| the whole "we've been at peace too long" weirdness they've been sticking into anime since the 80s it's usually said by villains trying to take over japan and re-militarize, or by terrorists in the heath ledger joker vein who try to instigate widespread chaos, but sometimes even by man-on-the-street characters I've seen it dozens of times and it makes no sense how is peace deplorable? do they want war and oppression? what the hell is going on in japan for someone to even feel this way? I know they've only been modernized for 130-ish years now but they can't still be so backward at heart that they dream of barbarism and feudal lords making a comeback something this frequent suggests a real sentiment among the japanese running against peace but what do these lunatics mean?  |
XMGA030Sep 14, 1:58 AM
| I guess some people feel a lack of purpose in peacetime, whereas in wartime they find purpose in fighting for their homeland. |
No, this isn't my signature. |
| Japanese militarism originated during the Meiji Restoration period. They distorted the meaning of Bushido into blind loyalty to the Emperor and embarked on a militaristic path of constant foreign aggression and expansion, repeatedly gambling the nation's fate to launch wars. In the 1920s, they put forward the "Continental Policy," attempting to use the Korean Peninsula as a springboard to control Manchuria, then China, and even the entire Asia and the world. Thus, they initiated World War II. During the war, Japanese soldiers were indoctrinated with the fanatical ideology of "dying for the Emperor," and perished in the frenzy of war. The most typical example was the Kamikaze Special Attack Units. After World War II, the United States sheltered a large number of Japanese war criminals. For instance, the Emperor of Japan, the top war criminal, was spared. Another example is Shiro Ishii of the infamous Unit 731, who entered the U.S. Fort Detrick laboratory after the war—the same laboratory that is rumored to have created the COVID-19 virus. Post-war Japan still retained a large number of militarist remnants. Many war criminals who had not been brought to justice entered various walks of life. For example, Yasujirō Ozu, who once massacred Chinese civilians, transformed himself into a famous director after the war. Left-wing anti-war figures like Hayao Miyazaki are, after all, a minority. To this day, the Japanese government still denies its crimes of aggression against China. Every year, the Japanese Prime Minister sends offerings to the Yasukuni Shrine, which enshrines Class-A war criminals. Japan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs has spent a large amount of funds on propaganda in an attempt to whitewash its war crimes, yet it refuses to compensate the "comfort women," and no Japanese government has ever apologized for its crimes. They also tamper with textbooks, glorifying, covering up, or even directly deleting the war crimes they committed. Among the Japanese public, fewer and fewer people are aware of events like the Nanjing Massacre. There are numerous individuals who defend the war crimes and regard war criminals as heroes. They are not against war itself, but against being defeated in war. For example, not long ago, a Japanese parliamentarian openly advocated that they should "endure hardships to achieve their ambitions" (ironically, this is a Chinese idiom), with the intention of "defeating China" in the future. The militarism in their bones has never been completely eradicated; it is just that they dare not resist now under the suppression of the United States. |
| hey shinku, you could have tried explaining it without making a moral lecture out of it and I don't think that last part about the parliamentarian is evidence, those politicians are all mouthpieces for amurika which uses japan as a pawn in their aggressive "pivot to asia" schemes anyway, you only pointed out what the government there has done or said... this doesn't explain why anti-peace messages are in anime |
XMGA030Sep 14, 1:56 PM
| Japan is factually dependent on the USA, for their defence, which limits their own independence. If you have a more erratic US foreign policy, like the ongoing situation, that puts countries like Japan at risk. They may have to back down to a more bellicose China. They can only assert themselves, with the premise, the US will back them up, otherwise, they are going to have to listen to China. There are lots of good arguments to support remilitarization, if they are worried about in insincerity from the USA. XMGA030 said: I mean if peace is bought with certain concessions, it absolutely can be deplorable.how is peace deplorable? XMGA030 said: Only the decadent, assume conflict is beneath them. I know they've only been modernized for 130-ish years now but they can't still be so backward at heart that they dream of barbarism and feudal lords making a comeback |
| Now that you mention it, I'm curious about this as well. What comes to mind is the anime Rurouni Kenshin. It takes place not long after the beginning of the Meiji era. Many of the characters long for the (relatively) old days where warriors fought with honor...some wishing to normalize sword battles again. So it's possible that this sentiment is at least partially derived from Japan's violent past and swordsmen's spirit, so to speak. It also seems likely that some still bear resentment toward their defeat in World War II. Ah, heck, I might as well put your thread into an AI and see what it says: The trope of "peace making people weak" in Japanese anime and manga reflects a complex set of anxieties about national identity, masculinity, and social stagnation that have deep roots in Japanese history and post-war society. It is not a literal call for war but a metaphorical criticism of perceived societal ills, drawing on historical and cultural contrasts. Here's an explanation of this phenomenon: 1. The historical critique of the Heian period The Heian period (794–1185) is often seen as a historical precedent for the dangers of prolonged peace. A peaceful golden age: This era was a time of immense cultural and artistic refinement among the imperial court, leading to masterworks of art and literature. The price of peace: Despite the cultural achievements, the court became politically isolated, focused on courtly intrigues and aesthetic pursuits while neglecting military and economic affairs. Loss of power: This aristocratic detachment led to the erosion of imperial power and the rise of the samurai warrior class, who eventually took over in the Kamakura Shogunate. Modern parallel: The "peace makes people weak" trope mirrors this historical narrative. It warns that a society too focused on material comfort, art, or bureaucracy can become stagnant and unable to defend itself against internal or external threats. 2. Post-war anxieties about pacifism and national identity After World War II, Japan was legally forbidden from maintaining an offensive military force, and pacifism became a central pillar of its post-war identity. The trope critiques the perceived consequences of this absolute pacifism. Loss of spirit: Some cultural commentators argue that this pacifist identity, combined with decades of economic comfort, has dulled Japan's "warrior spirit" or sense of national purpose. The trope raises the question of whether this generation has grown soft and unready for hardship. Economic vs. ethical strength: The villains in these stories often contrast Japan's economic success with a perceived ethical or spiritual weakness. A comfortable, capitalist society is portrayed as having lost its moral compass, sacrificing tradition for a soulless consumer culture. Victim vs. actor narrative: The post-war pacifist narrative in Japan often emphasizes Japan as a victim of the atomic bombs, sometimes downplaying its own wartime aggression. The "peace makes people weak" trope can be interpreted as a reaction against this "victim narrative" and a push for a stronger, more assertive national identity. 3. The psychological craving for purpose and chaos The terrorist or "man-on-the-street" characters your friend mentioned often voice a more individual and anarchistic motivation, similar to the Heath Ledger Joker archetype. An antidote to boredom: For these characters, a long period of peace and order has resulted in a world without meaning or challenge. In their view, "peace" is a suffocating status quo that needs to be shattered to reveal a more "authentic" reality. The chaos-bringer: Like the Joker, these figures believe that the true nature of humanity is barbaric and that order is an illusion. They want to disrupt society to force people to face their inner darkness and raw survival instincts, believing that this will reveal their true selves. Internal vs. external threats: The sentiment is not a longing for a feudal system but a belief that humans need struggle and conflict to be their best. These characters often argue that an "inner peace" is not earned without overcoming personal or societal conflict. Summary: What the lunatics mean The "we've been at peace too long" sentiment is a narrative device that taps into anxieties about Japan's past and future. The characters expressing this idea are not necessarily dreaming of a feudal revival but are articulating specific fears and criticisms: National criticism: An alarmist critique that Japan's post-war pacifism has caused a loss of national strength and a decline in cultural integrity. Social critique: A concern that prolonged prosperity has created a weak, materialistic, and spiritually empty society. Psychological critique: A desire for a return to a more "authentic" state of struggle and chaos, which some characters believe is necessary for growth and purpose. |
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XMGA030 said: how is peace deplorable? It's not XMGA030 said: do they want war and oppression? Well no duh bad guys want war, war is profitable, war also distracts the general population, perfect for bad guys to take over and make a crap-tone of money while doing so XMGA030 said: what the hell is going on in japan for someone to even feel this way? They don't, writing a villain with said trope doesn't mean the author shares that point of view |
| There are different routes to take in explaining this sentiment. 1) The Japanese have a very strong Warrior Spirit and in their current pacified state they are unable to self-actualize. A return to traditional Japanese Warrior Culture would purify the Japanese soul and society and put them on the path towards spiritual ascendance. 2) They could be referring to being subjugated by Western forces. Being at "peace" could be a reference to being a slave to the jewish controlled western world. |
| Japan looks like a very peaceful and nice country to me. I wouldn't judge the whole nation based on a dozen of cartoons, and call *them* lunatics, haha. More seriously, the motif of war, regret and resentment appeared because of the nation's historical trauma, which isn't something you can just sweep away with imported pop culture fluff - so naturally, authors kept exploring it. It's not really just an "80s+ thing", more like a theme that keeps resurfacing in cycles. Why might it feel like an 80s+ trend? Maybe because by then, a lot of the children of the war had grown into their 30s-40s, matured enough to reflect more deeply on war's aftermath. Some authors leaned into melancholic regret (Takahata, Ishiguro - from what comes to my mind), while others tilted toward bitterness or resentment (Ibuse, Tezuka, Nakazawa - I have only very shallow knowledge of those, though). Ah, whatever, I'm getting too serious again, haha. |
| Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
| Honestly? That's not a phrase I've heard very often in anime. Though I have heard it a few times in some Japanese live-action movies. |
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