rectangle to show his tension when he met Akashi on that bridge. Or a lot of other small details that just fit perfectly. I'm also feeling very nostalgic about all the various elements of the story. The matchmaking god, Neko Ramen, the fortune teller (one of my favorite parts of the series) those plushies (Mochiguman), the Castella, 'Onion-Head Ozu' and so much more. I also still love both the OP and ED (the atmosphere of the ED is just great). So far I think it can live up to my 91% rating from over 2 years ago. e: Oh shit, the OP visuals just reminded me that the most hilarious character in this story only appears in the second half. I had almost forgotten about 'him' xD Episode 2 So by now you should know what kind of show this is. Timeloop, yay! I hate that my version has the OP and ED separated from the episodes so I get robbed of the fluid sequence at the end of each episode :( Gonna download another version just because of that right now xD Anyway, the movie circle arc introduced us to a new character named Jougasaki, who basically deserved what he got if I may say so. Ozu was devious as ever, I love how he's always lurking around everywhere being involved in everything. 'Did you raise your prices' manages to amuse everytime. Also his 'I immediately tipped my hat to this old woman's keen insight' after she flatters him a bit. Gotta love the sudden change in backgrounds and atmosphere. Anyway, I really don't remember much about the individual episodes from now on, except for the last ones and 1 more that comes towards the end, so looking forward to rewatching even more from now on ^^. |
AlcoholicideOct 3, 2012 8:58 PM
I probably regret this post by now. |
Oct 4, 2012 12:38 PM
#3
Episode 2 I'm not gonna rewatch the series, but an important aspect to note is everybody's character development. You gain more insight into each character as you see them in different situations. Should you judge a character based off their previous timeline? Which aspects of a character are their nature and which are their college-life development? |
Oct 6, 2012 1:35 PM
#4
Episode 2 Watashi's film was brilliant lol! What a guy, exposing the secrets of the other film director in such fashion =). I'm really starting to like Watashi's character. The fortune teller is one of my favorite parts as well. And you've gotta love the use of the line "That was my first contact with Ozu, as well as my worst contact." They used that one in the previous episode as well, along with some other important lines that were repeated. I think I see where this series is headed, some sort of timeloop thing going on here. I must see more! I guess what I'm really noticing about this show is that I find the narrative style of the main character commenting on his life a bit boring. Cleverly done, but also overly done. It's more of a summary of events rather than us being able to experience the events. Anytime I get to see real character interaction I perk up and am instantly drawn in, but whenever the main character's inner monologue begins I start to drift off. There is simply too much information to take during those segments for me to stay interested. On the other hand, when the actual narrator starts talking I am always intrigued, how strange... |
Oct 6, 2012 1:42 PM
#5
Well, I guess the narrative style is because it's a novel and I can definitely see the 'commenting on his life' part to be more interesting in a novel than it is in a visual medium. Only that way wonderful lines like 'That was my first contact with Ozu, as well as my worst contact.' can be heard again and again ^^. |
I probably regret this post by now. |
Oct 6, 2012 2:11 PM
#6
That would make sense, I can see how those parts would work better in a novel. Higashi_no_Kaze said: Haha, I guess you're right, some amazing lines do come from those segments, I shouldn't forget that.Only that way wonderful lines like 'That was my first contact with Ozu, as well as my worst contact.' can be heard again and again ^^. |
Oct 7, 2012 12:28 PM
#7
Episode 3 They sure talked a lot faster in this episode lol. I'm really starting to love this show so much that I am often times pausing and rewinding to catch what I missed. No matter what club Watashi picks, it appears that Ozu was destined to "befriend" him. There's so much mystery here! What is this opportunity that the fortune teller speaks of? So far the only hint I've seen given is that it might involve returning that little doll (mochiguman I think it was called) to Akashi. But that seems almost too obvious. I love Akashi's assessment of Watashi, that she took him for "a soul charred by idleness and wasted passion". And what an unexpected turn of events at the end. Ozu was the man in the trench coat, which means he was responsible for taking away Watashi's bike in the beginning. What a sly bastard he is. And stealing that Birdman machine for extra funding was also a very amusing development. Great episode, Watashi flying the machine at the end was the perfect finisher. |
Oct 7, 2012 10:32 PM
#8
I'll always wait so I can watch 2 or 3 episodes at once at least, but I wanted to let you know that I'm definitely still in. |
I probably regret this post by now. |
Oct 7, 2012 11:22 PM
#9
Oct 8, 2012 2:30 PM
#10
Episode 4 The visuals in this series are just too beautiful. The thing I liked most about this episode is that we got to know Higuchi a little better, I'm glad they had an episode focusing on him. It was a rather uneventful episode overall though (aside from that unexpected rock-paper-scissors duel at the end). |
Oct 9, 2012 6:31 PM
#11
Episode 3 I liked the quote at the end. 'Could Icarus have ridden the wind had he not tried to flap his wings so hard?' And I agree about Akashi's asessment. Generally I love this show for how much realtalk comes out of the MC's mouthes. Ozu and Akashi don't beat around the bush and Watashi just says everything that is on his mind too. That makes for a lot of great interaction and dialogue. As for Ozu being the one who stole the bikes, they actually hinted at it earlier in the episode when they showed his 'master' winning the bicycle race and he said in the interview something like 'I'm so thankful to be able to do this for my disciple who always supported me' - and we know who that disciple is. The Birdman-flying ending was great though, a perfect fit for this series. Episode 4 Well, you may call it uneventful but this is probably my favorite episode so far. First of all finally Higuchi and Hanuki were introduced with more details and Jougasaki was there to interact too - the 'cast' is more or less assembled. Plus there were just so many details in this episode that I loved. The masochistic proxy-proxy war, Higuchi singin his song (and generally Higuchi, how he pulled off wearing the pink-dyed Kimono xD)and of course Ozu's role in it even though he didn't have much of a role in this episode. It also had some character development with Watashi not joining a regular club and at some part admitting that he started having fun, which is very well constructed I think. I may just have to watch at least one more tonight :P Episode 5 This time he joined a cult called Honwaka xD I love how the cult is depicted and how it even took a while to identify it as such, great stuff. Plus of course the weird scene at the end in his apartment. Any thoughts on that? ^^ Episode 6 (as I go) I THINK I HEARD THE VOICE OF 'JOHNNY' BEFORE THE OP! Things are gonna get hilariously awesome from now on xD Things just got even better, seems this is the engrish episode. I remember this to be one of the episodes to make me laugh the most ever. Hanuki's pronounciation isn't that bad but I still find it too funny when she speaks *gg*. OZ News <3 Kaori-san is back! (She is the same doll that Jougasaki had in a previous episode, isn't she?). And Higuchi Keiko does sound suspicious in my mind. 'Her grammar is accurate. Where is the passion?' - Made me think of MAL arguments xD I love the drinking contest between Jougasaki and Watashi. Dat animation. There's the voice again! I almost had forgotten about it again. JOHNNY! You have to love the debate in his brain with 'Johnny' just riding in the background shouting 'Yeehaw!'. Also now that I rewatch it I have to think of the Nisemonogatari scene with the toothbrushes when I see that scene with Hanuki ^^. Nevermind Hanuki's weirdness, Watashi's decision still arises sympathy within me. So, I can't help it but this is still one of my favorite episodes ever. THIS is how you do awesome, creative and unique slice-of-life, Period. /fanboy Anyway, a lot will happen from now on so I think I'm saving the remaining episodes for another session. I'll hold myself back and stop now before it's too late xD. |
AlcoholicideOct 9, 2012 8:04 PM
I probably regret this post by now. |
Oct 10, 2012 3:29 PM
#12
Nice catch on that hint during the bicycle race, I didn't quite put the pieces together in time. Very interesting that episode 4 was your favorite up that point, because I found it to be my least favorite. Goes to show you how different our tastes actually are. That pink-dyed kimono was pretty slick though, I totally forget about that part. Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention that my favorite part in episode 4 was, as you just brought up, seeing Watashi not pick a club for the first time and having more fun with his life. This certainly adds another layer to the story, but the timing of the episode felt off. I would have expected an episode like this much later in the series. Episode 5 I really wanna meet that cowboy in the opening sequence, like extremely badly. So once again Watashi joins a club full of freaks, but this group (or cult rather) was particularly insane. I loved Watashi's idea to set a good example for children, "We could cross the street on a red light to teach them the concept of not blindly accepting the law without question." What's funny is the irony of statement actually, because all of the Softball Circle members were blindly following their leaders without questioning them. Yesss, back the Neko Ramen location in this episode, that was a very memorable part in episode 1, glad they revisited this place and had the owner play a part in the story. Nice episode, but I legitimately have no clue what happened at the end, I was hoping you knew lol. |
DunkyOct 10, 2012 7:16 PM
Oct 10, 2012 3:58 PM
#13
Hehe, of course I know about the scene at the end, I just wanted to know what your guesses were ^^. As for the timing issue, maybe you're thinking different after you see where episdoe 6+ go to. Though I agree that Episode 5 and 4 could have been swapped out, episode 5 seems a bit mis-timed in the concept. And glad you're also a fan of 'Johnny' (the cowboy). Soon-ish you'll see him in the series, look forward to it :P. |
AlcoholicideOct 10, 2012 6:07 PM
I probably regret this post by now. |
Oct 10, 2012 4:27 PM
#14
Oct 10, 2012 6:06 PM
#15
Oh wow, did I really write 'you're' there? *shamefully goes to edit* |
I probably regret this post by now. |
Oct 10, 2012 7:15 PM
#16
Haha, it happens. Episode 6 I love how they immediately threw us into Watashi's predicament of having to decide between three women. That is the mark of good writing right there. Damn, I can really relate to this main character sometimes. He would rather be silent than take the risk of being grammatically incorrect when speaking a foreign language. I'm the same way with my Japanese, if I'm not 100% sure of how to say something, I try to avoid saying it altogether. Certain other people just say whatever they feel while knowing that what they are saying isn't proper. His views on relationships aren't too different from mine either, he doesn't want to be tied down by a woman so he avoids those types of relationships. The main character living with a love-doll was too funny, and he justified it by saying that he has "extremely sophisticated taste". I believe it was the same doll that Jougasaki had. Ohhhhh my god!! The cowboy is his...Johnson!? It's goddamn brilliant. Once Johnny started talking I was like, "Wait, is this what I think it is? Is his manhood talking right now?" I'm still in shock. And when Watashi said, "Indeed my history is nothing but the history of my Johnny's suppression", I fell a lot more in love with this series. Every development after that was equally as amazing. I wouldn't mind a gum massage myself. For sure this has been my favorite episode yet. I'm looking forward to seeing more. |
Oct 11, 2012 6:35 PM
#17
Oct 12, 2012 8:38 PM
#18
Episode 7 Ohhh, I was wondering if they were going to go back to what happened in the previous episode, I'm glad they did because that was one of the most entertaining episodes yet. It was awesome to see a different angle to this story. Watashi's interaction with the doll and attraction to it was quite hilarious. For some reason I didn't find this episode particularly memorable, maybe because there was less character interaction in this one. You know what? For the first time I can confidently say that I know what to expect in the next episode or two. I'm sure they will do at least one more episode on this particular story, maybe even two. As for the final episodes...well I can't even begin to imagine what those will be like. Episode 8 Interesting that in this episode the main character actually picked an entirely different club, but it still had a similar outcome as when he picked the English Circle club. I noticed that Watashi said he was majoring in agricultural in this episode, while just a few episodes ago he said he was majoring in electrical engineering. These are some pretty big changes from timeloop to timeloop! Just as the last one did, this episode beautifully explained all the little bits of missing information and gave us a brand new perspective of the same story. I was very invested in this particular angle of the story. The mystery of who Watashi had been exchanging letters with kept eating away at me, just as it did the main character. I had a feeling that Akashi was somehow involved with writing the letters, but I certainly didn't expect Ozu to have started it as a prank, what a clever development. Yet again we see that Ozu has greatly interfered with Watashi's life. Nice episode. |
DunkyOct 12, 2012 10:29 PM
Oct 13, 2012 10:41 PM
#19
Episode 7 So, this was the Kaori outcome of the situation outlined in the previous episode (When he introduces the situation at the beginning I always have to laugh a bit ^^). It was a fun episode but I agree that it was not very memorable compared to most of the others. I'd say you're right about the lack of itneraction being the catalyst. As for the nest episode, it's pretty obvious it'll show the Keiko outcame, but what happens after that in what exact order I can't really remember with any details, except for one thing. I'll probably wacth the remaining 4 episodes in one session in one of the next 2 or 3 days. |
I probably regret this post by now. |
Oct 14, 2012 1:31 PM
#20
Oct 16, 2012 7:24 PM
#21
At last, I found time to finish it! So many powers preventing me from finishing this. Episode 9 Just about every supporting character and many of the side stories were all cleverly tied into this episode. So much happened that it's hard to remember it all. I loved all of the underhanded jobs of the Secret Society. The scene where they showed what Watashi wanted to do to stop them from stealing the doll versus what he actually did (ran away to not be associated with it) was perfect. What's funny is that I actually thought he was going to stand up to them and eventually become a leader-like figure in their secret society that way. But instead, Watashi obtaining leadership was all Ozu's doing. For some reason I was hoping that the main character would be a bit more devious in this episode, maybe because it would have been a nice change of pace. Oh well. This episode came to a wonderful conclusion, so I'm not disappointed with how it turned out. It doesn't matter what happens during Watashi's college life, I don't think he will ever be happy with the outcome. Not even a minute of my college life could compare to any of his adventures, and these are only his club experiences lol... Episode 10 They were really crafty with how they described the main character's room, that ideal 4.5 tatami room. I really liked the change in visual style this episode, and also the change in setting. Probably for these reasons alone episodes 10 and 11 were my favorite episodes of the series. I also preferred the pacing of episode 10; the slower pace allowed me to absorb more information and feel more involved with the story. Johnny's periodical appearances always put a smile on my face =) Oh yeah, and parallel universes of rooms of the different choices he made?! Well that explains his head popping in through a wall a few episodes back. You know, this is the start of what I expect to be an amazing conclusion. Watashi finally realizes how he lead an exciting life in each timeline, I'm glad the series took this direction. That thought was always in the back of my mind while watching. Episode 11 I just kind of sat back and enjoyed the ride for this final episode instead of commenting as I was watching. How very interesting that when looking at all of his different experiences, Watashi says that Ozu seemed to be his only real friend. This very thought even brought tears to his eyes, how touching. Overall a great conclusion. This tied back into episode 1 in such a beautiful way, I knew episode 1 was important and that it would be a big part of this final episode, but I was not expecting something as grand as this. So the opportunity dangling in front of him was predictably giving the doll back to Akashi, that was somewhat underwhelming. ------------------------------------------------------------- What a wonderful series, I had a great time watching this. I gave it an 8/10. I would have given it a higher rating if the ending could have somehow managed to give a completely different perspective to each storyline, but that never happened, and therefore I don't see this anime as having very much re-watch value. These were my overall impressions of The Tatami Galaxy: Pros - The dialogue, directing, and visual style couldn't have been any better. From a writing stand-point, I respect this series a lot. - A really good premise with just enough mystery to keep me hooked. - Lots of variety and originality in each episode. It used my favorite storytelling style of being episodic, but with an overarching plot. - Loads of interesting characters. Johnny was my personal favorite. Akashi needed more screen time though. Cons - Music works very well when it's there, but too often there is no background music at all. - Almost too fast-paced, not enough time for me to get involved in the story. I often felt disconnected from the story. - Occasionally comes off as nerdy, which is a first for any Yuasa Masaaki work. It didn't affect my opinion of it too much though, it's just sad to see Yuasa go in that direction in order to appeal to a larger fan-base. After finally finishing all of Yuasa's major works, I thought it would be interesting to see how my close friend's ratings of his major works compared to my own. They usually rate much more harshly than I do, so I was surprised to see that they rated most of Yuasa's works extremely highly, probably in the top 5% of everything they've seen. Except for Kemonozume of course, which isn't quite as solid as his other works. Pretty much every one of my friends gave The Tatami Galaxy a 9/10, so I was really shocked to find out that I'm the outlier. My close friends' order and average rating (from 8 different people):
My order and rating:
I can't wait for Yuasa's newest project to be complete, even though it's only going to be a short =( I'm curious, are you a big Yuasa Masaaki fan Higashi? And how would you rank them? |
DunkyOct 16, 2012 7:33 PM
Oct 17, 2012 8:49 PM
#22
Oct 18, 2012 6:37 AM
#23
Yeah, the specials were 'weird' to say the least xD How did you rate them? I rated them rather low because I didn't know what to make of them (It also took me 2 years to finish them because of subs etc..). I'm gonna finish my Rewatch as soon as possible, maybe today (at latest until the end of the week) and give you a lengthy reply then. |
I probably regret this post by now. |
Oct 18, 2012 10:37 AM
#24
Oct 21, 2012 11:01 AM
#25
Episode 8 I think you've misunderstood something. He says in the beginning of this arc that this time he did join multiple clubs and each of them was linked to one of his 'romantic interests'. They even showed him in the english conversation club this episode I think. He may have switched majors though, I didn't realize that. Interesting. For me this episode wasn't THAT exciting because I already knew Ozu was behind it all. Still a lot of entertaining details as always. Like the mentioning of the exposing video of Jougasaki that Watashi was part of in one of the loops. Or the 2000 Yen Surcharge from the fortuen teller xD Episode 9 Every episode reminds me of how much I love this show. Definitely not gonna downgrad the rating after this rewatch. This episode was especially rewarding because as you said a lot happened and I only remembered some parts of it. How this show depicts the human tendency to make themselves unhappy by always longing for what they don't have is just brilliant. They've covered all the (for Watashi) realistic widely 'accepted' approaches to happiness and showed how none of them satisfied him because of his nature. We had him trying to make friends, try and succeed in one particular activity, having the choice between multiple love interests, going for the money and nothing worked. The end when it is revealed Ozu had a girlfriend all the time was one of the strongest scenes I remember from my first watch. I felt like Watashi must have felt when he realized it. He thought Ozu was leading an aimless life and dragging him down so he has someone with a similar fate, but in fact it was more the other way round with Watashi using Ozu as an excuse while Ozu was actually having a purpose. Ouch. Next episode is brilliant too, I like the symbolism of shutting himself in his room. Not that far from a real, severe depression. Episode 10 Gotta love his talk about tatami rooms before the OP. It connects to the last episode, the title of the show, the OP/ED Animation and was genuinely interesting and funny. And the episode is barely 2 minutes in <3. /fanboymode The animation of him exploring and explaining the various areas in his room was awesome too. Ozu bringing him the Castella over 2 days before he got trapped (in every timeline I assume) could hint at him anticipating this. After all the Castella(s) fed him through it xD This was and still is my favorite episode probably. His internal struggle, the change of setting, tying all the episodes together. The bagpack full of money. The eaten Castella. The appearance from the wall. Him longing for the lives he doesn't remember and which he was unhappy with while living them. Just great and I also agree that it was very well-paced. And Johnny in the hamster wheel also always manages to make me smile ^^. A small but awesome addition to the 'cast'. Episode 11 "How very interesting that when looking at all of his different experiences, Watashi says that Ozu seemed to be his only real friend. This very thought even brought tears to his eyes, how touching." My thoughts exactly, it was great too see his usual phrase being turned into 'I'm sure if I had met him I would have led a gloriously fun campus life.'. I agree the tie-in with episode 1 was very well done and in general this is one of my favorite endings ever up until the very last scene when Watashi's and Ozu's roles suddenly are switched after his experiences. Did Ozu experience the same in some timeline(s)? Keeping in mind he also conveniently brought over the Castella and the cockroach spray at the right time. This definitely deserves the high score I gave it and I personal found it to have very much rewatch value, if only for the little details you quickly forget after a few months. _______________________________________________________________ I'm glad you enjoyed it, if not as much as I did. I really have to disagree with you on 2 points. Or rather the first is more of a question as I don't understand what you mean by 'nerdy' exactly and what 'direction' to appeal to a larger fanbase. I'd be interested in you elaborating on this. The second point is your criticism of the ending. It would not make sense to force each timeline to a good outcome for various reasons. This seemed not like real parallell universes but like a real timeloop thing where it's the same Watashi living each life (Episode 10 was set outside any known space-time continuum anyway so that doesn't have to make sense). There were regular hints that he remembered previous episodes, if only vaguely. So at the end of his journey, after breaking out the 'tatami galaxy' there would be only the then-active timeline and the others wouldn't exist anymore. The whole timeloop thing was meant highly symbolical and happened inside Watashi so to speak, so I couldn't see an ending work where the various timelines existed parallell to each other outside the weird space of ep 10. Of course this interpretation is not confirmed I believe, but there are hints and it's hard to deny that the story is meant symbolical and in that light the ending we got to see was the only one that made sense. If you need something to make a rewatch more exciting then let's assume the theory of Ozu knowing about the timeloops trying to 'help' Watashi in each timeline, just like Watashi does at the end of ep 11. So while I see that it would have been fun to include some new perspective or outcome to the old timeloops and that the opportunity being Akashi wasn't very spectacular, it was inevitable for the series and the most perfect fit for what it tried to accomplish. As for my rating, it is definitely up in my top 5% too. I gave it 91% but bumped it to 92% after this rewatch because I didn't expect to still love it so much. In fact I rated all the 4 other works a 7 (internal ranking would probably be Mind Game at 2nd after Tatami Galaxy with the other 2 having a tie for 3rd. My reasoning is like this: 1. Yuaasa's style, creativity and narrative methods work best for me with some underlying 'message' or something to identify with, if I get the feeling he really wanted to tell the audience something. Now I usually don't like that kind of symbolism (I hated FLCL because it tried way too hard), but Yuaasa does it so friggin' well and naturally and Tatami Galaxy is the culmination of this skill. And it had the clearest and still best-represented-by-animation idea/message which also happened to hit home with basically 100% accuracy. Mind Game is most similar in this aspect and therefore I enjoyed it the second most. Kemonozume had more of a purely romantic-tragedy kind of thing going on which didn't hit home for me and Kaiba, while very quirky, creative and interesting to watch, was just too much out there with what it tried to tell us. Too complicated and not as emotionally involving as the stuff in Tatami Galaxy and Mind Game. That being said I still admire all of his works for his creativity and could never give any of them something lower than a solid 7. So yeah, I'd call myself a fan xD. 2. This is related to the first point. Watashi might be one of my favorite MCs ever, I see so many sides of myself in him that it almost scares me sometimes. His overthinking goes along the same patterns as mine, his conclusions/solutions/excuses are similar and even how he reacts after each arc to cope reminds me of me. When the MC hits home like that the show as a whole is bound to treat a lot of topics that would quickly involve me emotionally and intellectually. As far as identification with an anime (character) goes, this takes the top spot for me by far. So I really can't help but fawn over this. I would do so even if it hadn't been that well executed given the facts, but it WAS and that just made it so much greater. |
I probably regret this post by now. |
Oct 21, 2012 2:18 PM
#26
Higashi_no_Kaze said: The end when it is revealed Ozu had a girlfriend all the time was one of the strongest scenes I remember from my first watch. I felt like Watashi must have felt when he realized it. He thought Ozu was leading an aimless life and dragging him down so he has someone with a similar fate, but in fact it was more the other way round with Watashi using Ozu as an excuse while Ozu was actually having a purpose. Ouch. Higashi_no_Kaze said: That's going to be hard to explain if you didn't immediately understand what I meant by it. A better way of putting it might be to call nerdiness "A unique type of immaturity found in characters' behavior and speech, and sometimes found in the presentation of material." One obvious example of this would Akashi's fear of moths, and how she overreacts when seeing them. Another example would be how when Ozu was first introduced, there were a bunch of arrows pointing to him, and on the other side of those arrows were silly descriptions of his personality. Just the use of arrows in general is pretty nerdy thing to do lol, wouldn't you agree? I know a couple of my friends dropped The Tatami Galaxy for this very reason, they found the characters to be too quirky and unrealistic, and the presentation to be a bit too silly. I generally try to avoid that style of anime, so it always stands out like a sore thumb when I see it. It wasn't too heavy in this series, but still, this felt like Yuasa's first attempt at reaching out to that large fan-base (where the largest fan-base exists), while also staying true to his roots of having an overall serious tone. I'm glad you enjoyed it, if not as much as I did. I really have to disagree with you on 2 points. Or rather the first is more of a question as I don't understand what you mean by 'nerdy' exactly and what 'direction' to appeal to a larger fanbase. I'd be interested in you elaborating on this. But really, "nerdy" a very subjective term, so everyone will have a different interpretation of it. Higashi_no_Kaze said: The second point is your criticism of the ending. Well, I wouldn't say I had any real criticisms of the ending, it did everything right (and my interpretation of it is almost identical to yours actually). But I guess what I'm trying to say is that the ending was very close to what I expected it to be, and that it didn't take enough risks for me to be super impressed by it. I felt that, in this anime more than in any other I've seen, the ending was absolutely crucial in getting right, the whole anime felt like it was centered around the ending. Endings generally don't affect my overall rating of a series, but in a rare case like this, the ending felt like the most important aspect. Higashi_no_Kaze said: Yuaasa's style, creativity and narrative methods work best for me with some underlying 'message' or something to identify with, if I get the feeling he really wanted to tell the audience something. Now I usually don't like that kind of symbolism (I hated FLCL because it tried way too hard), but Yuaasa does it so friggin' well and naturally and Tatami Galaxy is the culmination of this skill. And it had the clearest and still best-represented-by-animation idea/message which also happened to hit home with basically 100% accuracy. Mind Game is most similar in this aspect and therefore I enjoyed it the second most. Kemonozume had more of a purely romantic-tragedy kind of thing going on which didn't hit home for me and Kaiba, while very quirky, creative and interesting to watch, was just too much out there with what it tried to tell us. Too complicated and not as emotionally involving as the stuff in Tatami Galaxy and Mind Game. I find that all very interesting. What's funny is that for the same reasons that you liked his approach to The Tatami Galaxy, I disliked his approach. I much prefer when he takes a less story-driven approach, when it's more focused on adventure and bizarreness. Kaiba stands out to me as his best mainly because I found it to be the most emotionally-charged of his works, with Mind Game being somewhat of an emotional rollercoaster as well. Unlike you, I was completely emotionally detached from this series, it was more of an intellectual journey for me. But now I see why you rate it so highly. I also value any anime that can spark emotion as I believe it to be the single hardest thing to achieve in writing. |
DunkyOct 21, 2012 2:22 PM
Oct 21, 2012 7:21 PM
#27
Re: Nerdy - I guess I see what you mean. You made it sound so demeaning though that I thought maybe there was more than subjective impressions behind it. When you said it's sad he'd sink to this method I felt a bit offended because I'm actually quite the fan of such things and don't find them to be 'lesser' narrative methods. Of course it has to fit, like in SZS, but Tatami Galaxy and it's execution profited from it too. I think either you go all the way with the over-the-top execution, or you keep it simple and realistic - which obviously was never the intention of Tatami Galaxy. The emotions involved were realistic in their basics but beyond that it was, well, Yuaasa. 'Sillyness' is something else for me, sillyness isn't executed as purposefully as the shenanigans in Tatami Galaxy. And trust me that Watashi's ramblings and his character in general is not really that unrealistic at all *gg*. Re: Endings - I also felt this was all centered around the ending, but because of that I'm glad he didn't try to force some experimentation at the end, but just carefully led all the threads together in the cleanest way possible, not getting in over his head. It was what I expected it to be (+ the bonus of excellent execution) and I'm more than content with it. More often than not series have endings that are inferior to the one's I pictured in my mind. Generally I'm very rarely a fan of an ending for various reasons. 1. Many Anime endings are incomplete/open ended which always sucks, especially knowing that there is more material that just won't get adapted. Endings like this never make me like them. 2. Then we have the clichéd endings of the various genres with some variation. I won't start naming examples, but I guess you get an idea of what I mean here. Everything is perfect, all are happy, the end. 3. We also have the 'neutral' endings as I like to call them. They don't risk much, don't try to answer everything but also don't leave anything too important unanswered. Maybe kill off a few side characters so the MCs can survive while giving us the feel that something could have happened to him. The point is, they don't try to make the audience like them especially by pandering to it too much, but also doesn't try to alienate it by pulling off shocking developments. You could consider them boring/anticlimatic, but in some cases that reinforces the realism of a show. More often than not it's just a no risk no fun ending though that tried too hard not to ruin the series. 4. The 'bad' endings that try their best to shock the viewer. Often seem forced, badly paced and for no real purpose. Pandering to the other end of the fandom is what I call it. And I happen to find it quite easy to predict the ending type of most shows. I even regularly lose interest in shows after like 2/3's because the remaining developments are just laid out, maybe one twist more or less than similar ones, but still the same. So what I actually hope to get from an ending is just not to be disappointed too much by the predictability of it. And I don't mean predicting exact events, but things like 'okay, these are gonna be the matchups for the bossfights' or 'in the end they're gonna resolve their love triangles but no couples will be formed' etc... If the execution makes it worthwile I can somehow enjoy it, but the rare real good endings are either unexpectedly brilliant and creative (very rare), strongly emotional because of splendid execution (probably the easiest way to get me to like an ending) or they are just perfect because nothing else could have been the ending without declassing the show. Tatami Galaxy and LOGH are prime examples for that. LOGH HAD to end with his death Monster was a show for example where I was utterly disappointed by the ending. I know it should feel equally inevitable as I described above, but to me it just seemed stale and kind of close to dragging the whole show down to the level of pointlessness. Objectively there's not that much difference in those cases, just that Monster had 2 pre-written endings it could have pulled off (saving/killing Johan) and I just hated the choice they made for various reasons. But I think I've rambled on long enough over this, lol. Re: Yuaasa - Funny how you call Tatami Galaxy more story-driven than Kaiba. Wasn't Kaiba much more of a 'story' than Tatami Galaxy? You called it 'adventure' yourself, while Tatami Galaxy was basically just running in circles and had a total character-driven approach - is what I would say. Also when did you find the time to get emotionally attached to Kaiba? I felt that I had trouble keeping up with the story and the characters (the similar and changing designs didn't make it easy to even identify the cast properly ^^). I had to think a lot more about what was going on so I felt like the distance never really closed and I could just observe the series instead of 'live' it. Tatami Galaxy/Mind Game felt a lot more like Haruki's english conversations while Kaiba resembles Watashi in the english club ^^. At least that was my impression, maybe a Kaiba rewatch would give me more time to concentrate on the dialogue and character interactions and change my mind. |
I probably regret this post by now. |
Oct 21, 2012 7:42 PM
#28
Also here is he answering some questions from fans about his new project and his life and person in general. Very recent too, just got the link from the News subforums. http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/11u1vs/i_am_masaaki_yuasa_director_of_production_igs/ |
I probably regret this post by now. |
Oct 21, 2012 8:44 PM
#29
Yes, I suppose nerdiness is whatever you make of it, many love it and many hate it. Personally, I can't stand it. And the reason I say it's sad to see Yuasa go down that path is that I fear he may continue on that path, so I won't get nearly as much enjoyment out of his work, and I kind of feel that it goes against his natural style. Most people would probably welcome this change though. Endings are a strange subject, mainly because I usually don't put much of a focus on them. That's why I find it odd when somebody won't watch an anime solely because they already know how it's going to end, I don't see that as being important. I do the same thing you do though, I like to predict what type of ending an anime will have. And as you said, more often than not it will be obvious which way it's headed. I actually do find a lot of beauty in simplistic endings, like in Monster, but I'm not quite sure why I find them so appealing...I never thought about it before. I would definitely consider Tatami Galaxy more story-driven than Kaiba. Kaiba was focused mainly on exploring the world I felt, so the story felt secondary to me. Kaiba is a strange case though since the first half is all about world exploration, and the second half is where the meat of the story is, so it's a tough comparison to make. But you're right, it's probably best to call Tatami Galaxy a character-driven anime more than anything. Though, when comparing Tatami Galaxy to Yuasa's others works, I do feel that the story is most important in Tatami Galaxy. It's interesting, I've noticed that we get emotionally attached to very different things. I'm different in that I almost never become attached to a character's personality like you do, I primarily become emotionally invested in events that take place or in a character's actions. Through reading and watching many reviews, I have found that most people are more similar to you in that respect. Most people spend a large portion of their reviews analyzing each main character and each of their traits. When I first started reading reviews, I thought that people were being overly obsessive about characters, but I eventually came to the realization that I was the odd one, and that I don't pay much attention to the characters' personalities. I had to watch Kaiba 3 times to fully understand all of the character switching and confusing timelines lol. What I loved most about that show is that, even though I had about a list of 20 different questions after my first watch-through, every single one of my questions was answered by my third re-watch. That's the beauty of Kaiba in my opinion. Yes, it can be hard to follow at times, but the answers are always out there. |
DunkyOct 21, 2012 8:55 PM
Oct 21, 2012 9:28 PM
#30
If I'd watch something that I know the ending of depends on what kind of show it is. Obviously it doesn't really matter for episodic stuff like Bebop even if the great ending is spoiler. Not to mention slice-of-life harmless fun series. For romance/drama stuff it is a bit more relevant I'd say, but still of minor importance to me. When we're getting to shounen and seinen action adventures that are more or less plot-based, I would already have to think about it. I avoid reading the One Piece manga for example because it would drastically increase my enjoyment if I had to sit through the pacing of the TV series while knowing what will happen. I guess I'd tend to skip to other titles if I had read some massive spoilers about this that didn't seem like jibberish to me. As for stuff with a lot of mystery aspects and plot twists I would avoid it if I knew some essential spoilers. I like to compare it to rewatch value, some shows just have a higher one than others. The DTB series is a good example because Season 1 is awesome to rewatch with a lot of episodic world exploration, great side characters and amazing dialogue. I didn't care that I knew what will happen while rewatching it. rewatching the parts after that was a chore though up until the end. Originally I didn't feel that the second season was that much worse than the first. Of course I can't know for sure what's what in advance, but I know from experience that for shounen-ish adventure/action/whatever shows that aim towards some kind of showdown I lose interest 4-8 episodes before the ending in about 80% of the cases as soon as it becomes clear how the showdown will look like, what the circumstances and stakes will be, who will be involved, what will the stage be etc... If I knew the details of the showdown beforehand I would not really enjoy the show, I'd just feel impatient from ep 1 on. I can definitely agree though that for many shows it doesn't play that much of a role (read: When they're all gonna disappoint me it doesn't have that much relevance ^^). Genre is a factor that I can't ignore in this respect. Hm, maybe I would have enjoyed Kaiba more if I perceived it more as exploring-the-world. The twists and switched just made it seem to me like the story was supposed to be the main focus and selling point with the rest just being the setting that is as detailed as we know from Yuasa (I guess I wasn't completely wrong though considering your last paragraph. It seems like a weird hybrid-show.). Interesting observations about our differences in emotional attachment. I find it hard to separate between personality and character actions though, those are kind of 2 sides of the same coin. True, there is a difference between me loving Watashi for being how he is and me favoriting f.e. Ayase from Chihayafuru because many of her scenes made me emotionally very attached (Tears may have been cried throughout the one or other episode). I'm guessing the last one is closer to what you mean with 'character actions' (though the personality behind it all palys a crucial role as to how I perceive the action too). If that's the case, then I have to say that those kind of emotional attachments are also more intense for me and more focused on the situation/actions/words. Not much identification happening though, unlike with other of my favorites like Watashi. With those I rarely have those emotional outbursts from a specific scene, so I guess you could call it less intense, but they on the other hand can upgrade a show all on their own from something I'd be mildly interested in at best to something of utter enjoyment. Kyon sold me to Haruhi at a time when I would never have considered watching shows that are not classical action/mystery/adventure/psychological shounen or seinen. Cause no matter what they do or say, with a certain degree of identification everything will be enjoyable to watch. So I really couldn't say which of those I value more, though the Watashi-type is less common. |
I probably regret this post by now. |
Oct 21, 2012 11:23 PM
#31
Wow, that's really surprising. Of all the genres I would have suspected you to say that the ending would matter greatly in, a shounen action series would have been last guess. For those series I've always felt it's all about the journey and the presentation, and never about the outcome. I always know what's coming in Dragon Ball Z for instance, but damnit, it's always fun to watch it unfold. Heck, you can just read some of the episode titles in DBZ and know exactly what's going to happen in that episode: Frieza Defeated, Goku's Alive, Forfeit of Piccolo, Videl is Crushed, Pay To Win, Buu is Hatched, End of Earth, Earth Reborn, and so on lol. Funniest part is that the Japanese titles are 100 times more revealing. You're right though, genre is definitely a big factor. I suppose for mystery it's a given that spoilers would ruin things. I think you might enjoy Kaiba more if you know what's coming in advance. Basically if you understand that the first 6 episodes are all focused on world building, and that the last 6 episodes focus entirely on the main story, then you will more easily be able to get into it (it sure helped me get a clearer picture of what was going on, that's for sure). While admittedly the show is inconsistent, that did allow it to have great variety in its content. Higashi_no_Kaze said: I actually had that same thought while I was writing that paragraph. I do think they are directly related, and they kind of work off of each other as you were explaining, so I will need to be more specific. I'm not entirely sure myself what I meant by 'character actions' actually. If I were to think in terms of specifics, I would say I get emotionally involved in how characters respond to certain situations (still pretty vague, but maybe you understand what I mean here), and in how they present themselves physically. Basically, I don't really care for them as characters, I only care about what they do and how they do it. Damn, this is a lot harder to explain than I thought it would be. For you to truly understand what I mean, you would have understand how little I care about characters, which is not something I can properly convey. Sometimes they seem to me like nameless and faceless chess pieces being moved about, and all I care about is how they are moved and how they attack lol.I find it hard to separate between personality and character actions though, those are kind of 2 sides of the same coin. |
DunkyOct 21, 2012 11:47 PM
Oct 22, 2012 8:00 AM
#32
Hehe, I wouldn't really say the ending itself matters, but knowing what will happen makes the journey much more of a chore. I could never ever rewatch DBZ without taking my own life at the end because of how friggin little happens each episode. It's like you know what will happen and you watch it happen so slowly that it makes you cringe. It's hard to explain, but shounen do have the least rewatch value for me out of all genres. That being said, when I first watch a shounen the ending isn't important either. Many people hated on AnE because of the ending, I enjoyed the journey and didn't care much - it didn't influence my impression of the show. But rewatching would not work for me. And those poor characters, shame on you for caring so little about their lives, lol. I used to have a more story-orientated approach and taste, but quickly the same kinds of stories get old and predictable while characters became my main reason for if an anime is hit or miss for me. Characters for the win! |
I probably regret this post by now. |
Oct 22, 2012 8:28 AM
#33
On the other hand I may be lying because HxH is actually my favorite ongoing show at the moment and I have already watched the original and know what will happen. It will probably go further in the story, but still. I give up, I don't even understand myself and my preferances xD |
I probably regret this post by now. |
Oct 22, 2012 10:33 AM
#34
I do agree that shounen generally have low rewatch value, but maybe for different reasons. Very few people know this, but I actually base my ratings entirely around re-watch value, and it's not often that I rate a shounen highly. DBZ is one of those rare exceptions, I find it to be an incredible audio-visual experience. And I kinda like the slow pace, it's like everything is happening in real time! |
DunkyOct 22, 2012 10:42 AM
Oct 22, 2012 11:44 AM
#35
Real Time is a lot faster than DBZ xD. I remember dozens of episodes showing a 10 or 20 minute countdown in the Frieza arc. I have actually never rewatched it, but shounen (long running ones) are kinda made to be watched weekly for me. I couldn't marathon the latest One Piece arcs (they go on for so long and except for a couple of episodes not that much is happening), but I gulp down each episode on a weekly basis. And interesting to know that you base your ratings on rewatch value, I can definitely say that is not the case for me. Though if something happens to be greatly enjoyable the second time around I may bump the rating a little like with Tatami Galaxy or also Nodame Cantabile. But you hinted at it in your final thoughts on Tatami Galaxy now that I think of it. |
I probably regret this post by now. |
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